Maybe you just aren't playing the format right? I've been having a blast with it, running rogue decks (AKA "Non-Time Vault") and have won a good chunk of games.
This. You always have a game 2 and 3 post board; FoW is probably the best investment you can make in either format if you have money to spare. I lucked out and won a small vintage tourney running a legacy deck and no power on purpose. My buddy makes it a point to mix it up as well and run powerless decks in our pretty powered meta, and we've both come away with some strong results.
People put so much emphasis on $$$ = win, but you could hand a vintage deck to a mediocre Standard-only player and have an excellent vintage player put them in their place, and vice versa (yeah, I've had a vintage deck owned by a standard deck... what the hell is "Cancel"?)
If anything, vintage is the most challenging scene because you have the most tools available to you, the most interactions to think through, and to do it powerless with your hands tied is just icing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, resuscitate your vintage forum, I need some input on Oath btw.
I've generally preferred the Elephant Oath build of decks, but decided to throw in 2x Dragon Breath and go back down to the two "Golden Gun" creatures of Blightsteel and Emrakul based on some of these results:
This second set seems to forego Vault/Key altogether, or at the most, have it in the sideboard. Gifts is completely gone; while most of these T8s are in the 20-participant range and run 15 lands minimum, 16 lands max, while the deck that beat a 53-player field ran 17 with TWO maindeck Beast Within. Most everyone has abandoned Tolarian Academy.
- Tolarian Academy. This has caused me to mulligan plenty, and is dead MANY times. I don't want to splash red as most builds, so I wonder if Strip or an additional Tropical (to make 3x in the deck) is a better choice.
- Beast Within has been great: takes out Mana Crypt during infinite Vault turns, and has allowed me to survive a resolved SadSac with Beast beats, and helps me get around Chalices at 1 and 2. Anyone see drawbacks? Is there enough mana to run another from the sideboard?
- Vault/Key. I guess in addition to Dragon Breath, it's more dead cards, but the results above seem to justify it. But I still can't get around taking this out of the deck. I see how the focus switches to adding more cards to support protecting your limited 2 creature WinCons, but are there other significant benefits to cutting this?
- Scroll/Ponder. I'm very open to cutting Ponder, but not Scroll, which gets me Ancestral and protection. I haven't missed Gifts. Other than "depends on your meta," any pros/cons on Scroll/Ponder and/or replacement ideas? (the Ambrojo deck ran 3x Negate and maindeck Steel Sabotage for example)
- Land count. I do have a Shop-heavy meta, and test a lot against Shop with my 17 land build, and I don't really sweat for land (maybe just cut Tolarian and go to a 16 land build)? Meta influences sideboard, and most of the lists I pulled are from Europe, and I wonder if that is an influence on the lower land count.
I'm also testing running minus the off-color moxen and staying counter heavy, and that has been very solid.
Thoughts on any of my questions are greatly appreciated.
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1467
He runs 4x Show and Tell, 4x Emrakul, 1x Blightsteel.
This. You always have a game 2 and 3 post board; FoW is probably the best investment you can make in either format if you have money to spare. I lucked out and won a small vintage tourney running a legacy deck and no power on purpose. My buddy makes it a point to mix it up as well and run powerless decks in our pretty powered meta, and we've both come away with some strong results.
People put so much emphasis on $$$ = win, but you could hand a vintage deck to a mediocre Standard-only player and have an excellent vintage player put them in their place, and vice versa (yeah, I've had a vintage deck owned by a standard deck... what the hell is "Cancel"?)
If anything, vintage is the most challenging scene because you have the most tools available to you, the most interactions to think through, and to do it powerless with your hands tied is just icing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, resuscitate your vintage forum, I need some input on Oath btw.
https://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=30806
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1450
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1446
One build chucks Merchant Scroll, the other chucks Gifts/Regrowth, both chucked Ponder.
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1455
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1449
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1448
http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1445
This second set seems to forego Vault/Key altogether, or at the most, have it in the sideboard. Gifts is completely gone; while most of these T8s are in the 20-participant range and run 15 lands minimum, 16 lands max, while the deck that beat a 53-player field ran 17 with TWO maindeck Beast Within. Most everyone has abandoned Tolarian Academy.
I've adopted -1 Gifts, +2 Dragon Breath, +1 Beast Within, keeping Scroll, Ponder and Vault/Key.
Can I get some thoughts on:
- Tolarian Academy. This has caused me to mulligan plenty, and is dead MANY times. I don't want to splash red as most builds, so I wonder if Strip or an additional Tropical (to make 3x in the deck) is a better choice.
- Beast Within has been great: takes out Mana Crypt during infinite Vault turns, and has allowed me to survive a resolved SadSac with Beast beats, and helps me get around Chalices at 1 and 2. Anyone see drawbacks? Is there enough mana to run another from the sideboard?
- Vault/Key. I guess in addition to Dragon Breath, it's more dead cards, but the results above seem to justify it. But I still can't get around taking this out of the deck. I see how the focus switches to adding more cards to support protecting your limited 2 creature WinCons, but are there other significant benefits to cutting this?
- Scroll/Ponder. I'm very open to cutting Ponder, but not Scroll, which gets me Ancestral and protection. I haven't missed Gifts. Other than "depends on your meta," any pros/cons on Scroll/Ponder and/or replacement ideas? (the Ambrojo deck ran 3x Negate and maindeck Steel Sabotage for example)
- Land count. I do have a Shop-heavy meta, and test a lot against Shop with my 17 land build, and I don't really sweat for land (maybe just cut Tolarian and go to a 16 land build)? Meta influences sideboard, and most of the lists I pulled are from Europe, and I wonder if that is an influence on the lower land count.
I'm also testing running minus the off-color moxen and staying counter heavy, and that has been very solid.
Thoughts on any of my questions are greatly appreciated.