MTG Salvation

Quote from Macabre »

The very first sentence I said in this topic was how if people complain about demonic tutor to the point of banning it, then this is complaining about is the color pie. Strict tutoring has been a black effect since alpha. If you want to ban something that is a part of a color identity then you probably just need to make personal house rules for your friends to decide.

This point makes no sense. Ancestral Recall has been in blue's color pie since alpha. And it still is. But it need to cost at least 2UU otherwise it's broken as *****.
Same for Time Walk VS Time Warp
Is it really that difficult to say the same about tutors?

Quote from Macabre »

There is only one demonic tutor. But as listed, there are many rampant growths.

Yeah and who the hell cares? You are comparing two completely different effects, they have nothing to do with each other. How can you compare a basic land with... everything? The tutor target can be ******* anything, rampant growth target is a selection of six cards.
It's like comparing Wood Elemental and Solemn Simulacrum because they both cost 4, or Dark Confidant and Shambling Ghoul because they have both 2 power.
They are completely different cards that fills different niches and have different power levels.

Quote from Macabre »

In terms of just an average table there are less than 5 playable and efficient strict demonic tutor effects. There may be a few highly specific off-color tutors to help like mystical tutor/fabricate/gamble/etc.

I provided a list of the tutors i consider broken, no need to reset the discussion.

Quote from Macabre »

But my opinion stays - if you want to ban an effect that one color is known for, then you're just unbalancing the game and showing other color(s) favoritism. That should stay at your own table as a house rule.

And again, Ancestral Recall and Time Walk are banned yet blue is still a thriving color.

Also, i'd really like to know how in your meta these evil blue-green decks can go from t2 rampant growth to t4 "something that has to be very relevant" to win against multiple opponents, because i still don't get it and i still don't understand how fast tutors couldn't improve these decks too.

Quote from Buffsam89 »

This is hilarious.

So, normal is, in a world full of Fae, Giants, Elves, etc., there is exactly one black woman who is Queen? That’s out of place. There is no context. Where the hell did she come from? If she was a purple elf, and there were no other elves present, I would be asking the same damn question.

Bro

• Syr Alin, the Lion's Claw
  
• Embereth Shieldbreaker
  
• Inspiring Veteran
  
• Savvy Hunter
  
• Wintermoor Commander
  
• Embereth Skyblazer

Will you stop complaining now? It's pretty clear that, while Eldraine has a really big majority of white people, minorities still exist

Honestly they are all ***** except 2 maybe 3.
There is no real benefit for playing an adventure and not enough cards to make a dedicated deck (and not even a dedicated commander)
Lucky Clover is a good enabler but sadly it has almost nothing to enable

Honestly this will be bull*****. It will either be too much errata or not enough errata. Simple example: will the new mh Urza become a noble and Yawgmoth become a warlock?
If so, they are errataing cards that aren't even 6 months old. If they don't, it doesn't make sense

Quote from TheOnlyOne652089 »

Unlike Ghalta this only looks for your single biggest creature, which makes this almost unplayable in a deck full of small creatures.

I mean it's total cost is 8, not 15. With a 3/3 you only need to pay 5

Quote from umtiger »

About the "singleton restriction" of the format, do you feel the same about Relentless Rats?

Really? We are comparing tutors to vanillas now?
Kinda tired of these thread, it's just full of false equivalence.

Tutors can be removals, counters, wrath and missing combo pieces all in one card. Do not compare them to other cards that can't do the same
The singleton nature of the format make it so the card OP McBrokenFace maybe be strong as ***** in my deck, but in the end it's just a single card inside a 100-card deck. I can't expect to use it everygame.
Tutors can act as copy #2, #3, #4 and even #5 of that cards, enormously increasing its chance to appear in almost every game.
And they can also be more versatile than that!

Quote from Macabre »

Quote from ilovesaprolings »

If your thesis is that rampant growth and similar ramps help a combo more than demonic tutor... well, does that really need an answer?

I'm not at all sure how you arrived to this thesis, so I have absolutely no idea how to even reply to this.

Not so hard. First you said that banning demonic tutor would be unfair without also banning rampant growth and similar cards. Then you said that tutors are necessary in casual to beat green-blue decks that use rampant growth. So...
Also, rampant growth is op but cultivate is fine? You sure have some weird power level meters...

I reiterate my opinion to ban all the fast tutors. They are far too versatile, can be played the same turn as the tutored cards and can make you win out of nowhere. It's pointless to have a singleton restriction if your deck can contain some wildcards (great analogy)that for 1-2 mana can be everything else. If you need to tutor that bad, you still have diabolic tutor

Quote from Macabre »

My complaint here is that an average budget green/blue ramp deck can typically outperform an optimal non-green non-combo deck.

Your problem then is with the non-combo part, not the ramp part. A jank combo deck can easily crush jank aggro/control decks without combo. A jank ramp deck that goes through combat isn't anything exceptional.
And guess what? Combo is the archetype that get helped the most by tutors. By a really wide margin. If your thesis is that rampant growth and similar ramps help a combo more than demonic tutor... well, does that really need an answer?
And still, talking about rampant growth and cultivate and so on like they are big boogeymans while every deck has access to sol ring, mana crypt and mana vault is kinda laughable too.

[quote from="Macabre »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/813822-beating-a-dead-horse-tutors-in-commander?comment=11"Mass land-ramp decks tend to plaque casual tables and green/blue/x casual ramp decks are, imo, the worst. I have a typical ramp bant deck and it feels like every win was never deserved. I honestly feel that they are the catalyst for most issues in the format. To answer a deck that can consistently put 8 lands into play around turn 5 to 6, you have to make a quicker deck full of fast mana (which people complain about), and a fast combo win (which people complain about), and the tutors to get these parts (which people complain about).[/quote]

Or maybe people play noncompetitive commander to enjoy that ramp and battlecruiser playstyle that sucks everywhere else?
To stop a deck with 8 lands that isn't comboing out but need to go through combat you just need a murder.
Your argoment seems really biased, considering that it started with comparing a card banned and restricted almost everywhere to... rampant growth, which is ***** even in pauper

Is the multi-headed turtle an arturian trope i don't kniow about? It's already the second of the set

Three Little Pigs is nice but sadly overcosted...

Quote from lookingupanddown »

5 damage? That's a huge pheasant.

Yeah but weirdly it only makes one food

Quote from Manite »

Charming Prince + Frogify + True Love's Kiss = FLAVOR

Yeah, but it's also a big noob move

Quote from DJK3654 »

Get together a few gingerbread men so I can bring my mighty Feasting Troll King back from the dead.
This set is fun.

I really hope there are more food creatures

Quote from Manite »

Now, where's our Merlin?

Chulane?