I've played 3 4-5 round modern tourneys since I last posted about Zacama. I don't really see the draw to it in the main. The only time it actually got me there was against humans when I needed removal and walking ballista was named by meddling mage. Though in that situation I could have made it a priority to transmute for EE if I didnt have zacama in the deck. I really like the card but I don't see it helping in any match ups. We have radiant fountain for lifegain, we have silver bullets for both creatures or artifacts/enchantments. If it could shoot pw or players then it would be a shoe in. I'm playing some games with a few friends tomorrow who basically have a gauntlet and I am going to keep Zacama in for now. After that I am going to try a trinket mage in place of it.
I saw that list. I think I am going to try a trinket mage instead of my one of reclamation sage and see how it is doing but I dont really want to take out an explore or land for another.
I have seen Zacama in some lists. That looks fun for fnm but not sure if it is optimal. Does it help any of our bad match ups?
I saw that list. I think I am going to try a trinket mage instead of my one of reclamation sage and see how it is doing but I dont really want to take out an explore or land for another.
I have seen Zacama in some lists. That looks fun for fnm but not sure if it is optimal. Does it help any of our bad match ups?
Yeah Scourge is so much better right now and Driven to Despair is a pet card of mine. Hopefully I will get to play it again in a few months. Why are we in the combo section?
How are you finding actually getting Nezahal out? I feel like Apprentice Wizard could do some serious work here. Teferi, Temporal Archmage could help to cast him and keep mana open for answers too.
I like Apprentice Wizard a lot, I've never seen him before. I haven't had to cast the dino for more than 9 mana before and even that is rare. He is a big beater and a draw engine but even my play group says that it feels pretty bad to had to go after him because he usually isnt the biggest threat on the board ever. Teferi is a strong pw and probably would be great. I would add him but I am trying to keep my curve lower.
EDIT: This is what I have been playing. I copied ISB's list and then cut some money cards and lowered the curve a bit. I know some of the cards are cheap on MTGO that I cut but I like to have my decks matching when I make them in paper as well. This will only be my 3rd paper deck so I am pretty stoked.
I like the deck a lot. I am playing it on mtgo because I had like 95% of the deck already. The main change I did was add howling mine, temple bell, and Kami of the Crescent Moon. The cheap card draw is really great. I feel you need to hit land drops and having less than 3-4 cards in the hand feels kind of dead in the water lol. This obviously isnt great when you play in a very fast meta with combos but if you are playing battlecruiser or mike/trike / toothnnail type combos then you dont mind letting people play their stuff because we're bouncing it back anyways.
Yeah I love new ideas with dredge but I would rather use Shriekhorn than change the whole mana base. I play the rainbow mana base but I do not want to play any Spirebluff Canals.
Is anyone else kind of annoyed that BBE and JTMS can be unbanned but GGT can't? I feel like it would bring us up to speed and help the rock/paper/scissors dynamic. Yes we do beat control but I wouldn't say it is much better than 55/45, also brainstorm lets them dig deep for gy hate. BBE isn't as big of a deal I feel, we can already out grind decks, BBE into scooze which will be annoying but most of the time they will hit single target removal or lotv who isn't a problem already.
Also I have been a huge advocate for Driven // Despair but I think that now Scourge Devil is just infinitely better than it and Rally the Peasants because we want to be more aggro and wide.
Hi everyone, I have this Neheb deck that I actually really like. The only problem is that it is usually just a tad too slow and it runs out of steam if the original set up goes to *****. There are also some cards that I believe I want to put in the deck, I have no idea what I should take out. I am also open to more suggestions as well.
List of cards I want to include and why: Azor's Gateway - I have a lot of mana dumps and looting never hurts Cryptolith Fragment - Not sure if it is worth running a 3 drop mana rock even with it's damage Dire Fleet Daredevil - Most likely going to be used when I need removal in a pinch or when someone plays any card advantage Solemn Simulacrum - Ramp and card draw Steel Hellkite - Gets rid of enchantments and Iona
Blood Sun - Not sure on this one Doubling Cube - Seems good Rolling Earthquake - I need a way to kill creatures with flying. I will just take out Fault Line for it.
I didn't notice the swamp in the list. Yeah, that needs to go, same goes for the forest (although you can make a case for the forest) but still.
Yeah I wouldn't play either. I would probably chuck my deck across the room if I ever drew dakmor salvage and a forest as my opening two lands lmao.
Has anyone been testing Tormenting Voice? I picked a playset from my bulk and I am going to -1 Neonate and -1 Darkblast to make room for 2 just to try it.
Also this has nothing to do with gameplay but I just ordered the 7 foil fetches I need (4 wooded foothills and 3 bloodstained mires) so now I am at 63/75 foil.
I played in 2 Modern double ups at Santa Clara and went 3-0 in both. Matchups were Grixis Death Shadow, RG Tron, GW Value Town, Affinity, Lantern, and Titan Shift. I played horribly vs GW Value Town and I should have lost, the guy who was playing the deck had not been playing it for very long and thankfully he misplayed enough to off set mine but I was playing just sloppy....even forgot to discard to faithless looting twice in one turn but I blame that to playing almost exclusively on mtgo. I'm very happy with the deck and I even think I am going to go to GP Phoenix.
Hey guys, been wanting to get Dredge put together for a while and finally had the time and money to do so over the holidays. I took a rather stock list to a very small event (almost didnt fire...) and went 2-1 losing to Death and Taxes. Pretty much smashed Elves and Affinity though thanks to Conflagerate and Dark Blast.
Anyway, I felt my losses to DnT was due to (in part if not mostly) on bad mull decisions. I remember game three specifically mulling away Conflagerate, double Reunion, and four lands and my next mull was all land, then no land, and I kept a bad 4 because going to 3 seems super bad even for Dredge. In hindsight the original 7 seems like it could have worked just fine and I wasn't thinking about it hard enough. I was hoping for some experienced insight on when to mull and how low to actually go.
You made the correct choice to mull. Just because you didnt get a great 6 or 5 doesnt mean that you shouldnt have mulled, it was still the correct choice. In poker you make the choice that is most likely to happen, just because the card didnt flip right on the river doesnt mean you made the wrong choice, it just means that you werent lucky. I am going to use fake numbers here for the sake of the argument but if mulling will give you a better hand 70% of the time, there will still be 30% of the time when it gets worst but it would not be smart to do the thing that is only correct 30% of the time. I hope that makes sense.
Regarding your deck I would throw the basic swamp in the trash and put back the dakmor salvage. If you don't want to play the dakmor salvage then just take out the swamp and play only 20 lands. I would also take out the basic forest and put back the copperline gorge unless your meta is 50% path decks. Also I would cut to 20 lands (taking out a blackcleave or basic swamp) and add in a finisher like Ivg said. I prefer Driven//Despair, I actually run 2 in the 75 and love it.
Yeah, that mainboard Darkblast should be the 4th Life from the Loam, it's a budget replacement that I'll change in the future if I need, but I really wanted to play the deck right now. Same for City of Brass, which should be another land, but I guess it's ok for the moment.
My questions:
1) I can't afford Thoughtseize and CB atm, so I was thinking about another discard spell (that I own) and use it until I buy them: is it better Duress or Inquisition of Kozilek. I understand that the job of Thoughtseize is to discard hate such as RiP, Cage, Anafenza... so I thought it would be better to run Inquisition since almost all playable cards are cmc3 or less. But I'm scared of those Leyline of the Voids, that's why I'm thinking about Duress insted of IoK. Also, I would add another copy of Darkblast.
2) What would you buy first? Thoughtseize or Collective Brutality?
3) The 3rd Mountain should be another land: Steam Vents, another Blood Crypt or Sheltered Thicket?
4) Isn't there anything better than Bojuka Bog for GY hate? I know that Leyline of the Void is powerful, but it would need 3 slots of the sideboard and I think that's a lot.
5) The last one: I don't have any Abrupt Decay, and I'm doubtful about it since a lot of people say that Maelstrom Pulse is better for this deck's SB. It's also more expensive, so it is worth it?
Thank you and sorry for my english.
I play 1 darkblast instead of the 3rd loam as well. If you have an aggro meta then it is the correct choice I believe.
1. I would go with duress.
2. Collective Brutality. These are sided in very often vs anything we want to have better value per card (midrange)
3. I love steam vents in the deck. With that you can also side 2 sultai charm too.
4. I don't play gy hate in my side. Bog is alright because you can loam it back.
5. I would just replace your abrupt decay and 1 Nature's claim with 2 sultai charm once you get a steam vents.
Hey Sodek - been a while, think i was here with you at the beginning!
I agree that Burning Inquiry is a "after you looted already" type of card. Terrible at getting you started, nuts once your already going for it.
So I dont think you want too many, 2 at the very max. Im struggling to evaluate it as more than a "winmore" card. Are you already pretty happy if you've got a discard outlet and a dredger? Well... usually. But when Inquiry is good, it is bonkers. Hard to make a decision on it, but people are having success with it.
I realise this topic is as old as time itself but... manabases!?! First question(s):
1. Do Bojuka Bog or Ghost Quarter warrant any consideration anywhere in the 75?
2. 19 or 20?
3. Fetches or gold or a mix?!
I am leaning towards a few fetches and a few gemstones, with perhaps a ghost quarter as my 20th land. What are people's thoughts on that overall?
Has anyone seen Emma Handys article on SCG today? She has put a forest in and praised it, since it helps if people go ghost quarter crazy (targetting cards like Copperline). Any thouhgts?!
I have tried a Ghost Quarter in the main and I liked it. I played it in place of a second dakmor salvage but I took out the ghost quarter for it again. I can pretty confidently say that with the current cards we play right now I would never play a forest for a third basic land. I would much rather just play another mountain if a gun is to my head. I also don't see the point in 61 cards when you can very easily just take out a life from the loam or a burning inquiry.
Is there a reason Dredge doesn't use Chromatic Star, Chromatic Sphere, Street Wraith, or Edge of Autumn? I'm sure it's been thoroughly tested. Is it simply that the Neonate and Looting are just better turn 1 plays because they discard and draw? Is it that your hand is somewhat limited because you want to dredge over draw? "Free" Dredge seems like an awful thing to pass up, especially if you can put 10 or 15 cards into your yard on turn 1 with a nut hand... Neonate, a dredger, a wraith, and an edge of autumn is a really fast start. And Cycling is an instant speed ability.
Both Neonate and Looting is so much better than all of those because it lets us discard also. Of course the flashback on the looting is extremely relevant also. The reason legacy dredge plays the street wraith is it can dredge + be removed for ichorid.
Ross Merriam is playing dredge at the SCG Invite and he is playing Burning Inquiry. I have only seen one so far. After testing I still don't think it is right but I'm not Ross Merriam so lets see.
Edit: Ross Merriam goes to 9-4 so we get to play dredge for another week.
I have seen Zacama in some lists. That looks fun for fnm but not sure if it is optimal. Does it help any of our bad match ups?
I have seen Zacama in some lists. That looks fun for fnm but not sure if it is optimal. Does it help any of our bad match ups?
I like Apprentice Wizard a lot, I've never seen him before. I haven't had to cast the dino for more than 9 mana before and even that is rare. He is a big beater and a draw engine but even my play group says that it feels pretty bad to had to go after him because he usually isnt the biggest threat on the board ever. Teferi is a strong pw and probably would be great. I would add him but I am trying to keep my curve lower.
EDIT: This is what I have been playing. I copied ISB's list and then cut some money cards and lowered the curve a bit. I know some of the cards are cheap on MTGO that I cut but I like to have my decks matching when I make them in paper as well. This will only be my 3rd paper deck so I am pretty stoked.
Is anyone else kind of annoyed that BBE and JTMS can be unbanned but GGT can't? I feel like it would bring us up to speed and help the rock/paper/scissors dynamic. Yes we do beat control but I wouldn't say it is much better than 55/45, also brainstorm lets them dig deep for gy hate. BBE isn't as big of a deal I feel, we can already out grind decks, BBE into scooze which will be annoying but most of the time they will hit single target removal or lotv who isn't a problem already.
Also I have been a huge advocate for Driven // Despair but I think that now Scourge Devil is just infinitely better than it and Rally the Peasants because we want to be more aggro and wide.
List of cards I want to include and why:
Azor's Gateway - I have a lot of mana dumps and looting never hurts
Cryptolith Fragment - Not sure if it is worth running a 3 drop mana rock even with it's damage
Dire Fleet Daredevil - Most likely going to be used when I need removal in a pinch or when someone plays any card advantage
Solemn Simulacrum - Ramp and card draw
Steel Hellkite - Gets rid of enchantments and Iona
Blood Sun - Not sure on this one
Doubling Cube - Seems good
Rolling Earthquake - I need a way to kill creatures with flying. I will just take out Fault Line for it.
1x Caged Sun
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Extraplanar Lens
1x Gauntlet of Power
1x Hedron Archive
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Memory Jar
1x Mind Stone
1x Mind's Eye
1x Primal Amulet Flip
1x Pyromancer's Goggles
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Ruby Medallion
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Tower of Fortunes
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
Land (36)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Arch of Orazca
1x Command Beacon
29x Mountain
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Strip Mine
1x Terrain Generator
1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1x Acidic Soil
1x Devil's Play
1x Earthquake
1x Faithless Looting
1x Fiery Confluence
1x Flame Rift
1x Flamebreak
1x Gamble
1x Insult / Injury
1x Molten Disaster
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Ruination
1x Sizzle
1x Slagstorm
1x Vandalblast
1x Wheel of Fate
Creature (9)
1x Combustible Gearhulk
1x Fanatic of Mogis
1x Heartless Hidetsugu
1x Knollspine Dragon
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Magus of the Wheel
1x Obsidian Fireheart
1x Sandstone Oracle
1x Treasonous Ogre
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Commander
1x Neheb, the Eternal
Enchantment (10)
1x Aggravated Assault
1x Blood Moon
1x Dictate of the Twin Gods
1x Furnace of Rath
1x Outpost Siege
1x Price of Glory
1x Pyrohemia
1x Stranglehold
1x Sunbird's Invocation
1x Vance's Blasting Cannons Flip
Instant (8)
1x Chaos Warp
1x Comet Storm
1x Commune with Lava
1x Fault Line
1x Price of Progress
1x Pyroblast
1x Reverberate
1x Seething Song
Yeah I wouldn't play either. I would probably chuck my deck across the room if I ever drew dakmor salvage and a forest as my opening two lands lmao.
Has anyone been testing Tormenting Voice? I picked a playset from my bulk and I am going to -1 Neonate and -1 Darkblast to make room for 2 just to try it.
Also this has nothing to do with gameplay but I just ordered the 7 foil fetches I need (4 wooded foothills and 3 bloodstained mires) so now I am at 63/75 foil.
You made the correct choice to mull. Just because you didnt get a great 6 or 5 doesnt mean that you shouldnt have mulled, it was still the correct choice. In poker you make the choice that is most likely to happen, just because the card didnt flip right on the river doesnt mean you made the wrong choice, it just means that you werent lucky. I am going to use fake numbers here for the sake of the argument but if mulling will give you a better hand 70% of the time, there will still be 30% of the time when it gets worst but it would not be smart to do the thing that is only correct 30% of the time. I hope that makes sense.
Regarding your deck I would throw the basic swamp in the trash and put back the dakmor salvage. If you don't want to play the dakmor salvage then just take out the swamp and play only 20 lands. I would also take out the basic forest and put back the copperline gorge unless your meta is 50% path decks. Also I would cut to 20 lands (taking out a blackcleave or basic swamp) and add in a finisher like Ivg said. I prefer Driven//Despair, I actually run 2 in the 75 and love it.
I play 1 darkblast instead of the 3rd loam as well. If you have an aggro meta then it is the correct choice I believe.
1. I would go with duress.
2. Collective Brutality. These are sided in very often vs anything we want to have better value per card (midrange)
3. I love steam vents in the deck. With that you can also side 2 sultai charm too.
4. I don't play gy hate in my side. Bog is alright because you can loam it back.
5. I would just replace your abrupt decay and 1 Nature's claim with 2 sultai charm once you get a steam vents.
I have tried a Ghost Quarter in the main and I liked it. I played it in place of a second dakmor salvage but I took out the ghost quarter for it again. I can pretty confidently say that with the current cards we play right now I would never play a forest for a third basic land. I would much rather just play another mountain if a gun is to my head. I also don't see the point in 61 cards when you can very easily just take out a life from the loam or a burning inquiry.
Both Neonate and Looting is so much better than all of those because it lets us discard also. Of course the flashback on the looting is extremely relevant also. The reason legacy dredge plays the street wraith is it can dredge + be removed for ichorid.
Edit: Ross Merriam goes to 9-4 so we get to play dredge for another week.