With the list above, Bellower nets you access to Removal, Recursion, and Ramp (with the addition of Bloom Tender, next turn accel?). The only time I can see him being hugely beneficial is if you're desperate for removal, but with Beast Within, Sage, Sliver, Acidic Slime, Terastodon, and counter magic, I see the added redundancy for removal to be mediocre at best. The only time I could truly see him being worthwhile is if time magic were in grave and he netted you Eternal Witness to re-cast, but at that point you would still need a recursive loop through means of a sac outlet and sun titan maybe.
I truly think there are many better options for the list.
Received a Noble Hierarch the other day, and curious what people are thinking on its trajectory. It was reprinted within recent years, but unsure if I should hold onto it, or move it along. Thoughts?
Just received a Noble Hierarch the other day. I'm still sold for now, even if I have to wait a few weeks to get some thing I want. I'm sitting on $2,000 in wants, so there's plenty of things for people to send as long as I have points.
Tragic Arrogance is great, in my opinion. I like its ability to select which permanents they get to keep and it makes them sacrifice, which is a great way to get around Gods or indestructible and it lets you choose, which makes this a blowout more times than not. Choosing gets around hexproof/shroud because it isn't targetting. It's like Council's Judgment, but you get to pull all the strings. Honestly, this is one of the best board wipes we have access to, up there with Austere Command for its modular, often asymmetrical options and Supreme Verdict (if only for the uncounterable clause). Obviously Oblivion Stone is up here as well. For me, it is probably above Verdict and slightly over O-Stone and about on par with Austere.
That's a pretty raving review, maybe I'll give it another chance. I've really been digging Hallowed Burial in the list, but obviously it's a bit more limited than Tragic Arrogance in scope, but at least it resets the creature front. Albeit, in a more competitive meta I suppose I'll have more to worry about than creatures.
Finally finished remaking my old Jenara deck from back when ISB's primer rolled around. I'm actually having trouble, albeit primarily in 1v1, against a fairly well tuned Meren of Clan Nel Toth deck. Without having any infinite combos in my deck, I've been finding it challenging keeping up with Meren's constant advantage from the abuse of 1-3 creatures until Meren is ready to Mike & Trike. If the player gets access to something that can 1. Kill a creature, 2. Kill an artifact / enchantment, and 3. prevent combat damage, they can usually stall long enough to keep me from getting online.
I've been trying to think about how I can fix this, and with that I'll make some notes in regards to the primer.
First things first, I've been out of the game for a while. I make my fair share of mistakes, and I don't deserve to win much yet.
Secondly, I don't want to run meta cards. I want to be able to port this deck from A to B without making any changes.
On to card choices. Against Meren, being able to surprise eradicate a graveyard is becoming critically important. Scavenging Ooze and Tormod's Crypt are great at what they do, but once they're on the battlefield they're easy enough to play around until you can destroy them. I'm not entirely sure what the answer is yet, but I'm working on it. Perhaps the Stonecloaker in the primer would be useful for exactly this reason. Plus it would allow bouncing of another ETB effect, I'm considering this may be a fairly worthwhile addition.
How have Mystical Tutor and Enlightened Tutor been working for you? I can totally see Enlightened being a fine addition, since most of our artifacts and enchantments make up for the card disadvantage that these tutors provide. Mystical seems a little iffy on the other hand.
How has Tragic Arrogance played for you? I ran it briefly in another deck that I eventually took apart, and I found I was in between on whether or not I liked it.
On the other hand, I've slowly been transitioning to use Derevi, Empyrial Tactician for his great synergy with everything. Only a few cards thus far are stax / hatebear componenets, and being able to pod two to three times in a turn is pretty awesome. With Bloom Tender and Deadeye Navigator that would be infinite mana, and I can tap down opponents during their upkeep. Plus I'm feeling the need to get mean.
I've tried building a deck that focuses on Shu Yun a couple of times and have had the same problem. Instead I built a deck based on a friend's Medomai deck which focused on the attack step. If you put in creatures that benefit from doublestrike and enough non-creature spells to trigger Shu Yun it works pretty well. Here's the list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/shu-yun-attack-step-edh/ The creature load is light but powerful and there is enough control to get there. Also includes my favorite 3 card combo: Turnabout, Reiterate and Lightning Bolt
This sounds like something I'd be interested in. I'll make some changes and report back.
I would take out some sorceries and most of your creatures and replace them with more creatures with prowess.
I agree and I disagree. Medomai is pretty nuts with double strike, but I can get behind Walking Atlas and Iroas. I think most of the pump sorceries should go.
On the creatures with prowess however, most of them are just straight beaters. There are maybe two or three that offer me more than just being creatures that get bigger as I cast spells, which the deck isn't fully suited for at the moment.
Since it makes a copy of the spell, that you can "cast" instead on just creating a copy direct on the stack. :3
With an imprinted Ponder you get each turn a Card for 2 mana and a Trigger for your General and all prowess creatures ^.^
Good call on the isochron. It will likely get a spot.
Hey all! I'm hoping you can help with direction of this deck. This morphed from an old version of BobTheFunny's T&L Spellslinger voltron / storm deck, and with just two colors I felt as though I was pretty easily able to dedicate slots to either win condition. However, with the addition of W I've felt as though the deck has lost a bit of focus.
Honestly, a red zone general is exactly what I want for this deck. The old T&L list required more math than I feel like doing anymore, the turns were always long and boring for my opponents, which ultimately made me feel bad that they were just watching me have fun. So! On to the problem.
The good news:
- I usually have enough gas to wipe out an opponent, sometimes two whilst protecting the general.
The bad news:
- If there's a third opponent, there's seldom enough steam to end it.
- Will usually draw out games without actually doing something if it goes to mid / late.
- Way too reliant on the general.
- Not many answers, which is fine if we're constantly applying pressure.
Thus I ask, what can I do to resolve these problems? Step 1 I believe would be to remove most of the non synergistic storm pieces.
A sword or two would be nice here due to the doublestrike (Sword of War and Peace would do massive damage early game) and help with evasion, but I only have so many swords. But I don't know how to reduce the reliance on the general while not including many creatures. Since tutoring for creatures is difficult in these colors, relying on getting in VIA combat damage from another creature isn't the easiest. Suggestions?!
I've been having fun with my Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest deck, but I'm looking to up the consistency. Beating face with him requires a decent mana investment, which makes him susceptible to spot removal unless I'm holding counter magic. Moreover, the primary win con is the general. Re-casting him 4-5 times is not something that the deck can easily handle. I'm looking for suggestions of disruption that meets one or the other criteria that I may have missed:
1. Protect against spot removal / counter magic.. However, since I'm in blue, I don't want to hinder myself from playing counter magic. Ex: War's Toll Grand Abolisher
2. Make life hard for creature based decks. There's only 5 creatures, which makes it hard to have decent blockers. Wrath's are great and all, but I'm looking to buy myself some time for a few turns, rather than wipe the board repeatedly. Pendrell Mists Overburden
As for scourge of the throne and moltensteel dragon imagining you were at 40 life and suicidal, you can pay 38 life to bring him up to 23/23 and the scourge would dethrone for 6, dealing a total of 29 damage, but now you can deal 29 to each opponent in a pod of 4 or use the second attack phase to finish someone, hardly a game ender since at 2 life you won't live another turn, realistically. This would only end a game in a duel I guess.
Thanks for explaining where I am mistaken, kind regards.
As far as a win con, you're right. But Molstensteel allows you to easily control your life total to not be the person with the most life at the table, essentially guaranteeing you another combat step.
I've been dwelling on this for over a week now, and I'm trying to find some reliable ways to protect against potential disruption. Defense Grid is the only thing I can come up with in mono-red.
I guess I'm sorta trying to go for Gaka's old Griselbrand list. The main problem is that I don't have ways to interact with my opponents' answers, nor do I have the sheer volume of redundancy that the Griselbrand build had.
Ultimately, I think MightyPox's list is the most optimal, since it sacrifices potential explosiveness for some much-needed consistency. It's difficult to strike the right balance between the two, since the card slots that go toward one strategy tend to interfere with the other, making both of them worse as a result.
It's really hard to do aggro in EDH without green. I've tried mono-red, rakdos, kaalia, and (if you want a real redzone deck and not a land destruction/control deck) I just can't get them to perform anywhere near as well as a rampy green deck.
If you're ok with Bant, Jenara, Asura of War isn't a bad choice, and she'll give you access to manadorks, the good green/white hatebears, the stoneforge/equipment package, and the blue tempo essentials
I think I'm going to try and assemble a bit of a knowledge base on the subject. But I think you're right, the colors that are usually great in aggro (White/Red) just don't have the card advantage to knock out several players life totals before the game ends.
You guys are right that it would likely be neigh impossible to keep up with tier 1 decks, so maybe let's make it a little less competitive. What might be the best aggro options available? Thanks for the input thus far.
Has anything changed in the last year since a similar question was asked? It's been a while since I've been around, and I'm trying to put together a new list.
Looking for competitive generals that can hold their own against Tier 2 Commanders, or possibly take on a Tier 1 list. Suggestions?
Anything Bant Edric, Spymaster of Tres Talrand, Sky Summoner
I truly think there are many better options for the list.
That's a pretty raving review, maybe I'll give it another chance. I've really been digging Hallowed Burial in the list, but obviously it's a bit more limited than Tragic Arrogance in scope, but at least it resets the creature front. Albeit, in a more competitive meta I suppose I'll have more to worry about than creatures.
I've been trying to think about how I can fix this, and with that I'll make some notes in regards to the primer.
First things first, I've been out of the game for a while. I make my fair share of mistakes, and I don't deserve to win much yet.
Secondly, I don't want to run meta cards. I want to be able to port this deck from A to B without making any changes.
On to card choices. Against Meren, being able to surprise eradicate a graveyard is becoming critically important. Scavenging Ooze and Tormod's Crypt are great at what they do, but once they're on the battlefield they're easy enough to play around until you can destroy them. I'm not entirely sure what the answer is yet, but I'm working on it. Perhaps the Stonecloaker in the primer would be useful for exactly this reason. Plus it would allow bouncing of another ETB effect, I'm considering this may be a fairly worthwhile addition.
How have Mystical Tutor and Enlightened Tutor been working for you? I can totally see Enlightened being a fine addition, since most of our artifacts and enchantments make up for the card disadvantage that these tutors provide. Mystical seems a little iffy on the other hand.
How has Tragic Arrogance played for you? I ran it briefly in another deck that I eventually took apart, and I found I was in between on whether or not I liked it.
Ixidron 4 lyfe
----
On the other hand, I've slowly been transitioning to use Derevi, Empyrial Tactician for his great synergy with everything. Only a few cards thus far are stax / hatebear componenets, and being able to pod two to three times in a turn is pretty awesome. With Bloom Tender and Deadeye Navigator that would be infinite mana, and I can tap down opponents during their upkeep. Plus I'm feeling the need to get mean.
This sounds like something I'd be interested in. I'll make some changes and report back.
I agree and I disagree. Medomai is pretty nuts with double strike, but I can get behind Walking Atlas and Iroas. I think most of the pump sorceries should go.
On the creatures with prowess however, most of them are just straight beaters. There are maybe two or three that offer me more than just being creatures that get bigger as I cast spells, which the deck isn't fully suited for at the moment.
Good call on the isochron. It will likely get a spot.
Honestly, a red zone general is exactly what I want for this deck. The old T&L list required more math than I feel like doing anymore, the turns were always long and boring for my opponents, which ultimately made me feel bad that they were just watching me have fun. So! On to the problem.
The good news:
- I usually have enough gas to wipe out an opponent, sometimes two whilst protecting the general.
The bad news:
- If there's a third opponent, there's seldom enough steam to end it.
- Will usually draw out games without actually doing something if it goes to mid / late.
- Way too reliant on the general.
- Not many answers, which is fine if we're constantly applying pressure.
Thus I ask, what can I do to resolve these problems? Step 1 I believe would be to remove most of the non synergistic storm pieces.
A sword or two would be nice here due to the doublestrike (Sword of War and Peace would do massive damage early game) and help with evasion, but I only have so many swords. But I don't know how to reduce the reliance on the general while not including many creatures. Since tutoring for creatures is difficult in these colors, relying on getting in VIA combat damage from another creature isn't the easiest. Suggestions?!
1x Arcane Denial
1x Boros Charm
1x Brainstorm
1x Brute Strength
1x Counterspell
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Dig Through Time
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Frantic Search
1x Ghostly Flicker
1x Impulse
1x Oona's Grace
1x Overblaze
1x Render Silent
1x Shadow Rift
1x Snap
1x Stubborn Denial
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Turnabout
1x Valorous Stance
1x Aqueous Form
1x Jeskai Ascendancy
1x Rhystic Study
1x Spirit Mantle
Sorcery (19)
1x Artful Dodge
1x Deep Analysis
1x Distortion Strike
1x Flame Jab
1x Hidden Strings
1x Ignite Memories
1x Mizzix's Mastery
1x Pieces of the Puzzle
1x Ponder
1x Quiet Speculation
1x Reckless Charge
1x Recoup
1x Seize the Day
1x Slip Through Space
1x Spelltwine
1x Temporal Trespass
1x Tragic Arrogance
1x Waves of Aggression
1x Windfall
1x Grand Abolisher
1x Iroas, God of Victory
1x Medomai the Ageless
1x Thassa, God of the Sea
1x Walking Atlas
Planeswalker (3)
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Narset Transcendent
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
Commander
1x Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
Thanks for the suggestions all, I have a decent sized list of things to sort through for my next iteration.
1. Protect against spot removal / counter magic.. However, since I'm in blue, I don't want to hinder myself from playing counter magic. Ex:
War's Toll
Grand Abolisher
2. Make life hard for creature based decks. There's only 5 creatures, which makes it hard to have decent blockers. Wrath's are great and all, but I'm looking to buy myself some time for a few turns, rather than wipe the board repeatedly.
Pendrell Mists
Overburden
Thoughts?!
As far as a win con, you're right. But Molstensteel allows you to easily control your life total to not be the person with the most life at the table, essentially guaranteeing you another combat step.
Stranglehold is good disruption, but not prevention.
Price of Glory
War's Toll
Full?! There's only four options, and three are green!
I think I'm going to try and assemble a bit of a knowledge base on the subject. But I think you're right, the colors that are usually great in aggro (White/Red) just don't have the card advantage to knock out several players life totals before the game ends.
I dig it. Good call!
Looking for competitive generals that can hold their own against Tier 2 Commanders, or possibly take on a Tier 1 list. Suggestions?
Anything Bant
Edric, Spymaster of Tres
Talrand, Sky Summoner