@TwinSais, regarding your points:
1) this card is slow. It will not be good until you hit 5 mana. You will need other cards to drag the game out.
2) same thing, it's slow. Compare it to 4/5 mana cards because it will take up a 4/5 mana slot in the mana curve.
3) this card is bad vs twin, even if it can hit pestermite and clique.
4) who would have A/E removal against a deck like this? There are no other targets in the deck. Even so, you get 1 activation and some goyf buffs
5) this card is a threat when combined with your other threats. It's not usually a defensive card. if you have no creatures and they have ground creatures then this card will suck. At best you can gain 3 life a turn. If you are on defense, sometimes the +1/+1 on a block might help.
In a meta full of abzan and burn would you run this? Is this card good enough when it's good to justify a sideboard slot?
Bow of Nylea has seen near zero play in modern so far. Decks that could run it have had better things to do such as using swords, birthing pod, gavony township. Since Khans block, things have changed and there are still green based midrange decks in the modern meta. This card is not overwhelmingly powerful and multiple copies are redundant so it would only be a one of if it is played at all. To figure out if this card is playable, it needs to both:
1) Synergize with an existing deck
2) Interact well with the current meta
On point 1, the existing decks for it are GW(b) creature decks, and abzan midrange. There are a few different flavours of these, ranging from taxing style, anti-discard leige style, liliana style, and others. This is a slow grindy card that is only good in drawn out games. If you only get to use it once or twice, it probably didn't do enough. Let's look at the 5 abilities:
A - deathtouch: this ability will not always matter. What it's good for is forcing damage through in long, drawn-out games. It's good with weak expendable creatures and trample. Luckily we just got a new trampler with seige rhino. This card will help rhino do more damage sometimes. More importantly, this ability works well with spirit tokens (minimally), voice of resurgance, kitchen finks, noble heirarch to push for damage and forcing them to make bad trades. This ability would be best in the mirror for breaking creature battles. This ability is free and immediate so it may often throw off your opponent's game plan.
B - +1/+1: This seems really good in the mirror for breaking creature wars, like zealous persecution. Making your rhinos and goyfs bigger is huge because they have 1 more toughness than power. This also synergizes with kitchen finks by making it near immortal. Playing Bow in a deck full of Kitchen Finks and Rhinos will be the best chance for it to shine.
C - 2 dmg flying: lately there no reason to do precisely 2 damage to a flier because 1 is enough for all the common targets (souls, manlands, clique). I owuld value this equally to 1 damage about 90% of the time or more. When this works it is repeatable creature kill which is of course a good thing. This ability is really slow and inefficient, but once turn 5 or 5 mana is reached, it can prevent fliers from going over the top. Lingering Souls already does this so this ability is mostly moot.
D - 3 life: A purely defensive ability. Useful against any deck that is willing to lighting bolt you face. The problem is those those decks are fast and this card is slow. This card can help you stablize against burn if your other cards help you get there first. Burn's answer to this is destructive revelry, which they would never bother sideboarding in (no targets). Note that this card gains life 1 turn faster than batterskull.
E - cards on bottom: This ability seems almost completely useless. However, Tasigur can help make use of this ability to get better cards back. This would only work in a really grindy game. You can also put you beef back in the deck and use a fetchland to shuffle. All this scenarios provide marginal advantage at best. This is the least useful activated ability, but at least it's better than nothing.
This card would clearly be best against the mirror or against burn. In the mirror, you have to worry about abrupt decay, but at least you can get one use out of it, which helps in rhino wars. Against burn, this may seal the deal if everything is already going well, but works poorly against more than 1 spell per turn or skullcrack. This card would be outclassed by other cards in most other matchups. This card is cool because of its flexability rather than its raw power. It does some really unique things which other cards are unable to replicate.
So is this card any good? Would you play 1 in the main or side? Would you ever play 2 (I doubt it)? Would you play it at FNM or a GPT? What other cards outclass this one nad make it obsolete (Batterskull, Lingering Souls, Gavony Township)?
I'm looking for comments, questions, and discussion on this card and how it fits in with Fates Reforged released.
If there was an instant that was 1U to return a creature to it's owner's hand and draw a card it would be very good and get played. Remand is a lot like that except it can hit more than just creatures.
If it counters a 1 or 2 mana spell it is only so-so, but it is never terrible because it draws a card. When it counters a 4+ mana spell it is absolutely backbreaking.
The decks that play 4 remand are decks that want to hit their land drops while disrupting. 1 mana cantrips (like Serum Visions) are good for drawing you into what you need early. Remand is like that except instead of losing mana to play it you typically break even on mana by making your opponent spend 2 mana on a card.
Remand also has many subtle advantages like against flashback and delve.
On the topic of protecting your creatures, giving your creature protection is poor because if the removal is red and you name pro-red, your breath of fury will not attach or stay attached. Rebuff the Wicked can counter any targeted spell for one mana without giving protection. Spellskite is good proactive protection as well. Forge-Tender also solves the red removal problem.
Here's some more ideas for you. Some of them might only be viable is a mono green version. None of these cards cost anything.
Starved Rusalka is a cheap sac outlet which would allow you to sac finks for 3 life with melira and do 2 damage if you sac finks. It isn't infinite, but it's green. Kozilek's Predator of other eldrazi spawn cards could also be neat, since they add blockers and give you zero drops to pod away. Primal Command is a more affordable tutor with many relevant modes. Recycling the graveyard might be useful sometimes. You could probably loop it with eternal witness and play it over and over. This is a slower more powerful replacement for chord. Carven Caryatid is another value 3-drop. Oran-Rief, the Vastwood combos with finks just like gavony does. Dungrove Elder would be a nice beater if you play all forests for mana.
I agree with RobM with $15000 for a practical set of all modern cards. I own 4 of almost everything in modern and it's valued at $11000 and the cost to get cards I don't own is still much less than $2000. I could finish all the T1,T2, and interesting fringe decks for less than $2000 now. When I say practical I mean enough copies of each card required to build decks. There would be no point owning 4 Elesh Norn, 4 Iona, or 4 Dryad Arbor because it would be silly to play more than 1 in a deck.
So it would cost $15000 to build an effective collection of modern cards that would allow you to play all T1, T2, and many T3 decks. To actually own 4 of every card would probably be between $25000-30000 like necro said. Remember that that cost would include cards whose price is only high from EDH play and could never fit in a viable modern deck. You would waste a lot of money on expensive EDH cards.
Hello everyone, since bitterblossom was unbanned I decided to take an existing version of R/W lockdown and splash black for blossom.
Due to February 2014 meta I decided to move leylines to sideboard and cut all mana rocks to lower the mana curve and improve deck consistency. The deck should now have a chance against zoo without giving up much in other matchups. If discard and combo become more popular then leylines should go back in.
Trading Post is now vital to prevent your life total from burn and your own bitterblossom. All abilities on the post are useful in this deck and the ability to shrink your hand (which is good) for life and secure your bridges when needed.
Crucible with Buried Ruin can also recur artifacts late game and can also keep your opponent light on lands.
Mistveil Plains ensures inevibity be preventing slow deck outs and be recycling helixes and planeswalkers late game to keep your life total high.
Honor has indeed discussed the versatility of Azorius Charm. As for the Stylus, which is in my humble opinion the most interesting card on that list. I don't think it has much value in the main, since waiting to deck out Game 1 would take a ridiculously long time and using their own wincons is likely a much safer and faster alternative.
It does, however, make for an interesting inclusion to solve the "What if they board out their win conditions?" issue, but it DOES have the opportunity to backfire spectacularly if they do NOT and you board it in - then they draw it and start denying you any wincons you may use from them. A cool trick, but be careful with it.
@DasNekros thanks for looking at it. If you draw 1 stylus it won't matter if they draw any, you still win easily. If you don't draw one yourself through, they would probably force a draw.
1) Play Shared Fate while you have a stylus in hand or play
2) Wait until you have drawn your opponent's deck and his library is empty
3) If your opponent didn't play a Shared Fate or Stylus of yours then continue
4) Use Tel-Jilad Stylus to put Shared Fate on the bottom of your deck.
5) Shared Fate is no longer in play so when your opponent has to draw for their turn, they lose
This is great when it works, but that won't be the case. You can also use it to put any permanent of yours that they draw back on the bottom of your deck. If your opponent uses it on you, he can use it on the permanents you stole from him, but he can't get rid of your Shared Fate or Stylus with it no matter what (YOU own the cards).
If your opponent puts out extra Shared Fates to counter this then the Stylus won't be able to win on its own. However, with the help of a dredge card (Nightmare Void) or Repeatable Mill Card (Nephalia Drownyard) under your control you can mill the Shared Fates away permanently.
Your opponent can also use the stylus to tuck things and mill them, but he can't tuck any Stylus, Shared Fate, or drownyard, but you can so you can tuck his stylus and mill it away until he has none.
Basically, if you have a Stylus and a Drownyard/Nightmare Void when you do Shared Fate, you are able to win the game painfully slowly regardless of what your opponent draws from your deck and without using his cards to win. Make sure he has no cards in his hand that can interact and it's over.
Here's the more realistic version:
1) Start Shared Fate with a Tel-Jilad Stylus and Nephalia Drownyard in hand or play
2) Ensure their hand has nothing important as soon as possible
2a) Use drownyard to mill your own deck out
2b) If you opponent plays any of your permanents (Especially drownyard, Stylus, Shared Fate) tuck them with Stylus
3) Once YOU have no library, tuck any stylus, drownyard, or extra shared fates your opponent played and mill them before he can redraw them
4) Wait for you OPPONENTS LIBRARY to run out (from you drawing it all)
5) Once there is only 1 Shared Fate in play, only you control a stylus, and your opponent library is empty, tuck the Shared Fate on your turn (after draw step)
6) Your opponent has to draw first and they lose
If I made any big mistakes in this post, let me know so I can edit them out.
I like really like the idea of this deck. I have a card suggestion that I haven't seen in this thread yet. I'd also like to comment on certain cards like Tel-Jilad Stylus
Red: Flash Slash - Seems pretty good Pyroclasm - Would be good or bad depending on the meta. Currently with zoo running X/3s I think that Firespout/Anger the Gods / Supreme Verdict would work better Faithless Looting - Decent before Fate and much better after fate. Flashback cards are goign to be really strong in this deck. Speaking of Flashback.... Burning Oil - Can act as double removal while you set up. Will be almost useless for your opponent when he gets it and will only get to use it once.
White Wall of Omens - A good early creature Path to Exile - Good removal for the combo decks especially
Blue Think Twice - Powerful draw in this deck Mana Leak - Powerful early for you, easy to play around late game
Gold Supreme Verdict - The best wrath now unless regen becomes popular Izzet Charm - A nice swiss army knife
Cards I haven't seen discussed yet Azorius Charm - Good stall early game, can be cycled if not needed. If your opponent uses it when you use his creatures, you can just draw the creature again next turn Hallowed Burial - Removal that dodges all recursion. You will be able to redraw the creatures to win with later in the game Lapse of Certainty - A bad version of Memory Laspe Nightmare Void - Reuseable Discard. Your opponents can use it once if they draw it, but if they do, you can use it over and over Tel-Jilad Stylus - This card is the only card in Modern that only YOU can use to remove shared fate, but not your opponent. Once the decks are all exiled, use this to remove the shared fate before your opponent draws and deck him. If your opponent draws this he can stall you. If you have more than one in your deck, if you have one before fate, you can remove HIS Stylus.
If you run Stylus, you can eliminate the problem of your opponent sideboarding out all his win conditions. If he does that you can still win with stylus.
Howerever, if you only have 1 stylus and your opponent never play a stylus, he will be able to play the same shared fate over and over.
There are ways around this however:
-Somehow exile the top card(s) or your library
-Somehow mill yourself (Dredge?, Jace? Nephalia Drownyard?)
Does anyone think Stylus could be mainboard or sideboard material?
I think it's good for casual players because all the EDH cards released now are so cheap compared to old cards. A player can build a deck with a decent power level without buying expensive older cards now.
Like Nyktos said, Cage stops pod, chord, and persist. Combine that with protection for qasali pridemage and harmonic sliver (at sorcery speed only now) and you've shut down a good chunk of their deck.
They can still board in artifact hate, most likely ancient grudge, but they definitely prefer not to since they aren't tutorable by the 6-8 tutors.
Now you need some quality removal to deal with things. 2 for one'ing them with verdict, pyroclasm, or firespout is effective especially since they can't persist now.
So cage is a very solid choice versus them as long as the rest of your deck can handle fair creature strategies. If you have counters to protect cage, even better.
I agree that blind obedience is very good too since it shuts down their combo decently as well as other decks. It might be better than stony silence as a sideboard slot now IMO.
1 or 2 hate permanents combined with good control elements should be able to take out pod. That said, they can still beat you quite often if you don't know what you're doing.
I found at the PTQ in January that when I played Naya Pod, it was so easy to get around the hate, and there wasn't much hate to begin with. Thank goodness I never had to deal with hate permanents like these. It is very easy to win without Pod or without combo especially after SB
Blind Obedience is awesome!! Playing a few in the deck means you can cut a win con or 2 and still hate hard. It stalls many cards for a whole turn which would otherwise be hard to stop. It can be combined with pithing needle to lock things down before the opponent can tap them. It serves this purpose great against twin, pod, and tron. It wouldn't be too hard to lock a tron player out of the game.
Also, Damping Matrix. too bad spellskite can't protect it. It also shuts off trading post, but I'm not sure I like that card anyway
When I saw the 4 damage on boros charm, I immediately thought of nuking planeswalkers with it. It can kill lilianna first turn if she +1s which some deck will like. Of course it just happens to be really good.
1) this card is slow. It will not be good until you hit 5 mana. You will need other cards to drag the game out.
2) same thing, it's slow. Compare it to 4/5 mana cards because it will take up a 4/5 mana slot in the mana curve.
3) this card is bad vs twin, even if it can hit pestermite and clique.
4) who would have A/E removal against a deck like this? There are no other targets in the deck. Even so, you get 1 activation and some goyf buffs
5) this card is a threat when combined with your other threats. It's not usually a defensive card. if you have no creatures and they have ground creatures then this card will suck. At best you can gain 3 life a turn. If you are on defense, sometimes the +1/+1 on a block might help.
In a meta full of abzan and burn would you run this? Is this card good enough when it's good to justify a sideboard slot?
1) Synergize with an existing deck
2) Interact well with the current meta
On point 1, the existing decks for it are GW(b) creature decks, and abzan midrange. There are a few different flavours of these, ranging from taxing style, anti-discard leige style, liliana style, and others. This is a slow grindy card that is only good in drawn out games. If you only get to use it once or twice, it probably didn't do enough. Let's look at the 5 abilities:
A - deathtouch: this ability will not always matter. What it's good for is forcing damage through in long, drawn-out games. It's good with weak expendable creatures and trample. Luckily we just got a new trampler with seige rhino. This card will help rhino do more damage sometimes. More importantly, this ability works well with spirit tokens (minimally), voice of resurgance, kitchen finks, noble heirarch to push for damage and forcing them to make bad trades. This ability would be best in the mirror for breaking creature battles. This ability is free and immediate so it may often throw off your opponent's game plan.
B - +1/+1: This seems really good in the mirror for breaking creature wars, like zealous persecution. Making your rhinos and goyfs bigger is huge because they have 1 more toughness than power. This also synergizes with kitchen finks by making it near immortal. Playing Bow in a deck full of Kitchen Finks and Rhinos will be the best chance for it to shine.
C - 2 dmg flying: lately there no reason to do precisely 2 damage to a flier because 1 is enough for all the common targets (souls, manlands, clique). I owuld value this equally to 1 damage about 90% of the time or more. When this works it is repeatable creature kill which is of course a good thing. This ability is really slow and inefficient, but once turn 5 or 5 mana is reached, it can prevent fliers from going over the top. Lingering Souls already does this so this ability is mostly moot.
D - 3 life: A purely defensive ability. Useful against any deck that is willing to lighting bolt you face. The problem is those those decks are fast and this card is slow. This card can help you stablize against burn if your other cards help you get there first. Burn's answer to this is destructive revelry, which they would never bother sideboarding in (no targets). Note that this card gains life 1 turn faster than batterskull.
E - cards on bottom: This ability seems almost completely useless. However, Tasigur can help make use of this ability to get better cards back. This would only work in a really grindy game. You can also put you beef back in the deck and use a fetchland to shuffle. All this scenarios provide marginal advantage at best. This is the least useful activated ability, but at least it's better than nothing.
This card would clearly be best against the mirror or against burn. In the mirror, you have to worry about abrupt decay, but at least you can get one use out of it, which helps in rhino wars. Against burn, this may seal the deal if everything is already going well, but works poorly against more than 1 spell per turn or skullcrack. This card would be outclassed by other cards in most other matchups. This card is cool because of its flexability rather than its raw power. It does some really unique things which other cards are unable to replicate.
So is this card any good? Would you play 1 in the main or side? Would you ever play 2 (I doubt it)? Would you play it at FNM or a GPT? What other cards outclass this one nad make it obsolete (Batterskull, Lingering Souls, Gavony Township)?
I'm looking for comments, questions, and discussion on this card and how it fits in with Fates Reforged released.
If it counters a 1 or 2 mana spell it is only so-so, but it is never terrible because it draws a card. When it counters a 4+ mana spell it is absolutely backbreaking.
The decks that play 4 remand are decks that want to hit their land drops while disrupting. 1 mana cantrips (like Serum Visions) are good for drawing you into what you need early. Remand is like that except instead of losing mana to play it you typically break even on mana by making your opponent spend 2 mana on a card.
Remand also has many subtle advantages like against flashback and delve.
Basically, protect your combo with the best cards: Rebuff the Wicked , Forge-Tender, and Spellskite
Starved Rusalka is a cheap sac outlet which would allow you to sac finks for 3 life with melira and do 2 damage if you sac finks. It isn't infinite, but it's green.
Kozilek's Predator of other eldrazi spawn cards could also be neat, since they add blockers and give you zero drops to pod away.
Primal Command is a more affordable tutor with many relevant modes. Recycling the graveyard might be useful sometimes. You could probably loop it with eternal witness and play it over and over. This is a slower more powerful replacement for chord.
Carven Caryatid is another value 3-drop.
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood combos with finks just like gavony does.
Dungrove Elder would be a nice beater if you play all forests for mana.
So it would cost $15000 to build an effective collection of modern cards that would allow you to play all T1, T2, and many T3 decks. To actually own 4 of every card would probably be between $25000-30000 like necro said. Remember that that cost would include cards whose price is only high from EDH play and could never fit in a viable modern deck. You would waste a lot of money on expensive EDH cards.
Due to February 2014 meta I decided to move leylines to sideboard and cut all mana rocks to lower the mana curve and improve deck consistency. The deck should now have a chance against zoo without giving up much in other matchups. If discard and combo become more popular then leylines should go back in.
Trading Post is now vital to prevent your life total from burn and your own bitterblossom. All abilities on the post are useful in this deck and the ability to shrink your hand (which is good) for life and secure your bridges when needed.
Crucible with Buried Ruin can also recur artifacts late game and can also keep your opponent light on lands.
Mistveil Plains ensures inevibity be preventing slow deck outs and be recycling helixes and planeswalkers late game to keep your life total high.
4 Marsh Flats
4 Tectonic Edge
2 Plains
2 Mountain
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Buried Ruin
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Swamp
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Bitterblossom
3 Trading Post
3 Ajani Vengeant
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Lingering Souls
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Wrath of God
2 Stony Silence
2 Sowing Salt
1 Runed Halo
@DasNekros thanks for looking at it. If you draw 1 stylus it won't matter if they draw any, you still win easily. If you don't draw one yourself through, they would probably force a draw.
1) Play Shared Fate while you have a stylus in hand or play
2) Wait until you have drawn your opponent's deck and his library is empty
3) If your opponent didn't play a Shared Fate or Stylus of yours then continue
4) Use Tel-Jilad Stylus to put Shared Fate on the bottom of your deck.
5) Shared Fate is no longer in play so when your opponent has to draw for their turn, they lose
This is great when it works, but that won't be the case. You can also use it to put any permanent of yours that they draw back on the bottom of your deck. If your opponent uses it on you, he can use it on the permanents you stole from him, but he can't get rid of your Shared Fate or Stylus with it no matter what (YOU own the cards).
If your opponent puts out extra Shared Fates to counter this then the Stylus won't be able to win on its own. However, with the help of a dredge card (Nightmare Void) or Repeatable Mill Card (Nephalia Drownyard) under your control you can mill the Shared Fates away permanently.
Your opponent can also use the stylus to tuck things and mill them, but he can't tuck any Stylus, Shared Fate, or drownyard, but you can so you can tuck his stylus and mill it away until he has none.
Basically, if you have a Stylus and a Drownyard/Nightmare Void when you do Shared Fate, you are able to win the game painfully slowly regardless of what your opponent draws from your deck and without using his cards to win. Make sure he has no cards in his hand that can interact and it's over.
Here's the more realistic version:
1) Start Shared Fate with a Tel-Jilad Stylus and Nephalia Drownyard in hand or play
2) Ensure their hand has nothing important as soon as possible
2a) Use drownyard to mill your own deck out
2b) If you opponent plays any of your permanents (Especially drownyard, Stylus, Shared Fate) tuck them with Stylus
3) Once YOU have no library, tuck any stylus, drownyard, or extra shared fates your opponent played and mill them before he can redraw them
4) Wait for you OPPONENTS LIBRARY to run out (from you drawing it all)
5) Once there is only 1 Shared Fate in play, only you control a stylus, and your opponent library is empty, tuck the Shared Fate on your turn (after draw step)
6) Your opponent has to draw first and they lose
If I made any big mistakes in this post, let me know so I can edit them out.
Red:
Flash Slash - Seems pretty good
Pyroclasm - Would be good or bad depending on the meta. Currently with zoo running X/3s I think that Firespout/Anger the Gods / Supreme Verdict would work better
Faithless Looting - Decent before Fate and much better after fate. Flashback cards are goign to be really strong in this deck. Speaking of Flashback....
Burning Oil - Can act as double removal while you set up. Will be almost useless for your opponent when he gets it and will only get to use it once.
White
Wall of Omens - A good early creature
Path to Exile - Good removal for the combo decks especially
Blue
Think Twice - Powerful draw in this deck
Mana Leak - Powerful early for you, easy to play around late game
Gold
Supreme Verdict - The best wrath now unless regen becomes popular
Izzet Charm - A nice swiss army knife
Cards I haven't seen discussed yet
Azorius Charm - Good stall early game, can be cycled if not needed. If your opponent uses it when you use his creatures, you can just draw the creature again next turn
Hallowed Burial - Removal that dodges all recursion. You will be able to redraw the creatures to win with later in the game
Lapse of Certainty - A bad version of Memory Laspe
Nightmare Void - Reuseable Discard. Your opponents can use it once if they draw it, but if they do, you can use it over and over
Tel-Jilad Stylus - This card is the only card in Modern that only YOU can use to remove shared fate, but not your opponent. Once the decks are all exiled, use this to remove the shared fate before your opponent draws and deck him. If your opponent draws this he can stall you. If you have more than one in your deck, if you have one before fate, you can remove HIS Stylus.
If you run Stylus, you can eliminate the problem of your opponent sideboarding out all his win conditions. If he does that you can still win with stylus.
Howerever, if you only have 1 stylus and your opponent never play a stylus, he will be able to play the same shared fate over and over.
There are ways around this however:
-Somehow exile the top card(s) or your library
-Somehow mill yourself (Dredge?, Jace? Nephalia Drownyard?)
Does anyone think Stylus could be mainboard or sideboard material?
They can still board in artifact hate, most likely ancient grudge, but they definitely prefer not to since they aren't tutorable by the 6-8 tutors.
Now you need some quality removal to deal with things. 2 for one'ing them with verdict, pyroclasm, or firespout is effective especially since they can't persist now.
So cage is a very solid choice versus them as long as the rest of your deck can handle fair creature strategies. If you have counters to protect cage, even better.
I agree that blind obedience is very good too since it shuts down their combo decently as well as other decks. It might be better than stony silence as a sideboard slot now IMO.
1 or 2 hate permanents combined with good control elements should be able to take out pod. That said, they can still beat you quite often if you don't know what you're doing.
I found at the PTQ in January that when I played Naya Pod, it was so easy to get around the hate, and there wasn't much hate to begin with. Thank goodness I never had to deal with hate permanents like these. It is very easy to win without Pod or without combo especially after SB
Also, Damping Matrix. too bad spellskite can't protect it. It also shuts off trading post, but I'm not sure I like that card anyway