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  • posted a message on The vanilla Challenge
    How many creatures does it take to not defeat the purpose?

    I think the hard thing about this kind of challenge is that your best deck will always be the one that basically ignores the creatures and treats them as blanks. So you have to set some strict requirements for the sorts of things you're allowed to do.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card Discussion
    Everdream is some spicy, spicy goodness for Phelddagrif. It's gonna take a long time to do the updates for this set. We got new lands, new removal, new counters, new value engines...we've really got it all. Couldn't be happier as far as my hippo master is concerned.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What is the point of singleton?
    Sure, there are many similar effects, but in most cases they are different. There aren't all that many functional reprints. A game with lightning bolt could play out differently because it costs 1 less than incinerate. Or maybe incenerate could kill a creature that would be able to regenerate against a lightning bolt. Small variance, but variance nonetheless.

    Also, while decks can have a preponderance of similar stuff in them - there are loads of 2-mana ramp spells/artifacts, for example - things could be MUCH more consistent under a 4-of system. Can you imagine 4x demonic tutor 4x vampiric tutor 4x imperial seal in a combo deck that's also running 4x of their combo pieces? Sounds...gross. Not to mention mana crypt and sol ring, bleurgh.

    There's also not much reason NOT to. 4x always felt arbitrary to me. Other games have 3x (yugioh) or 2x (hearthstone, except legendaries which are 1x) 1x feels like a more natural limitation. Ofc that's just my preference.

    It also keeps things cheaper, which I like. Don't need to shell out for 4 of each fetchland if you can only run 1 of each. Not a big deal, but it does keep the format feeling more open.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card Discussion
    Quote from FearDReaper »
    Do you think he's a good commander, or better off in 99 of something like Sidisi, Brood Tyrant?
    Hard to see anything that's just a fat beater being a great commander tbh.

    I think my favorite place for him would probably be something like Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, which can take advantage of his recastability, and get more value from his high power than simply swinging at once person at a time. Having a sac outlet in the CZ also reduces the risk of him getting exiled. Also Sidisi is also probably a reasonable spot since she fuels graves and makes tokens. I just don't see her having as much need of a big fat dummy.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card Discussion
    Quote from Hermes_ »
    how will command tax work with Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis?
    Pretty sure it's how you'd expect. Gotta delve 2 deeper or tap 2 more creatures (or 1 and 1).

    Of course it won't matter much since he'll usually be cast from the grave unless he gets exiled somehow.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [Oathbreaker] wrenn and six (competitive?)
    Maybe I'm misreading you, but it seems like you're thinking you can pick the same mode twice for atarka's command. Which unfortunately you can't do.

    I don't think this is planning to be a huge mana deck. Like we're probably not getting to more than 12 mana very often. Our biggest tempo advantage will be turn 3-4 when we have 7+ and everyone else has 3-5. That's when we need to take maximum advantage by playing something devastating before our opponents can deal with it.

    So I don't think rolling thunder is going to make sense. It's pretty low-impact as a 7-drop.
    Posted in: Variant Commander
  • posted a message on [Oathbreaker] wrenn and six (competitive?)
    Man, I can't believe no one else is as sold on summer bloom as I am. I mean, tutoring 3-4 lands to hand is neat and all (you'll have to discard a lot of them anyway, though), but compared to having nearly-guaranteed 7+ lands on turn 3 or 4? It seems like a fine value plan, but the opportunity to have such an explosive start seems way more valuable to me. Idk, testing is required I suppose.

    All someone has to do is play a 5+ health minion (well, maybe 6+ because of wrenn's ping) and that gets around punishing fire. Or, since you have multiple opponents, they could just all drop creatures at once and you'll never be able to kill them all. Not to mention, with 3 opponents you're handing out 3 life every time you tap your land.

    I really have a hard time imagining it scaling well. Compared to legacy...

    We get 1/4 as many groves (which is less relevant if we have a tutor in the CZ, but it still means we only get one naturally and have to use copying for any others)
    We get 1/4 as many punishing fires, which we have almost no way to tutor for and no way to copy that I'm aware of
    We have 3x as many opponents, making lifegain from grove 3x worse
    We have 3x as much enemy life to burn down
    We have 3x as many opponents creatures to control

    It just seems so much worse, in so many ways, that I can't imagine it'll perform at all the same. Maybe it's still worth including, but I really doubt it'll be a critical centerpiece of the deck or anything.
    Posted in: Variant Commander
  • posted a message on [Oathbreaker] wrenn and six (competitive?)
    Quote from 3drinks »
    Think your best win con here is gonna be punishing grove tbh. Seems the most compact and hard to interact with outside of 'Yard hate, which you can play around.
    I did see that when I was perusing lands decklists for ideas, so I thought about it a little.

    I guess it must have some validity since it sees competitive play there, but considering they're both 1-ofs I think that cuts down the effectiveness considerably. It's really hard to draw both, since we probably aren't running any land tutors and instant tutors hardly exist. It's also much slower to kill an entire table instead of just 1 opponent. In fact it's pretty counterproductive as a kill tool since you're probably healing a total of more than 2 life every time you tap the land. I guess you still win eventually because you focus down one person at a time, but it'd take ages to kill 3 players on its own. With lands you can recur multiple punishing fires with each activation, and do it repeatedly with multiple groves, but that's not really an option here (I mean, we can copy groves with vesuva and such).

    I think at best it's a control tool, not a wincon. And I'd be a lot more likely to use it in a version around crop rotation, since at least then you only need to luck into drawing one of the pieces to put the combo together.
    Posted in: Variant Commander
  • posted a message on Where to go, after MtGSalvation?
    Hearthpwn is also closing down. Another community acquired by Fandom. As are minecraft forums, diablofans, and arenajunkies, apparently.

    Y'know, Fandom: "Where fans come first" How Suspicious... Not cynical corporate raiding, oh no. It's all about the faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaans.

    Time to get liquored up.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Where to go, after MtGSalvation?
    My LGS just announced it was closing yesterday. This is one hell of a bad week for magic (for me).

    I'll try to remain cautiously optimistic. We've got a good commander group that meets at a pub, and still one (less good) store in town. And I'm trying to get some cube drafts together. Hopefully this place will be able to migrate to safer pastures as well.

    Ugh. Goddamn capitalism sometimes, I swear.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [Oathbreaker] wrenn and six (competitive?)
    Quote from Reaper9889 »
    I am unsure how well this would work. Like, you would need say 8 lands for the big bombs like eldrazi (more really I guess).
    If the first few bombs gets blown up in various ways (which I would expect in competive play - stp say), then the number of lands you are playing over everybody else will hurt a lot.

    I guess you can try for some mana denial as you said, but say that you drop a red mass ld turn 4 or so (I assume you need to do something by turn 4 to have a chance in this format). Now, everybody needs to rebuild and wrenn helps you here, but you need to get to 4 mana (at least) to play summer bloom again, since it was likely played once before. At that point, I guess you can ultimate wreen and do the mass ld every 6th turn. That would be devasting, but if someone went for you and kept their lands back the first time, he likely could kill you between turn 4 and 10. Also, you need to win somehow.
    Besides that, I am not sure if turn 4 reset is fast enough. It could be, but I am not certain. I could easily see this format becoming faster than that.

    On the other hand, you could do mana denial that does not hurt someone with a lot of lands. I think that would be rare, like ruination,bloodmoon and magus of the moon, if you are focusing on basics and the usual stax cards like Smokestack, Tangle Wire, Trinisphere, Lodestone Golem, Sphere of Resistance and The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, but apart from these?
    I wouldn't be running (probably) full resets, but sac-based resets like wildfire. That way I always have some lands left, while the other players have few or none, while also clearing out the creatures. Summer bloom shouldn't need to be played really after T2-3, but it might help occasionally.

    Also the deck can use cycling lands to draw a ton of cards and offset the downside of having a high density of lands. And most threats the deck is likely to run with either have powerful cast/etb effects (avenger of zendikar, eldrazi titans), be instant/sorceries (wildfire, rites of ruin), or be difficult to kill (karn, ugin). That's kind of how tron works, which is what we're basically emulating.

    Could I still get shut down if people counter/kill everything I play? I mean sure, obviously, what do you expect? No deck can reliably win when getting focused by multiple strong control decks. But they better have the right answers at the right time, or they're getting knocked out fast.
    Quote from schweinefett »
    Actually, i thought the mana denial package would include some number of stax effects like reaper9889 says. you forgot 3ball, by the way. that basically locks out players if they're always on 0-2 lands.

    could you run a sneaky seismic assault as a wincon? or lightning storm? especially if you've got retrace on, you can quite easily cast it every turn after a while.

    also, is there an argument for atarka's command as the sig instead? sure you're stuck on playing 2 lands instead, but the flexibility of stopping someone's aetherflux reservoir combo, or as reach at the end of the game seems useful too.
    Trinisphere and co could be interesting. The only thing I don't like is that it doesn't really work as a threat, and doesn't catch us back up if our opponents deployed aggressively to the board on T1-2. Not sure on the assault or lightning storm. I think probably we'd rather play more mana-intensive spells with greater impacts.

    Atarka's command I really can't see. The other modes are all way too niche. We run few creatures, lifegain stoppage is very niche(is reservoir even a good wincon in a 20-life format? I mean maybe for storm specifically but otherwise I think not), and bolting face is not our jam at all. Meanwhile getting 1 land instead of 3 means we're playing rampant growth instead of gilded lotus on turn 2. waaaaaaaaay less exciting.
    Posted in: Variant Commander
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card Discussion
    Quote from cyberium_neo »


    Or, true to being red, a card at random?
    Oooh, I like how you think. That is a pretty reasonable guess. Although then I think they have to put the confusing fossil find text on there.

    EDIT: actually, looks like they've not done that on any cards recently. I guess you just need to be really careful when playing grave-order-matters cards alongside stuff like charmbreaker devils and kheru lich lord. Make a wish is even basically identical to fossil find except for the grave reorder text.

    Remind me never to play corpse dance alongside those cards, sounds like a nightmare.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card Discussion
    Quote from umtiger »
    To stay on theme, these recur-to-the-top lands have to recur a different permanent-type. Volrath's Stronghold (creature) came out in 1998, Academy Ruins (artifacts) in 2006, and this one (enchantments) in 2019. So it's going to be a long time before they come out with the green one for lands. Over/Under at another 8 years?

    They might even have a new permanent type by then for red to recur? Or it could get a subtype (e.g. Legendary, snow?)
    Legendary would be interesting. Basically planeswalkers+++. Could recur legendary sorceries even...could get kinda gross.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [Oathbreaker] wrenn and six (competitive?)
    Yep, titan is banned apparently.

    I don't think there's enough mana denial to go all-in on it. I think I'm planning to have a combo of mana denial and tron-style wincons like karn1.0, ugin1.0, maybe some eldrazi.

    Posted in: Variant Commander
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Lifeblood Hydra
    Quote from tstorm823 »
    Bloodfire Infusion


    I'm confident this card has decks that it belongs in. A board wipe that only works when you have the biggest things seems a bit wonky, but there's definitely a deck out there that manufactures a situation where you want that.
    I know it kind of takes the fun out of it, but EDHrec makes answering this question very easy. Let's just look up bloodfire infusion, shall we?

    33 decks, with the only commander of note being valduk, keeper of the flame. It seems...mostly pretty mediocre there, but it's probably the best you're going to do.
    Quote from 3drinks »
    DirkGently and I on the same page. Hello Hell, have you froze over yet? haha.
    Was thinking the same thing as I wrote it, lol.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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