Those styles of documents focused around fun will always be vague they want the big tent it is also why the actual focus of that document is on communication and interaction.
This is still the whims of a group of people and how those feelings differ from yours will not be fixed by better bullet points this format is exceedingly subjective as anyone paying attention will have figured out.
As someone on the other side of most of those arguments I am happy for you because I never really saw the card so this freeing PS in price of Iona is a win for me.
Xiahou Dun is very pleased.
Also kinda want to make Upheaval Eggs with Wash Out but may let this cool first.
But when you are not going to have fun anyway, may as well make sure everyone at your table is not having fun.
This is just an unfortunate thread.
Let me ask you something. Are these people actively trying to make sure you're not having fun? Or are they just playing a different sort of game than you're used to?
I dunno, would one opponent playing Horobi, Death's wail and Cauldron of souls but only removing your board count as actively not letting me have fun. Even though i am behind on lands, no mana rocks (Because they blew them up), lowest life, and while I do have Mirari's wake out, it is not helping much, as it is just allowing me to cast the empty hand i have. So i have two dragons out for defense, yet he decides to blow them up so the guy with an Aurelia, the warleader and gisela, blade of goldnight can easily attack me freely. Then about half an hour later the game ended.
This sounds like something that your choice of deck can not solve.
Well in a more casual group it is actually a very powerful deck. Sadly i have been paired with less fun player the past couple weeks.
i am gonna go with Breakfast hulk, it seems easy to pilot and I have most of eth cards already (About 70%) so while i will not be able to buy a timetwister, i should still be abe to get most of it, and maybe throw a budget option in (Like Echo of Eons)
What I meant was nothing to do with the deck they are playing or the one you plan on playing.
But when you are not going to have fun anyway, may as well make sure everyone at your table is not having fun.
This is just an unfortunate thread.
Let me ask you something. Are these people actively trying to make sure you're not having fun? Or are they just playing a different sort of game than you're used to?
I dunno, would one opponent playing Horobi, Death's wail and Cauldron of souls but only removing your board count as actively not letting me have fun. Even though i am behind on lands, no mana rocks (Because they blew them up), lowest life, and while I do have Mirari's wake out, it is not helping much, as it is just allowing me to cast the empty hand i have. So i have two dragons out for defense, yet he decides to blow them up so the guy with an Aurelia, the warleader and gisela, blade of goldnight can easily attack me freely. Then about half an hour later the game ended.
This sounds like something that your choice of deck can not solve.
The fact that people have to get taken out quickly and directly and that leads to a length of time that is too long that they are out of the game is a consequence of the higher life totals currently in the format is it not?
(I don't personally have a problem getting knocked out of a game early because in the format as it stands if an aggro person is splitting their time between people it usually goes very poorly for them)
I can't see a single change to the rules ever bringing down this format outside of some of the truly sweeping bans that some people want for certain types of cards. This format feels rather flexible and at least where I play it the people I play with are too.
Also I would question utilizing any current breakdowns to try and infer what happens due to this change because the amount of Edgar decks probably stems from the fact that Edgar is a deadly efficient way to make aggro work in the current environment of commander, and while Edgar will still be very good if the life totals are lessened I would imagine people would also come to those games packing more answers for that same reason.
While I do not doubt there will also be people who only look at this change as numerical, I bet that number is smaller.
3) Changing life totals will NOT make a meaningful difference in the propensity to use combo decks. Yes, higher life totals leads to longer games, which was part of the point of the format (5 players 200 life means 40 each). Longer games (compared to 60 card duels) is also the appeal of the format. It is why EDH/Commander is home to so many cards which are staples now used to spend years buried inside cardboard long boxes of bulk jank. However, the reason players use combos is not ONLY because of the high life totals. Combos are used in 20 life duels, which is literally the most aggro-friendly environment there could possible be, at least in terms of the life total argument. Players are not choosing to use combo is 20 life 60x4 magic because the life totals are too high. Players have chosen combo in Modern where fast tutors do not exist, and of the best combo decks of their day, only KCI used fast mana rocks like Mox Opal, which is doesn't seem to be in any danger of being placed on the ban list. So, it is not the fast mana or the fast tutors which cause players to chose combo either. Well then, what could it be that causes players to choose combo over other decks, when you don't have fast tutors and don't have/need the fast mana, and you only need to kill one player who is at 20 life? maybe... just maybe, it is because combo is resilient and often times fun to pull off (unless it is eggs. I have found that most eggs players hate eggs).
Furthermore, according to every resources I have found, even 20 life duel Commander still tends to favor combo/control match-ups at the top tables more than anything else. Players tend to play the back-and-forth blue battle to dig through their decks, exchange counterspells and try to power out a combo far more than they are to just beat down an opponent. Now, if you have contradictory evidence, then please be polite and share it rather than be a troll and tell me that I am an idiot for not knowing better. I tried to look up the raw numbers from mtgTop8, Channel Fireball's article on competitive duel commander, and the forums and posting talking about the top decks and that is the conclusion that I have come to.
So how do games of 1v1 EDH play out? What can you expect from a typical game? For the most part, 1v1 games play out like a slug-fest between counterspells and attrition. Both players engage in a tug-of-war of resources, land drops, and value. (snip) Typical control games aside, you can also encounter fast combo decks. Usually, these combo decks will also employ counterspells and removal to back up their combos and engines, so be prepared. You will rarely see many glass cannon combo, and more of a combo/control fusion.
As a result, I yet again see evidence that reducing the life total to 30 and even 20 has no demonstrable change in the play pattern and propensity to choose aggro decks more over combo.
This post all in all was great and I enjoyed reading it however, what I would say as someone does desire for a lower life total is the goal is never to make people not want to play Combo decks or do I think that changing this total will stop people from doing said thing I play 90% combo decks, and when I play formats like Canadian Highlander I play about 50/50 combo tempo decks, and I think that is a format which is probably closer to the mark than trying to compared Commander to Modern or some other 60 card 4 of a kind style of game. However maybe this also is not a good comparison because highlander points lists make you make a choice early about whether you want to run the tutors or the fast mana.
There are plenty of aggro decks and tempo decks and control decks and aggro decks and combo decks of all varieties and doesn't seem like the combo decks are always taking the wins.
Lowering the life total especially in a game with 4 people seems so relevant just on how many new considerations people have to make and how long they can afford to wait or not if they are deciding to play a combo deck. I also realize this doesn't really stop someone from just jamming their favorite combo into a control deck already designed to deal with all forms of other decks, but I don't really know a good way to change that math.
40 is just too much of a cushion, and as much I would like to wave a wand and make everyone's decks more interactive I also can not do that.
My problem with designating a card a card or cards into that is Commander and EDH is a place full of trickle down cards.
If you are gonna tell me that Ad Nauseam is a card that only sees play within a competitive environment I am gonna call you a liar as one example. People see mechanics and decks and synergies that work well in all kinds of decks and the parts of them they like or are affordable are re-purposed into decks they have made that sacrifice the speed of being tuned for some good hay maker all in strategies.
It is why it is dangerous to ascribe any card to any specific place alone because these formats are not vacuums.
I for one don't think that a change to a lower life total would impact the things you are talking about, because a balanced increase of aggro leads to people also running more responses to said aggro so the control decks and the combo decks both wanting to survive in early portions of the game becomes a real thing. This also allows for a meta that plays mostly in battlecruiser and similar configurations to play largely the same game sure the things that generally happened in those games would happen sooner but the amount of give and take would not be lessened I do not think.
I was more wondering about reasons people like 40 life outside of those, because as it stands right now the reasons to keep the life total where it is seem minimal.
*so yes, I was wrong earlier about rhys being the 2nd most expensive modern legend
As you can see, it's a much tighter pack, especially at the bottom. Idk wtf is going on with sliver prices, though. I mean seriously.
New ones got spoiled and in the background they jumped a bit as it looked like someone with some information bought them out like a month earlier and with the spoiler they all basically doubled in price.
This is still the whims of a group of people and how those feelings differ from yours will not be fixed by better bullet points this format is exceedingly subjective as anyone paying attention will have figured out.
Xiahou Dun is very pleased.
Also kinda want to make Upheaval Eggs with Wash Out but may let this cool first.
The Forum is down, and the Engine is Dead.
Well then.
What I meant was nothing to do with the deck they are playing or the one you plan on playing.
This sounds like something that your choice of deck can not solve.
(I don't personally have a problem getting knocked out of a game early because in the format as it stands if an aggro person is splitting their time between people it usually goes very poorly for them)
The last truly dumb thing I did with the Vat was Coretapper and Magistrate's Scepter
Also I would question utilizing any current breakdowns to try and infer what happens due to this change because the amount of Edgar decks probably stems from the fact that Edgar is a deadly efficient way to make aggro work in the current environment of commander, and while Edgar will still be very good if the life totals are lessened I would imagine people would also come to those games packing more answers for that same reason.
While I do not doubt there will also be people who only look at this change as numerical, I bet that number is smaller.
This post all in all was great and I enjoyed reading it however, what I would say as someone does desire for a lower life total is the goal is never to make people not want to play Combo decks or do I think that changing this total will stop people from doing said thing I play 90% combo decks, and when I play formats like Canadian Highlander I play about 50/50 combo tempo decks, and I think that is a format which is probably closer to the mark than trying to compared Commander to Modern or some other 60 card 4 of a kind style of game. However maybe this also is not a good comparison because highlander points lists make you make a choice early about whether you want to run the tutors or the fast mana.
There are plenty of aggro decks and tempo decks and control decks and aggro decks and combo decks of all varieties and doesn't seem like the combo decks are always taking the wins.
Lowering the life total especially in a game with 4 people seems so relevant just on how many new considerations people have to make and how long they can afford to wait or not if they are deciding to play a combo deck. I also realize this doesn't really stop someone from just jamming their favorite combo into a control deck already designed to deal with all forms of other decks, but I don't really know a good way to change that math.
40 is just too much of a cushion, and as much I would like to wave a wand and make everyone's decks more interactive I also can not do that.
If you are gonna tell me that Ad Nauseam is a card that only sees play within a competitive environment I am gonna call you a liar as one example. People see mechanics and decks and synergies that work well in all kinds of decks and the parts of them they like or are affordable are re-purposed into decks they have made that sacrifice the speed of being tuned for some good hay maker all in strategies.
It is why it is dangerous to ascribe any card to any specific place alone because these formats are not vacuums.
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I for one don't think that a change to a lower life total would impact the things you are talking about, because a balanced increase of aggro leads to people also running more responses to said aggro so the control decks and the combo decks both wanting to survive in early portions of the game becomes a real thing. This also allows for a meta that plays mostly in battlecruiser and similar configurations to play largely the same game sure the things that generally happened in those games would happen sooner but the amount of give and take would not be lessened I do not think.
I was more wondering about reasons people like 40 life outside of those, because as it stands right now the reasons to keep the life total where it is seem minimal.
New ones got spoiled and in the background they jumped a bit as it looked like someone with some information bought them out like a month earlier and with the spoiler they all basically doubled in price.