Magic Market Index for Nov 2nd, 2018
Magic Market Index for October 26th, 2018
Magic Market Index for October 12th, 2018
  • posted a message on [UMA] - Ultimate Masters & Box Topper Promos + PSA regarding sealed Box Topper Boosters
    Players have left the hamster wheel that is Standard for the evergreen fields of Commander, largely as a result of several factors. The way in which Standard is solved, the finance surrounding it, and for old timers like me the design paradigm. The attempts to remove unfun stuff and leave only stuff newer and casual players like was disastrous, and gave a Standard that was pure icing and sickly sweet, not to mention broken.
    Modern players by and large have their decks. I don't know about you but whenever I see a Modern player with a well tuned and well played Death's Shadow as their primary deck I pretty much know when they started Modern, and it was not six months ago.
    Ditto humans, Spirits, Hollow one. The thing is that bans aside they will likely be playing the same decks in a couple of years. They won't be changing any time soon. I know Storm players who will always be Storm players, most were Storm players five years ago. People swap, but for many Modern is the number two format, always second favorite behind something else, so they swap less often than you would think.

    These Masters sets are often bought by richer casuals, often casuals who dabble in Modern but are not committed to it, and as such represent one of the fee ways WOTC can mine the casual Commander players. Including a few reprints in Standard sets to help sell them can boost sales to casuals, but the Master's set is a beautiful example of mining casuals, leading to buyer's remorse more often than not.

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [UMA] - Ultimate Masters & Box Topper Promos + PSA regarding sealed Box Topper Boosters
    People are gambling on the product being better than previous masters. I suspect that the box toppers might be a last minute addition to make it different, and the increased price a consequence. It may be they want to see the effect of box toppers on sales in order to correctly ascertain what gets people buying premium. WOTC have realised a huge run in and spoiler season leads to disappointment, because it always ends with Trees, Channel, and Comet Storms that should never be in a premium set because they are not and never have been premium. People can handle it when they get a 4, 6 or 8 dollar Shockland, Enlightened Tutor or other such usable cards that might grow, or even Mystical Tutors that are usable but won't grow, they can't when all they get is a two dollar card that has always been and always will be two dollars and has no use. In order to avoid this they have tried the box topper approach, which is potentially decent for Stores ripping and box buyers, or at least it would have been if it were not for a few Lavaclaw reach type cards. Box topping Eternal Witnesses might suck bext to Lilly, but they will have some value. The short run in has caught people unaware. I think it will be a bust for a fair few buying boxes to rip. It may be worth buying to sit on, the box toppers sealed in the box may make it worth it, but this is still a risk, we do not know how they will use up reprint equity in future. Cards like Emrakul are if limited demand and can't stand up to reprinting like Snappy et al, there will be significant tanking in price for them beyond the normal drop and recover slowly dynamic. There are enough good cards at the top end, we don't know the bottom beyond the small amounts of chaff spoiled.
    I have made a lot of money off mtg, I have not bought sealed product for a while and sat on it, and I am reserving judgement till I see the list because I suspect it won't be the gift that keeps on giving.

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [DECK] Pox Primer
    Yeah, I was thinking that traditional pox wins via multiple Lilly and WL/crucible plus smallpox and Sinkholes. It is not unusual to get a lilly ultimate off. That tends to limit their mana naturally, Gloom could be nuts as we also have Nethervoid. Their escape cards are normally Council's plus Disenchant and Mentor is their main weapon . . Might test it..
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)
    Speaking of o ring, I am now running one blinding l, one oring and one cast out. Have been fir a while. Been jamming pox when out if town, Parfait more locally.

    You can tell that show n tell is back in the meta.
    I finally dropped solemnity unlife combo from the main to make room. It felt great against mono red dragon stompy or burn, and infect did not like solemnity either, but right now mountains seem unpopular.

    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on [DECK] Pox Primer
    Did not manage to get my traditional pox list together last night (vide infra), seem to have difficulty getting a list I am happy with for my meta. Went with helm variant again. Got good results, going ten points and finishing second out of twenty or so players.
    Drew with miracles, which was close to a 2-0 as it could be, losing a long g2 by the skin of my teeth.
    Beat mono b, dredge, and loam maverick.

    Thoughts about the meta and mono pox lists of the traditional variety.
    5here seem to be a lot of Reanimator lists about locally and Lands/Depths/loam decks. From what I have seen this seems prevalent in Legacy post drs ban. How can mono b compete with these? Should the mono b traditional pox lists run surgical extraction effects main deck over sone discard? What is the point of discard if it helps your opponents? I saw a gate style black list running Surgicals to good effect yesterday. They are pseudo discard sometimes, and can be flexible. There is no question in my mind that if I want to pox to a win then I need some interaction with the enemy bin main deck if the trends continue, be that Surgical or Relic main. I simply can't accept game one losses against such a large percentage of the field. I also have show n tell about, and in my experience Surgical is powerful there.

    Where is storm now? It used to be a decent match for pox but has retreated.

    I have seen little in the way of tempo rug or infect decks. These are the traditional bread and butter easy matches for pox.
    How can pox do well when these decks in general seem less prevalent and graveyard decks are high? I already have the helm/leyline variant that does well against the loam abd dredge decks, but I want a traditional pox. Can traditional pox take on dredge, reanimator and such game one?

    Is there room for a gloom in the board for miracles? Making their white spells cost five and six seems strong when ran alongside a critical mass of chains in the board and nethervoid plus smallpox/sinkole main.

    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Primer] R/W Prisons ("Sun and Moon" etc.)
    Traditionally landkill eschewed moon, it switched on fetches as land sources when they often had nothing to fetch.
    The reason landkill is less effective these days is simple, people run fewer fetches that get inhibited by SField. In fact SField has less impact in a few matches than it once did. It was always the dirty secret of the deck, the bit that stole matches.
    The rise of fast lands really hurt the deck.
    The deck has done well in fetch heavy environs, I can recall lending the deck to a player who top 8d a UK event with 100 odd players with it. I myself took it to a small wmcq semi.
    If you are lucky enough to hit the right deck it is still good, but realistically it has hard times against uw control and sometimes even jund, and can be a bit slow against some explosive combos.

    I will say thst Temple of triumph has always been the best land in the deck, play 4 for my money every time, over a foundry.

    I don't see the need for Dragon's claw either, I think it is by and large redundant in what is a
    decent match any way.

    Dark dwellers is not so hot now, I would consider running dampening sphere in the board, or an Eidolon of Rhetoric, and Boil at two copies perhaps, cutting Rabblemaster that sucks with Magus.

    Rip should be there too, despite the miserable nonbo with Flagstones.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Teferi - and why he shouldn't exist
    If you are playing Standard you sign up for expense. If Standard gets too cheap via lottery ticket masterpieces you put people like me who draft it off drafting because draft is only worth the money if you can defray costs with the cards. Many limited players don't play Standard, if Standard with masterpiece cards was very profitable for WOTC they would have kept at it. They do lose some reprint equity with these cards but I doubt they lose enough to warrant stopping lottery packs. Whether you hurt WOTC partners like CFB is another matter; I doubt masterpieces hurt CFBs profits either way.

    As for Terferi, the issue is more with Planeswalker ultimates. If they ultimate you generally lose in a couple of turns unless you have the win in hand, you can't grind past them. Planeswalkers should have been more like Saga cards, but they were not, and the relentless focus on them, alienated many like me. The conspicuous lack of punishment for playing them, such as Solemnity failing to hit walkers, and focus on story meant they were pushed to the point that many players would happily disembowl the designers in front of their families with a forklift if it meant they could end the Jace and Mates (TM) Mtg. The walkers also pushed creatures over spells as creatures became the default mode of dealing wuth them, making the game seem narrow to many from older times.

    Teferi itself is fine, from a Legacy or Modern pov. Standard is just Standard, you know what you are signing up for, a potential six months to two years of a card or mechanic dominating. From what I can see it is not dominating Standard, and if you re read nearly every ultimate as "you win the game" you will feel better about planeswalkers, as most of them do that, they win the game. You are not supposed to beat an ultimate in Standard by out grinding, you are basically allowed a couple of turns to seal the deal before you get deluged in card disadvantage. The Mtg, such that it is, is played before the ultimate.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on [Deck] Pillow Fort Prison- White-X Enchantment Control
    Hey all.
    Not posted for a while.
    Whenever I run my r/w pillow fort I do well, but I have not run it for a while, probably early Sept.
    Right now my version has some decent top tier matches.

    I run two main deck RIPs which do double duty against decks as both bin hosers and enchantment count/devotion boosters. When sphere of safety counts enchantments we can afford to run a coupke of these powerful but narrow cards, even given our limited scrying. They are nonbos with my solitary Starfield, or at least half of it, but they are well placed with so many decks abusing the bin, between Dredge, UW snapcaster, Faithless looting decks like the new Arclight abusing decks, Mardu et al as well as fringe benefits against modular. Even without RIPs Ghostly prison really slows these explosive decks down to the level where they can be locked out. Seal away has improved the deck against explosive decks.

    Humans and Bant spirits are both decks that can stumble when asked to pay 6 mana to attack just as Death's shadow used to. A single ghostly makes them develop or attack, not both. Queller is the big difficulty, and going first really helps.

    UW is sadly quite hard, I run an Obliterate and karoo lands and to win gane one I normally need to draw that Obliterate and cast it.

    Tron is tron, I can beat it game one with Blood Moon, red pillow fort is basically the only one that can beat a Tron deck game one, but Moon is no ensurer of victory, you need a well timed Starfield or Heliod and a lot if luck as they durdle, but really game two is the winnable one where Stony, Rule of Law, and Moon/Dampening Sphere really slow them to a total crawl, allowing a wincon to take over, such as Luminarch Ascension or Starfield. I tend to beat tron more than I lose, which is astonishing for a Pillow Fort.

    I hope people are still enjoying pillow forting, right now the meta is not too bad for Pillow forts despite relatively few new cards being produced for us.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Mono Black land destroy deck
    Landkill mono b in Legacy is pox, There are a few pox ish decks in tge established Pox thread. Your list is not Legacy legal. Strip mine is a big no no in Legacy, not legal or we would all run them. Wasteland is legal.

    Generally blight is unplayable, you can't hit fetches with it, hence Pox effects are better, namely small pox is the way to go, and dark suspicions is also unplayable.

    Also it is worth noting that the free pitch spells in legacy kill creatures, and more than half the format's decks don't use creatures to win, beyond cheated Emrakuls or Grisselbrands turn one or two. By the time the latter is in play they will be able to restock and protect it.

    You could try black vise, which has veen unbanned a while, but it is a nonbo with discard.
    Desolation is a super interesting card, if I were you, given you don't want to play the usual mono black discard suite, I would try and make a desolation/sinkhole/smallpox deck, but even then you will need to play four hymn to tourach.
    I don't see the free critters and ritual engine working, you might consider Lake of the dead for extra acceleration.
    Hope to catch you on the pox thread at some time.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Legacy v Modern
    Legacy exists where there there are people to promote it and access to cards, but it also requires luck, and the LGS to be pointing the right way.

    I will give you my anecdotes.
    I have basically helped build two scenes in my area. In about 2009 I sold out of standard. I was fed up of it, the cost, the formats, the design paradigm. When Modern came along I jumped in, and bought tons of fetches plus old sealed stock. I had the old shocks (expensive at the time), and taking my local TO with me I started to build, he started to promote. I got to 30 odd decks for free loan, mainly financed by selling out of standard and the mass increase in EDH prices. I played the markets a fair bit, and by buying in to Modern at the very start I could build five decks for the cost of one standard deck, and I could sell my draft pulls without fear of needing cards, which then started to make draft break even. The time upkeep on the decks I build was huge, spending hours every month keeping lists up to date, but the scene grew and grew as people could borrow almost any deck and that encouraged them to buy their own. Our city became the Modern city for miles.

    Eventually the upkeep on my time became way too much, times changed and an LGS opened. Commander grew and grew via the LGS, a local player did exactly as I had but for Commander rather than Modern, the local TO stopped running regular Saturday and Tuesday Modern events, and the format leveled and dwindled. As I played the market more I noticed the patterns better, as I dealt in more cards and could see a bit of writing on the wall. I sold out about 17 decks worth of Modern cards and staples, played the markets to sell at maximum price, gambled on reprints and spikes, largely correctly, and made a shed of cash, which funded an intro to Legacy and a fair bit in my personal life. I was ruthless, and would sell any deck no matter how competitive- I sold 3 tron decks, infect, affinity twice over, merfolk, living end, Co-Co, Storm, UW control and many more. I kept about 15, but they consist of a lot of fringe projects no one would want and I actually enjoy, and about seven of the cheapest decks from different middling tiers in the format, decks like eldrazi n taxes, burn, ad nauseam, martyr and skred. Believe me, had there been any money in them they would have gone too. The point was I saw what was coming, a rise of commander, a format in Modern that was getting gummed up, a fall in the serious events at the LGS. Had I stuck with all the big Modern decks I would have had no one to play with locally.

    By coincidence at the time about fifty miles up the road the next city, far bigger, had a small Legacy scene, partially itself coming out of the Legacy scene another fifty miles up. I decided to promote it as best I could, bought deeper into Legacy (again before the huge RL spikes) and the only real help I could be was to repeat what I had done. It was a hell of a risk, at the time Chains were 90 euros, Tabernacles 150, so they were not cheap, but compared to the price of Snappies, Lilly we are only talking a multiplier of two to three times. I became a lending library for cards and decks once again. The difference was the time upkeep was far less, and I now own 20 odd Legacy decks, enough to warrant keeping them banked under lock and key. I have to travel a bit to play Legacy, but in my local city there is almost nobody about for either, so I figure it is the better deal. Financially it certainly has been, no question.

    In both cases without the decks for loan both scenes would have had difficulty taking off, but one scene is still going, whilst the other has dwindled. All it takes is a few key personnel to go, a few new players to come in and play Standard, or the LGS or TO to aim elsewhere.

    A lot of people are desperate to repeat these tricks-to be in as a format grows- they are those who keep pushing Frontier, PreModern etc. Frontier in particular is the one wannabe Modern players whoi could not afford to buy in seemed to think would work, and as many said at the time "I have all the cards for it". Of course, this is rather like people buying Star Wars figures hoping they will be like the old Palitoy ones financially, but it never works twice.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Is the sky really falling this time? Or another case of a Magic slump?
    Prize packs I getbjust get recycled into draft to reduce the cost of entry next time for me, at the end of draft sets I often trade them for the next. Pre release and a few draft winninng boosters are normally enough to keep me in boosters to reduce the cost of entry by 40 pc. The card values determine breaking even in the long run in draft, far more so if you agree to rare redraft (sanctioned mtg forbids rare redraft but if it is a close nit group there is nothing to stop you doing it after the event). Of course you need the skill to identify what cards will spike and when, what to trade away, when to sell etc, the money won't come into your lap if you can't work it. Normally I work two cycles, imediate to six month sell for std cards, and keep for three to five years to sell on for those that don't. This pays for the entry to continue drafting. But if the set is a masterpiece set it by and large does not matter, all the mid value cards that can normally be worked into cash within either a long or short timeframe have such low value there is nothing you can do in the short term even if the card sees significant standard play. Long term there is always the potential to make cash, but it is the short term pot that dies a grim death in masterpiece sets. Kaladesh at least had some obvious sleepers for several formats, but the Expeditions and Invocations came in sets where there were no sleepers and all the card prices were severely depressed and I simply stopped drafting as it was not value for money, expecially considering how bad the draft formats were.

    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Is the sky really falling this time? Or another case of a Magic slump?
    Masterpieces made me stop drafting or doing sealed.
    I broke even on drafts without them. Drafts gave me worthless fifty cent garbage plus a winning lucky lottery ticket for someone. I don't want cheap standard cards, I won't play standard regardless because I hate the design paradigm. I want the cheapest rares to be a dollar, most to be five dollars, good ones to be ten, and mythics to be three to thirty dollars. If it drols significantly below that threshold it simply is not worth drafting. Spread the value and you get lots of quite happy people. Put it into Masterpieces and you get one lucky sod with all the value and a bunch of people walking away from draft disappointed.

    Masterpieces made standard cheap but still the standard numbers did not go up.
    Bringing them back is only good for standard players looking to play cheaply, but it wrecks draft players who don't play standard doubling the cost of drafting minimum as the cost of drafting cannot be defrayed with cards pulled.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on [DECK] Pox Primer
    I tried lilly last hope in the main last night in an updated mono b helm list, coming in for my second phyrexian totem.

    I got zero input on the card, it never got played other than one time when the game was practically won.
    My other changes to beef up critter matches, running two Engineered plagues in the board and a toxic D main, never got much air time either, Deluging just once to kill a Pyromancer.
    I did ok with the deck but played it poorly, especially on mulligan decisions.

    I will likely make no more changes in the imediate future beyond perhaps running 4th Urborg main, and a diabolic edict in the side that pops in and out. Unlike regular Pox I have less redundancy in my mana, and need to get to five, so have always run 3 urborg, but 4 is probably correct, I might even run it over a Mishra's going to just two Factories, as most gane ones are won by Helm or sometimes Scroll.

    I will now move towards concentrating on traditional smallpox Pox for a while.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on W/x Parfait (Tax/Rack Control)
    Forgive me but I can't see people knowing about helm rip as a huge issue. I mean knowing about it and stopping it are different things.
    Decks with p needle effects game one where they preemptively name Helm are d n t and its Revokers and some Depths lists. Both are pretty easy matches regardless of wincon.
    If they name them then your Scroll rack works as they are not naming it, and Cursed Scroll/ Humility/whatever eats through d n ts army.
    Depths makes 20s that get removed via Karakas if you run it or plain old spot removal.
    One hit forced through won't do it due to Zuran, and getting any hit in is hard with Chant about. Not to mention Blood Moon main. I can see you might want to surprise them with Belcher when they name Helm but you should win those games anyway as soon as the Land Tax engine is online there is inebitability.

    For other decks, yes, sometimes they kill RIP in response to Helm, but generally good play beats that, e. g. having two RIPs down, or using Orim's to force them to use their removal midgame on the RIP if you have five mana up. To an extent if they hold a Decay spell you can tax their mana as they can't afford to tap out. Again once you are scrack/taxing you are good to go and if they are killing the combo bits they are not hurting the engine. We are a control deck after all.

    The main point about helm/rip is that the cards have value by themselves. Helm by itself is just good against cheat a critter deck, but RIP otoh, is a very good card by itself vs Storm, Fins, all 3 reanimators, both Dredges, and many snapcaster/miracles decks, especially post accumulated knowledge tech, and grixis control with snappy and K command.
    In the days of bug/jund tammy it did a job too on tammy and still does over KOTR beats.

    I do get Charbelcher though. Good card, wins the game in one. I just want to stick up for RIP helm.

    I run Nahiri side. It is pretty flexible and is good when the engine is inhibited.

    If you run it main then maybe Emmrakul is worth it? I have never found room and it us not worth it for me.

    I used to run unexpectedly absent, good with helm, can protect our stuff. It was good, but at that point I was getting it in by cutting Swords to Plow, which only worked when my meta was very low on dudes. A singleton copy is sometimes worth it.
    CJ seems wrong, sure it hits TNN where O ring can't but you have Humility or Halo for that. O ring or Cast out being Tutorable is better, esp if someone Shows them in for you.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on UWx Miracles
    Yes they are, normally as two ofs. Volcanics gave by and large been dropped as have Explosives. Search has by and large made it and Accumulated Knowledge is the next big thing.

    Sage owl and glasses of Urza.... less so, hehe.

    In seriousness the fact that UW miracles is in developing and decks like Enchsntress are in established is ludicrous.
    This forum also has a lot of people new to legacy asking "can my vampire/spider deck be Legacy viable" (the answer is always no) , making it hard to use.

    As an aside the moderators need to consider stickying decks like Parfait, Soldier or any other non pirate stompy, Stax, Humans, Twin, Rip/helm UW, and other Rogue Corner style decks etc. whilst promoting Miracles and creating threads for Deaths' Shadow and their ilk, because there are so many posts here.

    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
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