Hex Parasite would seem to be great against stuff like Tumble Magnet, Caravan Escort, and Planeswalkers. Plus, at 1 mana it comes out really quickly and it can be used to attack or defend, depending on when you blow away the counters.
Just off the top of my head, this allows you to
- Take out Tumble Magnet entirely turn 4 (the turn after they got it out!)
- Remove Infect counters from your own stuff
- Remove counters from Planeswalkers (negating the need to attack them in some cases, but also giving you a creature to then finish the Planeswalker off with!)
- Defend against Black Sun's Zenith if it didn't kill you outright
Basilisk Collar is sort of obviously useful for Lifelink and also because Deathtouch means that Crusader can't be killed by only one blocker, which is now a -1 for our opponent. Plus, at 1 mana to bring out and 2 to use, it is also fast. Even someone with Lashwrithe still dies if we defend with this. The only downside I see to it is that it is going away in October.
I would just suggest looking over Cellar Door's deck on page 5 of this thread. He nicely captures the logic of the aggressive version of this deck (his creature choice is really outstanding.)
Personally, I am torn between the aggro version with a ton of field and hand control and the infect "burn" version with a lot of stall and proliferate. In infect "burn" I like Ichor Rats (a Sorcery with a body) and Hand of the Praetors (+1/+1 boost, infect, 1 poison counter to player each time a creature spell with infect is cast), with Caress of Phyrexia, Tezzeret's Gambit, and Contagion Clasps for proliferate (and -1/-1 on a creature, too), and Tumble Magnets for stall.
It seems that one has a choice between proliferate or aggro, but it is not easy to combine them. The crossover creatures are obviously Skittles and Crusader plus Inkmoth Nexus lands. Crossover Sorcery includes some combination of Inquisition of Kozilek, Duress, and Despise, plus draw (proliferation build makes use of Tezzeret's Gambit, aggro uses Sign in Blood.) Crossover Instants are Go for the Throat and some -x/-x.
For other non-basic Lands, I like Verdant Catacombs because they thin the deck, which is really valuable, and Tectonic Edge is also quite handy against non-basic lands.
I think artifacts change for each deck. Proliferation makes good use of Contagion Clasp, Tumble Magnet and Ratchet Bomb. Aggro makes good use of Lashwrithe or various Swords (Sword of Vengeance, Sword of Body and Mind, Sword of Feast and Famine.) Phyrexian Revoker was a really good choice with Jace still in play, but now... I think there are probably more Artifact combinations to consider.
Virulent Wound is just not that helpful. Maybe against the random weenie rush.
Grim Affliction is a bit meh, as well, especially for 3 mana.
For little creatures, Ichorclaw Myr isn't a particularly good attacker (no one will block it) and it's a poor defender. Plague Stinger is better with Flying. Plague Myr is a nice idea and if it was a 1 mana, it would be awesome, but you're better off with some extra Swamps and a better infect monster like Necropede or Plague Stinger. In any case, with the infect "burn", I'm torn between Necropede and Plague Stinger. Nothing else is really viable.
I like your idea so much, I did a variant of it, based on what I have played against locally. I also redid my earlier deck to be more oriented towards proliferate and infect-on-cast.
Questions (note that "I don't have/can't afford a set of those at the moment" is a perfectly reasonable answer!):
Is Necropede primarily a defender?
Is Inkmoth your primary attacker turns 1-3?
Why Geth's Verdict? Wouldn't it make more sense to run something like 3 Dismember or Grasp of Darkness/3 GftT/3 Doom Blade, which allow you to target and still hit some "indestructible"? Geth's Verdict seems less useful in an infect deck, except that it avoids targeting.
Why Despise instead of Inquisition of Kozilek, which is more flexible if limited to '3 or less mana' cards?
How do you deal with decks like Mono Red which will burn you rather quickly? Is that when you side in Surgical Extraction?
Wouldn't it make more sense to run 3 Duress?
I take it the basic idea is to control/defend until you have what you want in place (Crusader and Skittles w/ at least one Lashwrithe), then swing.
Here's the problem I see: Tumble Magnet + Contagion Clasp is going to stall you into next week and you have no artifact removal or way to infect without direct attacks. In fact, any good stall deck is going to be a nightmare (trust me, Blue/White stall and deckout are both used in my locals, and even the mono Red and White weeny rush both use Tumble Magnets and other bits of stall.) You may have a way to deal with bigger monsters because of Lashwrithe, but if you can't swing and you can't block because you get tapped each turn, Lashwrithe is not helping you at all.
Of course, if no one is running that in your locals, then you're aces.
I recommend 2 Tectonic Edge, very helpful against stuff with non-basic lands that create trouble, especially if you hit them with Surgical Extraction afterwards!
Also, I would consider -1 Sign in Blood for +1 Tezzeret's Gambit.
I am torn between aggro and control. From reading this thread, it seems I should be thinking control>aggro for MBI, but I guess profilerate is also not the primary method, we need to swing to win.
I'm not happy with the Creature line-up. My thinking is this: Skittles, Phyrexian Crusader, Plague Stinger, and Inkmoth Nexus are my real attackers; Necropede is a defender; Ichor Rats are a Sorcery with a body; Hand of the Praetors is assistant effect love (1 infect per summoned creature, +1/+1 per Hand on the field).
1. I was using 3x Plague Myrs, but I didn't like them. Better an additional Swamp or two and add something else.
2. I have the Plague Stingers in, but with 4 Inkmoth Nexus, are they really just a waste? I was using this to combo with other 1B and Hand of the Praetors for infect on cast late game.
3. I didn't like Vatmother because I'm eating the poison, but then again, she is 4/5, so quite a wall for us, which we generally do not have.
4. I use Ichor Rats as a Sorcery with a body. I only care about the poison counter. Similar to Hand of the Praetors.
5. I love Hand of the Praetors because all three effects are amazing. If you can keep it on the field, this plus a casting creatures plus a little proliferate can win you a game without a single attack, especially with Ichor Rats. Maybe I should add 2 more Hand of the Praetors and just go 4?
6. Phyrexian Metamorph seems very interesting. Just an amazing response to some powerful or annoying creature or artifact, or a doubling of something you have out. This means, say, double Skittles or Hand of the Praetors or Lashwrithe! Really quite amazing.
Artifacts
It seems to me that Tumble Magnet/Ratchet Bomb/Contagion Clasp are all of a piece. Between your side and your main, run all three or don't use them at all. I love Ratchet with enough proliferation. For proliferation, I actually prefer Tezzeret's Gambit because I draw, and the cost is less than Clasp's proliferate. However, Tumble Magnet can really slow an opponent down, and with 1-2 Clasps out, the Tumble isn't going away.
Which brings me to Lashwrithe. Yes, awesome if you can swing. Not awesome if your opponent is running Tumble Magnet and Clasp too. Which some people in my locals play. Which makes me wonder about Whispersilk Cloak: No boost, but can't be targeted by Tumble Magnet or spells/abilities, and can't be blocked. Unblockable, untargetable Skittles or Crusader?
Instants
Pretty standard, except for the Mutagenic Growths. My thinking is MG + Inkmoth Nexus is rather nice in any situation. They are in place of the Lashwrithes I would run. Always a fun way to surprise on defense as well. And no mana cost. I could even run a Forest if I wanted to with the 4x Verdant Catacombs.
If I take them out, I'll likely run another Dismember or Grasp of Darkness.
Sorcery
Pretty standard control. The question is, if I restructure my creatures and instants, should I do more control? I was running 3x Duress, 3x Inquisition, 1x Despise, and 4x Surgical Extraction in my MB at first, which seemed great, but I did it by removing my draw cards, so I was top-decking by turn 4 quite often, even if I hurt my opponent with discard/Surgical. I felt I needed more creatures, and ones which were relatively cheap mana (3 or less) to maintain field presence.
Caress of Phyrexia is a late-game card meant to either put on those last 1-3 poison counters or get me a desperate, last-ditch draw. I could see running 3-4 against some decks which don't attack 'til late game, especially with Hand of the Praetors and Ichor Rats.
Sideboard
Fairly obvious, except the Phyrexian Obliterators. This is for Red and decks that want to hope to get aggro on me. Sure, you hit me for 6, but now you have to destroy 6 permanents. That usually also means lands. That, with my other removal should make your day unhappy.
The other thing that occurs to me is the amount of spells I use that eat life points. Should I be running some regenerative like Demon's Horn or does this just mean I am not building the right combination of cards? Maybe those Mutagenic Growths need to go and I need to do something else?
Swiftfoot Boots?
Hex Parasite would seem to be great against stuff like Tumble Magnet, Caravan Escort, and Planeswalkers. Plus, at 1 mana it comes out really quickly and it can be used to attack or defend, depending on when you blow away the counters.
Just off the top of my head, this allows you to
- Take out Tumble Magnet entirely turn 4 (the turn after they got it out!)
- Remove Infect counters from your own stuff
- Remove counters from Planeswalkers (negating the need to attack them in some cases, but also giving you a creature to then finish the Planeswalker off with!)
- Defend against Black Sun's Zenith if it didn't kill you outright
Basilisk Collar is sort of obviously useful for Lifelink and also because Deathtouch means that Crusader can't be killed by only one blocker, which is now a -1 for our opponent. Plus, at 1 mana to bring out and 2 to use, it is also fast. Even someone with Lashwrithe still dies if we defend with this. The only downside I see to it is that it is going away in October.
Personally, I am torn between the aggro version with a ton of field and hand control and the infect "burn" version with a lot of stall and proliferate. In infect "burn" I like Ichor Rats (a Sorcery with a body) and Hand of the Praetors (+1/+1 boost, infect, 1 poison counter to player each time a creature spell with infect is cast), with Caress of Phyrexia, Tezzeret's Gambit, and Contagion Clasps for proliferate (and -1/-1 on a creature, too), and Tumble Magnets for stall.
It seems that one has a choice between proliferate or aggro, but it is not easy to combine them. The crossover creatures are obviously Skittles and Crusader plus Inkmoth Nexus lands. Crossover Sorcery includes some combination of Inquisition of Kozilek, Duress, and Despise, plus draw (proliferation build makes use of Tezzeret's Gambit, aggro uses Sign in Blood.) Crossover Instants are Go for the Throat and some -x/-x.
For other non-basic Lands, I like Verdant Catacombs because they thin the deck, which is really valuable, and Tectonic Edge is also quite handy against non-basic lands.
I think artifacts change for each deck. Proliferation makes good use of Contagion Clasp, Tumble Magnet and Ratchet Bomb. Aggro makes good use of Lashwrithe or various Swords (Sword of Vengeance, Sword of Body and Mind, Sword of Feast and Famine.) Phyrexian Revoker was a really good choice with Jace still in play, but now... I think there are probably more Artifact combinations to consider.
Virulent Wound is just not that helpful. Maybe against the random weenie rush.
Grim Affliction is a bit meh, as well, especially for 3 mana.
For little creatures, Ichorclaw Myr isn't a particularly good attacker (no one will block it) and it's a poor defender. Plague Stinger is better with Flying. Plague Myr is a nice idea and if it was a 1 mana, it would be awesome, but you're better off with some extra Swamps and a better infect monster like Necropede or Plague Stinger. In any case, with the infect "burn", I'm torn between Necropede and Plague Stinger. Nothing else is really viable.
4x Ichor Rats
3x Necropede
4x Phyrexian Crusader
2x Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Instant (7)
1x Doom Blade
3x Go for the Throat
2x Dismember
Sorcery (10)
1x Caress of Phyrexia
2x Duress
1x Despise
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Tezzeret's Gambit
4x Inkmoth Nexus
13x Swamp
2x Tectonic Edge
4x Verdant Catacombs
Artifact (7)
3x Contagion Clasp
2x Tumble Magnet
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Doom Blade
1x Despise
3x Memoricide
2x Black Sun's Zenith
3x Surgical Extraction
4x Virulent Wound
4 Inkmoth Nexus
15 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures: 15
3 Plague Myr
1 Whispering Specter
4 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Spellskite
4 Lashwrithe
Spells: 18
2 Black Sun’s Zenith
1 Caress of Phyrexia
3 Go for the Throat
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Despise
1 Duress
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
2 Dismember
2 Geth's Verdict
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Doom Blade
2 Hex Parasite
3 Memoricide
3 Apostle's Blessing
Is Necropede primarily a defender?
Is Inkmoth your primary attacker turns 1-3?
Why Geth's Verdict? Wouldn't it make more sense to run something like 3 Dismember or Grasp of Darkness/3 GftT/3 Doom Blade, which allow you to target and still hit some "indestructible"? Geth's Verdict seems less useful in an infect deck, except that it avoids targeting.
Why Despise instead of Inquisition of Kozilek, which is more flexible if limited to '3 or less mana' cards?
How do you deal with decks like Mono Red which will burn you rather quickly? Is that when you side in Surgical Extraction?
Wouldn't it make more sense to run 3 Duress?
I take it the basic idea is to control/defend until you have what you want in place (Crusader and Skittles w/ at least one Lashwrithe), then swing.
Here's the problem I see: Tumble Magnet + Contagion Clasp is going to stall you into next week and you have no artifact removal or way to infect without direct attacks. In fact, any good stall deck is going to be a nightmare (trust me, Blue/White stall and deckout are both used in my locals, and even the mono Red and White weeny rush both use Tumble Magnets and other bits of stall.) You may have a way to deal with bigger monsters because of Lashwrithe, but if you can't swing and you can't block because you get tapped each turn, Lashwrithe is not helping you at all.
Of course, if no one is running that in your locals, then you're aces.
I recommend 2 Tectonic Edge, very helpful against stuff with non-basic lands that create trouble, especially if you hit them with Surgical Extraction afterwards!
Also, I would consider -1 Sign in Blood for +1 Tezzeret's Gambit.
Just some thoughts.
I am torn between aggro and control. From reading this thread, it seems I should be thinking control>aggro for MBI, but I guess profilerate is also not the primary method, we need to swing to win.
I'm not happy with the Creature line-up. My thinking is this: Skittles, Phyrexian Crusader, Plague Stinger, and Inkmoth Nexus are my real attackers; Necropede is a defender; Ichor Rats are a Sorcery with a body; Hand of the Praetors is assistant effect love (1 infect per summoned creature, +1/+1 per Hand on the field).
1. I was using 3x Plague Myrs, but I didn't like them. Better an additional Swamp or two and add something else.
2. I have the Plague Stingers in, but with 4 Inkmoth Nexus, are they really just a waste? I was using this to combo with other 1B and Hand of the Praetors for infect on cast late game.
3. I didn't like Vatmother because I'm eating the poison, but then again, she is 4/5, so quite a wall for us, which we generally do not have.
4. I use Ichor Rats as a Sorcery with a body. I only care about the poison counter. Similar to Hand of the Praetors.
5. I love Hand of the Praetors because all three effects are amazing. If you can keep it on the field, this plus a casting creatures plus a little proliferate can win you a game without a single attack, especially with Ichor Rats. Maybe I should add 2 more Hand of the Praetors and just go 4?
6. Phyrexian Metamorph seems very interesting. Just an amazing response to some powerful or annoying creature or artifact, or a doubling of something you have out. This means, say, double Skittles or Hand of the Praetors or Lashwrithe! Really quite amazing.
Artifacts
It seems to me that Tumble Magnet/Ratchet Bomb/Contagion Clasp are all of a piece. Between your side and your main, run all three or don't use them at all. I love Ratchet with enough proliferation. For proliferation, I actually prefer Tezzeret's Gambit because I draw, and the cost is less than Clasp's proliferate. However, Tumble Magnet can really slow an opponent down, and with 1-2 Clasps out, the Tumble isn't going away.
Which brings me to Lashwrithe. Yes, awesome if you can swing. Not awesome if your opponent is running Tumble Magnet and Clasp too. Which some people in my locals play. Which makes me wonder about Whispersilk Cloak: No boost, but can't be targeted by Tumble Magnet or spells/abilities, and can't be blocked. Unblockable, untargetable Skittles or Crusader?
Instants
Pretty standard, except for the Mutagenic Growths. My thinking is MG + Inkmoth Nexus is rather nice in any situation. They are in place of the Lashwrithes I would run. Always a fun way to surprise on defense as well. And no mana cost. I could even run a Forest if I wanted to with the 4x Verdant Catacombs.
If I take them out, I'll likely run another Dismember or Grasp of Darkness.
Sorcery
Pretty standard control. The question is, if I restructure my creatures and instants, should I do more control? I was running 3x Duress, 3x Inquisition, 1x Despise, and 4x Surgical Extraction in my MB at first, which seemed great, but I did it by removing my draw cards, so I was top-decking by turn 4 quite often, even if I hurt my opponent with discard/Surgical. I felt I needed more creatures, and ones which were relatively cheap mana (3 or less) to maintain field presence.
Caress of Phyrexia is a late-game card meant to either put on those last 1-3 poison counters or get me a desperate, last-ditch draw. I could see running 3-4 against some decks which don't attack 'til late game, especially with Hand of the Praetors and Ichor Rats.
Sideboard
Fairly obvious, except the Phyrexian Obliterators. This is for Red and decks that want to hope to get aggro on me. Sure, you hit me for 6, but now you have to destroy 6 permanents. That usually also means lands. That, with my other removal should make your day unhappy.
The other thing that occurs to me is the amount of spells I use that eat life points. Should I be running some regenerative like Demon's Horn or does this just mean I am not building the right combination of cards? Maybe those Mutagenic Growths need to go and I need to do something else?
All help greatly appreciated.
Ewww, That's Infected (61)
Creature (15)
2x Hand of the Praetors
2x Ichor Rats
2x Necropede
4x Phyrexian Crusader
3x Plague Stinger
2x Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Instant (9)
2x Doom Blade
2x Go for the Throat
1x Dismember
4x Mutagenic Growth
Sorcery (10)
1x Caress of Phyrexia
3x Duress
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Tezzeret's Gambit
Land (23)
4x Inkmoth Nexus
13x Swamp
2x Tectonic Edge
4x Verdant Catacombs
Artifact (4)
2x Contagion Clasp
2x Tumble Magnet
Sideboard (15)
3x Lashwrithe
2x Dismember
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Black Sun's Zenith
4x Surgical Extraction
2x Phyrexian Obliterator
Alts to Lashwrithe:
3x Sword of Vengeance
3x Whispersilk Cloak