Things have been pretty hectic IRL (nothing drastic, but very stressful and time-consuming), which is why I haven't been updating as promptly. I have come to the conclusion that I simply don't have time for the commitment of moderating this right now. I'd be happy to post the grid sometime today, but after that, I'm hoping someone steps forward to take the mantel. Perhaps if that person takes the things I started doing at peoples' requests and of my own volition, and adds more of each, this thread can be even better for the change.
The cards in question are the Phantom cards like Phantom Nomad. Because damage is dealt simeltaneously, even if you multi-block this card, it will still only remove one counter (excluding first strike etc.).
I like keeping anvil because it stops all of the Beacon and Zenith shenanigans. Also good against Eldrazi, etc, etc. The discard effect is usually secondary to reasons I play it. It's less effective than a Blightning or Augur of Skulls at actual discard (all 3 give op at least a 3cc play/2cc draw).
Beacon of Creation is iffy. WSZ is a decent replacement, and I like that it kills the Bridge/Beacon archetype in its replacement. Perhaps it is too good of a threat. I guess I'll vote to Axe it and see what happens.
Nezumi I think should stay. It's a decent threat with discard built in, but it's much slower discard. It's slower then blightning, but has benefits. It hasn't even had huge success, just occasional good luck. I say keep it.
Timewalk is only played if it's abused, and we have Beacon of Tomorrows for infinite turn shenanigans. Kill it, and let them use Orim's Chant - which is easier to play around.
/opinion
Anvil hurting Beacons/Zeniths isn't an issue if those cards are themselves banned. Also, I don't feel like hurint Eldrazi is a good thing, as there has onyl been moderate success with Emrakul. If Eldrazi get out of hand, Show and Tell and/or Sneak Attack getting banned will fix that.
I agree about Nezumi, I'm putting it up there as a potentially bad card, but I'll likely not vote for it myself.
Even Orim's Chant could potentially be busted, so I feel no problem nixing the almost strictly better version of the deck.
Ugh. That is awful. Seriously... if only we had quality control on the effects of special weeks so people actually all are on equal footing with knowing what it actually means. I had no idea it meant that combat could only result in 1 damage to a player, even with tokens...
Oy! I don't get paid for this gig homespun!
But seriously, this does suck, as I threw this one together at the last second in order to be festive and fun.
I have some disagreements with how my deck was scored,
noting that the 1 damage at a time rule applied only to damage dealt to players and also that combat damage is dealt simultaneously by all attacking creatures.
This changes the result of me vs Dragondart to a draw, because I can either block a saproling and gain a bunch of life (doing damage to a creature), which it would take a bunch of turns to deal back to me or I can attack with an indestructible dude and force a block to gain a bunch of life.
I would do my full results if I actually had time.
This is a very unfortunate misunderstanding. Your reading of the rules there is correct, so I can't really rule against you, however, the intent, how many other people submitted decks, and how I scored them all act as if there was a clause stipulating that all but 1 damage from each source is prevented. Additionally, the Bitterblossom deck would be an illegal submission.
I'd like to get some suggestions as to how to fix this, as every possible solution I see shafts someone.
If I can convince Heart of Draco to change the land rule, Anvil of Bogardan will be less of an issue, while Fastbond and The Rack can safely be removed from the banned list.
I like your land rule, but I'm happier with the current one, as I enjoy the double land shenanigans like Jitte/Nexus, and I also enjoy stuff like Exploration being playable. Yours is also more difficult to score/grid.
Next week is going to be Backbuild using your land rule, and I'll run some sort of special week using it the week after, but I think we'll go back to mine after November ends.
Additionally, being able to pull cards that don't work off the banned list doesn't exactly excite me. They're still just as out of the format, just less formally.
RSZ does the following damage:
2:1
3:2
4:3
5:4
6:5
7:6 Kill
Beacon does the following damage:
5: 4
6: 9
7: 15 Kill
White Sun's does the following damage:
5: 2
6: 6
7: 12
8: 20 Kill
So it both kills a turn later and defends a lot less effectively (Fewer tokens and no removal). It is also a much stronger color commitment.
I foresee WSZ being a good, playable card post ban, but I don't foresee it getting out of hand, as it's weaker than its cousins.
Also:
@Catmurderer: I'm surprised you didn't vote to ban Time Walk. You're usually so anti-ban, and that's the one deck I've received a complaint about.
You only decide which one it is when that spell would leave your hand or if it would otherwise effect the game (You can't forecast a Steeling Stance, then play Transcendent Master).
I'll call it Second Thoughts Magic. Or Not Completely Mental Magic.
I'd just need people to help do their own results.
Seconded. I'd really like if all of the XCB games started doing this. It's a pain to have to find last week's thread to figure out how the matches play out.
9 vs. 11 (Dissipate / Inkmoth Nexus)
Listed as 6-0, should be 2-2.
When I go first, I cast turn 2 Beacon which he can't counter yet. My 4 guys outrace his Nexus.
11 vs. 14 (Hesitation / Nezumi Shortfang)
Listed as 4-1, should be 2-2.
When he goes first, he uses Nezumi on my upkeep 3rd turn. I hit him for 4 on the third turn (7). After that he leaves Stabwhisker back to block. He takes 3 and eats a guy (4). He takes 2 and eats a guy (2). He takes 1 and eats a guy (1). Now I only have 1 guy and he can block it, leaving me dead from his other ability.
Blah, reading is also tech. I incorrectly assumed Nezumi Shortfang belonged to the long line of Disrupting Scepter descendants which can only be activated on one's own turn.
Those cards are worded that way so that you can't lock out your opponents by making them discard during draw step.
Nezumi can't do that because it flips, so it can feel free to activate anytime.
This concept led me to put the most evil creature on a Mimic Vat. Before Innistrad, I would put Liliana's Specter in a Vat and lock out my opponent by making them discard every card during draw step while blocking their existing creatures using the token.
The following cards have been cropping up a bit too much lately or are possible menaces to the format:
1. Anvil of Bogardan
This card dodges the discard rule, and completely destroys slower decks. I just think it's an un-fun strategy, and has been very successful the few times it's seen play.
2. Beacon of Creation
This is Red Sun's Zenith's replacement. Like RSZ, BoC has a good clock (turn 7 by itself; same as RSZ), it defends itself, it scales up with the game, so if you can get past the first coupele turns, you take control, and it's recursion. It has also done rather well every time it has showed up, even simply running it with Exploration.
3. Nezumi Shortfang
While a lot slower than The Rack (already banned), it is on a creature, and combined with repeatable discard (in addition to the fact that it's life loss and not damage). Works fine early, but destroys slow decks.
4. Time Walk Anurid Scavenger recurring this card is annoying, as if you don't disrupt it, it will at least be a draw via infinite turns. It gives the opponent 3 turns on the play and 2 turns on the draw to get around it. It wins a lot, and loses very little, drawing a good chunk of the time. There is already an almost as powerful deck available in the form of Orim's Chant.
5. NO BANS
As usual, this is for those who think that bans are bad, or that all of these cards are fine. If you want 1 or more cards banned, but strongly feel that one of the others deserves to stay, don't vote this option, but post below.
Actually Elixir of Immortality is also tech against discard (it could have been good against counters except that all the good ones that are still legal exile the spell!).
Anyway, I think both VM4L and HoD should 6-0 all the Nezumi Shortfang decks (Benbuzz, Antonia, Personman). I wrote out results for one of the closer races:
HoD vs Personman, Personman on play
1P
1H Elixir
2P Nezumi
2H shuffle (HoD 16)
3P Nezumi discards Sovereign, flips.
3H (HoD 13), Elixir shuffle (HoD 18)
4P Attack (HoD 17), Hesitation
4H (HoD 14) draw a card
5P Attack (HoD 13)
5H (HoD 11), draw second card
6P attack (HoD 10)
6H (HoD 9) pitch Sovereign to Hesitation
7P attack (HoD 8)
7H (HoD 6) Elixir shuffle (HoD 11)
8P attack (HoD 10)
8H (HoD 7) If HoD draws Elixir, he can net +1 life/turn to stabilize and win. So suppose instead HoD draws and plays Sovereign.
9P no attack
9H (HoD 4) Draws Elixer, nets his +1 life/turn to stablize and win
Actually, vs. Personman:
1VM: Elixir
1P:
2VM: Shuffle (16)
2P: Nezumi
3VM: Elixir
3P: Hesitation
4VM: Seraph--countered
4PM: If Elixir is ever used, VM will draw it, and be forced to discard. I didn't realize that you and I could just not play spells and force the draw.
1P:
1VM: Elixir
2P: Nezumi
2VM: Shuffle (16)
3P: Hesitation
3VM: Regardless of which spell you play, the other is discarded.
4-1 Personman
vs. Benbuzz790
1VM: Elixir
1BB:
2VM: Shuffle (16)
2BB: Nezumi
3VM: Elixir
3BB: If VM Shuffles, activate Nezumi during draw step. If Elixir is discarded, Nezumi races Seraph. If VM doesn't shuffle, the process repeats, ending in a draw.
4VM: Discard Seraph. Play Elixir. (21 from EOT shuffle).
VM forces win by going to Infinite life and racing.
It actually goes the same on the draw.
6-0 VM+HoD
vs. Antonia
Can't stop the Elixir Shuffle, but even if VM/HoD gains Infinite Life, they still can't stop the Shortfang Discard. If they ever choose the threat over the Elixir, it gets vindicated.
2-2
I'll reflect all of these changes. I didn't use the Elixir creatively enough.
Things have been pretty hectic IRL (nothing drastic, but very stressful and time-consuming), which is why I haven't been updating as promptly. I have come to the conclusion that I simply don't have time for the commitment of moderating this right now. I'd be happy to post the grid sometime today, but after that, I'm hoping someone steps forward to take the mantel. Perhaps if that person takes the things I started doing at peoples' requests and of my own volition, and adds more of each, this thread can be even better for the change.
A) Cancel this week's results.
B) In the future, take more time to template special weeks, instead of throwing it together for a gag.
Anvil hurting Beacons/Zeniths isn't an issue if those cards are themselves banned. Also, I don't feel like hurint Eldrazi is a good thing, as there has onyl been moderate success with Emrakul. If Eldrazi get out of hand, Show and Tell and/or Sneak Attack getting banned will fix that.
I agree about Nezumi, I'm putting it up there as a potentially bad card, but I'll likely not vote for it myself.
Even Orim's Chant could potentially be busted, so I feel no problem nixing the almost strictly better version of the deck.
Oy! I don't get paid for this gig homespun!
But seriously, this does suck, as I threw this one together at the last second in order to be festive and fun.
This is a very unfortunate misunderstanding. Your reading of the rules there is correct, so I can't really rule against you, however, the intent, how many other people submitted decks, and how I scored them all act as if there was a clause stipulating that all but 1 damage from each source is prevented. Additionally, the Bitterblossom deck would be an illegal submission.
I'd like to get some suggestions as to how to fix this, as every possible solution I see shafts someone.
Anyone?
I like your land rule, but I'm happier with the current one, as I enjoy the double land shenanigans like Jitte/Nexus, and I also enjoy stuff like Exploration being playable. Yours is also more difficult to score/grid.
Next week is going to be Backbuild using your land rule, and I'll run some sort of special week using it the week after, but I think we'll go back to mine after November ends.
Additionally, being able to pull cards that don't work off the banned list doesn't exactly excite me. They're still just as out of the format, just less formally.
2:1
3:2
4:3
5:4
6:5
7:6 Kill
Beacon does the following damage:
5: 4
6: 9
7: 15 Kill
White Sun's does the following damage:
5: 2
6: 6
7: 12
8: 20 Kill
So it both kills a turn later and defends a lot less effectively (Fewer tokens and no removal). It is also a much stronger color commitment.
I foresee WSZ being a good, playable card post ban, but I don't foresee it getting out of hand, as it's weaker than its cousins.
Also:
@Catmurderer: I'm surprised you didn't vote to ban Time Walk. You're usually so anti-ban, and that's the one deck I've received a complaint about.
What he said.
However, I wouldn't mind doing a variant, where you submit a normal deck, but each card has an alternate usage as another card, which you also submit.
Example:
I submit Cenn's Tactitian, which I want to be able to double as Path to Exile, and Lich Lord of Unx, which I want to be able to double as Consult the Necrosages.
You only decide which one it is when that spell would leave your hand or if it would otherwise effect the game (You can't forecast a Steeling Stance, then play Transcendent Master).
I'll call it Second Thoughts Magic. Or Not Completely Mental Magic.
I'd just need people to help do their own results.
Here are this week's top decks by deck type:
1st: Nezumi Shortfang/Plaguespitter (54)
1st: Anurid Scanveger+Time Walk (54)
3rd: Shortfang/Vindicate (52)
3rd: Beacon of Creation/Exploration (52)
4th: Beacon/Negate (51)
4th: Shortfang/Hesitation (51)
Every deck above 60 points is the same as every deck that used a card on the chopping block.
Yep.
Those cards are worded that way so that you can't lock out your opponents by making them discard during draw step.
Nezumi can't do that because it flips, so it can feel free to activate anytime.
This concept led me to put the most evil creature on a Mimic Vat. Before Innistrad, I would put Liliana's Specter in a Vat and lock out my opponent by making them discard every card during draw step while blocking their existing creatures using the token.
1. Anvil of Bogardan
This card dodges the discard rule, and completely destroys slower decks. I just think it's an un-fun strategy, and has been very successful the few times it's seen play.
2. Beacon of Creation
This is Red Sun's Zenith's replacement. Like RSZ, BoC has a good clock (turn 7 by itself; same as RSZ), it defends itself, it scales up with the game, so if you can get past the first coupele turns, you take control, and it's recursion. It has also done rather well every time it has showed up, even simply running it with Exploration.
3. Nezumi Shortfang
While a lot slower than The Rack (already banned), it is on a creature, and combined with repeatable discard (in addition to the fact that it's life loss and not damage). Works fine early, but destroys slow decks.
4. Time Walk
Anurid Scavenger recurring this card is annoying, as if you don't disrupt it, it will at least be a draw via infinite turns. It gives the opponent 3 turns on the play and 2 turns on the draw to get around it. It wins a lot, and loses very little, drawing a good chunk of the time. There is already an almost as powerful deck available in the form of Orim's Chant.
5. NO BANS
As usual, this is for those who think that bans are bad, or that all of these cards are fine. If you want 1 or more cards banned, but strongly feel that one of the others deserves to stay, don't vote this option, but post below.
Time Walk
Nezumi Shortfang
Beacon of Creation
Anvil of Bogardan
I'm not feeling as pro-ban after the large bans after last month, so there would have to be a larger majority against these cards to ban them.
Actually, vs. Personman:
1VM: Elixir
1P:
2VM: Shuffle (16)
2P: Nezumi
3VM: Elixir
3P: Hesitation
4VM: Seraph--countered
4PM: If Elixir is ever used, VM will draw it, and be forced to discard. I didn't realize that you and I could just not play spells and force the draw.
1P:
1VM: Elixir
2P: Nezumi
2VM: Shuffle (16)
3P: Hesitation
3VM: Regardless of which spell you play, the other is discarded.
4-1 Personman
vs. Benbuzz790
1VM: Elixir
1BB:
2VM: Shuffle (16)
2BB: Nezumi
3VM: Elixir
3BB: If VM Shuffles, activate Nezumi during draw step. If Elixir is discarded, Nezumi races Seraph. If VM doesn't shuffle, the process repeats, ending in a draw.
4VM: Discard Seraph. Play Elixir. (21 from EOT shuffle).
VM forces win by going to Infinite life and racing.
It actually goes the same on the draw.
6-0 VM+HoD
vs. Antonia
Can't stop the Elixir Shuffle, but even if VM/HoD gains Infinite Life, they still can't stop the Shortfang Discard. If they ever choose the threat over the Elixir, it gets vindicated.
2-2
I'll reflect all of these changes. I didn't use the Elixir creatively enough.
Which? The Bugaloo one or the very descriptive one?
Forgot I changed the value on that!
Well Benbuzz790, you're still winning, but not by a huge amount anymore.