Magic Market Index for Feb 8th, 2018
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  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Chandra Flamecaller
    Full credit, this is at least an assist card that someone might help you cast. Same can't be said for most of them, barring an "everyone gang up on X to the max" situation. play of the game and out of bounds are more fun, though.

    I hate wheels, though. Especially in blue. I think people see the upside of getting a hand refill for a low cost and don't make the connections about the cards their opponents have drawn that might give them the win. For red at least I get it, you don't have a lot of strong draw tools so you take what you can get. For blue though, naw. I've got a timetwister. I've cast it...once? $300 well spent :p Actually, given how much the price has risen, it kinda was, I guess.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength
    Ideally you'd have more fixing lands and fewer basics, making fixers like steve unnecessary (and there are plenty of cheap fixers like the karoos, you don't need fetches and duals). Also it only fixes if you have green already, which is the least important and least represented color, so the one you're least likely to have when you're trying to fix your mana. So it doesn't make a lot of sense as a fixer.

    If you want to neutralize narset, short of repeatedly countering her you'll need detection tower or arcane lighthouse. Those are worth including for sure, at least one, and ideally a tutor or two too. Then make sure you get arch of orazca as another tutor target, because it's the best thing since sliced bread.

    I still think 3 is too many neutralizers. Even if the commanders are scary, at the end of the day you're only going 1v1 against one of them. Your goal should not be to neutralize multiple enemy commanders at once - neutralizing someone's commander in a permanent-ish way will almost certainly make them want to kill you a lot more, so putting multiple people in that situation is pretty antithetical to what we're doing. Once it's 1v1, neutralize to your heart's content, of course.

    I could see using multiple neutralization removals IF and ONLY IF there are multiple commanders which are not only scary, but an instant-win combo all on their own - i.e. narset (which is already badly handled by neutralizers unless you have that land) or new jhoira. In that case you might have no choice but to neutralize multiple commanders because otherwise you'd have to kill or counter them every time they come down. But that's really unlikely, most commanders that combo can be disrupted by removing other parts of their combo.

    I think you might have too many draw spells btw. Harmonize, for example, is pretty weak. It's just color-shifted concentrate. If you want more single-shot draw I'd focus more on instants, paying 1 more for precognitive perception, whether as an instant or a sorcery, is a better deal.

    Ok, so Conqueror's Galleon.

    I think galleon is kind of a litmus test for playing the deck. Because it's absolutely a powerful card. And it can absolutely win you games. When I was running it (in multiple decks) it frequently became "ok, well, the right play here is to recur this board wipe...again...and then destroy all your stuff...again...and then I have to replay my commander so I can eventually end this game..."

    It slows the game down to a crawl, basically, a miserable crawl with all the focus on you, where you're going to win but it's going to take forever, and at the end people will not be thinking "huh, how weird, that game had so many powerful nasty things happening, but at the end it came down to just a derpy hippo beating face after doing nothing much all game, isn't commander funny?" No, they'll be thinking "Well, that Phelddagrif deck LOOKS innocent enough, but eventually it's going to pull off some lockdown combo so you'd better smash it when you've got half a chance."

    So Conqueror's galleon is a sweet card, but it's not a card that fits with what we're trying to do. It's a card that fits into a normal control deck, one that's fine with becoming the threat and intends to do so when trying to win the game. Our goal is to avoid ever being the threat, right up until the game is over. Ideally, even when it's 1v1, your opponent should look like the favorite to an outside observer. Otherwise our opponents won't want to get into a 1v1 against you, and might try to eliminate you before the 1v1 game.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your Strength
    Sure, I can give your list a quick look.

    Dispel is debatable. Not definitely wrong, but I'd only include it if you're in a pretty heavy counterspell meta where you'll have to win a counter war to block someone's wincon. If that's you, though, go ahead and keep it in. If it's not, though, I usually prefer more flexibility in my counters.

    If I was going to use a second fog after moment's peace, it'd be either tangle or teferi's protection, not fog. The low mana cost isn't super important, more value is better.

    spell burst is really bad in most circumstances, and when it's good it's kind of a nasty lock, at least on low-cmc spells, that could easily drive people to attack you. Not the sort of attention we want, for the same reason we don't play forbid, although at least forbid is a cancel at worst.

    Turn to frog is too combat-dependent imo. If you try to block the creature they could just use removal on phelddagrif and force a bounce, and then their creature lives. I'd put in something more reliable, like crib swap for example.

    Hushwing Gryff is double trouble. It's a creature so our board wipes will kill it, it can absorb removal that we'd rather was pointed at our opponents, and even if it survives it's creating a scenario where your opponents may be motivated to kill you to prevent it impeding their plans in an ongoing way. I'd cut it in an instant.

    Mystic Snake is a pretty weak counter imo since it's overcosted by 2 for a body we don't need and can't really use outside of chump blocking. It's not terrible or anything but I'd prefer something else, personally.

    Selfless Squire is a fun card but I don't think I'd use it. Again, it gives a target for removal when we'd normally present none. Not terrible but 3 fogs is too many imo.

    Sakura-tribe Elder I spend a bit of space in the guide on ramp - we don't really need it. We aren't ramping TO anything. One land per turn is plenty. As such, steve doesn't have much of a role in the deck. Doubly so for cultivate, Rampant Growth, and Kodama's Reach. Cut them all and add more lands instead. 38 is too few imo, I like over 40 myself but 40 would be as low as I'd go in most metas.

    Conqueror's Galleon I've experimented with and found it to be too threatening for what we're trying to do.

    Steel of the Godhead is pretty random. Doesn't make much sense for the deck - Phelddagrif is great, in part, because he can bounce to hand so easily. Strapping him up with auras kind of negates this benefit - and anyway, it doesn't do anything useful for us. If you want lifegain, run pulse of the fields or sphinx's revelation.

    I also don't think you need 3 neutralization removals (narco, lignify, deep freeze). Usually you need none. They're totally unnecessary. You should try to steer the game in such a way that you'll be 1v1ing the opponent who you can most easily handle, which shouldn't necessitate the use of such a card. BUT in some games you don't have full control of the game, or maybe the weakest deck has a commander that's hard to handle despite the rest of the deck being weaker. For commanders that either generate enormous value if left in play for any length of time (i.e. mayael) or who generate enormous value even when countered or removed by normal means (i.e. maelstrom wanderer). In those cases, neutralizing the commander in a permanent way can be the only way to keep control of the game long enough to win. That said, the neutralizers you've got already are weak because they leave the target as a (non-indestructible) creature so your board wipes will put their commander back in the command zone. So maybe you need 3 to be able to keep it locked down, idk. But I'd try to at least cut 1.

    Land-wise I'd cut treva's ruins and reliquary tower. Reliquary tower I talk about in the guide so read that. Trevas is just bad imo. We want to play a land almost every turn. Setting ourselves back just for fixing is bad news. I like the karoo lands from ravnica block, though. They work just fine since they don't slow us down long-term and they give us a free extra card/mana.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Most fun commander?
    In my experience commander players are more, uh, casual than those playing other formats. As such they're more likely to hold onto the fallacy that mill is making their deck worse and get mad that you're removing all their favorite cards.

    As a result mill is even worse than it already is, in a format with lots of recursion and the inability to piggyback off other players' efforts in the way you might collaboratively kill someone with damage (unless there's another mill player, of course). Plus it's "less fun" since you're milling the cards they wanted to draw (as per the fallacy).

    Zedruu can be strong. Can also be a nasty stax build. I don't think my build was fun for my opponents, but there's probably some build that would be. I think her natural strengths are towards staxxy control though.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Most fun commander?
    Quote from MRdown2urth »
    Group hug?
    How do I downvote a post? I'd like to downvote a post please.

    For me I think the most fun of my 90+ decks to play has been Kaervek (Read the thread in my sig if you want the details about HOW it makes things fun). If you don't want to do weird political stuff, though, then my next suggestion would be zirilan.

    Phelddagrif is my favorite deck but, if I'm being honest, by the end of most games everyone else is exhausted and wants it to end. 3 hours is a short game for Phelddy.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Help Rank the Curses!
    you have a ton of duplicates. Anyway just for fun:

    Cruel Reality - 1
    Curse of Bloodletting - 2
    Curse of Bounty - 3
    Curse of Chaos - 4
    Curse of Death's Hold - 2
    Curse of Disturbance - 4
    Curse of Echoes - 2
    Curse of Exhaustion - 2-3
    Curse of Inertia - 4
    Curse of Misfortunes - N/A
    Curse of Oblivion - 4
    Curse of Opulence - 4
    Curse of Predation - 2-3
    Curse of Shallow Graves - 4
    Curse of Stalked Prey - 3
    Curse of the Bloody Tome - 4
    Curse of the Forsaken - 4
    Curse of the Nightly Hunt - 3
    Curse of the Pierced Heart - 4
    Curse of Thirst - 3? (kinda depends how the curses work)
    Curse of Vengeance - 4
    Curse of Verbosity - 3
    Curse of Vitality - 4 (god white got the shaft so hard on these curse cycles holy crap)
    Fraying Sanity - 4
    Infectious Curse - 4
    Overwhelming Splendor - 0 (this curse is so nasty it's kind of hard to put it on the same scale as the others)
    Torment of Scarabs - 2
    Trespasser's Curse - 4
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Help Rank the Curses!
    how does "you" work (i.e. for curse of vengeance) if the cards are getting pulled from some deck in the middle of the table?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on EDH taking too long
    Best deck I've built for engendering strife and making games go quickly is my kaervek build. Everyone starts using kaervek to kill each other, it's great.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on I need suggestions for an agro deck...
    Dual lands and the legal moxen are all less powerful than the sol ring every schlub is running but ok.

    Are you playing 1v1? Aggro isn't generally very good in multiplayer.

    Anyway seems pretty simple, I'd just make a non-combo control deck. There are tons of ways to win without going infinite.

    EDIT: hell, you've already got derevi in your sig. Just make a derevi stax deck. Preeetty simple.

    Also, maybe I'm missing something, but your decks don't look anything close to pauper. I'm seeing survival of the fittest, tooth and nail, gaea's cradle, and (wow shocker) a bunch of moxen. So I'm really confused how you're pulling the victim card on this situation. Not that combo is necessarily evil (it's not evil - it's just boring) but your characterization of this disagreement seems absurd to me, given the power level of your decks. I can totally see why someone playing an aggro deck would find your decks annoying to play against, because he'd almost certainly be at a huge disadvantage.

    EDIT EDIT: Ok, glissa is pauper (sort of, pretty sure you're supposed to use an uncommon commander for PDH unless they've changed the rules recently but w/e). But given that one doesn't have any serious combos I'm pretty sure that's not that one he's complaining about. And all your other lists are pretty competitive looking and even partially foiled.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on How to carry your decks
    I appreciate the input, but fifteen is waaay more decks than I'd ever have together at a time. With a few more permanent exceptions, my decks only stay together for a few weeks until I disassemble them and build something else.

    I also don't think I want a standalone case for mtg. I bring my laptop and other stuff with me often enough that I think it's best if my commander case is something that fits into a backpack rather than IS a pack itself. If it could be easily carried on its own that would be a bonus (i.e. the quiver , which I really like except that it doesn't hold a playmat).

    Right now I'm leaning toward the superhive even if it's a bit big. I've used ultimate guard for a few years and they make solid products from what I've seen. Hopefully the magnets aren't too big of a deal, tcc was fairly down on them.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on How to carry your decks
    Has anyone ever tried the scrollplay?

    I've always found it super annoying to carry a separate container for my playmat, but bigger boxes (like the superhive: seem bigger than what I actually need since I usually only have like 3 deck max I want to bring to any given thing. The design of the scrollplay seems cool but I can't find jack for reviews and it seems like the sort of thing that could be a total waste of money if the quality is off at all.

    Where's the prof when you need him? =/

    Or if anyone knows of another playmat + deckbox (+ dice?) combo that isn't enormous.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Are the lands that turn to creatures good
    Quote from Grisly_Bear »

    I don't understand your reasoning for this order.

    While Creeping Tar Pit is indisputably the best, Celestial Colonnade and Raging Ravine are significantly better than Hissing Quagmire, Lavaclaw Reaches, Needle Spires, Shambling Vent, and Stiring Wildwood. Repeatedly activating Raging Ravine isn't living the dream it's a thing to do when you don't have better options and it gets better every time. I also think users here are over rating the ability to hold a sword and not giving enough significance to the low opportunity cost of playing creature lands.
    I don't think it's very useful to look at the medium case for activating these lands. When I've played these lands, most games I never activate them. If I do activate them, it's usually because it's a particularly powerful time to do so. So I'm a lot more concerned with the ceiling than the floor. If the particular case is anywhere near the floor, it's probably not getting activated anyway.

    hissing quagmire is a land that can, some reasonable percent of the time, direct an enemy attack elsewhere, without even being activated, as long as you're holding mana up. Defense > offense in multiplayer. It might actually be the best. Ofc it's weaker in higher powered games that are less reliant on combat, but that's true of all of these.

    lavaclaw reaches has a very high ceiling in the form of being a tricky-to-set-up pseudo-volcanic geyser to knock someone out of the game. Also can kind of pull a hissing quagmire, but much worse since it requires a lot of mana to trade with a big creature.

    needle spires' ceiling is being able to double-trigger swords, jitte, etc. Otherwise it's quite bad. So that one is more deck dependent, I wouldn't run it without some sort of combat triggers or big pumps. RW is often doing that, though.

    shambling vent has synergy with some decks that care about lifegain, but also your own life is generally more valuable than enemy life in multiplayer, so having a land with a relative cheap activation that has some ability to keep you alive is, I think, superior to lands that are mostly offensive in a not-particularly-exciting way, such as ravine.

    Stirring wildwood is quite mediocre but it's cheap to activate and can chump block a lethal flyer if necessary. Definitely quite unexciting but I'd reiterate that I think defense > offense, so I'd take mediocre defense over slightly better offense like ravine, or possibly colonnade (colonnade can also block flyers in addition to be a decent attacker, though, so I rated it higher despite the higher activation to do so).

    If you've activated raging ravine more than once, then most likely either your deck is badly constructed or you've made a mistake. No good deck should reasonably expect to activate manlands repeatedly (arguable exceptions exist, i.e. tar pit is pretty ok in sygg, although that's still usually a last resort).

    I think you're giving too much credence to the efficacy of these lands in other formats where there are fewer opponents with less life. 5 mana for 4 damage is not a reasonable use of resources in a multiplayer format with 40 life. I'd rather have a land that will sometimes be quite good, even if it's usually dormant, because in most competent decks it will be dormant most of the time anyway. If it wants to get activated ever, it will be because sometimes it can be very good, not because it's consistently mediocre.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Are the lands that turn to creatures good
    Quote from WizardMN »
    Otherwise, I am with most of the other posters: creature lands in general are often not the greatest. On a budget, they can be decent but I don't think I would ever run one outside of a 1 or 2 color deck since 3+ color decks have better options.
    I think there are a decent number of reasons to run them.

    -if you're a 2 color deck that wants a lot of fixing (i.e. lazav, dimir mastermind), after you've already included the better fixers.
    -if you're running a decent number of equipment and/or light on creatures.
    -if you're in a color combo with one of the better ones - rb, gb, and rb all justify themselves imo.
    -if you're on a budget for fixing and want something decent, for the cheaper manlands (gw, rb, or any of the newer ones)
    -if you have some other synergy with your particular manland, i.e. lifegain synergy with wb.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Are the lands that turn to creatures good
    I'm lost as to how that combo works. Fumerole ability doesn't target, if that's what you're thinking. Did he also have an en-kor creature?

    There are combos with crackdown construct and possibly others though.

    EDIT: ceaseless searblades is the other one I found, I think that might be it. Neither combo seems particularly viable in EDH to me, though, which is why I think it's pretty bad.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Are the lands that turn to creatures good
    Just because I'm enjoying this thread, here's how I'd rank the 2 color cycle:

    Needle spires has a high ceiling with equipment, but is trash without buffs, so ymmv. Ravine is great in theory but if you're activating it repeatedly to "live the dream" you really need to find a better use for your mana, so imo it's weak. That goes for all of them really - lavaclaw is underrated imo because, although it's usually useless, when it's good it can be very good.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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