The Limited Archetypes of Guilds of Ravnica
 
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Enduring Ideal
    Quote from D-Rich0965 »
    Hi all, I'm thinking of making enduring ideal for modern, can anyone tell me the pro's and cons of the different colors, and what good and bad matchups they have


    It is in the thread really.
    The whole deck is good vs aggro, or can be if you build it that way, weak vs big mana tron.
    Most people splash u, r, or g, and there is not a huge amount of difference in the match ups. The colours give what you expect. R gives Alpine or Blood Moon, even Crumble to Dust if you want it, castable Form of the Dragon for combo, pyroclasm effects and enchantments like Assemble the Legion, u gives board counters,main or board supreme verdict, board Bribery, main or board Spreading Seas, Detention Sphere, G gives castable Sandwurm convergence, enchantress effects and what you would expect. There is no consensus, I like U for Ideal, R for straight Pillow Fort with no Ideal, but there have been more lists with G in recently I have not explored....
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Enduring Ideal
    I think you need to use both halves of the card, it just seems a waste otherwise.
    The whole point is Starfield is both wincon and control. I take the point about verdict or terminus effects, but knowing when to cast stuff is key. We can recycle stuff via Mistveil Plains anyway...
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Enduring Ideal
    Asstrophy certainly is an issue- a Sphere of Safety has less protection from the 4 of trophy vs a couple of Pulses at best that could nerf it. With a fast start those Ghostlies and Spheres will do less work when they can be trophied away.
    That said Pulse will drop from the 75, so no "kill all your spheres" and Asstrophy will also ramp us towards that Ideal, and Ideal means Dovescape, meaning no Asstrophy at all.

    Honestly, the card may make tron less popular, which is good, and Trophy has zero interaction with a resolved EI.
    I normally play RW pillow fort, and UW Ideal, but the majority of the time is with the former. As things stand, the Ideal version gets much better as it is more about the Ideal than about the pillow fort aspect of the deck.
    Cards like Search for Azcanta give the deck more manipulation than it has had in U, the big issue has always been the fact that the deck slightly beats itself with inconsistent draws, I think printing a good removal spell that kills all is not that much of an issue. It may make those decks better- no blankable terminate, for example, but we are talking about 3 cards our deck blanked, the rest replace Pulse and Decays.



    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Dark Depths Combo?
    This deck exists in b/green. It is called Turbo depths, and it is often run by Lands players who fancy a change or can't afford tabernacle in real life.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on [DECK] Pox Primer
    I had an event on Friday and went with MBC.
    My list was as it was in July, with a couple of alterations to improve the blue matches, moving Bblossom to the main.
    It was a very rocky night, playing 4 non blue decks.


    First up Turbo depths.
    I win G1 via Bridge.
    I lose g2 despite having a needle on Stage, a Maze and a Bridge down by t2! I lose on about t5, Sylvan getting the removal pieces needed.
    G3 I just win t2 via rituals/helm.

    R2 D N T.
    A hard match normally, but a positive one.
    I had skimped a bit in the flex slots and was not running Deluge anywhere.
    G1 I win via Helm/LL, not much he could do, although my opponent, a good player with high level experience was tired, he did misplay but I would have won a turn after.
    G2 I felt was in the bag- with 2 Dystopia, Bridge and Lilly seen early he draws like a demon, - have a 50/50 shot at a win off scroll, with Leyline/Helm about to be assembled next turn- as he takes a riskier route than he should- scroll misses and I lose.
    G3 mull to 6 on both sides, I open with Ritual, Lilly, t2 hymn, but crucially screw, he floods and we end up grinding. In top deck mode he draws- palace jailer-I am dudeless and the extra draw gets him there. A good close match that could have gone either way. I thought he would board out swords and he did- a mistake, but I keep nether spirit out, sadly. My own boarding was weaker than it should be too, I realise after I boarded poorly.

    I leave and hope to not get Goblins, mulling that tigter play might have got me 6 points and a better matchup. Twenty five players are there, but the FNM is far less blue than the REL comp events in the same venue, where players travel further and tend to gravitate towards an American style meta with lots of Delver, control e.g. Grixis or Miracles, and storm. Still only one Goblins player, the one match in the room I dread.

    I now get Goblins, which has just drawn with a miracles player oddly. I am sat next to the elves player and rather cursing as my bloody good against blue decks deck seems destined to avoid them.

    This is an awful matchup without Deluge effects in the 75. My answers- are bad Bridges- are vulnerable and don't stop Rabblemaster tokens easily in the latest lists, Scrolls are good but mid game, Deluges are missing and the Abyss only works if you clear the board.

    t1 lacky on the play does a lot, and piledriver, lacky and a warchief swing. I am dead in a minute and bridge does nothing as I draw no rituals to empty my hand.
    G2 is better, but a Trashmaster off the top condemns me to a deserved death.
    I could have done better if I had seen a ritual in either game, the hand just clogging a little but not due to his ports or wastelands. Getting Bridge down simply does not work when the opponent is making those Rabblemaster tokens. The hand I did see with Ritual, Leyline and Helm was tempting but no actual black source. It feels horrible to throw a t3 win away but that is life.

    I say to Goblins player- "as long as I avoid Elves", thinking I have not been negative in a Legacy event since last year.

    I am sure you can guess the rest, elves also draws with miracles and is with me. The match is not actually that bad- I run two board dystopias, chains x2, Abyss and NoSB.
    G1 I lose to elves after some hymn action disrupts a bit.
    G2 I win and control the game- Dystopia/Scroll/Lilly/Bridge and much more just lock the game.
    G3 is actually stupidly close- it goes long and I am a turn away from winning via combo when he sneaks 1 damage through for a win. An excellent match, and one that could have gone either way.


    So there we go, a bad 1-3 night and not a single brainstorm against me in afield of 25 players I hit zero blue decks.
    A couple of better bits of play and boarding might have sneaked 3-1- it is legacy after all and two loses were close 2-1s, but the reality is my deck certainly needs better sweepers for these decks, and it was my choice not to run them. The irritating thing is I never used the cards I was trying and have a couple of toxic deluge/reckoning slots normally. Needless to say I will pack one main and one side next time. The bitterblossom I did run came up and would have won two crucial games had it been a Deluge, adding insult to injury I chose not to cast the card when it did come up, which tells me that it is not a main deck card with the critter decks about the place.

    I actually boarded badly again- forgot how good chains is, and
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Soldier Stompy
    I always say keep SF in vs both BR and UB reanimators, taking out the high end stuff for the matches. I have played it a fair chunk, as I own RB reanimator and I have a couple of mates who are a UB reanimator player and mono B respectively, we have jammed the match a few times for hours. SF is often irrelevant post t2, but so are most of the 4cc dudes, and unlike them a T1 SF is very likely to win a game.
    Stopping GB's draw is key, esp if you run a Karakas (which are normally v good in the deck)- you can afford 2 to activate it once, they can't afford to draw the turn it comes in. A T1 SF on the play is lethal, they often have to accept fetch only hands and have to pop a petal to loot. Sometimes it is buying a turn or two that enables the drawing of RIP, which you only have a 40 pc chance of having with 4 copies.

    BTW, why 4 o ring? Due to eching truth a split with BL is normal, surely, since Echoing Truth is played in the format and the cards are nearly functionally identical bar O ring can hit your stuff? Thalia is normally a maindeck card too, especially in any meta with Sneak and Show. Field Marshals used to be in early iterations of the deck, but to see so many combat winning cards and so few "screw your mana" cards is rare. If your meta is super hatebear and midrange heavy then I could understand it, but the Thalia is one of those "Stax" elements that work so well.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Mono-White Clerics
    I was thinking of alms collector. Flashing him in via Cavern in response to Brainstorm is strong. Trouble is you may be playing with a bunch of casual players who don't play Legacy, thus no Brainstorms until somebody comes along and shows off the power of the Most Broken Card in Legacy TM.

    Glowrider is an excellent ability, obviously Thalia is better but you want clerics.
    An auto include, even if it is slow.

    I completely forgot about Leonin Arbiter. It is an absolute slam dunk four of, the whole format is based on fetchlands (all the blue decks) and searching (all the rest- infernal tutor, slyvan scrying, crop rotation, stoneforge mystic, green sun's zenith, entomb, goblin matron even.

    Given that you have reminded me explictly about it....



    That would be my starting point for a normal legacy field.
    Remember a lot of cards in Legacy are powerful and hatebears can hose them like d n t because they put a clock and keep pressure from all angles.
    There is no reason without a cleric lord that Glowrider can't be Thalia, but to keep it a themed Legacy deck, this would be the start for me. There is a lot of landkill here- 4 wasteland, 1 GQ (which can act as a Strip Mine with arbiter), Geddon, and of course Arbiter which screws fetches over.
    Some of the other cards screw over well known combos (that was why I wanted preacher, btw). The only thing is the deck is now a cleric deck with no lords, but since no lords interfere with the ways most people win in Legacy (comboing t2/3, drawing their deck and controlling, dropping hate pieces t1/2 to screw up mana, or playing hatebear decks), they would be weak.............

    As for the board you would have to play a few vs your meta. Remember, the closer they get to playing real Legacy decks the better your deck will be. If all they are doing is dropping mid range casual stuff your lords and the like would become better, although having said that so would vial/dude/dude/geddon.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on [Primer] R/W Prisons ("Sun and Moon" etc.)
    It is a "feel bad" for new players, and indeed some older ones who don't know when to scoop, and most casuals. Most of the older ones well versed in older formats know better, and despite WOTC's attempts at drawing casuals in, where they elevated futility and incompetence to art forms, casuals still are not battering down the door to play Standard. As regards new players, WOTC pursue them like a wolf with muzzle outstretched, to quote Ovid (and we all know what he meant when he said it), and their desire to get them playing Standard overrules all- like a bank offering the best deals to new customers. LD keeps greedy manabases honest and hurts public enemy number one - Tron. It also makes people sequence their spells differently and play around potential draws, on both sides of the board. Legacy players accept it in the form of Wasteland and it makes for a splendid format.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Mono-White Clerics
    I would run it with
    23 land, with ⁴4"cavern, 4 port, 4wasteland included in that, plus 2 karakas
    4 vial
    4 mom
    4 prelate
    The commander anti draw cleric.

    4swords
    I might look towards a worship in the board depending on wgat is chosen.

    After that it gets hard, v few clerics. Plenty of decent modern level hate bears. Maybe remorseful is ok main if you can search for it. Selfless has the issue of not stopping format defining cards like terminus or toxic deluge. Most of the clerics are respectable only.
    I would look at abolisher and canonist as your go to, a couple of canonist main, a couple of abolisher (say 3) main too. The probem is there is no universal dude like thalia, most are narrow. If you areborepared to stretch to non clerics then some recruiter otg is good at getti g silver bullets. I think if you did a solitary one of like relic warder may be ideal.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Mono-White Clerics
    Depends who you are playing against. Burn decks would find this type of deck hard as would a couple of tempo non combo decks, at least when the deck gets tuned they may..
    If you wanted a viable Legacy cleric deck to take on a few of the top archetypes then I would recommend viewing it as a hatebear deck with a cleric theme- which means maindeck hatebears that are clerics need to be the focus.

    Cavern, wastelands and probably 4 aether vial are a must, you could probably use mutavault too and some Karakas. Obviously a fair chunk of money! You want to resolve the clerics, Cavern does that. Aether Vial helps too.

    The most impactful hate clerics are
    Sanctum prelate (one of the best critters in Legacy)
    Aethersworn canonist (ditto, although it is a board card more often than not)
    Mother of runes (ditto)
    Remorseful cleric (potentially in a few decks, bin hate is good although t2 is slow)
    selfless spirit (far less relevant than you would think though)
    Relic warder (a good board card)
    preacher (ditto)
    shroud granting cleric- true beleiver....
    There is also a commander cleric that reads "if a player would draw >1 card, you each draw one instead" or something like. That would be quite playable too, an out of bolt range anti brainstorm.

    one of the cheaper 1/1 clerics sacrifices to blink all dudes, which could kill a 20/20 token, for example, but it costs 4.

    You would want 4 STP in the build, forget the rest like Pariah and the tutors you mentioned. You could probably only affford a couple of slots to "cleric lords", but since you want a tribal cleric deck and a reason to run clerics as such then a couple is reasonable. A couple of them are strong against burn/ur delver at least.
    Other than that there are some black clerics to look into if you want it not mono w, but really Legacy is about hate- and that means Prelate et al.


    If you just want it casual then stay with what you have planned.
    Pauper clerics might be a thing too.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Enchantress
    I thought S n T was pretty bad vs Enchantress unless it has the nuts-
    (a) Enchantress runs RIP helm, so the Show bit can be a bit whiffy if you put in half the combo.I mean dropping a t2 Show only for Helm to appear on the other side is bad as helm can take a fatty, but when they hold RIP or have it down it is worse
    (b) Solitary confinement beats damage in S N T bar Emmy game 1 and can soft lock them
    (c) Enchantress runs Emmy itself- see (a)
    (d) Enchantress runs O ring effects to hit Sneak and Elephant grass, meaning a lot of mana is needed to cast or cheat Sneak and attack with Emmy on the same turn if Grass is down.
    (e) casting Show can enable the Enchantress deck to suddenly go overboard, - it is one of the slower combo decks but once it has a couple of draw cards down with sanctum in the deck it can sometimes go off, casting Show seems likely to precipitate that critical mass.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Soldier Stompy
    He is spot on, on both counts.

    Firstly, you need minimum 8 accelerants, perhaps 9. 4 Tomb 4 Mox or 4 Tomb 3 Mox, 2 City etc.
    The deck also needs Cavern of Souls, no question. It is not an Aether Vial deck and so 4 are essential.

    On the other point, Preeminent needs an attack phase to implement. The deck would invariably cast Chalice or Sup field over Preeminent t1 on the play over preeminent, because Storm reanimator and combo all outpace ANY creature deck that does not disrupt. Legacy is not about dropping ten power t2, that is too late. Give me two power and disruption, followed by a bit more disruption and a bit more power. It is what the deck is about, it does not race, it joggs, but it ties the opponent's shoelaces together. You need disruption t1, t2 at the latest, but normally t1. I am happy to drop Chalice, Thalias etc. t1 as they dusrupt. Preeminent at best gets me a second dude t2, which is not enough. If it cost 1 then it would be better, but normally it hits t2 which is too late to disrupt, and without disruption you are not winning.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Unlimited Timetwister Fake?
    You need a loupe- hit the black lines to the side with it (solid black line, separate layer etc), the dots on the back (the famous red dot pattern on the green, for example), the mana symbols, the name, the rosette pattern in general etc. Compare with UNL cards only, pref more than one. Does not have to be a TTW, but best if it is.

    I would not worry about the slightly higher 2 if the light test, weight, feel, and loupe are all in order. The wearing looks consistent as stated above. feel is very important- if it feels glossy/wrong, worry. I have seen variation in the colourless mana symbols on revised.
    Also remember if you go on any forum like mtg finance you can bet your power 9 or whatever that when you post this someone will say "hate to break it to you, its fake" just because they can. It will normally be under a post or two saying "it is fine".
    Posted in: Card Authentication
  • posted a message on Planeswalker Masterpieces
    I am delighted the new walker MPs are not in boosters
    I want spread of values in boosters when I draft, and all MPs do is drop the price of the other cards, leaving everyone with nothing unless they get the lottery ticket prize. I don't want to gamble and buy lottery tickets, I want to draft and walk away with a bit of cardboard back most weeks that I can trade instantly, store for five years and then sell/trade, and one way or the other turn into something I want. That does not happen when every card in the set is worth sod all.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [Primer] R/W Prisons ("Sun and Moon" etc.)
    I think the main is pretty close to standard.
    As regards the the board, the only thing that strikes me is 2 Leyline. With 4 you get a 40 pc chance of one in the opener, and the card shines when it is there. If the card is important you need ⁴4, if not then I would say cut it completely and run runed halo as a 2 of.
    The format is split between aggro control decks like human and spirits, which are not awful matches, counterspell based board control which is hard, tron which is ok, affinity based decks (there are two archetypes) and some aggressive stuff that acts like combo and can put stupid power on the board, such as hollow one or the new vengevine decks,and good stuff decks as exemplified by mardu pyromancer. There are plenty of others like storm, ironworks combo, scapeshift etc. However, the overwhelming message is rest in peace is golden right now, as is stony silence. I would run 3 of each. I would jeep boil as it us good vs uw control. I think spyglass is probably the easiest cut, it is a reasonable card now but not the powerhouse the others are.
    Posted in: Control
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