Im getting back into EDH after a LONG break and I was looking for some help and advice on a Relentless Rats EDH deck. Ive known a few people who have built mono black Relentless Rats EDH decks but I feel they are a bit weaker as they lack great value cards like Bloodbond March and Aluren. Here is what ive come up with so far:
Feel free to make any helpful suggestions. Dont worry about budget, I plan on adding a Bayou eventually, and I would like this deck to be as competitive as possible. I dont expect it to break the meta or always kill turn 0, but I am in a playgroup that typically doesnt pull any punches.
Hey Guys,
Ive taken a bit of a break from Magic for a while but now im back. As such ive updated my Mayael for Theros while I wait for Born of the Gods to be spoiled.
@Acardus
While this is a very new format to my meta, a game store in my area picked up the idea of the French List format so many more tournament reports will be coming in the future. However, the first tournament my gaming club (held on a college campus) had about 10 people playing in it and the deck held up pretty well (I will post a link to the deck lists from the tournament as soon as the website is up). I took 4th with my first list doing pretty well against heavy aggro decks (someone was playing tribal goblins Wort, Boggart Auntie) and other mid range decks. However my primary problem runs into heavy control decks. Their were 2 control decks (the best of which was a Nin, the Pain Artist deck) and he was running 20some counter spells and 15ish bounce spells so he was able to stall me ALL day. Im experimenting with hand-hate to hopefully improve my match up.
@3drinks
Thanks for catching the error. The correct card was Mind Shatter.
I will definitely consider dropping Bladewing the Risen. It was mostly a carry over from my multiplayer version of the list.
I will think about dropping Rakdos, Lord of Riots. While it does make my stuff cost less, often I am quickly dropping my hand anyway. Any suggestions as what to add in its place?
Blood Speaker's primary job is to grab Rakdos the Defiler. In almost every game I have played with this deck so far, if I get Rakdos off of Kaalia's trigger, I win the game. IMO with that, combined with the utility of the other demons in the deck (even with the limited number), Speaker is good enough to stay.
Buried Alive is in the deck for the potential to put something big in the grave and get it early game through the reanimate spells. Though, due to the limited number of tutor spells and reanimate spells in the deck, I have been toying with the idea of dropping the reanimate package (at least most of it) altogether.
Yeah, I know what your thinking, another Kaalia of the Vast deck in the forums. However I have started getting a playgroup together in my local meta to play using the French ban list and am looking for suggestions. I took 4th in our first tournament (out of 9) and with another tournament potentially taking place at a local gaming convention, I would like to make some improvements. This is the v2 of the deck, with the changes being made after running into INTENSE difficulty with control decks (one of which that was running 20+ counter spells)
@Monkmiroku
To be honest, I like the fact that it doesnt rely on combo. While the combo ability is still definitely a win condition, the fact that Kaalia can just as easily get an Iona on the field for free makes her good in a more round about way as opposed to a deck that is 100% combo.
@D3ad 2 R1ght5
When you play a deck like this, you have to understand that you are GOING to be hated on. However, they must deal with your stuff otherwise they cant win (especially with combo decks). The advantage is that you are playing the two BEST colors for creature tutoring and recursion. Which means you keep casting your hate cards and recur the ones that get taken out as many times as you need to. Or, if you cant, just move onto the next shut down card.
They way I look at it is not "they are going to just hate out my stuff" but instead "thats one less counter spell or removal spell that I have to deal with".
@bartmanqc
While Sisay could be "better" this is a build that is more focused on shutting down other combo decks. The advantage of running Teeg as your general is that you can potentialy resolve Teeg faster with him as your general than you can by casting Sisay and tutoring for him.
The main difference is that a Captain Sisay deck is more of a "good stuff" tool box deck, while Gaddock Teeg is a pure "shut down" deck. IMO taking this decklist, or even this style of deck, and putting Sisay as your general weakens the point of the deck and makes it run slower/less effectively. In a competitive setting, especially in my local meta, you NEED Teeg out turn 2 (or 1 if you can pull it off) to slow down the combo decks that are capable of winning that fast.
1x Crypt Ghast
1x Crypt Rats
1x Filth
1x Marrow-Gnawer
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Ogre Slumlord
1x Pack Rat
30x Relentless Rats
Artifact (6)
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Dragon Throne of Tarkir
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Thornbite Staff
1x Thrumming Stone
Enchantment (8)
1x Aluren
1x Bloodbond March
1x Concordant Crossroads
1x Cover of Darkness
1x Grave Pact
1x Mortal Combat
1x Necropotence
1x Cultivate
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Doubling Chant
1x Exsanguinate
1x Increasing Ambition
1x Living Death
1x Patriarch's Bidding
Instant (5)
1x Doom Blade
1x Go for the Throat
1x Golgari Charm
1x Putrefy
1x Songs of the Damned
Land (35)
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Command Tower
1x Crypt of Agadeem
1x Dakmor Salvage
4x Forest
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Marsh Flats
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reliquary Tower
13x Swamp
1x Swarmyard
1x Temple of the False God
1x Twilight Mire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Woodland Cemetery
Feel free to make any helpful suggestions. Dont worry about budget, I plan on adding a Bayou eventually, and I would like this deck to be as competitive as possible. I dont expect it to break the meta or always kill turn 0, but I am in a playgroup that typically doesnt pull any punches.
Ive taken a bit of a break from Magic for a while but now im back. As such ive updated my Mayael for Theros while I wait for Born of the Gods to be spoiled.
Check out the updates!
Im still not sold on getting rid of Blood Speaker (im going to keep testing him) but Gamble, Disciple of Bolas, and Scourge of Kher Ridges are all great suggestions that will be in the next version of the deck (coming soon)
@Acardus
While this is a very new format to my meta, a game store in my area picked up the idea of the French List format so many more tournament reports will be coming in the future. However, the first tournament my gaming club (held on a college campus) had about 10 people playing in it and the deck held up pretty well (I will post a link to the deck lists from the tournament as soon as the website is up). I took 4th with my first list doing pretty well against heavy aggro decks (someone was playing tribal goblins Wort, Boggart Auntie) and other mid range decks. However my primary problem runs into heavy control decks. Their were 2 control decks (the best of which was a Nin, the Pain Artist deck) and he was running 20some counter spells and 15ish bounce spells so he was able to stall me ALL day. Im experimenting with hand-hate to hopefully improve my match up.
Thanks for catching the error. The correct card was Mind Shatter.
I will definitely consider dropping Bladewing the Risen. It was mostly a carry over from my multiplayer version of the list.
I will think about dropping Rakdos, Lord of Riots. While it does make my stuff cost less, often I am quickly dropping my hand anyway. Any suggestions as what to add in its place?
Blood Speaker's primary job is to grab Rakdos the Defiler. In almost every game I have played with this deck so far, if I get Rakdos off of Kaalia's trigger, I win the game. IMO with that, combined with the utility of the other demons in the deck (even with the limited number), Speaker is good enough to stay.
Buried Alive is in the deck for the potential to put something big in the grave and get it early game through the reanimate spells. Though, due to the limited number of tutor spells and reanimate spells in the deck, I have been toying with the idea of dropping the reanimate package (at least most of it) altogether.
1x Angel of Despair
1x Aurelia, the Warleader
1x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1x Balefire Dragon
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Bladewing the Risen
1x Blinding Angel
1x Blood Speaker
1x Bloodgift Demon
1x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1x Grand Abolisher
1x Griselbrand
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Lord of the Void
1x Rakdos, Lord of Riots
1x Rakdos the Defiler
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
1x Yosei, the Morning Star
Planeswalker (2)
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Liliana of the Veil
Artifact (8)
1x Boros Signet
1x Chrome Mox
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mox Diamond
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Talisman of Indulgence
1x Animate Dead
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Sneak Attack
Sorcery (18)
1x Buried Alive
1x Castigate
1x Damnation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Distress
1x Dreadbore
1x Duress
1x Grim Tutor
1x Hymn to Tourach
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Mind Shatter
1x Night's Whisper
1x Rakdos's Return
1x Reanimate
1x Sign in Blood
1x Vindicate
1x Wrath of God
Instant (11)
1x Chaos Warp
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Entomb
1x Mortify
1x Oblation
1x Orim's Chant
1x Path to Exile
1x Silence
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Terminate
1x Tithe
1x Arid Mesa
1x Badlands
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Brass
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Command Tower
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Eiganjo Castle
1x Fetid Heath
1x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Flooded Strand
1x Godless Shrine
1x Graven Cairns
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x High Market
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Marsh Flats
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Plateau
1x Polluted Delta
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Scrubland
1x Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
3x Swamp
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Windswept Heath
Feel free to make any suggestions or ask me about my reasoning behind any of my card choices.
To be honest, I like the fact that it doesnt rely on combo. While the combo ability is still definitely a win condition, the fact that Kaalia can just as easily get an Iona on the field for free makes her good in a more round about way as opposed to a deck that is 100% combo.
So you would recommend adding Acidic Slime and Elvish Visionary as a potential win condition to compliment the Reveillark combo engine?
Removed -
Crop Rotation
Doubling Season
Leyline of Sanctity
Privileged Position
Glacial Chasm
Added -
Karmic Justice
Sigarda, Host of Herons
Sterling Grove
Time of Need
Forest
Also considering adding:
Wrath of God
Suppression Field
Rest in Peace
Relic of Progenitus
However we cannot count on Teeg being out 100% of the time.
So far I am planning on dropping Leyline of Sanctity and Doubling Season.
Though I need to drop two more cards, since I want to add Karmic Justice, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Sterling Grove, and Time of Need.
Suggestions on two more cards I could drop?
When you play a deck like this, you have to understand that you are GOING to be hated on. However, they must deal with your stuff otherwise they cant win (especially with combo decks). The advantage is that you are playing the two BEST colors for creature tutoring and recursion. Which means you keep casting your hate cards and recur the ones that get taken out as many times as you need to. Or, if you cant, just move onto the next shut down card.
They way I look at it is not "they are going to just hate out my stuff" but instead "thats one less counter spell or removal spell that I have to deal with".
While Sisay could be "better" this is a build that is more focused on shutting down other combo decks. The advantage of running Teeg as your general is that you can potentialy resolve Teeg faster with him as your general than you can by casting Sisay and tutoring for him.
The main difference is that a Captain Sisay deck is more of a "good stuff" tool box deck, while Gaddock Teeg is a pure "shut down" deck. IMO taking this decklist, or even this style of deck, and putting Sisay as your general weakens the point of the deck and makes it run slower/less effectively. In a competitive setting, especially in my local meta, you NEED Teeg out turn 2 (or 1 if you can pull it off) to slow down the combo decks that are capable of winning that fast.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=487336
Krond the Dawn-Clad
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=492712
Jhoira of the Ghitu
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=490151
Kaalia of the Vast
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=488691
Maralen of the Mornsong
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=487160
Thank you for all your hard work!