While it might get annoying in really large games (8 or so), in a game with 4 or so players it shouldn't be so bad, as you'd probably really look at the deck for a while the first time you hit, and then each other time, you already know what you're looking for.
I don't understand why you'd ever want to play an eight player game but... If you have a regular playgroup, you should have some knowledge of people's decks.
The real problem would be if you just durdled every time you searched. Then people might get mad at you.
I fail to see how Gris will be banned if Jin-Gitaxias isn't. Everyone is agreeing that the best play is cheating him into play, and he doesn't even win you the game. In terms of unanswered, cheated-into-play threats, I would argue Jin is above Gris, though they are close. Difference is Jin puts you at an insane advantage while putting everyone else at an insane disadvantage; Griselbrand does not do this. And jin-gitaxias is nowhere close to being banned.
Jin-Gitaxias only gives you cards once per turn, and you don't get a chance to play them. Theyre really not comparable, besides the fact that they both draw cards. Sure, Jin-Gitaxias is [i]much[i/] better in the long run, but there is no long run after Griselbrand resolves, because the game is now over. (Assuming that the deck is built correctly)
I'm not saying GB should be banned.
Yeah, Koku and black Mike would be a mean combo. So what? There are plenty of busted two-card combos around.
Is that a combo...? With a sac oulet, everyone loses ten, and you gain ~? For only 12 mana?
On the topic of cards that are only used as combo pieces, I've honestly [i]never[/i] seen Palinchron used as anything other than a combo enabler.
Also, I think Angelic Arbiter is exactly what you're looking for. It forces opponents to decide whether to attack or play spells, which can really slow down a lot of decks.
Enchantments: Magus of the Future is the best of them. He gives you crazy card advantage, and has powerful synergy with Sensei's Divining Top and shuffle effects. Magus of the Moat wrecks a lot of aggro strategies. Magus of the Moon is powerful if you run a lot of basics, but it's pretty mean. Magus of the Abyss is much weaker than his counterpart, but he's decent if you're playing tokens or recurring creatures. Magus of the Vineyard is bad. Some other guy playing this let me combo out and kill two people with Valakut on turn three.
Has Graveborn Muse actually been useful to you? It always came down too late to be helpful for me. Ambition's Cost is pretty similar, although it's better because it gives you cards immediately.
My meta allows proxies, but I think that it's just because the people who use them actually print out the image of the card, they don't just stick a piece of paper in and write the name.
I think that in a casual format people shouldn't need to proxy cards, but if they really want to, it is a casual format, so they should be allowed.
There are of course some exceptions. If a person proxied an entire (or most of a) deck, and then was obviously not trying to pick up any of the cards in it, I would be kind of annoyed, and I'd talk to them politely and ask them to stop.
Another thing that I don't really approve of, is the proxying of ridiculously high-value cards. If somebody is proxying Imperial Seals, Mishra's Workshops, Grim Tutors, and cards of a similar value, that would also be a bit annoying. Of course if the real cards were in the mail, and they were using the proxies as a placeholder, that would be better. Also if the person were playing with an alternate art proxy, or a proxied foil, I wouldn't mind as much.
For a little while at my store, there was a push for an EDH league. The league rules, were that everybody was allowed a max of 10 proxies per deck. Proxies for lands could be any value, but proxies of real cards had to be below $50. I thought that was pretty reasonable.
Proxies aren't entirely rampant in my meta, so that may be part of the reason that we're pretty lax about them.
@Slithermuse
Haven't tested it. I haven't found myself running out of cards because many of the creatures cantrip, but with Chrome Mox that could change. I'll test it.
@Glimpse of Nature
Haven't tried this out, but it seems like it might be useful. There is already a ton of digging, but meh.
@Serum Powder
I strongly dislike this card. Even in Vintage Dredge I don't like playing it. It's never functioned well for me. I'd much rather just play tutors.
@Fierce Empath
Yeah, should probably be playing one of these. Coming in.
@Spoils of the Vault
If Enlightened isn't enough I'll try this out, but I'm not enthusiastic.
I don't know if this is going to help at all but while back I was working on a Food Chain deck myself and this is what I came up with, maybe you can take the concept and incorporate the new critter in there;
The whole point is getting Scornful Egotist and Grozoth with Fierce Empath, With Grozoth getting all of the 9 CC creatures and then dropping them all with Myojin of Life's Web at the same time XD.
Interesting build, but it's completely different from what I'm going for.
Will post changes after I get to test a bit more. Thanks for the help so far guys!
I don't understand why you'd ever want to play an eight player game but... If you have a regular playgroup, you should have some knowledge of people's decks.
The real problem would be if you just durdled every time you searched. Then people might get mad at you.
Jin-Gitaxias only gives you cards once per turn, and you don't get a chance to play them. Theyre really not comparable, besides the fact that they both draw cards. Sure, Jin-Gitaxias is [i]much[i/] better in the long run, but there is no long run after Griselbrand resolves, because the game is now over. (Assuming that the deck is built correctly)
I'm not saying GB should be banned.
Is that a combo...? With a sac oulet, everyone loses ten, and you gain ~? For only 12 mana?
On the topic of cards that are only used as combo pieces, I've honestly [i]never[/i] seen Palinchron used as anything other than a combo enabler.
I highly doubt it would be too disruptive though.
Why yes, I have considered this before.
Also, I think Angelic Arbiter is exactly what you're looking for. It forces opponents to decide whether to attack or play spells, which can really slow down a lot of decks.
I think you're in the wrong forum. Delver wouldn't be very good for this deck.
Kederekt Leviathan is decent.
He is better than Abyss, because he can save himself, and because unlike his land, he forces "sacrifice."
Enchantments:
Magus of the Future is the best of them. He gives you crazy card advantage, and has powerful synergy with Sensei's Divining Top and shuffle effects. Magus of the Moat wrecks a lot of aggro strategies. Magus of the Moon is powerful if you run a lot of basics, but it's pretty mean. Magus of the Abyss is much weaker than his counterpart, but he's decent if you're playing tokens or recurring creatures. Magus of the Vineyard is bad. Some other guy playing this let me combo out and kill two people with Valakut on turn three.
Artifacts:
Magus of the Disk is a decent Wrath and can be abused with indestructibility. Magus of the Jar is a good d7 effect. Magus of the Candelabra is pretty good with all the crazy lands in this format. Magus of the Mirror isn't very good outside of a few very specific situations. Magus of the Scroll is just bad.
Lands:
Magus of the Coffers gives MBC even more ways to make big mana, and he comboes out with Sword of the Paruns and Umbral Mantle. Magus of the Bazaar gives you decent card filtering, and gets much better with any kind of recursion. Magus of the Library can be a great card draw engine. Magus of the Tabernacle has the same problem as Abyss, in that he kills himself, unlike the enchantment. He's much better though, because he kills tokens. Magus of the Arena is just meh.
1. Future
2. Moon
3. Coffers
4. Bazaar
5. Jar
6. Disk
7. Moat
8. Candelabra
9. Tabernacle
10. Library
11. Abyss
12. Mirror
13. Arena
14. Vineyard
15. Scroll
Has Graveborn Muse actually been useful to you? It always came down too late to be helpful for me. Ambition's Cost is pretty similar, although it's better because it gives you cards immediately.
I think that in a casual format people shouldn't need to proxy cards, but if they really want to, it is a casual format, so they should be allowed.
There are of course some exceptions. If a person proxied an entire (or most of a) deck, and then was obviously not trying to pick up any of the cards in it, I would be kind of annoyed, and I'd talk to them politely and ask them to stop.
Another thing that I don't really approve of, is the proxying of ridiculously high-value cards. If somebody is proxying Imperial Seals, Mishra's Workshops, Grim Tutors, and cards of a similar value, that would also be a bit annoying. Of course if the real cards were in the mail, and they were using the proxies as a placeholder, that would be better. Also if the person were playing with an alternate art proxy, or a proxied foil, I wouldn't mind as much.
For a little while at my store, there was a push for an EDH league. The league rules, were that everybody was allowed a max of 10 proxies per deck. Proxies for lands could be any value, but proxies of real cards had to be below $50. I thought that was pretty reasonable.
Proxies aren't entirely rampant in my meta, so that may be part of the reason that we're pretty lax about them.
2 colored mana isn't easy to get...
@Wall of Roots
The Impulse creatures and Mulldrifter are better for digging, and you shouldn't need to block. You want to combo out by turn 3.
@Misdirection and discard
Testing Misdirection right now.
@Primordial Sage
I wouldn't ever want to spend six mana on something that doesn't win me the game, and this just digs more.
@Mentor of the Meek
Food Chain mana can't be spent on abilities.
I think it would too, but there really isn't enough room for that much countermagic while keeping the combo consistent.
There isn't enough extra mana or color consistency to prevent spells from being countered. I'd rather be running straight countermagic.
You can delete your posts.
Again, thanks for the comments. Editing OP with the changes I've been using in testing.
Actually it often is. When Bruna is attacking, pretty much anything you can do to get rid of her is good.
Every Umbra card is another 'demise.' Umbra Mystic is amazing.
Fake Entomb is awesome.
@Xantid Swarm
Going into the board.
@Slithermuse
Haven't tested it. I haven't found myself running out of cards because many of the creatures cantrip, but with Chrome Mox that could change. I'll test it.
@Glimpse of Nature
Haven't tried this out, but it seems like it might be useful. There is already a ton of digging, but meh.
@Imperial Recruiter
IMO this is what makes any Food Chain deck function on a competitive level.
@Serum Powder
I strongly dislike this card. Even in Vintage Dredge I don't like playing it. It's never functioned well for me. I'd much rather just play tutors.
@Fierce Empath
Yeah, should probably be playing one of these. Coming in.
@Spoils of the Vault
If Enlightened isn't enough I'll try this out, but I'm not enthusiastic.
@Enlightened Tutor
I can normally get Food Chain after one mulligan, but maybe I'm just lucky. Coming in.
@Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Coming in.
Interesting build, but it's completely different from what I'm going for.
Will post changes after I get to test a bit more. Thanks for the help so far guys!