MTG Salvation

Quote from Justice1337

It just sounds like a complete difference of style. Tweak both Lazav and Aurelia toward all-out speed, and Aurelia gets the nod. And then provided that you can play as the fastest clock in an area with turn 8-10 average wins, what happens with the Condemn that gets drawn after the game is over doesn't really factor in. Speed over resilience every time.

Besides, one can be bought while the other cant. Resilience tends to be built into the format through the Command Zone, provided there's enough mana. That's particularly true with haste. Tuck is one thing, but when every Instant kill in the game takes 2 combats from you and any Sorcery kill takes one, that deck is losing to any answer card. You're still worried about tuck, but that's all you're worried about. On that front, White provides some land tutors which can grab Cavern of Souls or High Market as the case may warrant, which greatly reduces exposure to tuck. When it hits you, it hits hard, but when you have the option of sometimes winning when you're not stopped and rarely winning because you're too slow, the choice is clear. You play the deck that's as fast as it needs to be, then you work on getting it as resilient as you can.

Also, speed gets the nod over lasting value as well. The worth of sword procs is pretty low when you've got all you need to win at your fingertips, and protections start to win you more games than procs. You get your value out of the Command Zone. What you do have to have is mana, to the tune of 7 to 8 by turn 5, in order to keep those swords equipped and your general recast and out on the field. Mana is also just what the doctor ordered for what's the most powerful stack-control and anti-disruption tool in the game - Sunforger. Boros 4 life.

Firstly, I disagree that aurelia is necessarily faster. She's a 6 drop. lazav is 4. He's only a 3/3 body, but one removal spell makes him the best (non-general) thing on the field. Frequently, that'll be something as strong as aurelia. With no ramp, lazav is swinging, fully-equipped, on turn 5, while Aurelia's on turn 6, with no equipment. Not to mention, his colors make tutoring equipment easier, which means better equipment more reliably.

Second, I disagree that "all-out-speed" is the way to go. If it's a 4-person table, someone's bound to have an answer, and probably at least a few. If that's a tuck spell, you straight-up lose. And even if aurelia never gets blocked or removed and has a sword on, that's going to be 8 turns to kill the table, plus however long it takes to get her out in the first place. Voltron is not generally a fast wincon. "speed over resilience"? Weird, that's sort of the antithesis of everything I've learned about playing EDH. You're at a table with a bunch of other people who will definitely throw hate at you when aurelia hits the field, and your plan is to assume that none of them have answers? Seems like a bad plan.

Land tutors in white? Um, there's only 1 white tutor for nonbasic land that comes to mind (I guess like 3 if you chain tutors). Black has like 15. And if you're holding off another turn to play aurelia and keep high market open, you could have played a hexproof general a turn earlier and swung the same turn. Resilience IS speed, because you can make plays that would otherwise be too risky.

I have to say, overall it seems like we just have very different opinions of how EDH works. In my experience, unless you're playing a deck that's OP compared to the meta, fast decks, especially without protection or CA, fail and fail hard. You've got triple the life totals to kill and triple the removal aimed at your head. Lazav protects himself from removal, and acts as a great stealth threat to avoid drawing too much hate, plus he's cheaper and lets you keep mana open for your own answers earlier. If aurelia works for you, then I guess play what works. I suspect your meta is low on answers, though, or I can't imagine how she could be even close to Lazav as a voltron.

if we're talking ALL legends, not just ravnica ones...

golgari > dimir > simic > izzet > selesnya > orzhov > azorius > rakdos > gruul > boros.

Note that this is purely by general options. I dislike selesnya as a color combo, but they have a good range of options.

Quote from Justice1337

4) Boros - It might be surprising that Boros is my preferred non-Blue guild, but then again, a lot of players have written off creature-aggro as totally unplayable in the format to begin with. Not so. First off, Aurelia is the single best Vultron commander in 2-color, and probably in the top 3 overall. Haste is critically important and she has no drawbacks to being recast. Tajic is also very good at destruction-flavored aggro, and Jor Kadeen's pump out of the command zone is enough to build an entire deck around. Gisela is also a great finisher that will be cast in most games in her deck, and she's one of the better 7 drop commanders for those who want to try her.

1) it's vOltron.

2) aurelia the best 2-color voltron? A 6-drop with no protection and only decent evasion? You're mad. I mean, haste is nice, but it's not THAT important in voltron because you want to get your equips on anyway, otherwise you're just beating face and not getting any actual benefit (aka sword procs). I'd take hexproof over haste any day of the week. Take a hasty swing into a condemn/oblation/chaos warp/bant charm/spin into myth and you're righteously screwed. Especially in RW, you'll never find your general again. I'll take voltron Lazav over Aurelia without even thinking.

Quote from Krevok

Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer has decent equipment synergy.

sort of, and sort of not. on one hand, he gets a boost from equipment. On the other hand, he likes tokens, which don't generally mix well with equipment.

He really synergizes better with global pump artifacts, artifact tokens, etc.

Quote from Incanur

Gisela, Blade of Goldnight isn't mindless aggro unless you want her to be. She both protects you and your team and makes blasting opposing critters thoroughly practical.

that's only true if you assume she survives until you untap, which isn't generally the case.

I'd like her a lot more if she had a weaker effect - say +1 damage, prevent 1 damage instead of 1/2 - and was a cheaper body, say a 3/3 flyer for WWRR or something. Not sure if that's too good, my gut says no but it's been wrong before.

Quote from Jivanmukta

Becoming hard to ignore the mill when it's 90% of the cards the color combo gets.

Well, yeah, that part sucks. But I don't think Lazav is part of the problem. He LOOKS like he wants you to play mill, but he's better off without it.

To be fair, though, 90% of cards suck for EDH anyways. most UB stuff is crap, but there's still solid U and B cards - swan song and hero's downfall in the last set, for example, are highly EDH playable. U and B are strong enough control colors individually, they don't need multicolor cards to dominate.

Quote from Rancid Raptor

Brion Stoutarm wonders why you never played him with equipments. Especially with Deathrender

Because a 4/4 french vanilla isn't interesting or exciting to me?

Also because coincidental minor synergy with a handful of equipment doesn't make him "synergistic with equipment". Most generals benefit from a few choice pieces of equipment, it doesn't make them equipment generals. I want something like SFM, leonin shikari, or puresteel paladin as a general. So far the only thing that fits the bill is Godo, and he's mono-red so sunforger is out.

Quote from Jivanmukta

I think Lazav is exactly what is wrong with U/B design. It's parasitic with other mechanics and contrary to other ones. Why does half the mill exile? Why does mill need to scale so poorly? Why can't u/b play like u/b anymore. Until these get fixed the color combination is resigned to combo/control boringness or trash.

I'd just as soon ignore mill altogether. It's a terrible strategy all-around, whether it's exile or straight mill. When I play lazav, I just pack a bunch of removal so I can turn him into stuff on the battlefield while picking off the threats I'd want to kill anyway. He's great as a control/voltron general, imo - hard to kill, low cost, fits nicely into the curve for voltron, doesn't usually freak people out immediately.

Quote from Jivanmukta

Dimir while strong as a color combination actually has some of the worst and most boring generals.

Forced terrible mill, parasitic exile effects, overcosted situational spells. The color combination is incredibly if you're playing in a more competitive fashion but is generally terrible (and generates irrational levels of hate) when playing in a more casual way. Dimir is heading down a bad path as far as EDH is concerned.

Sad but true. I want to find all the people who like the "grind" effects that took up so many spots in rav block and strangle them.

I think lazav was a (lone) step in the right direction, at least. He's hard to deliberately hate out, and frequently he gets ignored until suddenly he's an ulamog and everyone is screwed. at least that's been my experience.

that lich guy is also crazy strong potentially, although he's more of a competitive general than casual.

if we're just talking rav legends...

wu - GAAIV is solid, no one is super interesting.
ub - i hate them all except lazav, but he saves it.
br - rakdos is solid, lyzolda is pretty cool. other 2 suck.
rg - not a fan of any of them, but the hydra guy is ok I guess, and ruric is good, just boring.
gw - trostani is strong, wolf dude is ok.
wb - teysa 1.0 is one of 3 rav legends I actually like enough to build, and has been one of my favorite decks, so the fact that the new ones suck doesn't bother me.
bg - both new ones are good, and savra is fine. one of the stronger overall guilds.
gu - momir is pretty high-tier, kraj is silly, the others are somewhere in between. Also very strong.
ur - Melek's fun, niv's high tier, overall very solid.
rw - all of them suck except aurelia, and she's not that exciting either.

so in terms of unplayability, I'd say boros, gruul, azorius, selesnya, rakdos, dimir, orzhov, izzet, golgari, and simic, in that order.

Although if we're talking playability for ME, then orzhov and dimir are tied for best, followed by izzet, with the rest tied for last.

Quote from Boros_Archangel

Despite my name I have to say that Boros is the worst for generals in EDH. There are very few options to pick from and to make matters worse they all do pretty much the same thing. Aurelia, Tajic, Argus Kos, Jor Kadeen, Anax and Cymede. All of them lend themselves to token/aggro. There's no depth to the Boros legendaries. I personally love Razia and Gisela but it's plain to see that Boros is the worst when it comes to cool commanders.

agreed. All I want is a boros general with equipment synergy, so I have a reason to run a sunforger deck. If I say it enough times, I'm hoping it'll come true.

And Gisela is complete garbage. Holy crap does she suck. By far the worst legend from commander.

Orzhov doesn't have a ton of options, but I've always loved teysa 1.0, and the others are mostly at least ok (and the angel isn't sac themed). boros doesn't have anyone I even like a little bit. Gruul is saved by wort.

Quote from Ophidian Eye

Would the deck also run things like Megrim, and Underworld Dreams?

they both seem sort of pointless while liliana's caress exists.

I like anger more. otherwise what's the point of the zombies?

Quote from Ophidian Eye

Man, I keep forgetting staff is unbanned.

Eldrazi could work, but you could also go for the cutesy/not good win of somehow casting your Laboratory Maniac at instant speed. Maybe any one of the fair amount of flash enablers, e.g, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, Leyline of Anticipation, Winding Canyons.

more easily, if you're rolling with red, just hit your anger and your insane hoard of zombies should be able to kill the table.

T2 waste not
T3 jace's archivist
T4 use archivist, play + equip + use umbral mantle, reuse archivist a bunch.

I guess you'd need to shift black to blue, but eventually you should have plenty of mana for whatever.

Quote from Ophidian Eye

Jace's Archivist?

I just imagined a Timmy/Johnny scenario in a bug deck with Waste Not/Jace's Archivist/Seedborn Muse.

Better than seedborn, try staff of domination or umbral mantle. Should be a cakewalk to go "infinite". and you cut out a color. Main difficulty would be to not deck yourself. run lots of eldrazis?

Quote from Sigismond0

I accidentally found this one in my Ruhan deck:

• Sunforger
  
• Final Fortune
  
• Sundial of the Infinite
  
• Reito Lantern

Sunforger in RWU is pretty great at fetching out Swift Silence and Counterflux an other great counterspells, so it's certainly worth running on its own merits. I'd argue it's one of the strongest cards in RWU, and it will certainly make your deck much more consistent.

as long as you've got W, mistveil plains >>>>> reito lantern. "tutorable" with fetchlands, as well as the classic tithe off sunforger. enlightened tutor off sunforger gets sundial.

Nifty little one-card combo, there. solid find.

Quote from StyxOfTolaria

Hey everyone,

I've recently decided to sleeve most of my collection to be able to assemble any deck I want for any given week of EDH. Only Dromar remains always together.

On to my question...does anyone else do this? If so, what do they recommend for holding all the cards in?

Ha, I do that exact same thing (replace dromar with zirilan). I just blew $800 over the weekend to add to my collection of staples.

I just use one of those big cardboard card boxes you can probably get at any LGS, the 5000 count size I think, which holds maybe 2000-2500 sleeved. I'm still building my collection but it's at around 1400 (1800 after my weekend binge's cards arrive) and holds them just fine.

sleeves-wise, it's all dragonshield black (zirilan's in red to differentiate). Although I've been disappointed to realize that they vary slightly in size (1 mm or so) from one package to another. Depending where you're playing, this might be no big deal or a major problem. Durability-wise, they're great, shuffling-wise, they're respectable. I dislike shuffling KMCs (friend of mine has a cube of them, and I break a few sleeves every week) and ultra-pro aren't durable enough.

I considered getting something fancy (mtgcustomdeckboxes has some nice designs) but I don't see myself carrying 2500 cards anywhere, so for just sitting around at home it seemed like a waste to get a fancy box. I'd just go for the cardboard, in whatever size you think you'll need.

play different colors? black and green are great at tutoring creatures. other colors, not so much.

Colorless tutors like planar portal, ring of three wishes, and citanul flute do the job, at a high cost.

ethereal usher will also do the job.

Those artifacts can be tutored much more easily by blue, such as fabricate and treasure mage, and fabricate can be tutored by mystical tutor which can be tutored by merchant scroll.

Bottom line, if you're desperate you can have a lot of cards that get medomai (for a lot of mana) but if you want efficiency in tutoring for creatures, RUW is a terrible place to look.