Well for U more you get blatant thievery that is WAY better...
Is it? Seven is way different than six as well as UU vs UUU. When you fire off blatant thievery, you may not even get much more in value than the confiscate grabbed, unless the board was loaded in which case a wipe is likely impending. I guess you could take three lands...but is that worth 4UUU? I have my doubts.
it's like casting confiscate three times against three opponents and you don't even have to worry about enchantment removal. so yeah totally worth a mere U...
our games last 1-1,5 hours in three. We don't play combo or other things to speed the game up... the game just ends at some point.
Some quick rules:
1) attack. always. if your creature can go unpunished, attack. if you don't want to enrage anyone, throw a dice or just attack someone because he has the highest life total.
2) if you tutor something (lands, especially) that has no relevance on the current turn, just announce what you are tutoring for and pass. tutor it while your opponents do their turns.
3) don't run too many board reset cards and especially don't play them unless it's really necessary
Wow, nice way to be shady
MSRP greatly helped me and my friend not getting screwed by our LSG... i guess i need to find another store or just stick with buying online
idk if that was meant to help non-american customers, because american can buy from low prices from target, while others can't
This is a TCG don't expect it to work like a tv series that prioritize ratings.
I don't understand what this is supposed to mean.
TCG can't kill characters? TCG can't have a grim atmosphere?
Because magic invented the "let's kill off half of our cast" way before than got or marvel (well, not really, but way before the tv show and the movies). In the first phyrexian invasion many titans and weatherlight's members died.
No, no it is not, unless Tezzeret is brain dead enough to take the Planar Bridge over to them they can not leave Argentum/Mirrodin/New Phyrexia and even if he did the only way they could be a threat is if they managed to make oil bombs and infect entire planes from scratch a plan that is nowhere near guaranteed to work.
You are way underestimating them. Old phyrexia could easily craft planar portals, if a random elf learnt how to do that (and Venser was able too if i remember), why phyrexian shouldn't be able to craft similar engines?
On their strenght, they can easily infiltrate sleeper agents and destabilize
Honestly i think they are more a threat than eldrazi or bolas, simply because they are more subtle and resilient.
If Elspeth's origin wasn't retconned, we still have misterious phyrexian colonies scattered thrugh the multiverse
I don’t understand what you mean by “good for the table.” When is any kind of board wipe symmetrically good for every in the game?
Usually good for the table means recovering from a lopsided situation where one player is far ahead. Generally symmetrically good for everyone except the person who was ahead.
This
If i have 50-100 tokens that are gonna wipe out almost everyone the next turn and you wrath, you did something good for the table. Even if the other players lost some creatures, veryone is still in the game, the disaster was averted and the match can continue.
It wasn't a situation that could be handled in another way, even with the cooperation of all the other players.
And it's not like wraths are sacred too. If used "at random" they can make extremely long and boring.
One of my most terrible game was with a jund deck full of wraths. The guy piloting it was like "you have one more creature than me! wrath!" and made the game last forever.
So yeah the "reset button" cards should be using accordingly when the table need it. And MLD is the most tricky and the most "restting" of all the reset buttons. If you use reset button just to put yourself at advantage or, even worse, at random, expect other players to act accordingly. That means targeting you (at best) or not liking to play with you (at worst).
If you're going to have a huge problem with MLD, then why not counter the MLD? I agree with you about MLD not being the answer vs Ramp. But you can't make arguments like that.
Hey, i wasted one of my counterspell for your MLD, now i have only one for the dangerous ramp player! Well the alternative was stopping playing for 2-3 turns, so i guess i'll take it!
... so yeah, another situation were MLD just made things worse
As for you "never seeing the good outweigh the bad," I wrote an instance that happened to me yesterday where it killed 14 creatures and made my opponents' commanders uncastable for several turns while leaving mine on the battlefield with no blockers in the post you quoted. Trust me, it was good.
I meant the good for the whole table, not jut for yourself. Of course MLD is good for yourself. The problem is that it's not going to be good for the table in almost any situation, so the table is right to discourage it or KOS.
I think the problem you are having is that you think the argument is binary. Either MLD is good or it is bad. My stance is that it can be bad and also it can be good. It’s a spectrum. It is up to the player to assess situations and deploy it or hold it.
I have yet to see a situation where MLD good sides outweight its bad sides.
I think the problem you are having is that you think only about your perspective and not about other players also. "Yeah i stopped the ramp player with my armageddon, he was going to win""But i had two counterspells in my hand, i could have stopped him too, no i have to sit down for several turns doing nothing".
Using a wildfire just to kill a ramunap or a mul daya for example will get you o much hate from the table... and for the right reason. The ramp player will still have more land and the others won't be able to do anything.
I agree it's a great a tool, in fact you were able to keep coffers/urborg and become the ramp player yourself. So it wasn't actually a move made for greater justice or to make everything fair, it was just to make you win. Don't complain if other people want to stop you from winning, so they want to stop wildfire.
All the situations you are pointing out feels a lot like magical christmas land. Yeah a player was able to ramp until 9 just with cultivate and rampant growth variants (while the other players have what? 6 lands? 5 lands? 4 lands?), cast tooth and nail, assemble a combo and win without any other player having counterspell or removals?
Many safepoint where you can stop the player without needing MLD and restarting the game.
The only convincing argument you made is about Omnath and similar decks. MLD can really be the best strategy against them.
Buffsam makes a good point. Can we focus less on the social aspect of playing MLD and get back to the original intent of the thread, please?
Everytime someone tries the pro MLD players still talk about the social aspect.
I have yet to hear:
- why MLD is better than single-target land destruction against lands like cradle/coffers
- how can MLD help against other forms of ramp. Mana crypt + Mana vault surely is a lot worse than farseek + cultivate
- how can limited MLD (like wildfire) stop the ramp player
- why harming the other players is better than all together ganging on the ramp player
- why you can't use removal or theft effects against the ramp player.
i'd really like to hear the answers, but i bet the only thing i will get is "you are too entitled because you think land are sacred, they are resources like everything else" or something like that.
it's like casting confiscate three times against three opponents and you don't even have to worry about enchantment removal. so yeah totally worth a mere U...
Some quick rules:
1) attack. always. if your creature can go unpunished, attack. if you don't want to enrage anyone, throw a dice or just attack someone because he has the highest life total.
2) if you tutor something (lands, especially) that has no relevance on the current turn, just announce what you are tutoring for and pass. tutor it while your opponents do their turns.
3) don't run too many board reset cards and especially don't play them unless it's really necessary
this work for us
MSRP greatly helped me and my friend not getting screwed by our LSG... i guess i need to find another store or just stick with buying online
idk if that was meant to help non-american customers, because american can buy from low prices from target, while others can't
I don't understand what this is supposed to mean.
TCG can't kill characters? TCG can't have a grim atmosphere?
Because magic invented the "let's kill off half of our cast" way before than got or marvel (well, not really, but way before the tv show and the movies). In the first phyrexian invasion many titans and weatherlight's members died.
I'm not saying it's the right way to handle the story, i'm just explaining the reasons behind it
Game of thrones kills things and is popular
Infinity war kills things and is popular
Honestly i'm really getting and infinity war feeling out of this set, i think wotc is trying to replicate it as much as possible.
You are way underestimating them. Old phyrexia could easily craft planar portals, if a random elf learnt how to do that (and Venser was able too if i remember), why phyrexian shouldn't be able to craft similar engines?
On their strenght, they can easily infiltrate sleeper agents and destabilize
Honestly i think they are more a threat than eldrazi or bolas, simply because they are more subtle and resilient.
If Elspeth's origin wasn't retconned, we still have misterious phyrexian colonies scattered thrugh the multiverse
This
If i have 50-100 tokens that are gonna wipe out almost everyone the next turn and you wrath, you did something good for the table. Even if the other players lost some creatures, veryone is still in the game, the disaster was averted and the match can continue.
It wasn't a situation that could be handled in another way, even with the cooperation of all the other players.
And it's not like wraths are sacred too. If used "at random" they can make extremely long and boring.
One of my most terrible game was with a jund deck full of wraths. The guy piloting it was like "you have one more creature than me! wrath!" and made the game last forever.
So yeah the "reset button" cards should be using accordingly when the table need it. And MLD is the most tricky and the most "restting" of all the reset buttons. If you use reset button just to put yourself at advantage or, even worse, at random, expect other players to act accordingly. That means targeting you (at best) or not liking to play with you (at worst).
Hey, i wasted one of my counterspell for your MLD, now i have only one for the dangerous ramp player! Well the alternative was stopping playing for 2-3 turns, so i guess i'll take it!
... so yeah, another situation were MLD just made things worse
I meant the good for the whole table, not jut for yourself. Of course MLD is good for yourself. The problem is that it's not going to be good for the table in almost any situation, so the table is right to discourage it or KOS.
I have yet to see a situation where MLD good sides outweight its bad sides.
I think the problem you are having is that you think only about your perspective and not about other players also. "Yeah i stopped the ramp player with my armageddon, he was going to win""But i had two counterspells in my hand, i could have stopped him too, no i have to sit down for several turns doing nothing".
Using a wildfire just to kill a ramunap or a mul daya for example will get you o much hate from the table... and for the right reason. The ramp player will still have more land and the others won't be able to do anything.
I agree it's a great a tool, in fact you were able to keep coffers/urborg and become the ramp player yourself. So it wasn't actually a move made for greater justice or to make everything fair, it was just to make you win. Don't complain if other people want to stop you from winning, so they want to stop wildfire.
All the situations you are pointing out feels a lot like magical christmas land. Yeah a player was able to ramp until 9 just with cultivate and rampant growth variants (while the other players have what? 6 lands? 5 lands? 4 lands?), cast tooth and nail, assemble a combo and win without any other player having counterspell or removals?
Many safepoint where you can stop the player without needing MLD and restarting the game.
The only convincing argument you made is about Omnath and similar decks. MLD can really be the best strategy against them.
I think it's jace and the last one is gideon or liliana
Everytime someone tries the pro MLD players still talk about the social aspect.
I have yet to hear:
- why MLD is better than single-target land destruction against lands like cradle/coffers
- how can MLD help against other forms of ramp. Mana crypt + Mana vault surely is a lot worse than farseek + cultivate
- how can limited MLD (like wildfire) stop the ramp player
- why harming the other players is better than all together ganging on the ramp player
- why you can't use removal or theft effects against the ramp player.
i'd really like to hear the answers, but i bet the only thing i will get is "you are too entitled because you think land are sacred, they are resources like everything else" or something like that.
Yeah i know but my friends and i already play a similar game with the classical poker cards, so it's really underwhelming for me