Oh I wasn't considering it over char, but in addition becasue I want more 4 damage burn spells.;)
I was just looking at how many haste creatures I am now putting in red, many of which I hope to close out the game. But if hellrider or Thundermaw Hellkite dosen't get there how much mana do you have left over to burn them out? Esepcially with the geralf's messngers and such out there possibly doing more than 4.
Also if I am playing a hellspark elemental on turn two and unearthing on three, I have 1 man up for this. maybe a corner case, but one extra mana sitting around and wishing I had a lightning bolt happens a lot to me.
I currently am in need of a chain lighting and I might try this out in its spot until I trade for one.
Do you run flame javelin? That card is a 4 damage burn spell for 3 (4 outside of mono-red). I don't play that card but it kind of fits what you're saying. It's another 4 damage burn spell, and a way to close out games. It costs more, but will probably be played in the same "all in, heavy red" decks that would play reckless abandonment. It has some added bonuses.
1) it's an instant
2) it's a better top deck than reckless abandonment because it doesn't require a certain board state to be effective.
3) you can use it as a removal spell to clear the way for the little guys you would be sacrificing to reckless abandonment.
You sure about that? Sacrificing a land like Windswept Heath or Strip Mine is part of the cost so your opponent can respond to the fetch or destroy target land trigger by exiling it before you can replay the land. I'm not a rules connoisseur but i'm pretty sure that's how it works. Or are you talking about something else?
I'm not sure Show and Tell should be the benchmark for power comparisons.
I'm not saying show and tell is the benchmark for fair, I'm saying its the bench mark for too good. Shadow fate said this card is too good because of X, Y, and, Z and I was just showing that there is already a card that can do the same thing. Not only can show and tell do the same thing; it's a million times better.
The implications of a 1R sorcery that puts eldrazi conscription into play shouldn't be "OMG that's too busted. It should be seen more as a narrow, fixed, worse color form of show and tell. In this case I think that it has an extremely narrow card type and is red is enough of a handicap where the card is in no way absurd or close to show and tell in power level.
So 2 mana, throw down Eldrazi Conscription? They better have mana to deal with your 1 drop that probably didn't have anything that special about it. If they kill it in response to the spell, you don't lose your aura, if they let it resolve they better have something like Go for the Throat (Which most likely won't be happening if they're on the draw and you do this T2) or Swords/Path to deal with it, otherwise they're losing their lands.
Sounds like a much worse version of show and tell worse because you can't put an emrakul or griselbrand into play with it and it's red. Just being red makes it way worse than show and tell. I think if the best thing this card does is cheats a conscription into play it is completely fine. Decent in modern. Jank everywhere else.
Hypersonic. I much prefer haste and the possibility of playing Draw-go to something that is only as powerful as your hand is.
I prefer spell bound for almost the exact same reasons, and a couple more. Hypersonic is arguably more a victim of "only as powerful as your hand is." since his ability is only relevant if the rest of your hand is good sorceries. At least spell bound loots. Another plus to spell bound is he blocks better, can abuse some graveyard strategies, and survives wildfire.
With things like Sylvan Library Brainstorm and Mystical Tutor Bonfire and Terminus have become first pickable. I am really surprised by concerns about variance. They may not be best in the opening hand but I hate top-decking my mana cards late, not sure what the difference is.
What? O.o
I don't even understand how that comparison can be made. Miracles are frustrating because they are a mediocre spell that is serviceable at its casting cost. That turn into the stone nuts when top decked in an ideal scenario. Mediocre cards that some how become busted and swingy when top decked randomly isn't exactly most people's idea of fun. I'm not sure how this can be compared in anyway to top decking a mana source late game.
Yea, I'm leery of testing this guy. I can't afford one, and I don't want to play with a proxy longterm. Still he seems awesome and I'd like to include. What to do, what to do.
This guy is awesome. He is probably the only effect of his kind and is in a color that I love putting interesting cards into. I consider it pretty much an auto include in most cubes.
On a side note I don't understand people's qualms with proxying. My recruiter had been a proxy for multiple years until recently when I just happened to acquire one from my friend. I see my cube as my attempt at making the funnest limited environment I can think of. It's not "look at how cool my singleton collection is". If I don't have a card I proxy it because I'm trying to have fun when I cube and leaving a card out because I don't own it would probably make my cube less fun. If its a problem with hating the look of proxies then my advice is put more effort into your proxies. I don't see anything wrong with long term proxies. Just my two cents.
Yea, I'm leery of testing this guy. I can't afford one, and I don't want to play with a proxy longterm. Still he seems awesome and I'd like to include. What to do, what to do.
This guy is awesome. He is probably the only effect of his kind and is in a color that I love putting interesting cards into. I consider it pretty much and auto include in most cubes.
On a side note I don't understand people's qualms with proxying. My recruiter had been a proxy for multiple years until recently when I just happened to acquire one from my friend. I see my cube as my attempt at making the funnest limited environment I can think of. It's not "look at how cool my singleton collection is". If I don't have a card I proxy it because I'm trying to have fun when I cube and leaving a card out because I don't own it would probably make my cube less fun. If its a problem with hating the look of proxies then my advice is put more effort into your proxies. I don't see anything wrong with long term proxies. Just my two cents.
for those that say goyf and bob in the same standard wasn't format warping or that bob wasn't even that good in standard. yes, he was. when he was with goyf it was so gravy. if you remember those days you would understand. the meta game would evolve and shift based around it yes, but if standard was tiago and bob, there would be a deck that played both of them, it would probably be powerful, and it would most likely be played. even a goyf reprint could be potentially dangerous in today's metagame. thought scour + goyf? faithless looting + goyf? grisly salvage + goyf? people can and will make it work when they have the tools available to them. will a reprint happen? eventually out of hope for the sake of adding accessibility to modern. how soon? no one really knows. everyone just wants it to be now. i wish people would just drop it. just wait and time will tell.
My thoughts during this whole thread have been, "did any of these people play standard then?". This post is one of the first logical claims I've heard. Not only was bob good, he was heavily played. Goyf was good, and played. Here is a good deck they were both played in. Goyf was even played in TSP/LRW (?) when the format first came out the best deck out of the gates was R/G ramp and goyf was a staple in it. He blocked merfolks and goblins all day.
People who think goyf is not good without fetch lands clearly have not played him in formats without them. The reason goyf jumped from a crap rare to a chase rare wasn't because of fetch lands in legacy or extended. It was because of standard. I think the only format he wasn't heavily played in, where he has been legal, was block.
Edit -- in block he was still in Kavu Justice, and some builds of shiftry (? The U/G thalonite hermit pickles lock deck). there was also that mediocre mono white deck splashing green for horizon canopy and goyf and riftwseeper.
Regardless of whether is better in hypothetical situations where you draw identical hands, but with the corresponding mox in its place, the best thing about chrome mox is its positives when it's not cast like you stated. In a 15 land aggro deck I would rather run chrome mod because if I draw it in my opening hand it will be just as good as a mox diamond, given my hand composition. If this is my hypothetical hand...
Land
Land
Spell
Spell
Spell
Spell
Spell
And it doesn't contain a mox my aggro deck is better with the chrome mod. My deck with the chrome mox contains 12 lands and a chrome mox. If I'm running mox diamond my deck has 13 lands and a mox diamond which is 2 more dead cards. That makes chrome mod better in the aggro deck then mox diamond.
Is this correct or did I evaluate something wrong.
I think it's pretty obvious that if you deck has a balanced land to spell ratio (17:23) or has a higher land to spell ratio (18+/22-) mox diamond is clearly better. However in aggro chrome mox is better. If I am playing 15-16 lands I am not going to run mox diamond because a hand with one land and a diamond is an auto mull, which is not the case with a chrome mox. Also in aggro it is important to have a high number of low cost aggressive spells/creatures which the diamond is not. My verdict is in an aggro deck I would rather run 14-15 land and chrome mox than 16-17 lands mox diamond.
Not that this scenario is the same, but another cool "maze of ith shenanigan" is that you can ninjitsu creatures into play by returning a "mazed" creature.
"Here is a cool trick I know" is not an appropriate contribution in the Rulings forum. -Carsten
I would just cut Baneslayer Angel, since she is much more likely to not give you your investment back than any of the other cards.
:o!!!!! That can't right. I don't care how much you value EtB effects. Baneslayer can just run away with games. Far more games than silverblade paladin. I think if I was going to cut a creature from that list it would be silverblade paladin or mirror entity. Those two cards are less likely than baneslayer to give you your investment back, they are both 3cc which is what you stated you wanted to cut, and neither has EtB card value. Silverblade is only good with another creature, mirror entity is only good with a lot of creatures, both die to every removal spell in the cube including burn, and both are board situational unlike baneslayer which is a house in most situations.
Cut baneslayer, what kind of world are we living in?
Who needs a demon toolbox when we have a toolbox demon? rune-scarred demon
Do you run flame javelin? That card is a 4 damage burn spell for 3 (4 outside of mono-red). I don't play that card but it kind of fits what you're saying. It's another 4 damage burn spell, and a way to close out games. It costs more, but will probably be played in the same "all in, heavy red" decks that would play reckless abandonment. It has some added bonuses.
1) it's an instant
2) it's a better top deck than reckless abandonment because it doesn't require a certain board state to be effective.
3) you can use it as a removal spell to clear the way for the little guys you would be sacrificing to reckless abandonment.
This does work the way you think
I'm not saying show and tell is the benchmark for fair, I'm saying its the bench mark for too good. Shadow fate said this card is too good because of X, Y, and, Z and I was just showing that there is already a card that can do the same thing. Not only can show and tell do the same thing; it's a million times better.
The implications of a 1R sorcery that puts eldrazi conscription into play shouldn't be "OMG that's too busted. It should be seen more as a narrow, fixed, worse color form of show and tell. In this case I think that it has an extremely narrow card type and is red is enough of a handicap where the card is in no way absurd or close to show and tell in power level.
Sounds like a much worse version of show and tell worse because you can't put an emrakul or griselbrand into play with it and it's red. Just being red makes it way worse than show and tell. I think if the best thing this card does is cheats a conscription into play it is completely fine. Decent in modern. Jank everywhere else.
I prefer spell bound for almost the exact same reasons, and a couple more. Hypersonic is arguably more a victim of "only as powerful as your hand is." since his ability is only relevant if the rest of your hand is good sorceries. At least spell bound loots. Another plus to spell bound is he blocks better, can abuse some graveyard strategies, and survives wildfire.
What? O.o
I don't even understand how that comparison can be made. Miracles are frustrating because they are a mediocre spell that is serviceable at its casting cost. That turn into the stone nuts when top decked in an ideal scenario. Mediocre cards that some how become busted and swingy when top decked randomly isn't exactly most people's idea of fun. I'm not sure how this can be compared in anyway to top decking a mana source late game.
This guy is awesome. He is probably the only effect of his kind and is in a color that I love putting interesting cards into. I consider it pretty much an auto include in most cubes.
On a side note I don't understand people's qualms with proxying. My recruiter had been a proxy for multiple years until recently when I just happened to acquire one from my friend. I see my cube as my attempt at making the funnest limited environment I can think of. It's not "look at how cool my singleton collection is". If I don't have a card I proxy it because I'm trying to have fun when I cube and leaving a card out because I don't own it would probably make my cube less fun. If its a problem with hating the look of proxies then my advice is put more effort into your proxies. I don't see anything wrong with long term proxies. Just my two cents.
This guy is awesome. He is probably the only effect of his kind and is in a color that I love putting interesting cards into. I consider it pretty much and auto include in most cubes.
On a side note I don't understand people's qualms with proxying. My recruiter had been a proxy for multiple years until recently when I just happened to acquire one from my friend. I see my cube as my attempt at making the funnest limited environment I can think of. It's not "look at how cool my singleton collection is". If I don't have a card I proxy it because I'm trying to have fun when I cube and leaving a card out because I don't own it would probably make my cube less fun. If its a problem with hating the look of proxies then my advice is put more effort into your proxies. I don't see anything wrong with long term proxies. Just my two cents.
My thoughts during this whole thread have been, "did any of these people play standard then?". This post is one of the first logical claims I've heard. Not only was bob good, he was heavily played. Goyf was good, and played. Here is a good deck they were both played in. Goyf was even played in TSP/LRW (?) when the format first came out the best deck out of the gates was R/G ramp and goyf was a staple in it. He blocked merfolks and goblins all day.
People who think goyf is not good without fetch lands clearly have not played him in formats without them. The reason goyf jumped from a crap rare to a chase rare wasn't because of fetch lands in legacy or extended. It was because of standard. I think the only format he wasn't heavily played in, where he has been legal, was block.
Edit -- in block he was still in Kavu Justice, and some builds of shiftry (? The U/G thalonite hermit pickles lock deck). there was also that mediocre mono white deck splashing green for horizon canopy and goyf and riftwseeper.
Land
Land
Spell
Spell
Spell
Spell
Spell
And it doesn't contain a mox my aggro deck is better with the chrome mod. My deck with the chrome mox contains 12 lands and a chrome mox. If I'm running mox diamond my deck has 13 lands and a mox diamond which is 2 more dead cards. That makes chrome mod better in the aggro deck then mox diamond.
Is this correct or did I evaluate something wrong.
"Here is a cool trick I know" is not an appropriate contribution in the Rulings forum. -Carsten
Cut baneslayer, what kind of world are we living in?