Those two off the top of my head. Doesn’t matter if they are not going for infinite combo. Too much value.
Any repeatable counter spell/ability.
Any extra turn card that does not exile itself.
Any mass land destruction.
And last, any chaos cards that would mix up permanents too badly on the field. And not because of the effect. This is mostly because some cards are very expensive. And I don’t even want the optics that there is an opportunity to steal a card from another player.
Note: I would be fine playing against many of these things. I just don’t run them myself.
Can confirm this was sent to people who also received their mythic edition box (eventually) and who did not contact Hasbro by phone after hours of website issues. I saw some rumors on Reddit regarding who did and did not receive a card. After not receiving anything over the weekend (and reports from other not receiving anything), anything was possible. Looks like it should be everyone who was having website issues that morning?
I wasn't on planning on ever bumping this thread, but I got my Ultimate Box Topper card in the mail today!
(Other people have been posting spoilers over the weekend and WotC already spoiled the entire list.)
There were all kinds of rumors about who would receive these and who would not. (If you received the Ravnica Mythic Edition box or not, if you contacted Hasbro customer service over the phone or not, etc.)
So in the end, I spent 3 hours of my Saturday morning with some frustration, but I was able to get a Mythic Edition box at MSRP and a extended art Cavern of Souls. Pretty good.
I was actually thinking of either building Jeskai or 4c non black miracles list using the precon commander but I really like this idea. thanks for posting
Yeah, I had Naya and Jeskai version of the deck build a couple weeks ago.
Naya was really fun (with Pyromancer's Goggles + Mana Reflection + Bonfire of the Damned, but there just wasn't quite enough top deck manipulation and/or tutors. It was fun when it work and when it didn't... it just wasn't a miracle deck. It was a glass cannon deck that had a hard time getting to the good parts. Naya also couldn't push cycling as a mechanic without access to New Frontiers.
I think the best thing about Bant is that it has 3 win conditions which attack from 3 different angles and yet the game plan is the same: stall the game, manipulate the top deck, and generate a lot of mana.
(I considered building 4-color Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, which is also an angel, and Jenara is just better. There aren't really enough things to proliferate unless you went heavy super friends. And yet, as good as Atraxa is, it just isn't as good as Jenara as a voltron commander option who can end the game with some counters and either Revenge of the Hunted and/or Temporal Mastery.)
Introduction (Con't) I've put together many different miracle decks with varying success, but this one only came together after Lyra Dawnbringer and Shalai, Voice of Plenty were printed. Jenara, Asura of War rounded out the angel sub-theme and she became the perfect commander. I bought a Timetwister and Moat in 2012 for $350 each and have been trying to put together a miracle deck ever since. The only restriction I have on the deck is that all 8 Bant miracles must be used, even if there are better alternatives. For example, the deck would probably be much better if I substituted Banishing Stroke for Swords to Plowshares. But I'm choosing not to do that. Why? Because this is a miracle deck.
Win Conditions
Entreat the Angels = Generate a lot of mana; go wide, make angels, and win the game.
Jenara, Asura of War = Generate a lot of mana; pile +1/+1 counters onto Jenara and win the game. (Note: Jenara turns Revenge of the Hunted into a legitimate threat to kill an opponent rather than a random buff.)
Hurricane - Generate a lot of mana; deal direct damage to everyone and win the game.
Major Ideas
Timetwister ♥ Miracles - Reload your used miracles and simultaneously shuffle a hand full of miracles back into your deck. Timetwister was made for this deck.
Cycling ♥ Miracles - In a 99 card deck with 8 miracles, the additional card draw helps dig into your miracles faster. More importantly, every card with cycling represents the ability for instant card draw to activate your miracles on your opponent's turns.
Plains Matters - Mistveil Plains is essential for your miracles in a deck that runs Mystical Tutor and Personal Tutor. Use Windswept Heath, Flooded Strand, and Kor Cartographer to fetch it directly into play. On the other hand, Tithe, Orsekos Explorer, and Eternal Dragon have some options. This deck just happens to be the correct colors to run the only 2 cycle lands which have the 'plains' subtype: Scattered Groves and Irrigated Farmland. Tithe & Oreskos Explorer turn into draw spells. Add in Fluctuator for a discount. And shuffle them back into your deck with Mistveil Plains & Timetwister for even more value. Throw in some dual lands and you have a mini-tool box of plains matters cards.
Final Thoughts I have fun manipulating the top deck and it's fun when it works. Blind flipping a miracle can feel even better. This is a deck that can attack on multiple axis (the 3 win conditions). You want to drop Jenara, Asura of War early and often, while setting up a big Entreat the Angels, and if all else fails, Hurricane everyone to death. From a deck building perspective -- coming from someone who has been putting miracle decks together for years -- it's nice to find multiple different mechanics with so much overlap and synergy (miracles, cycling, plains matters, and angels).
Cuts
Acidic Slime - Great with Revenge of the Hunted, but just not enough slots for another spot removal. The deck would probably be better if I just swapped out Banishing Stroke or Vanishment, but again, this is a miracle deck. I may put this back in the list later. Akroma's Memorial - This keeps going in-and-out of the list. All good abilities, but all of the creatures that matter already have flying and Entreat the Angels can be cast your opponent's EOT for pseudo-haste. It's also a 7-mana artifact in a deck that runs both Devastation Tide and Rebuild. Re-casting it does not feel good. Decree of Savagery - Nice with New Perspectives, but not worth the cost without it. Many other single target buffs in the deck. And the deck would only really benefit from a cycle'd Decree of Justice. Doubling Season - Even with Jenara and Entreat the Angels, it just isn't good enough. Jenara would rather get the same effect from Hardened Scales for less and Doubling Season + Entreat feels like overkill a lot of the time. Mirror Entity - Similar problem to Decree of Savagery where there aren't enough creatures to get enough value. Also, all the creatures that matter are already angels. Nylea's Bow - This was in the deck for a long time. It shuffle miracles and cycle lands back into the deck, it puts +1/+1 counters on Spike Weaver, it shoots down things that might fly over Moat, it's great with Revenge of the Hunted, and it even gains some life. And yet, 9 times out of ten, I would rather have a mana rock and set up something big instead of gain incremental value one turn at a time. Remote Isle - This deck really hates tap lands. I made an exception for Path of Ancestry and most of the time Irrigated Farmland and Scattered Groves never get put onto the battlefield -- they are just tutored for and cycled. Serra's Sanctum - The deck just barely does not have enough enchantments to make this worth while. This deck really wants to drop a turn 2 or 3 Jenara. Sanctum gets in the way of this most of the time.
I'd like to see 3 things with those redeemable codes.
1. No expiry date.
2. A game mode where only the starting 5 decks and Planeswalker decks are legal.
3. Any redeemed planeswalker deck is locked in, and cannot be edited or deleted unless you make a copy and edit it that way.
I would like to see a game mode where only pre-constructed decks are legal. When new decks are released, they can also been queued against players using pre-con decks in the back log. No rotation. Maybe split it into a 60-card pre-con format and a 100-card pre-con commander format.
There really isn't a compelling reason for WotC to print "blank tokens" when they can simply print the actual tokens said set/deck needs or fill it with advertising (a personal pet peeve of mine).
I might be the only one excited for this, but I've been using blank tokens from old World Championship decks for years in my Ravnica Cube (where you use a sharpie on a clear sleeve).
Do you mean the blank cards with the old mtG card frame with the WC backing? Those aren't tokens, they're proxies. About as close to an official proxy as we'll get in a set. WotC created those cards so people can pen in proxies of other existing or future cards and play them. Those sets were only printed 1997 to 2004 when sleeving was still in its infancy so players weren't really able to mix 'n' match card backings like we can now.
Obviously, nothing stops you, or any other player, from using the proxy cards as tokens. Just like people use 3D models, Yu-GI-Oh, Pokémon or anything else for that matter. I'm just saying those cards weren't intended as such.
Yes.
That's kind of the point of this speculation.
edit: Sidenote: I hope a Pack Rat token is included in either the Rakdos or Orzhov guild kits.
So I'm speculating that the Dimir deck will have 5 double-sided tokens with a horror on one side and a blank token on the other. And the Izzet deck will have 5 double-sided tokens with a goblin on one side and a blank token on the other.
Edit: Oops. I missed Thunderheads in the Izzet list. Did I miss anything in the Dimir list? The only thing I can think of are maybe hit counters from Etrata, the Silencer.
Not because of their game effect; scooping due to mixing multiple very expensive cards with other players’ cards and handing them off to strangers.
Does anyone do this?
Has anyone been very offended when you did?
Would you be offended if anyone did this to you?
Deadeye Navigator
Those two off the top of my head. Doesn’t matter if they are not going for infinite combo. Too much value.
Any repeatable counter spell/ability.
Any extra turn card that does not exile itself.
Any mass land destruction.
And last, any chaos cards that would mix up permanents too badly on the field. And not because of the effect. This is mostly because some cards are very expensive. And I don’t even want the optics that there is an opportunity to steal a card from another player.
Note: I would be fine playing against many of these things. I just don’t run them myself.
Can confirm this was sent to people who also received their mythic edition box (eventually) and who did not contact Hasbro by phone after hours of website issues. I saw some rumors on Reddit regarding who did and did not receive a card. After not receiving anything over the weekend (and reports from other not receiving anything), anything was possible. Looks like it should be everyone who was having website issues that morning?
(Other people have been posting spoilers over the weekend and WotC already spoiled the entire list.)
There were all kinds of rumors about who would receive these and who would not. (If you received the Ravnica Mythic Edition box or not, if you contacted Hasbro customer service over the phone or not, etc.)
So in the end, I spent 3 hours of my Saturday morning with some frustration, but I was able to get a Mythic Edition box at MSRP and a extended art Cavern of Souls. Pretty good.
Yeah, I had Naya and Jeskai version of the deck build a couple weeks ago.
Naya was really fun (with Pyromancer's Goggles + Mana Reflection + Bonfire of the Damned, but there just wasn't quite enough top deck manipulation and/or tutors. It was fun when it work and when it didn't... it just wasn't a miracle deck. It was a glass cannon deck that had a hard time getting to the good parts. Naya also couldn't push cycling as a mechanic without access to New Frontiers.
Jeskai was another glass cannon deck with things like Aurelia, the Warleader + Gisela, Blade of Goldnight + Sakashima, the Imposter. Jeskai's problem was that it was a miracle commander deck without a miracle commander. It doesn't have an equivalent to Jenara, Asura of War. It also wasn't as good as Bant at building a pillow-fort. Bant gives Spike Weaver and Lull / Angelsong.
I think the best thing about Bant is that it has 3 win conditions which attack from 3 different angles and yet the game plan is the same: stall the game, manipulate the top deck, and generate a lot of mana.
(I considered building 4-color Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, which is also an angel, and Jenara is just better. There aren't really enough things to proliferate unless you went heavy super friends. And yet, as good as Atraxa is, it just isn't as good as Jenara as a voltron commander option who can end the game with some counters and either Revenge of the Hunted and/or Temporal Mastery.)
11/11/2018
-1 Plains, +1 Cavern of Souls
-1 Basilisk Collar, +1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
-1 Replenish, +1 Spellskite
-1 Eternal Dragon, +1 Dragonlord Dromoka
-1 Lay Claim, +1 Cyclonic Rift
I love miracles. This is my miracle deck.
1 Jenara, Asura of War
Miracles (8)
1 Banishing Stroke
1 Blessings of Nature
1 Devastation Tide
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Revenge of the Hunted
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Terminus
1 Vanishment
Creatures (15)
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Oreskos Explorer
1 Spellskite
1 Palladium Myr
1 Kor Cartographer
1 Magus of the Moat
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Spike Weaver
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Lyra Dawnbringer
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Instant (8)
1 Noxious Revival
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tithe
1 Angelsong
1 Lull
1 Rebuild
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Personal Tutor
1 Timetwister
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Hurricane
1 Decree of Justice
Enchantments (14)
1 Land Tax
1 Rancor
1 Rune of Protection: Artifacts
1 Rune of Protection: Black
1 Rune of Protection: Blue
1 Rune of Protection: Green
1 Rune of Protection: Lands
1 Rune of Protection: Red
1 Rune of Protection: White
1 Sylvan Library
1 Moat
1 Mana Reflection
1 New Perspectives
1 Decree of Silence
Planeswalker (2)
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Nissa, Steward of Elements
Equipment (1)
1 Swiftfoot Boots
Other Artifacts (12)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Doubling Cube
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Fluctuator
1 Mind Stone
1 Scroll Rack
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Blasted Landscape
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Irrigated Farmland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Opal Palace
1 Path of Ancestry
1 Savannah
1 Scattered Groves
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Windswept Heath
Basic Land (17)
10 Forest
2 Island
5 Plains
Introduction (Con't)
I've put together many different miracle decks with varying success, but this one only came together after Lyra Dawnbringer and Shalai, Voice of Plenty were printed. Jenara, Asura of War rounded out the angel sub-theme and she became the perfect commander. I bought a Timetwister and Moat in 2012 for $350 each and have been trying to put together a miracle deck ever since. The only restriction I have on the deck is that all 8 Bant miracles must be used, even if there are better alternatives. For example, the deck would probably be much better if I substituted Banishing Stroke for Swords to Plowshares. But I'm choosing not to do that. Why? Because this is a miracle deck.
Win Conditions
Major Ideas
Combos
Timetwister + Cyclonic Rift / Devastation Tide - Nuke all nonland permanents and all graveyards with two cards.
Timetwister + New Perspectives - Need 7 cards? No problem.
Mana Crypt + Rune of Protection: Artifacts - Lose the flip? No problem.
Hurricane + Rune of Protection: Green - I never cycle the green rune unless I have no other choice.
Ancient Tomb + Rune of Protection: Lands - Does not ramp mana, but prevent the damage.
Basilisk Collar + Revenge of the Hunted - One sided board wipe.
Mana Reflection + Opal Palace - Two activations for +1/+1 counters. (Note: Commander tax needed.)
Mana Reflection + Path of Ancestry - Double scry on all of the angels.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope + Akroma's Vengeance - An obvious combo, but a good one.
Decree of Silence + New Perspectives - Zero mana, uncounterable, "Counter target spell. Draw a card."
Final Thoughts
I have fun manipulating the top deck and it's fun when it works. Blind flipping a miracle can feel even better. This is a deck that can attack on multiple axis (the 3 win conditions). You want to drop Jenara, Asura of War early and often, while setting up a big Entreat the Angels, and if all else fails, Hurricane everyone to death. From a deck building perspective -- coming from someone who has been putting miracle decks together for years -- it's nice to find multiple different mechanics with so much overlap and synergy (miracles, cycling, plains matters, and angels).
Cuts
Akroma's Memorial - This keeps going in-and-out of the list. All good abilities, but all of the creatures that matter already have flying and Entreat the Angels can be cast your opponent's EOT for pseudo-haste. It's also a 7-mana artifact in a deck that runs both Devastation Tide and Rebuild. Re-casting it does not feel good.
Decree of Savagery - Nice with New Perspectives, but not worth the cost without it. Many other single target buffs in the deck. And the deck would only really benefit from a cycle'd Decree of Justice.
Doubling Season - Even with Jenara and Entreat the Angels, it just isn't good enough. Jenara would rather get the same effect from Hardened Scales for less and Doubling Season + Entreat feels like overkill a lot of the time.
Mirror Entity - Similar problem to Decree of Savagery where there aren't enough creatures to get enough value. Also, all the creatures that matter are already angels.
Nylea's Bow - This was in the deck for a long time. It shuffle miracles and cycle lands back into the deck, it puts +1/+1 counters on Spike Weaver, it shoots down things that might fly over Moat, it's great with Revenge of the Hunted, and it even gains some life. And yet, 9 times out of ten, I would rather have a mana rock and set up something big instead of gain incremental value one turn at a time.
Remote Isle - This deck really hates tap lands. I made an exception for Path of Ancestry and most of the time Irrigated Farmland and Scattered Groves never get put onto the battlefield -- they are just tutored for and cycled.
Serra's Sanctum - The deck just barely does not have enough enchantments to make this worth while. This deck really wants to drop a turn 2 or 3 Jenara. Sanctum gets in the way of this most of the time.
Seems counter productive to show off full art cards by cropping the full art images.
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/800829-gk1-copy-token
Nice.
edit: I hope the Izzet deck has a couple of copy tokens with the Quasiduplicate art. And I hope they do the same for Followed Footsteps and Progenitor Mimic. (I hope for a lot of things.)
Clear sleeve. Marker on the sleeve.
Weird that it’s random.
I would like to see a game mode where only pre-constructed decks are legal. When new decks are released, they can also been queued against players using pre-con decks in the back log. No rotation. Maybe split it into a 60-card pre-con format and a 100-card pre-con commander format.
Yes.
That's kind of the point of this speculation.
edit: Sidenote: I hope a Pack Rat token is included in either the Rakdos or Orzhov guild kits.
In that video, it says that every Guild Kit will have 5 double-sided tokens. Now take a look at the spoiler list of the Guild Kits: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/guilds-ravnica-guild-kits-2018-09-25
The only token producers for Dimir are Call of the Nightwing & Stolen Identity and Izzet are Goblin Rally & Quasiduplicate. I might be the only one excited for this, but I've been using blank tokens from old World Championship decks for years in my Ravnica Cube (where you use a sharpie on a clear sleeve). They also work with Followed Footsteps and Progenitor Mimic.
So I'm speculating that the Dimir deck will have 5 double-sided tokens with a horror on one side and a blank token on the other. And the Izzet deck will have 5 double-sided tokens with a goblin on one side and a blank token on the other.
Edit: Oops. I missed Thunderheads in the Izzet list. Did I miss anything in the Dimir list? The only thing I can think of are maybe hit counters from Etrata, the Silencer.
Which books are not worth reading, if any?