All users will need to merge their MTGSalvation account with a new or existing Twitch account starting Sept 25th. You can merge your accounts by clicking here. Have questions? Learn more here.
Dismiss
 
Magic Market Index for June 8th, 2018
 
Ravnica: The Living Guildpact
 
Magic Market Index for June 1st, 2018
  • posted a message on Soldier Stompy
    Well new toys incoming. Militia Bugler- might smooth the deck, esp in game 2 when we have fewer soldiers and cards like containment priest.

    I have not soldiered in ages, I did play it for a couple of hours with friends prior to GP Birmingham, but sadly my job stopped me from attending- I can only get hols outside of teaching time. In fact my Legacy time has been severely reduced this year- too much Mtg finance, not enough Mtg. The deck really seems to have recognition, and is only going to get better.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on [Deck] Pillow Fort Prison- White-X Enchantment Control
    Yes, I remembered it a while after.
    Just to be clear I am not recommending it.
    Indeed I am not recommending Karma/Urborg [it is mentioned in the primer because one deck has done it once), although it is a hell of a trick. If you do resolve it later on it can often be dead in two turns or one. Many pillow fort lists can not die to certain decks, so that how they win is irrelevant almost in those matches.
    For the record, rather tangentially regarding white with black (or at least a some black sources) I think Lich's mastery could work in some context somewhere....eventually.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [Deck] Pillow Fort Prison- White-X Enchantment Control
    Love the halo on Karma Urborg tech.
    There is an enchantment that prevents damage to you during your turn that also does this....
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Does anyone else feel "lost" in Modern?
    Being good at finance requires you to play not every format, but be aware of every format. It is tricky. You can't play Standard and finance games easily. Modern maybe.

    It also needs you to actively not play the best deck. Ever. That is the hard part. I sold Infect, Tron x2 and Affinity in 18 months as complete entities near their price zeniths. I sold merfolk and boggles at their price height too. Such sales are essential, they generate masses of cash for buying collections or specific high value targets when many of the low value cards would be hard to shift on their own. I gave great deals and still made a ton. You also need to ruthlessly go through cards not in use time and time again, which is time consuming, and then do it with cards in use to ask what would happen to deck Y if card x were reprinted. You also need to know trends when going through trade and store binders, which takes yet more time.
    Playing the best deck in Modern is normally a way to get the pointy end of the banhammer up where the sun does not shine with no vaseline to ease its path. Pod, Infect and Twin were to some extent predictable bans, I kept twin for example because I knew when the ban came the cards would keep value bar a couple, but I sold every spare for the deck.

    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Does anyone else feel "lost" in Modern?
    For me the ELO removal changed my motivation but it was probably not causal. I never went to a PT when I took it seriously (I only did 3 maybe, I top 8d one), I rarely travelled to GPs and the like anyway, (and when at a GP I found side events more profitable) but whenever you sat down with somebody you had a certain level of respect due to the ranking. I am fortunate to live in a tiny Mtg country, when we had the rankings I spent my time at the top of mine and pretty high up in the UK (I have printouts somewhere of me topping all the different rankings at one time), I have three county/territory/state champs, I won countless pre release events and have a few nice trophies, I helped design a couple of decks in the late nineties that won our tiny nationals and have played in the old Euros via our nationals (in the days when they paid flights and accommodation) and later in the UK nationals via Ranking and qualifiers. Nowadays even that has diminished, I have only entered one WMCQ and it was tiny, I got to the semis with a brew as it happened. But most of my contemporaries from back then do not play seriously now, and that will happen to all the current players, from casuals to Pro players from ten years ago some of whom are barely remembered from outside their circle. If people starting today want to be remembered as great players I think the time is basically gone for them to do that. The standard today is so, so high and the volume of reported events so huge that it barely matters who is very good and who is great, and the system to tell the difference probably does not really exist. There are masses of named players now generating content but it is so ephemeral.

    When people start talking about doing X/Y/Z they have more opportunities to do massive events now, and some are pretty scornful of those who don't. Go big or go home and all that. It is a common mentality. Truth be told there are loads of great players out there who could be pros, people get good at the game quickly. But they spend a hell of a lot on Mtg to do so and when they are going and spending £100 to play an event every weeek and stay overnight with travel etc. I am sat at home, and have made that amount of money in trades and sales. I think in the end that sums it up for me. I don't want to pay for the game any more, I want it to be cost neutral and have an asset that grows, and if that means no RPTQs or PPTQs then so be it. That is my goal, and at the end of it I can live without the glory because I realise the emphemeral nature of it. I will be remembered by my current contemporaries and a source of decks and cards and my former ones as a spike, and in the end I don't really mind either way.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Legacy Angel Stompy
    Basically any angel stompy list is going to be viable, because all stompy lists are viable to some extent. Obviously Angel stompy has a plethora of big angels, and few small ones, nor a ringleader/enlistment officer effect.
    Angel used to be the big kill critter type in some stax lists.
    Two obvious points- lotus petal is terrible with trinisphere (or enemy chalice set to zero, which can be a decent play - you may even set it to zero yourself against various storm decks game 1- t2 drop chalice on 1, chalice on zero). E Spirit Guides would work better as you won't be short of white (E being better than their red Simian cousin due to one shot activation of Shalai.
    O ring should be split with similar effects too avoid echoing truth.

    Speaking of storm, your game two won't actually be that good with just chalice, s field and 3 sphere- hurkyls can get them out of 3 sphere/COTV easily without you having hexproof down, and they can always go off turn 1 about 5% of the time, and turn 2 more often. Soldier stompy gets Thalias of both varieties to disrupt early on (e.g. playing Thalia t2 after chalice on zero can give two hate pieces, followed by a t3 big thalia/chalice on 1/s field, you are hoping for Shalai over Thalia and it is that much later. One of the stregths of stompy is the storm game is strong, it would not take much to your board to include canonist or rule of law effects. It is a shame there are few disrupting angels in the early slots.

    Moat is strong vs Elves, Merfolk, D N T, Maerick, (and even soldier stompy) infect and burn, but Elves will kill it with Rec sage pretty quickly and infect will counter it. It does not hit depths, belcher, lands, reanimators, sneak/omnitell, enchantress and only partially hits grixis and pile. I play a fair few decks with moat and it is fine, but not amazing.

    Angel of jubilation is much stronger in legacy than modern, I would play another- hurting fetches is super strong.








    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Does anyone else feel "lost" in Modern?
    Most spikes end up not being spike.
    I used to be spike. I think most people go through it.
    The glass trophy or money win, or even the stupid local dominance can be reward enough.
    In the old days those chess style rankings could be a powerful motivator. With me the conversion was dramatic, practically Damascene. Nowadays when I run into long-since-quit spike buddies and tell them how my constructed crowds view me now as the guy with the brew they laugh, because they knew me as a ranking point win pc junkie. Ironically I don't think spike goes away, he gets sublimated. When ranking points went and real life commitments reduced the amount of practice I could put in anyway I swapped my focus. I started playing decks I wanted to play, something alien to me. At first I found it frustrating, and especially when I lost to players I would have often expected to beat, but I stuck with it, and quit Standard, buying and selling into nascent Modern and eventually Legacy. I built up a huge collection, when the grinder Spikes went on road trips I might treat myself to the odd RL card instead. I started building top tier decks not for me but for others to borrow. The freedom of not playing top tier gave me opportunity to acquire top tier decks after relevant reprints, and in particular to sell on draft winnings not caring about Standard. In the end I became the go to guy to borrow decks off, an evangelical for eternal formats, always able to loan decks at the drop of a hat. The spikiness never really went away, but for me winning mtg became winning at mtg finance whilst winning at Mtg took second fiddle, and in the mean time I could play whatever I liked. Literally. I still drafted competitively, I still played to the best I could but I could enter events with a brew or ancient build long past tiers and that felt so, so liberating. Even today locally the phrase "watch me lose to tier five jank" has been uttered by more than one player when pairings are announced. If I go 2-2 with a ten year old archetype most Legacy players will respect that, in a way most Standard players of spike tendency would be scornful.
    I think the data of "he beat the field with a brew' are gone in Standard, long long gone. I think they only exist on the margins of Legacy and not much more in Modern. You can, every now and then, run a brew and top 8 a fifty player plus event. I don't think you can do that at 500 player events.
    Fundamentally you have to ask do I want max win pc or not? Brewing is horribly ineffective in ratio of time put in to effective result. That time is better spent learning match ups. If you don't brew, learn two decks that are good at different times and be done with it. Don't worry about what someone thinks about your deck, respect varies from person to person, some respect skill, some respect innovation, some respect good manners, just learn two good ones, be it boggles or humans or whatever, just run with them. Forget leveraging skill or any such, just learn two solid decks, most decks do have some kind of skill anyway.
    For what it is worth I would recommend not worrying too much about win pc, in five years half the people who you beat will be quit or playing commander, and those worrying about win pc the most tend to be those spending most to play mtg.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [Deck] Pillow Fort Prison- White-X Enchantment Control
    Any Wx enchantment control needs 4 halo, 4 Leyline main, plus some attack taxes to actually start getting "free" wins.
    The moment you start Path ing and casting sorceries the enchantment count becomes lower, and it ends up being a good stuff control deck that starts to lose game one to aggro decks that the ghostly/sphere/Leyline/halo decks could beat. That is ok in itself, because good stuff decks are fine, but other good stuff decks exist, and they are better.
    As a rule, if you can look at a list and Lingering Souls would improve it or is worthy of consideration it probably is not going to work out as good as, for example, Jeskai control.

    Black has toys that fit enchantment control. Black has bitterblossom, which is good with solemnity and unlife, and 1cc discard, which is just good. Discard from the board or main is strong, flexible support.
    Lich's mastery might be great, but the big issue is a bunch of instants, plus no Leylines make the deck like an Esper control deck without the card advantage.
    If you add in cards like phyrexian arena you might get it back. To a greater extent spheres and Leylines will start generating free wins vs Storm and other linear decks like valakut.

    My feeling is fatal push and path are not going to make the deck better, at least in large numbers, there are better shells for them. The point of the deck is it gets free wins vs Storm, Valakut, Burn and Merfolk, plus of course Death's Shadow and many human builds, whilst being weaker to good stuff decks or any counter heavy decks and Tron. When every enchantment counts towards sphere of safety and Halo is so good Vs many decks, I can't see adding a bunch of one for one critter removal in their place helping, we already stuff critters senseless, making them pay 10 to attack does that. Adding discard does give a flexible game, and will help. So a brutality board seems strong, a thoughtseize here or there too, but for critter control I am not so sure.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Legacy Ban List Discussion Thread (Read OP before Posting)
    Think about Drs and a watch list. Can we say that it would be the case with Drs? I do a lot of private and public card shifting, I have been doing the finance game a while, I can't see people behaving that way with Legacy. Standard, sure, Modern too. But Legacy? A format that is expensive, difficult to swap into and out of, moves glacially and where most people, especially outside the US, just want to play their pet strategy. Hell I play Parfait and Stax variants still.
    If Drs was on the watch list, nobody is going to shy away from him, he is already cheap. Pile and Grixis players still have a bunch of expensive cards that will form a strong deck, and putting Drs on the list won't flood the market with their U Seas any more than it would with Elves' Cradles. It may have that effect on potential Lands or depth players if, say in some alternate world, their tutor or Depths itself was under threat, I can see that, but Tabernacle's cost is more of a bar to Lands, illustrating that Legacy prices stop such panic selling or buying. People do not switch much in Legacy due to availability issues, people swap slowly and a watch list would not change that. Realistically what cards do Wizards ever ban? It is rare for them to ban much, and when they do they rarely totally nerf strategies or decks... Miracles got the big ban but UWx is still exists.
    Had Top gone on a watch list I would wager Painter players might have been more wary, and Imperial Recruiter might have been harder to shift than it already was, but I can't see anyone shying away from Miracles, Tundras, Brainstorms or Forces etc. because of it.
    If anything I would have played a bit more Prison Pox because in it I used a lot of singletons and Top/Fetch back then. Now I can't use that strategy in the same way I regret not playing it more.

    A watch list does not have to be formal, merely a card being mentioned in those months where the van list for Legacy is no change would be sufficient.
    I am not advocating it for rotating formats at all for the reasons you describe.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Legacy Ban List Discussion Thread (Read OP before Posting)
    There have always been decks to beat the best deck.
    I think there is diversity in Legacy but less than I would expect. People can't swap between decks in paper easily. A storm player can swap to Reanimator maybe, but if they don't own Cities they can't swap to most stompy decks. So to an extent paper mtg negates diversity reduction, but even so I think Modern has more, although it is not as fun a format for me.

    If decks were as cheap as Modern or Standard we would see action on the ban front.


    I am salty over splash damage from Top... I wanted CB gone if anything. I am not that concerned that splash damage from Drs would be any greater. Elves would be strong still. Maybe some Nic fit and Deadguy decks get worse but they would not go down to unplayable like Imperial Painter did.
    I do think there needs to be a formal watch list fir Legacy. The format is expensive, and being forewarned allows people to make informed choices.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on [DECK] Pox Primer
    Yes, to both. Prison Pox players will have used these in both contexts. I certainly have over the years.
    Bridge can be considered to be a removal spell, really.
    NV is probably more common than 3 sphere.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [DECK] Pox Primer
    Nice to see another kmc Ryosuke list doing well.
    Also note that another player, a Clayton Levi iirc, has placed well in 30 player events recently 3 times.
    Of course not all smaller events do get reported, so some others might be doing quite well. I play in 25 to 30 player events and we do not report (I have not poxed for a while, before anyone asks).
    It is always interesting that whenever Reid Duke posts a Pox article, which is rare, it us nearly always the same old list, and then he goes and plays BUG or some such. Fair enough, but I feel there is more to be gained from looking at lists placing well regularly.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Legacy Ban List Discussion Thread (Read OP before Posting)
    If there is no need for bans now then there was no need for bans when Top left. In which case let us have Top back. Bans don't happen just because they are needed, there is more than that in play.
    If I want to face midrange heavy mtg (and Grixis is midrange that can tempo) then I can play other formats. I want to play Legacy which should to me be as diverse as Modern with prison and combo far more viable and Grixis et al just a small part.
    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Legacy Ban List Discussion Thread (Read OP before Posting)
    If you call the grixis/pile the same deck, as many do, then it does put one deck miles above the others, old miracles percentage above levels. If you don't then grixis is the best deck by a margin.

    I think the reason brainstorm is ingrained aside from the obvious fact it has been there since day one is it is seen as package with force. Pretty much force and to a lesser extent daze keep Belcher et al in check. Having one mana and a brainstorm on t1 means the chances of having force or daze improve significantly vs those types of decks on the play. People tolerate that because Belcher et al are just not fun, even though BS is busted. Drs offers a bit of main deck bin hate for Reanimators, which are a more tolerated archetype.

    I would certainly want unbans as suggested, but am rather tired of Drs plus blue shells myself.
    I wonder if silent gravestone was a specific attempt to nerf drs that failed. Probably not but you never know.


    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Legacy Ban List Discussion Thread (Read OP before Posting)
    Day one undefeated at GP Brum had 1 pile and 4 delver players.
    Elves too, with two non DRS decks to finish. That sounds like a lot of DRS to me and thus a lot of incoming ban talk. You will note that in this tiny sample DRS probably has four more copies than Brainstorm unless their lists are super weird.

    Now unfortunately due to the probably intentional decision to schedule it on the Fri and thus exclude those with work commitments (those who can actually afford the Legacy cards) I am not there to pick up the scuttlebutt and chatter on DRS, but if the top 8 on day two looks similar I feel there will be a lot of Drs ban talk in the bars tonight.

    Ultimately I don't think any of the decks suddenly get knocked value-wise if they did ban it, so it is not a Vintage Shops or Modern Twin situation, I suspect it will get the banhammer eventually as I suspect most people don't want to play Legacy to play this type of match, and the card has not become ingrained like broken Brainstorm has.



    Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.