MTG Salvation

I'll do some playtesting and see if I can make a deck capable of the instant-speed win, since until then it's pretty much just a nice idea and a lot of theorycraft.

ok, I was slightly wrong about gargadon - you can't respond to the last-counter-removed-then-cast-it trigger because it's no longer technically suspended (because suspended means it has to have counters on it, NOT because it's on the stack - this is before it's on the stack, in response to the third suspend trigger). That said, it still works to sacrifice more than 10 permanents, you just have to do it in response to the activated ability instead of the triggered ability. so you have to sacrifice permanents 10 to 15 (or however many) in response to each other. then the most recent sacrifice resolves and casts gargadon, and then the rest resolve and do nothing.

KCI does NOT cost 2. it costs 4. The issue isn't the net mana cost, it's the initial mana cost. Sure, once it's on the field it produces all sorts of mana, but you've got to cough up 4 mana to get it on the field in the first place, or 6 with reshape. Gargle is just 1 mana, so it's easier to combo off on an earlier turn.

as far as "subpar artifacts" i mean that those artifacts are subpar without KCI. no one's running darksteel citadel in a non-KCI eggs list. (obviously they're not subpar with KCI or else they wouldn't get played) So it means the deck is dependent on getting KCI into play, otherwise it's subpar to other eggs decks because of the otherwise subpar artifacts. gargle doesn't need any sort of build-around, so he doesn't need you to run any otherwise subpar cards (except maybe the one mountain or shockland). if you get him, great, but if you don't, you haven't compromised the other cards in your deck.

true, horizon canopy isn't free CA like chromatic star and co. are. And it's going to be crap if you've got plenty of CA but not enough mana. But having ways to shift the balance from mana to CA on those occasions when you're guttering on cards seems like a useful thing to have, especially considering it fills a land slot.

Quote from izzetmage

Horizon Canopy requires constant mana input and doesn't provide the blue required for Reshape.

Greater Gargadon is like KCI, except that you can only sac a maximum of 10 times, doesn't produce mana before you Sunrise (or when you crack Ichor Wellspring), and is off-color. The 9 damage doesn't count for much when Spellbomb does infinite damage, and Banefire easily does 20.

Kaleidostone has to compete with 16 other eggs for maindeck space, and it's easier to crack Elsewhere Flask than it. If you're playing with more than 16 eggs, it means you're playing Krark-Clan Ironworks, which means you're playing Ichor Wellspring and Terrarion, which are superior to Kaleidostone.

Solidarity? The closest thing to Reset is Early Harvest, and the closest thing to Candelabra is the Magus. And you can't cast eggs at instant speed, unlike Brainstorm and Impulse. You're looking for Heartbeat Combo.

well sure, canopy is somewhat off-color, but flask or eggs can easily turn it blue (if you're going off that turn, ideally), or you can pitch it to ghost quarter, or whatever. And white is still potentially useful for sunrise, and green and white are both useful for wargate, which could be nearly equal to reshape imo. White and green are probably your second and third most useful colors, and I think the ability to use it for draws as needed could outweight the negatives.

Gargadon has 2 huge advantages over KCI - it costs 1 measly mana, and it lets you sacrifice lands. Obviously they're for a slightly different build, but gargadon seems faster and harder to disrupt, seeing as it's not easily counterable or killable. And it's not at all limited to 10 - in response to the trigger (when the last counter is removed) you can sacrifice a bunch more stuff, sunrise, and sac it all again. It's mostly a mana-generating engine anyway, not a CA-one, so once it's generated 10-15 mana I'd say its job has been done. Also, KCI builds want to run some otherwise subpar artifacts (arti lands, wellspring, terrarion, etc) to effectively build around the KCI, but gargle can more easily slip into any deck. The color is definitely an issue, obviously the more nonbasic duals, the fewer GQ targets. still, with the number of fetches being run, 1 little shockland for red couldn't hurt, or even a mountain for fetches/GQ.

I mean "play like solidarity" in the sense of "combo out at instant speed at the best possible time" i.e. in response to a big eot cast, like teferi or gifts or whatever. Not to actually use untap effects like solidarity, that'd be a pretty major change. True, without leyline or shimmer myr or something you can't cast new eggs, but sunrise and noxious revival are both instants, and with a critical mass off eggs, lotus, GQ, fetches etc you could potentially be able to draw and produce enough mana to go off without casting any additional eggs. Being able to play like that puts control players in a very difficult position, because they're often relying on eot plays being safe to gain card advantage. Just a thought.

Without going through all 29 pages, has anyone tried running horizon canopy or greater gargadon?

Gargadon seems like it'd be INSANE mana ramp (basically 10 for 1, or even better since you can activate it in response to the trigger) since you'd usually be saccing non-sacrificable lands to it (i.e. basics), which will come back untapped. also a way to make ichor wellspring and such work. And it's almost completely untargetable, and can potentially beat for 9 hasty damage in a pinch.

canopy is a little mana-heavy to use repeatedly but it doesn't etbt, and since you wouldn't (ostensibly) be sacrificing it if it was a normal mana-land, you're basically just drawing for 1 on every second sunrise. so it's basically like one of the mirrodin spellbombs in terms of mana/draw efficiency.

oh, and also kaleidostone..I'm guessing it's because the 5 mana is too slow for the deck to activate? Still, it seems ok.

finally, has anyone considered playing this deck soldarity-style? seems like it'd potentially make it a lot more resilient to counters, and a lot of the crucial pieces are instants. a quicken could also potentially enable a few of the other cards, or even a shimmer myr to cast additional eggs. Sort of a crazy thought, but being able to go off at instant speed in response to, say, an eot gifts ungiven seems really nasty against control.

I spent a fair bit of time nailing down my favorites, which took a lot of work (but mostly a lot of looking at tons of crap cards), so I figured I'd share my top 10. And, of course, invite an open discussion about what other peoples' favorites are, and what makes a fun casual card, etc. But mostly show off how cool my favorites are.

my top 10 (no order):

• Life from the Loam
  
• Avarice Totem
  
• Gifts Ungiven
  
• Sunforger
  
• Confusion in the Ranks
  
• Volrath's Shapeshifter
  
• Reiterate
  
• Mirrorweave
  
• Dominating Licid
  
• Dimir Doppelganger

As far as what made fun cards to me, I love cards that generate lots of choices/a variety of effects, which is true of basically all of them. Gain control stuff is always fun since it plays differently every game when you're using your opponent's cards (perms with totem, confusion, and licid, or spells with reiterate). toolboxes like life from the loam, gifts, and sunforger also can do lots of different stuff, depending on what you need at the time. Copying stuff is also cool, doppelganger is fun since it can copy your stuff or your opponents, wheres VS is cool because of the added weirdness and difficulty in manipulating his form. I also think I tend to like cards that let me keep secrets, for instance with sunforger I know i've got a wild ricochet whenever i need it, but he doesn't when he's gleefully casting his into the maw of hell.

so, anyway, yes, if I could pick one thing I think defines cool cards for me, it would be "a versatility of function".

what are other people's favorite cards, and what makes a fun card?

i feel like constructed would be really really hard to balance. i mean, in maserati's version, what if you made a deck where the only creatures are force of savagery and champion creatures without any creatures of the correct type to champion? You could make a deck that cannot ever deal combat damage. And of course noncreature slots are trivial to made irrelevant...but at least you'll be really well protected from landwalk with great wall, quagmire, etc.

So if people are playing to win, the loser will always be the person who plays first. because they deck out.

i'd like to go slit my wrists, please.

When I did it, the rules were at least 10 creatures, no more than 2 colors, and 50% land. We did make-your-own packs, so there were a loooot of homelands and fallen empires...I drafted a rainbow crow and that bastard killed me over and over.

i kinda feel like your friend got the better end of the stick on this.

on the plus side, I'm pretty sure that's a girl on the promo necropotence.

well if you really love enchantments, you could always use privileged position. 5 mana, sure, but it is ultimate protection from all targeted removal, for merlira, unlife, and any wincons you might have.

also, lightning greaves > boots.

Quote from Alien Misprint

Sterling Grove is an excellent suggestion, thanks! I think Mother of Runes is a bit too conditional for what I want to do, but you have to remember, they can't Doom Blade a creature that has Swiftfoots (or Lightning Greaves, still trying to decide between the two) on.

They also can't doom blade a creature that mother of runes gives pro black to.

spirit mantle is unworthy to lick the boots of mother of runes. She's incredibly powerful, and unlike boots she can react at instant speed (can't boots your angel AND melira when you're against stp and/or pte, can you?) and she costs 1 mana with no additional costs to protect new creatures. protection from removal, additional evasion, even removes negative enchantments placed on your creatures earlier and protects from mass-damage spells like starstorm or whatever, and she can block like a tank if needed. She's just all-around one of white's best weenies, seriously in contention for best creatures at 1 cmc. she's a 4-of, no mistake.

EDIT: btw, if you really want to go combo, devoted caretaker is way better at protecting melira and your enchantment. angel is waaay too expensive to be effective...if they have removal, they'll use it right away, not the turn after you cast your angel...for 6...mommy and caretaker are far more economical.

Thanks for the article, that was fun. Unfortunately the weakness of RW and the lack of cool generals in those colors has thus far prevented me from using sunforger in EDH.

That said, the article is taking a somewhat more pragmatic route in its construction than I am - of course stp is better than inspirit, but if I've got the mistveil plains engine going with stp then it's going to be a pretty boring game. (for the same reason, I didn't include grab the reins and went with temporary insanity instead.) I also didn't include useful adds like dawn charm for the same reason - it'll make the game boring against a lot of decks.

giant is cool but a bit expensive, same goes for the windwalker. paladin is cool but my creature slots were already pretty full with fun, silly stuff (actually all the creatures you mentioned were initially on the list). Tenderfoot isn't included because he's super powerful, but because he's really entertaining to play mind games with (especially with inspirit, although inspirit is also fun with the creatures with tap abilities). nexus is an interesting possibility. Sunhome I took out because I thought it was too expensive - this is controlly enough that 99% of the time I won't use it even if I have the mana.

I would like to run more lands, but keep in mind that I've got a tithe, two wayfarers, and a simian spirit guide, so it's still sort of like 24 "lands".

Yet another attempt to create the ultimate casual deck. This time around, I'm building around a classic casual favorite: Sunforger.

Firstly, my goals for this deck:

-It's gotta be focused around ye olde Sunforger.
-It's gotta be fun to play.
-It's gotta play differently every time.
-It's gotta be as hard to play well/correctly as possible.
-It's gotta be at least reasonably powerful without being too OP for a good-natured casual game.
-It's gotta be usable in 1v1 and multiplayer.

So, here's my first draft:



Most of the selection was focused around making the deck insanely hard to control (which = fun, at least for me), although there's a few choices that are mostly to make sure it isn't complete crap, such as mother of runes, spellskite, and sfm. The lands are sort of bleh, they could probably be improved. The instant selection I really like, it's all about providing a toolbox for sunforger than enables - nay, requires - complex stack manipulation.

so, erm, yes. thoughts?

you realize that selective memory says "nonland" right? You'd still have over 2/3 nonforest cards in your deck.

Quote from Zuriya

I didn't really think it through, but another route to go would be using cards like Necrotic Ooze or Havengul Lich.
Then you could be using the classical cards used in Reanimator like Intuition, Buried Alive or Careful Study. You could also include Anger to be able to use the abilities that require tapping the turn you cast the above enablers.
Then you wouldn't have to worry about having a Top/Sylvan Library all the time around.

Well that's a kind of a different deck. A good deck, to be sure, but one that's a little more straight forward and less interesting (imo). Havengul lich in particularly is more of a reanimator than a activated ability combo critter, ooze is strong but it's a little too easy to go infinite with. The only thing I'm really ignoring with this deck is kiki-jiki, I'd have to ignore loads of stuff with ooze, which is why I haven't really been in a huge hurry to build that deck soon.

I wouldn't call deep analysis CRAZY good, per se, it's decent. 3 life could totally matter for a control deck. the initial cost is pretty gross. There's really no way you're going to find better draw than FoF for this deck, and it's still only a 2-of, so if the draw is too low it's easy to add.

Also, keep in mind that darkblast + orchard lets me get the ball rolling whenever I please.

Quote from Hat@Clogs

Heal the Scars protects your ink treader and gains you life, potentially quite a bit of life depending on how many creatures are in play. Emerge Unscathed also protects ink treader without the downside of it copying to your opponents creatures.

I don't think protection is a major issue, he's sort of got it built-in. Anyone targeting him with removal will usually be wiping the field of their own creatures too. At any rate, he costs 4, so most any removal will be active by the time he's active, so if people decide to kill him they'll do it sooner rather than later (i.e. while I'm tapped out and can't cast heal the scars), so that's why the protection I included can be used for free.

Besides the above reasons, I don't like emerge unscathed because I need their creatures alive to win. Also because, if all their creatures are already dead because of a terminate that only I protected myself from, then they've got no reason not to try again.

Finally, the existing protection is (or can be) one-sided already. the copies resolve first, so I can let them resolve to kill the nastiest stuff they have, then cast reverent mantra when only the stuff I want alive is alive.