What about the creation of more cards like spirit loop and rancor, or something creative that achieves the effect of mitigating 2 for 1s? Maybe more "when this enchantment leaves play" abilities. Bestow tried, but I don't think they got the numbers right on it.
Another option would be to enchant permanent instead of creature if creature removal really is the main issue here.
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- Drizzle
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What I was surprised about is the amount of cards you can still manage to stick into this deck that makes it your own. For instance, I have a sac theme with sheoldred, skull clamp, grave pact, recurring Skelton and a few others.
What I wanted to put on people's minds if they have the space is primordial hydra. This card is a ticking time bomb in this deck and is medium good at all points in the game (though I do have cabal coffers and vorinclex to help late game). It's a hidden mvp. The guy that comes off the bench and puts in work every game. It basically wins you the game in a turn or two for a semi low mana and very low card commitment, or it draws removal for again, a very low card commitment that does t ruin any of the other combos.
The bad part is that it has to be hard cast and can't be recorded effectively.
I guess that is pretty cool. Any idea why it helps me to draw cards?
I made a standard deck once and was bored the next day. Not enough cards to try in the deck, and not enough cards to choose from in the pool.
I'd argue there is no other game on earth that hits the creative and strategic combo along with the excitement that EDH does.
For EDH, what do you prefer? I prefer read the bones myself as I can filter out junk that I don't need before drawing, especially in a format that has to dig through 99 cards. Card quantity != car quality.
However, this card has never caught on like I thought it would and am wondering why. Sign in bloods ability to target other players is mostly irrelevant due to multiple players and high health pools, and ancient craving seems a bit mediocre at it's cmc.
One thing I keep in for fun is hatred. It's just too easy to finish someone off when it's you alone with someone, especially when youve had incremental lifegain all game. That, or you can buff someone else unwillingly to finish someone else off
The only thing I strongly disagree with is the exclusion of Knight of the white orchid, especially in a deck without coffers. Imo this effect and cmc is too good, especially when you are behind. Remember, it grabs scrubland and the shock land. Land ramp literally does not get cheaper in W/B. This is a different role than weathered wayfarer and expedition map land tutor imo as well. The only time it's bad is when you go first and you haven't missed a land.
Here are some things I don't see mentioned in your main post that might open up new ideas:
Identity crisis - I hate that I can put this card in more decks. Insane hand and grave hate.
Diabolic intent - Low cost tutor offset even more due to the sac theme.
Sidisi, Undead Vizier - An easier to hard-cast rune-scarred demon offset by the sac theme.
Unburial rites - Slow, but the flashback is nice.
Necrotic sliver - Slow but recurrable with Sun titan.
Knight of the white orchid - Rare useful and reccurable ramp outside of green.
Hatred - A way to end the game outside of a combo. Perfect for a deck with decent life gain.
Aura of silence - More of a meta pick but reccurable with Sun titan.
Debtors' knell - If your deck can afford the high cmc it's a very flavorful w/b card.
Ranger of eos package - Perfect for this deck as all three of the targets are good. Stoneforge mystic for skullclamp, Weathered wayfarer and serra ascendant are the other usuals, among other possibilities like Viscera Seer.
I've been struggling to find an identity for my W/B cards that aren't in any of my other EDH decks for a while now. The deck turned in mostly W/B wipes and removal with some reanimation and lifegain. I was trying to decide between Karlov and Ayli to command it today, but now your deck has me wondering if I should add green. I was especially trying to ignore green because I use it too much, but it wouldn't be used in the typical way for this kind of deck. I think the green really adds a nice punch to the typical stax deck.
If you had to take green out, what would you have to stick back in to fill the holes?
Card questions -
Why isn't bitterblossom in the deck?
Why not Garruk Wildspeaker? He can either make a token, or ramp you even if you just have one or two lands after a land wipe.
What about Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger? Ramps you and taps them.
Does Gaddock Teeg work here?
Privileged position lock with sterling grove just win-more?
My main criticism would be that every "fog" card you had could just simply be replaced by the immense selection of boards wipes in W/B. I think you would upgrade your power in a heartbeat. I suppose that's why I also use some reanimation in my version. The trick being not to make the deck a reanimator/sacrifice/token deck instead of a control deck.
As for Ayli as someone mentioned, I see her as a baby/token version of a good Vish kal deck with the added benefit of exiling permanents instead of one shotting people. I think Ayli (along with felidar sovereign and beacon of immortality) would fit her into a burstier life gain deck to ensure her second abilitiy can be utilized. At worst, she is a great sac outlet for a token based deck with a very low cmc. The more I write this the more I want to make a W/B token deck utilizing bitterblossom etc, which the bonus of it not being a stax deck. Hmmm.
Any updates on the deck with Ayli at the helm? I imagine her shell would need to be a reanimation/token instead of a permanent wiping control shell. Or perhaps a stax shell while waiting for win cons of the felidar type?
My main addition is spirit loop. It gains you life, which also stacks with lifelink. It also puts itself back into your hand whenever it's destroyed. Wow, talk about value and at only 2cmc. Secondly, castigate. I feel this is a must for 1v1 and still a super unused and flavorful W/B card.
As for the rest of the thread, I feel people are too focused on turning Karlov into a pseudo voltron with a lot of cheap lifegain cards supporting this mission. The problem here besides his lack of protection or haste is that the rest of the deck sucks outside of infinite combos you may throw in after he surely is removed. I had a tuned voltron Kaalia deck long ago and I know how terrible it is as the table size and skill grows.
Instead, I started this deck with a W/B control shell. Wipes, wipes, more wipes and the insane targeted removal of W and W/B cards. After that you are safe to fill in the spots to experiment, with voltron additions (imo) being the weakest or riskiest outside of 1v1. What I learned and eventially did instead was to put a chunk of clutch creatures in that have to be answered (instead of your general being answered!) and move the deck's mission along in some way:
pestilence demon
sun titan
ashen rider
wurmcoil engine
baneslayer angel
divinity of pride.
The low and mid cmc areas of the deck are weak on solid creatures due to the removal shell and lack of threatening creatures without OTHER kinds of support in the deck (say, a token or sacrifice theme). To solve this I put in recursion. Remember, things are dying alot because of the W/B control (wipe) shell. Specifically, I put in either insanely high value recursion or recursion that targets the enemies gy (reanimate, animate dead, phyrexian reclamation). I could see rise of the dark realms in a certain meta, however I opted for storm herd instead. The trick here was not going so deep into recursion that it turned into a typical recursion deck and wasn't a control/lifegain deck anymore.
Finally, I plan on trying to implement an equipment package that lends itself to both life gain and recursion (think sword of light and shadow, Umezawa's Jitte, loxodon warhammer, basilisk collar), batterskull, stoneforge mystic. This will be the final and most complicated section to balance, but it may be super efficient and work well with the wipe, recursion and lifegain strategy.
All said and done, Karlov will be nothing but a finisher if the cards and board come together correctly, or if I need bait for removal. There will be no massive lifegain swings outside of pestilence demon with a spirit loop, or a pumped debt to the deathless. This means cards like well of lost dreams lose power. Karlov, like the past commanders I've used for this deck were nothing but a W/B color provider.
W/B legendaries have had an insane boost in the past two years. I feel that Karlov excels as a super removal engine instead of voltron.