Magic Market Index for Feb 8th, 2018
 
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  • posted a message on [Primer] Mono Red Prison
    Stupid question, but why is this in developing?
    Man we need a sort out- threads like this should be in the main, alongside Miracles etc. Last I looked infect was lurking in developing as well.
    Why don't you pm a mod and get the deck moved to established (and call it dragon stompy as well as Mono Red prison, as that is what I have seen it referred to as most often)
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Soldier Stompy
    I think not.
    Her home is probably some D N T style list with vial, or humans style list with vial. We need Moxen and sol lands, and so UW is a big, big ask.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on [Primer] Enduring Ideal
    I think with the speeded up nature of the format that I am going to have to go all in on a lotus bloom build. I feel also that in my blue splash version that search for azcanta is just too slow outside of a very few matches and is thus heading to the board. A shame really, but then modern has become quicker with less in the way of cards that stop things, other than those creatures that stop our prison pieces.
    These are depressing times, creatures, creatures, bloody creatures with removal, whilst permanents that are not creatures get weaker.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Deck] Pillow Fort Prison- White-X Enchantment Control
    At some point I am going to update the primer but apart from the match ups it is ridiculous how little they have printed these past five years.....
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Mono snow-U tempo
    Would you not be better off with one drops you can sac to counter spells?
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on as a female player the new art style females is getting really annoying
    I don't like the depiction of men either from an intellectual rather than aesthetic point of view, and they have done nothing about it apart from make the muscles bigger with every set.
    Take a look at real male soldiers, as in actually physically fit men who fight and die, then have a look at what we see on Mtg; it is as far from real as the metal bikini art is for women. Only for women it is considered sexualised, but for male characters it is not.
    In short


    =



    Still in terms of art I don't like the modern homogenised style.
    To be brutally honest, I liked the old artist lead approach that bought us Foglios et al. Sure some sucked, but the variation was appealing.
    Nobody would be interested in Mishra's factory winter if it were an old card but with the modern art. I would ratehr a Stasis every now and then, regardless of how sexualised it is.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Missing threads
    Seem to be a few threads gone awol these past couple of days
    Legacy Pox
    Modern Eldra Tron
    Modern Grxis DS
    etc.
    What gives? Who is the phantom thread stealer....?
    They don't appear in archives afaik.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Jeskai Nahiri Control or R/W Nahiri Prison/ Control?
    RW is better than Jeskai Nahiri.
    Honestly, the RW Nahiri deck is solid enough, just has issues with Tron, control etc.
    Csn be tuned to most metas.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Deck] Pillow Fort Prison- White-X Enchantment Control
    Seal Awsy is much better.
    If, and it is a huge "if", the meta becomes so aggressive that this is good, then Nodes is probably better.
    Flexibility is more important in Modern. Every now and then a spirit or DS tempo deck wins as we can't get our stuff under them. By and large the Runed Halo/Ghostly/Leyline package with a couple of Nodes or Seal Away is enough early doors against most aggro decks. S field slows the fetch heavy decks too. One solitary resolved Sphere of Safety is enough to get ahead mid game and stay there against faster decks. My aggro matches, such as Affinity, D Shadow area decent and do not need more It is tron and control that are harder.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    There has been a lot of Legacy going/first second talk.
    I don't think it matters as much in legacy. I play a lot of Legacy and track the decks I play going first and second, there are not many decks I play where the play draw really matters, although my data is patchy in that the format is vast and the sample size is relatively tiny, being the result of my events and my testing sessions with test partners. That said I don't play tempo decks.

    There are a few balls-out fragile force checker decks in the format, they to win t1, an example is Belcher, and going first is a significant advantage as you negate the prospect of Daze on the play and the opponent only has a 39 or whatever % chance of a Force in hand on your game-winning T1 . (If the opposing blue deck is on the play they get access to Brainstorm et al., meaning they can see more cards to see the game saving Force, if it is a non blue deck they will probably rip cards from your hand or drop a taxing card like Chalice/3 sphere). So for those decks first is key, which is why those decks are rare in the format.
    Leylines of Sanctity and, more importantly in the format, of the Void, which is a wincon with Helm of Obedience in some shells, are both common and can enable you to get the jump on some degenerate strategies t0. Maze of ith and Karakas can often do work too against cheated threats, and are uncounterable. Dark ritual and many other sources of fast mana (mox, sol lands, spirit G effects) mean that you can really catch up going second and do whatever your deck does, and selection of cards means that you can access catch up cards. Other pitch spells also exist and have limited use- you might see Pyrokinesis in Goblins, for example. Daze and Wasteland get stronger on the play, sure, but the decks that run them only generate one mana per turn, plenty of other decks in the format generate more on turn 1, making daze weaker. The only tempo deck in the format that breaks this rule does not run Daze (small Eldrazi), whilst the one deck in Legacy that wants to go second, manaless dredge, is immune to Wasteland and to Daze, to a large extent.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer] R/W Prisons ("Sun and Moon" etc.)
    Quote from ZigurotPrime »
    Quote from drmarkb »
    At this point in time RW needs something that makes UWx a winnable match and something to make the deck perform faster against the linear decks without too much disadvantage. The pyro prison lists offee a fair bit. The answers are there for some decks. but selection is still awful.
    I just can't see it right now.
    I guess given where the meta is I would go all out for E bridge and take my chances....
    The new cards are ok, I can't see them being what the deck in any of its forms need.

    So, I run Pyro Prison and was wondering why bridge doesn't see much use in the RW version. I normally just use mom and pop to blow up bridge if I need to, so maybe that would be a good idea to still keep the Emrakul/Nahiri play on.


    The reason is just Bridge/Emmy nonbos.
    I personally favour bridge, it can allow you to play Spirit Guides and profit in an attempt to benefit by being hellbent, it can protect PWs I guess K command and abrade are more common now though.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Need some input on a BlackWhite deck I'm developing.
    Excluding tabby you are running 22 mana lands. 22 lands and smallpox is a huge no-no, small pox in Legacy (pox) decks run 25/6 lands, and you are very vulnerable to Wasteland yourself. What will happen is your angels will stop Lilly OTV going up or simply get discarded. Decks need to benefit from Lilly going up or become hellbent naturally quickly. Ghostly Prison is a reasonably good card with mass mana denial, but you are not going to protect Lilly with it. I would say Lilly last hope is a must, it is a way better wincon than 5 mana critters.

    8 win con critters is way too many, and Exalted A is a weak card.

    You really lack any ramp, and would be better off with Lingering souls in the mix (see Lilly's plus ones plus smallpox). You need to be able to profit from small pox. You could try Flagstones of trokair, and Mox Diamonds are popular in this type of deck.

    Any B heavy deck runs Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth as standard. Basics are key to Legacy, and Godless shrine is not where you want to be. Not being wastelanded and Blood Mooned turn 1 is where you want to be. Mox diamond is common in BW Pox lists to circumvent Moon and fix mana whilst ramping.

    Cursed scroll could offer board control and make you benefit from hellbent.
    You lack draw, some options are Bob (unlikely with your top end), phyrexian arena (too expensive). Some of the colorless lands offer a bit, sanitarium can filter lands, for example.

    I would recommend after you settle on a main a board of 4 Leyline OTV (for storm, graveyard decks like reanimator, dredge etc.) and 4 Leyline of sanctity (for storm, burn and discard heavy decks and many more that win with a targeted ability like Helm/Leyline decks) plus 2-3 chains of mephistopheles, for Brainstorm decks.

    The main issue you have is speed, Sol land decks with Eldrazi and Rabblemasters deployed T1 will be problematic, storm goes off T2 5% of the time and t3 much more regularly, and you don't have that much t1 interaction.

    Traditionally this type of deck runs either ensnaring bridge or similar or is more of a dead guy ale deck.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from ktkenshinx »
    Quote from drmarkb »
    The data I really want is threefold

    (a) format event attendance, mapped over set releases and large events, and bans/unbans, over a five year period.
    This would give us a clue as to what each ban or unban accomplishes from event attendance pov.

    It may also enable us to see how much the health of one format affects the attendance of another, although disentangling the data to isolate the effects might be challenging. When modern attendance drops where does it go? When overall attendance goes down does it go down proportionally for each format?

    (B) and (C) are probably hard to come by and likely out of our reach. For (A), we do have full attendance data for all Modern GP and SCG Open/Classic events basically for the existence of the format. I think we'd also have some Hareruya event attendance, at least for their bigger events, as well as some of the Italian events. It's definitely not FNM-level data, but it's something, and one could try and identify trends in that data as related to B&R decisions.


    Yes, I expect neither the b or c part of my data wants.
    It would be interesting looking at larger events, but I would guess many have their own unique factors associated with them. E. G. a modern GP placed in an expensive city or with a Legacy GP nearby the month after might be lower than it otherwise would be. Fnm and online data would be ideal.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    The data I really want is threefold

    (a) format event attendance, mapped over set releases and large events, and bans/unbans, over a five year period.
    This would give us a clue as to what each ban or unban accomplishes from event attendance pov.

    It may also enable us to see how much the health of one format affects the attendance of another, although disentangling the data to isolate the effects might be challenging. When modern attendance drops where does it go? When overall attendance goes down does it go down proportionally for each format?



    (b) the wotc feedback data from survey, currently garnered after each set. Do a large pc of people moan about formats in the freeform section?

    (c) pack sales per set, which could tell us if total event attendance is correlated in any way with pack sales, and again we could see the masters set effect on attendance, which I wager would be negligible. If a Std set sells well does it influence Modern uptake? I suspect that if a set sells especially well has little impact on Modern.

    I would not be surprised if wotc made recent ban decisions that were more influenced by event attendance (and the need to sell masters sets in the one off case of Jace). Total supposition, of course, but the data is not out there.


    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    People want bans/unbans on how the format feels to them. Not on how it is. Data needs to be taken on how people feel about the format, not just on how fast the data says it is.

    I find it interesting length of games are being measured in turns, not actions, and not actual time to complete a game. A turn takes longer if there are more things to do on it. Cheap spells, moxen, force, bainstorm, and fast mana (moxen, sol lands) mean that a t3 game of Vintage or Legacy takes longer than Modern t3 wins. Perhaps when esyablishing how fast games are should be measured on completed actions by each player.
    Also the difference between game one and two needs to be noted. With hateful cards like RIP and Stony Silence about game twos often end up way longer than game one.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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