The longer answer is that mill is generally only viable in a control shell, with reliable, repeatable sources of mill. Last year's Esper Control list used Nephalia Drownyard as a win-condition with Jace, Memory Adept as an alternate. Those decks don't need cards like Tome Scour and Mind Sculpt.
Yes. I don't seem to get very far when I try and explain this to people who are intent on milling people out, but traditionally mill is only ever competitive as a win-con in super-durdley control shells. Sure you can win a game, even a match here and there with a pile of Mind Sculpts sand Grindstones, but you will never, ever take down a tourney like that.
There are few cards I prefer to see in my opening hand with Karador. I don't think it's an "auto-include" for green decks, though. I'd think it'd be good for Jarad, it's really just good in creature based combo decks.
This is actually good, but this mean you Tezzeret first ability will always be: "Pay one mana: Draw a card". Doing that one time for each turn is pretty weak, compared to his possibility to constantly dig for answers/combo pieces.
Yeah, I agree that it's not a strong reason to run Tezzeret 2.0 in itself. It does however give you new cards to see with the Top each turn. I'm thinking I might try Tezzeret/Top in the Oloro Planeswalker Control deck I'm working on.
I feel like I just had a Stroke of Genius reading this thread. You only need ONE (plus some tutors for it): Sensei's Divining Top. Spin it, swap it then grab it with Tezzeret, leaving some new stuff on top.
I can see playing Unmake or Debtors' Knell in mono-W or mono-B. I imagine there are also cases where the Lieges would be good in decks that only have one of their colours, but I don't really play any of the Lieges to begin with, so I'm not sure.
I certainly wouldn't complain about making use of a few more of my Fracturing Gusts, that's for sure.
You're not alone. I'm in Canada, my LGS (which is in a small town, but moves a reasonable amount of product) is only getting three sets of the pre-cons with the first run. Our store manager was trying to figure out what to do as he's already had half a dozen people ask to have all five, and many more who would like one or two of the decks. I hope that i shall not have too much trouble sourcing what I want as there are two larger LGSs in a couple of larger towns in the area. It certainly has posed a delema for our local store, though.
I'll try it in Rafiq, for sure. I don't know that it's worth the trouble, but I've been one or two power off of one-shotting people just often enough to see.
Animar and Skullbriar are two of the most obvious commanders that stand to benefit from Opal Palace, but I imagine any 1-3CMC commander that swings for damage might like the bonus.
I think a lot of the "pros always win" stuff can be amended to "pros always play." I doubt PV's win rate at pro tours and gps is 70%, not taking byes into account.
Like, if I hit top 10% in 10 percent of my tournaments, nobodys going to remember. When PV shows up in top 10% in 20% of his tournaments (he gets 3 free wins), his name is all over the place, because he's entered in every single one.
65%, my bad. (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/halloffame.aspx?x=mtgevent/hofplayer/pvddarosa) Still, Paulo has T8'd nine PTs and more than a dozen GPs. I cannot believe that is simply attendance plus luck. If luck were in fact an important factor we should see far more unknown noobs luck-sacking their way into the top-eight of events, but this is simply not the case. The top players don't spend so much time preparing and practicing just to improve their "luck."
At the same time however, Legacy has the most easy mode land base, you can just play two colour lands with zero draw back.
In standard you always have to be tactical about your two mana lands. Do you play a scry land on turn 1 or save it for late game when the scry can bring more value? :nod::nod:
In Legacy if you need more colours no problem just fetch out your duels.
Any fetchland is possible of fetching any colour. The main limitation to legacy is the cost of entry as opposed to the skill gap.
Taht's why I stuck with mono blue, you get to stay cheap while being competetive.
Wasteland would like a word with you. And you're apparent ignorance of it's place as a pillar of the Legacy format indicates that you're a dedicated troll, or just in over your head.
I also suspect that you haven't actually played many matches with the ANT, Belcher, or Storm decks you claim to have such a deep understanding of. If you had, you would remember how much a turn one Thoughtseize hurts against most of your "God Hands."
At any rate, a number of experienced players have addressed the faults in your assessments of these issues, and I doubt I'll be changing your mind.
On the topic of skill in constructed Magic, I'd say that skill is very relevant. Skill and Luck are not opposites. They are not mutually exclusive. Constructed Magic is a blend. I believe the consistency of some pro players' results is a clear indication that skill is the determining factor. PVDR has something like 70% match wins at PTs. A lot of similar faces turn up at the top tables of GPs and PT events. Could be luck I guess?
I haven't played too much Modern, but I personally suspect Legacy is the most skill intensive format. It has a large, strong card-pool; diversity in top tier decks; and interactions more complex than Standard and Modern. The existence in Legacy of Brainstorm, Fetches, Duals and Wasteland alone make for an intense decision tree.
P.S. What's with people's love for the "70% Skill/30% Luck" style evaluations? I feel like this is so wrong in so many ways. Games don't simply exist on some "Skill+Luck=1" scale.
If Fallen Empires couldn't kill Magic then nothing will.
I've been playing on and off since receiving my first Starter Deck of Revised on my tenth birthday, I'm love games and have tried many, and I still haven't played a TCG that is remotely entertaining, diverse, flavourful and deep as MtG.
MTGO may leave a lot to be desired, but at the end of the day it's still a medium for the greatest CCG ever developed.
Yes. I don't seem to get very far when I try and explain this to people who are intent on milling people out, but traditionally mill is only ever competitive as a win-con in super-durdley control shells. Sure you can win a game, even a match here and there with a pile of Mind Sculpts sand Grindstones, but you will never, ever take down a tourney like that.
Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Zedruu the Greathearted
Numot, the Devastator
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper
Yeah, I agree that it's not a strong reason to run Tezzeret 2.0 in itself. It does however give you new cards to see with the Top each turn. I'm thinking I might try Tezzeret/Top in the Oloro Planeswalker Control deck I'm working on.
Kitchen Finks would be in Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Murderous Redcap would make Karador, Ghost Chieftain. I think being able to use the hybrid persist creatures in more decks would have the largest impact for me.
I can see playing Unmake or Debtors' Knell in mono-W or mono-B. I imagine there are also cases where the Lieges would be good in decks that only have one of their colours, but I don't really play any of the Lieges to begin with, so I'm not sure.
I certainly wouldn't complain about making use of a few more of my Fracturing Gusts, that's for sure.
Animar and Skullbriar are two of the most obvious commanders that stand to benefit from Opal Palace, but I imagine any 1-3CMC commander that swings for damage might like the bonus.
65%, my bad. (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/halloffame.aspx?x=mtgevent/hofplayer/pvddarosa) Still, Paulo has T8'd nine PTs and more than a dozen GPs. I cannot believe that is simply attendance plus luck. If luck were in fact an important factor we should see far more unknown noobs luck-sacking their way into the top-eight of events, but this is simply not the case. The top players don't spend so much time preparing and practicing just to improve their "luck."
Wasteland would like a word with you. And you're apparent ignorance of it's place as a pillar of the Legacy format indicates that you're a dedicated troll, or just in over your head.
I also suspect that you haven't actually played many matches with the ANT, Belcher, or Storm decks you claim to have such a deep understanding of. If you had, you would remember how much a turn one Thoughtseize hurts against most of your "God Hands."
At any rate, a number of experienced players have addressed the faults in your assessments of these issues, and I doubt I'll be changing your mind.
On the topic of skill in constructed Magic, I'd say that skill is very relevant. Skill and Luck are not opposites. They are not mutually exclusive. Constructed Magic is a blend. I believe the consistency of some pro players' results is a clear indication that skill is the determining factor. PVDR has something like 70% match wins at PTs. A lot of similar faces turn up at the top tables of GPs and PT events. Could be luck I guess?
I haven't played too much Modern, but I personally suspect Legacy is the most skill intensive format. It has a large, strong card-pool; diversity in top tier decks; and interactions more complex than Standard and Modern. The existence in Legacy of Brainstorm, Fetches, Duals and Wasteland alone make for an intense decision tree.
P.S. What's with people's love for the "70% Skill/30% Luck" style evaluations? I feel like this is so wrong in so many ways. Games don't simply exist on some "Skill+Luck=1" scale.
I've been playing on and off since receiving my first Starter Deck of Revised on my tenth birthday, I'm love games and have tried many, and I still haven't played a TCG that is remotely entertaining, diverse, flavourful and deep as MtG.
MTGO may leave a lot to be desired, but at the end of the day it's still a medium for the greatest CCG ever developed.