Hey folks, I used to play a bunch of Grixis Delver a while back and I've been thinking of buying into Grixis Death's Shadow. Would it be viable to replace Scalding Tarns for Verdant Catacombs? I have most of the deck, except Tarns. The purchase of just 4 Death's Shadow and 4 Street Wraith is significantly easier to swallow.
Is there any guideline for 18 versus 19 lands? Like, how many cantrips one should run?
On cantrips, I notice most lists are running Serum Visions over Opt, which seems silly to me. Wouldn't you rather bluff having Stubborn Denial up and play Opt on their turn?
You can play the deck just fne and the Scalding tarn is the less important fetch of all of them. However, you will suffer maybe a 5-15% of games because you coldn't search your Steam Vents when you needed it. You also want to search for your island many times, so maybe you can swich between verdant catacombs and other island search fetch.
On cantrips, you can do fine with Opt, however, here's a few things that SV does better despite being a sorcery and may be the reason behind every decklist we see winning runs them.
- It can fix bad starting hands. You're playing a low land count deck, you'll usually keep 1 landers.
- You're playing 8 threats and NEED to find at least one.
- You're playing discard the first turns. Wich means that if you don't do anything relevant later your opponent will just draw what you took earlier. Card selection is huge here.
- You can find easier your Battle Rage combo.
- You can send lands to the botton when you don't want them anyomore.
- It's better againts grindy and control matchups.
- It just goes deeper.
I'm sure there's more, but I hope theese will help you to understand a little more, good luck!
Just to add:
serum visions + street wraith (i usually do this>>>stubborn or removal on topdeck so opponent can't easily interact)
I tried the Disrupting Shoal route, and i was pretty impressed with it. Played 6 games against Eldrazi tron and only lost once with a resolved Chalice of the Void for 1 (all games it was met by Shoal:) ) Played 5 games against humans and only lost once with 2 Aether Vial in play. 4-0 against Elves. But got raped by Green Stompy Got a 1 game edge against GDS, vapor snag is mvp Chart a course is wow on this approach.
Not so familiar with the list, but Lightning Helix and Lingering Souls kept beating me together with indestructible 4/4 Gideon. Won 1 game out of 6 games with TBR.
@aiolia
I think he means, serum visions is better on setting your next draws if you keep a 1 land hand because of the scry 2. If you don't need the lands by turn 3 or you hit the 3 lands early then Opt is better cause you'll be getting more threats/answers rather than looking for a land.
Got paired with unexpected decks last sunday. I was raped by 3 dryad militants and 1 grounbreaker (lost in 3 games) Got ramped by elves with me having 2 death shadows 5/5 and 2 Gurmag Anglers in play, i just needed to topdeck a removal for his lone blocker for my turn (lost in 2 games) Just won against Tron (this the only matchup i always win even with CoTV 1 in play). How long can GDS hold on to its Tier1 spot?
Not really a fan of Temur Battle Rage. But it really gives us an "oops" win when match is already unfavored. Been testing against Abzan Midrange, Burn, Elves and Scapshifts. 2 copies in the 75 is a must now.
Went 4-2-1. Lost my last round in a 80+ attendance tournament.
Round 1 Draw vs BG Tron 1-1
Game 1: Turn 2 Angler.GG
Game 2: Long grindy game which he won.Managed to hold on via Phyrexian Revoker and Pithing needle from the side.
Game 3: No time left.
Round 2 Win vs Eldrazi 2-0
Game 1: Turn 1 Basilisk Collar Turn 2 Matter Reshaper Turn 3 Thought Knot Seer curve. But i still managed to win via Fatal Push and Terminates. Won with Gurmag and Tasigur.
Game 2: I played Revoker for his Collar. He has a turn 3 COTV but i aleady have K-Command in hand. Destroyed it EOT, and Thoughtscour myself on my turn, for Gurmag angler and played 1 DS. Got 1 Deprive and 1 Snapcaster in hand for his Thoughtknot and Reality Smasher.
1-0-1
Round 3 Loss vs Jeskai Midrange 0-2
Game 1: We both played slowly with our hands after i Thoughtseize and saw 2 PTE and 3 Bolts. Turn 5 is the turning point when he cast Geist of Saint Traft, i countered with deprive, he has Logic Knot. I lost a few turns later.
Game 2: Spell Quellers raped me. Logic Knot is a solid counter.
1-1-1
Round 4 Win vs BW Eldrazi 2-1
Game 1: We both exhausted our hands and i have better board position with 1 DS and 1 Angler. We are both down to 5. He topdecked Reality Smasher. Maindeck Relics are really hard matchups.
Game 2: He tapped out for an Eldrazi Displacer. I played thoughtseize and saw Thought Knot and PTE.I get PTE and played Thoughtscour + Gurmag Angler.He missed a land drop and can't play Thought Knot. Next turn I played Revoker for his Eldrazi Displacer. He played Thought Knot on his turn but has to choose between 1 Dismember and 1 Terminate.Gurmag took it home
Game 3: Managed to survived an Aven Mindcensor i was stucked to 2 lands. I decided to crack a fetch just to kill the Mindcensor with Push. We both exhausted our hands and we are both down to 5. I have 2 DS and 1 Tasigur. He has 3 Creatures too but is forced to block 2 DS, i don't attack my Tasigur for safety of another topdeck Reality Smasher. GG
2-1-1
Round 5 Win vs UB deck 2-0
Game 1: Turn 1 Thoughtseize Turn 2 Scour + Gurmag.GG
Game 2: Same story but this time he cast Exhaustion. I countered. He scooped.
3-1-1
Round 6 Win vs SKRED 2-0
Game 1: Turn 1 Thoughtseize i get Bloodmoon. Turn 2 Gurmag angler. GG
Game 2: Grindy matchup, managed to resolve a phyrexian revoker for his planeswalker but managed to Skred it, i brought it back via K-Command! Flashfreeze his Dragon creature. He cast another Dragon I Snapcaster>>> flashfreeze. Revoker and Snap beatdown!
4-1-1 must win.
Round 7 Loss to Jeskai 0-2
Game 1: Geist and 3 bolts and Helix.
Game 2: Stucked to 2 lands. Geist Quellers and 2 Cyrptic command.Killed me.
Jeskai is on the rise (at least here) 2 Jeskai on the Top 8. Lightning Helix, Geist and Quellers are pain in the ass. Deprive midgame is really big. UW gideon decks are plenty here and 2 made it the top 8 really a bad matchup for GDS. Revoker is really good can also be recurred via K-command. Will add 1 Dreadbore maindeck next time.
Went 3-1. Won to 2 Burn and 1 Scapeshift, lost to UB faeries. Chart a Course is OK midgame but not close enought to be the next Treasure Cruise but Opt is really good.
Finished 2-1 last night at our LGS. Round 1 Lost in 3 games against 8 rack. Round 2 Win in 3 games against Burn with Collective Brutality. Round 3 Win in 3 games against Affinity,Snapcaster MageKolaghan's Command is powerhouse with adjusted manabase. Deprive is really good against those 3 matches.
Hey Everyone. I was wondering if anyone has experience dropping Inquisition of Kozilek from their lists in favor of additional lightning bolts or Temur battle rages? I've seen a few lists drop inquisition entirely lately. How does the deck feel with less discard? In what metas would this be a good call?
I tried, but it's really nice to have a turn one discard, or discard>>>>>shadow/tasigur/angler. 6 is a decent/tested number.And please no Temur Battle Rage MD you don't want them early in your hand, you don't want them without creatures, and you don't want them unless doing fatal damage.I'd rather have additional terminate to clear the way for an attack.
Hey guys, this weekend i played 2 pptq with grixis death shadow.
First one i did 4-1-1 into top 8. The only game i lost in the swiss was against abzan midrange. Removal+liliana of the veil+ lingering is a real nightmare, i couldnt do anything that reound so i lost 0 2. I play 2 ltlh +2 temur battle rage+ kozileks return+ staticaster in the side but i didnt find any of them.
In the cuarterfinals i had to play vs another abzan midrange and same as last round, coulnt do anything, lingerings won the game and i didnt get any sideboard, i went 0-2 again.
Next day i played another pptq and this time i went 4-2 into top 16. In the swiss i lost to a doran abzan that played a cmc3 ajani which gave double strike+ flying and a 2colorless+green x/x with hexproof with x being number of forests in play , i couldnt do anything about this, he also played vines of vastwood, spellskite and so, so nothing to do, i went 0 2. Next game i had to play against another abzan midrange which finished quickly with another 0 2.
I don´t know guys but i feel abzan midrange is our worst matchup after bw tokens. I dont know what to do, half my side is prepared for abzan but still i cannot beat that deck. Any tips or sideboard guide?
Bloo 3.1 is imo way too dependent on TBR and has little options T2 to protect TiTi or KF (Shoal is an improvement, but it requires a blue card + gives card advantage to the opponent). I think Elemental shotgun addresses those pitfalls via Apostle's blessing, but the deck requires a very skilled pilot to navigate in the Modern landscape.
If you still wanna play Elemental shotgun some times, let us know, I will keep playing that deck and am happy to share ideas with motivated people.
Just to add:
serum visions + street wraith (i usually do this>>>stubborn or removal on topdeck so opponent can't easily interact)
Not so familiar with the list, but Lightning Helix and Lingering Souls kept beating me together with indestructible 4/4 Gideon. Won 1 game out of 6 games with TBR.
I think he means, serum visions is better on setting your next draws if you keep a 1 land hand because of the scry 2. If you don't need the lands by turn 3 or you hit the 3 lands early then Opt is better cause you'll be getting more threats/answers rather than looking for a land.
We are now playing opt and 1 kolaghan's command so 18 is the best number.
Round 1 Draw vs BG Tron 1-1
Game 1: Turn 2 Angler.GG
Game 2: Long grindy game which he won.Managed to hold on via Phyrexian Revoker and Pithing needle from the side.
Game 3: No time left.
Round 2 Win vs Eldrazi 2-0
Game 1: Turn 1 Basilisk Collar Turn 2 Matter Reshaper Turn 3 Thought Knot Seer curve. But i still managed to win via Fatal Push and Terminates. Won with Gurmag and Tasigur.
Game 2: I played Revoker for his Collar. He has a turn 3 COTV but i aleady have K-Command in hand. Destroyed it EOT, and Thoughtscour myself on my turn, for Gurmag angler and played 1 DS. Got 1 Deprive and 1 Snapcaster in hand for his Thoughtknot and Reality Smasher.
1-0-1
Round 3 Loss vs Jeskai Midrange 0-2
Game 1: We both played slowly with our hands after i Thoughtseize and saw 2 PTE and 3 Bolts. Turn 5 is the turning point when he cast Geist of Saint Traft, i countered with deprive, he has Logic Knot. I lost a few turns later.
Game 2: Spell Quellers raped me. Logic Knot is a solid counter.
1-1-1
Round 4 Win vs BW Eldrazi 2-1
Game 1: We both exhausted our hands and i have better board position with 1 DS and 1 Angler. We are both down to 5. He topdecked Reality Smasher. Maindeck Relics are really hard matchups.
Game 2: He tapped out for an Eldrazi Displacer. I played thoughtseize and saw Thought Knot and PTE.I get PTE and played Thoughtscour + Gurmag Angler.He missed a land drop and can't play Thought Knot. Next turn I played Revoker for his Eldrazi Displacer. He played Thought Knot on his turn but has to choose between 1 Dismember and 1 Terminate.Gurmag took it home
Game 3: Managed to survived an Aven Mindcensor i was stucked to 2 lands. I decided to crack a fetch just to kill the Mindcensor with Push. We both exhausted our hands and we are both down to 5. I have 2 DS and 1 Tasigur. He has 3 Creatures too but is forced to block 2 DS, i don't attack my Tasigur for safety of another topdeck Reality Smasher. GG
2-1-1
Round 5 Win vs UB deck 2-0
Game 1: Turn 1 Thoughtseize Turn 2 Scour + Gurmag.GG
Game 2: Same story but this time he cast Exhaustion. I countered. He scooped.
3-1-1
Round 6 Win vs SKRED 2-0
Game 1: Turn 1 Thoughtseize i get Bloodmoon. Turn 2 Gurmag angler. GG
Game 2: Grindy matchup, managed to resolve a phyrexian revoker for his planeswalker but managed to Skred it, i brought it back via K-Command! Flashfreeze his Dragon creature. He cast another Dragon I Snapcaster>>> flashfreeze. Revoker and Snap beatdown!
4-1-1 must win.
Round 7 Loss to Jeskai 0-2
Game 1: Geist and 3 bolts and Helix.
Game 2: Stucked to 2 lands. Geist Quellers and 2 Cyrptic command.Killed me.
Jeskai is on the rise (at least here) 2 Jeskai on the Top 8. Lightning Helix, Geist and Quellers are pain in the ass. Deprive midgame is really big. UW gideon decks are plenty here and 2 made it the top 8 really a bad matchup for GDS. Revoker is really good can also be recurred via K-command. Will add 1 Dreadbore maindeck next time.
Here's the list i took.
18 Lands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
1 Steam Vents
1 Island
1 Swamp
15 Creatures
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
27 Spells
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
2 Opt
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Fatal Push
1 Terminate
1 Dismember
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Deprive
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Kolaghan's Command
15 SB
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
1 Flashfreeze
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Pithing Needle
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Echoing Truth
1 Savage Alliance
Thanks for reading.
PS I'm glad 1 GDS was on the top 8.
18 Lands: No Tarns, using it at my GDS
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Steamvents
3 Spirebluff Canal
1 Shivan Reef
14 Creatures:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Enigma Drake
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 vendillion Clique
28 Spells:
4 Opt
4 Serum Visions
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
2 Spell Snare flexspot
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Vapor Snag
1 Electrolyze
1 Forked Bolt
2 Chart a Course
15 Sideboards:
3 Bloodmoon
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 By Force
1 Flashfreeze
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Ceremonius Rejection
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Echoing Truth
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ubsubtantiate
1 Act of Aggression
1 Forked Bolt
3 Bloodmoon and 2 Smash to Smithereens are the only main stay on my 15 card sideboard.
I tried, but it's really nice to have a turn one discard, or discard>>>>>shadow/tasigur/angler. 6 is a decent/tested number.And please no Temur Battle Rage MD you don't want them early in your hand, you don't want them without creatures, and you don't want them unless doing fatal damage.I'd rather have additional terminate to clear the way for an attack.
I'm tempted to play bad cards such as Sulfur Elemental and 2 Forked Bolt on the side.
Please share some ideas and decklist.