I can't see ever drafting this card out of a pack. Let alone adding it to a deck.
I would definitely include this in my deck unless I was really tight for color mana. (three color aggro plus), but your right about the drafting part. The only way this would end up in my pool is if it was a stick.
Edit -- I would probably even play it in some control lists given the same scenarios.
I meant that a "Sneak Attack deck" is too unreliable in cube, since it is a singleton format. As in a deck that relies on Sneak Attack to work. I found SA to be a nice addition to GR ramp and BR reanimator decks. You have a primary way to get your fatties into play and then you have SA as a back-up plan. Counting SA as the main way to get Angel of Serenity into play is far too risky though. I never disputed the great interaction between those two cards. It's just that a player shouldn't rely on this two card combo too much, since you won't draw both cards together every time.
ah... I understand what you meant now. I agree SA is not good enough to "builds your deck around" in that sense. I think this angel is definitely good enough for (W/R) sneak attack (ramp? control? I don't know what to call this deck but I think you know what I'm talking about) and (B/R) reanimator with sneak attack. I was just trying to show that she does a lot more in all these archetypes than Akroma, Iona, or non-elesh norn fatty X. I agree that Akroma is a hard cut because of its flavor and history in magic. I went through the same feeling when rebuilding my (B/G) section. Oh spiritmonger...
I personally wouldn't run a Grim Lavamancer that could not target creatures. And this one can't go into just any green aggro deck, only one that at least splashes black.
I wouldn't play it in a non-green deck because it doesn't target it creatures. I wouldn't play it in a non-black deck because it's worthless. So I would only pick it up if I am in the BG combination (virtual gold card during draft), even though it's easier to play once in-game than a gold card. But if its taking up a virtual gold slot in draft, it should do something pretty good, not just be better than grim in some narrow ways and worse than grim in other, quite critical, ways.
This pretty much says it all. This card is a pretty bad comparison to grim lavamancer consider grim lavamancer can hit creatures. This guy falls short in three areas.
1) his ramp ability is unreliable and very likely to never be used.
2) I wouldn't play him as a G 1/2 Gtap, exile a creature card: gain two life. This is a terrible savaging ooze.
3) I wouldn't play him as a B 1/2 Btap, exile an instant or sorcery: target player loses two life. This doesn't seem consistent enough for aggro and isn't worth it as a graveyard hate ability.
so I would only play him in (B/G) and that guild is way to tight for a situational grave hate, situational aggressive 1/2
Unleash 2BR sacrifice ~: ~ deals damage equal to its power to target player.
3/2
Is this guy good enough. Most people have been complaining that there are not enough good (B/R) cards. This guy seems strong but I'm not sure if he edges out anything. Maybe he's just worse then ashenmoor gouger.
I can also recommend Jokulhaups for this strategy. It's a little harder to break but can be imba.
I don't like jokulhaups. It's way harder to break the symmetry since its only good with planeswalkers and enchantments. The main problems with this card are...
1) like I said its only good with planeswalkers and enchantments. Most enchantments don't have enough of an effect to win on a completely empty board. With the exception of debtors' knell I can't think of one. Since it doesn't leave your finisher in play, unlike wildfire, it's really only great with planeswalkers. Sure playing jokulhaups with a jace 2.0, jace 3.0, or elspeth in play is an auto win, but that really doesn't have much to do with jokulhaups.
2) protection creatures and creatures with power greater than 4 can't live through jokulhaups
3) wildfire is great for control against aggro and midrange (to some extent), as well as being playable against control if you can break the symmetry better than your opponent. Jokulhaups is the opposite. It's only really good in the control mirror. It is abysmal against aggro since they will most likely recover faster than you.
The only wildfire effects I would run if you wanted to support the archetype would be wildfire, BoX, upheaval, catastrophe and maybe all is dust (this one only if you also support mono green ramp and/or the brown deck). Out of the apocalypse effects jokulhaups is by far the best, but the apocalypse effects aren't good enough for cube.
I don't run planeswalkers, but had assumed that this would be as much a disadvantage for decks running Wildfire (as they lose a way of breaking the symmetry) as it is an advantage for opponents.
I have found the rise of aggro strengthens Wildfire, as it used to be dead in the common midrange matchups my cube used to favour.
It seems to be the opposite. Like some one above said, the higher the concentration of planeswalkers the harder it is to break wildfires symmetry. It's good against creatures. If decks run a lot of artifacts, enchantments, and planewalkers chances are its not going to be that strong.
That is a very interesting interaction, but I think it is a bit too unreliable in cube (as a singleton format).
I'm confused. Why is this a bit too unreliable. You must not be talking about sneak attack being unreliable because you are running it in your own cube, so you must be talking about the angel. It's no more inconsistent than other sneak attack creatures. If you don't draw it, it will do nothing. If you do it will most likely have a large effect on the game. I think it is the best sneak attack creature in white hands down. (probably one of the best period if your not running eldrazi's) More than elesh norn. Large body, evasion, sweeps large creatures as well as small one, and can recur your other sneak creatures. That's far from unreliable.
Another card it works very well with is living death. It makes that card far less situational. It allows you to wipe the creatures that return on the opponents side of the board as well as return any that may have been in play on your side when you cast living death.
I'm not saying its a windmill slam auto include #1 white fatty (elesh norn). What I'm saying is if your cube supports Reanimator, Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, or Living Death (probably some others I'm missing) and you include Akroma, Iona, or some other 7+ fattie its a windmill slam auto include #2 white fatty.
I think your list should run it over Akroma. It allows you to build your "cheat-in" decks in a way that doesn't make you go all in on a fatty since its bounce and recur abilities can allow you to grind out games where your plan is interrupted. It's EtB abilities more than makes up for the fact that it "dies to removal", and it's ability to sweep opponents board makes up for its lack of vigilance. (comparing to Akroma) I'm not even gonna to explain why it's better than Iona. After cubing that card to death it's more than apparent that it doesn't belong in cube.
I may cut Yosei for this guy. My only concern there is that Yosei gets hard cast often and this creature is WWW
It kills 10~ cards more in my cube then doomblade. I think it probably better than doomblade, but I don't think I'll include it since doomblade is the opposite of go for the throat where this card is a strictly worse go for the throat. At least doomblade gives me options. Maybe I'll replace victim of the night with it now that im including black aggro (zombies). Still victim is really strong. I'll have to test.
I guess you could say its good with crucible too. It's also ok in mono red. Allows you to turn lands into damage once you've reached the ideal spot of your curve. It might be a little to narrow though. I think it was in my original cube but I haven't tried it since Lowryn has been out. Maybe it is ok. Its worth including if some of your players enjoy it. It can be a strong effect.
With Smokestack or Tangle wire, you can give your opponent a detrimental extra turn and stockpile a good turn for later.
There's several ways to break it, and I think it's worthy of inclusion.
I don't like the combo (maybe I just have a grudge against it since I feel like it ruined vintage). That being said if it played out like this more often I would be inclined to play it. That is a cool effect. I guess if there comes a point in my cube where there are enough scenarios that it works like this in I would consider running it without key and tezz. That way it could be used to
1) lose a turn against durdle control to gain a turn later.
2) punish with symmetrical upkeep effects.
3) be used as a time walk with a pester mite.
4) assemble a convoluted crystal shard/pester mite/time vault combo.
The actual combo does not appeal to me in the slightest though.
I think the fact that this creature can recur utility creatures in the yard and bounces the removed creatures ounces it leaves really gives it a leg up. It could be a solid reanimate or show and tell creature. But to say it has more board board presence then elesh norn is absurd. I guess in a dragon cube thats probably accurate but in a standard cube elesh born is a beating.
One thing I didn't think of before is that this angel is absurd in a sneak attack deck. That's something to consider. I think if your cube is running another white fattie (7 drop or higher) along side elesh norn this should be it. Far better than akroma and Iona for all the strategies I mentioned.
It is Ravnica art confirmed to be printed on cards in the new block Return to Ravnica.
It is new.
Two Signets have been reprinted in casual products with the RtR art.
They are never printing signets, remand, force spike, or mana leak given the mentality of one member of R&D during the development of RtR.
Those are ALL confirmed.
Fixed. When arguing you point it's important to state facts correctly. Puting your personal twist on them to make them better for your argument make you look less credible.
I would definitely include this in my deck unless I was really tight for color mana. (three color aggro plus), but your right about the drafting part. The only way this would end up in my pool is if it was a stick.
Edit -- I would probably even play it in some control lists given the same scenarios.
ah... I understand what you meant now. I agree SA is not good enough to "builds your deck around" in that sense. I think this angel is definitely good enough for (W/R) sneak attack (ramp? control? I don't know what to call this deck but I think you know what I'm talking about) and (B/R) reanimator with sneak attack. I was just trying to show that she does a lot more in all these archetypes than Akroma, Iona, or non-elesh norn fatty X. I agree that Akroma is a hard cut because of its flavor and history in magic. I went through the same feeling when rebuilding my (B/G) section. Oh spiritmonger...
This pretty much says it all. This card is a pretty bad comparison to grim lavamancer consider grim lavamancer can hit creatures. This guy falls short in three areas.
1) his ramp ability is unreliable and very likely to never be used.
2) I wouldn't play him as a G 1/2 Gtap, exile a creature card: gain two life. This is a terrible savaging ooze.
3) I wouldn't play him as a B 1/2 Btap, exile an instant or sorcery: target player loses two life. This doesn't seem consistent enough for aggro and isn't worth it as a graveyard hate ability.
so I would only play him in (B/G) and that guild is way to tight for a situational grave hate, situational aggressive 1/2
Unleash
2BR sacrifice ~: ~ deals damage equal to its power to target player.
3/2
Is this guy good enough. Most people have been complaining that there are not enough good (B/R) cards. This guy seems strong but I'm not sure if he edges out anything. Maybe he's just worse then ashenmoor gouger.
With out an untap effect you will lose a turn to take a turn. It doesn't actually net you another turn.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=447750
I don't like jokulhaups. It's way harder to break the symmetry since its only good with planeswalkers and enchantments. The main problems with this card are...
1) like I said its only good with planeswalkers and enchantments. Most enchantments don't have enough of an effect to win on a completely empty board. With the exception of debtors' knell I can't think of one. Since it doesn't leave your finisher in play, unlike wildfire, it's really only great with planeswalkers. Sure playing jokulhaups with a jace 2.0, jace 3.0, or elspeth in play is an auto win, but that really doesn't have much to do with jokulhaups.
2) protection creatures and creatures with power greater than 4 can't live through jokulhaups
3) wildfire is great for control against aggro and midrange (to some extent), as well as being playable against control if you can break the symmetry better than your opponent. Jokulhaups is the opposite. It's only really good in the control mirror. It is abysmal against aggro since they will most likely recover faster than you.
The only wildfire effects I would run if you wanted to support the archetype would be wildfire, BoX, upheaval, catastrophe and maybe all is dust (this one only if you also support mono green ramp and/or the brown deck). Out of the apocalypse effects jokulhaups is by far the best, but the apocalypse effects aren't good enough for cube.
It seems to be the opposite. Like some one above said, the higher the concentration of planeswalkers the harder it is to break wildfires symmetry. It's good against creatures. If decks run a lot of artifacts, enchantments, and planewalkers chances are its not going to be that strong.
I'm confused. Why is this a bit too unreliable. You must not be talking about sneak attack being unreliable because you are running it in your own cube, so you must be talking about the angel. It's no more inconsistent than other sneak attack creatures. If you don't draw it, it will do nothing. If you do it will most likely have a large effect on the game. I think it is the best sneak attack creature in white hands down. (probably one of the best period if your not running eldrazi's) More than elesh norn. Large body, evasion, sweeps large creatures as well as small one, and can recur your other sneak creatures. That's far from unreliable.
Another card it works very well with is living death. It makes that card far less situational. It allows you to wipe the creatures that return on the opponents side of the board as well as return any that may have been in play on your side when you cast living death.
I'm not saying its a windmill slam auto include #1 white fatty (elesh norn). What I'm saying is if your cube supports Reanimator, Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, or Living Death (probably some others I'm missing) and you include Akroma, Iona, or some other 7+ fattie its a windmill slam auto include #2 white fatty.
I think your list should run it over Akroma. It allows you to build your "cheat-in" decks in a way that doesn't make you go all in on a fatty since its bounce and recur abilities can allow you to grind out games where your plan is interrupted. It's EtB abilities more than makes up for the fact that it "dies to removal", and it's ability to sweep opponents board makes up for its lack of vigilance. (comparing to Akroma) I'm not even gonna to explain why it's better than Iona. After cubing that card to death it's more than apparent that it doesn't belong in cube.
I may cut Yosei for this guy. My only concern there is that Yosei gets hard cast often and this creature is WWW
I don't like the combo (maybe I just have a grudge against it since I feel like it ruined vintage). That being said if it played out like this more often I would be inclined to play it. That is a cool effect. I guess if there comes a point in my cube where there are enough scenarios that it works like this in I would consider running it without key and tezz. That way it could be used to
1) lose a turn against durdle control to gain a turn later.
2) punish with symmetrical upkeep effects.
3) be used as a time walk with a pester mite.
4) assemble a convoluted crystal shard/pester mite/time vault combo.
The actual combo does not appeal to me in the slightest though.
One thing I didn't think of before is that this angel is absurd in a sneak attack deck. That's something to consider. I think if your cube is running another white fattie (7 drop or higher) along side elesh norn this should be it. Far better than akroma and Iona for all the strategies I mentioned.
Fixed. When arguing you point it's important to state facts correctly. Puting your personal twist on them to make them better for your argument make you look less credible.