It's not a matter of impatience and "need it now", this was basically 14 pages of speculation with no hints or confirmations, which honestly is speculation. There's no need for an apology as he's the one who created this thread and all the worthless drivel in it.
Glad he decided to pop back into the thread though.
The Captain created the thread, absolutely. But the worthless drivel? He has only posted twice in the entire 14 pages. WE created the worthless drivel by arguing about the abilities and by not adhering as closely as possible to Captain's initial riddle. It is pitiful that people actually blame him for this (the Captain might be a her, but demographically speaking, Magic players tend to be male, so I am going to stick with that pronoun for now).
The only people that need to apologize in this thread are not the people who made stupid and uninformed statements, bickering back and forth. That always happens on this forum. The people who need to apologize are those who are actually blaming the Captain despite his generosity in providing us hints, clues, and cards for many sets. No one forces you to speculate. No one forces you to read this site. If you do not like the nature of his riddles, then do not read them and do not get involved. Everyone who insulted the captain should be ashamed of themselves, their self-entitlement, their impatience, and their general disrespect. I do not wish to be construed as admonishing. I merely wish the Captain to know that there are people who are both grateful for his contributions, and disappointed that some find it in their right to insult him.
Now let us get back to the matter at hand. We have only 2 posts that are even worth considering in this whole darn thread. All others posts can reasonably be construed as drivel, because none of them were informed by BOTH of Captain's quotes. We should start fresh and adhere strictly and solely to the facts. Or at least, what we have heard from Captain's mouth (read from Captain's fingers) alone.
Yeah, untapped.
I mean, who doesn't like their permanents to come into play untapped?
I'm fairly sure that, if you asked, all colours would prefer that their permanents came into play untapped rather than tapped, don't you think?
It'd be a pretty cheap shot if not everyone was invited!
>Sheesh!< In my day people waited for spoilers and were happy for what they got, when they got it!
For those doubting the accuracy of my information, I would not post a spoiler that I was not 100% sure of. This is why I'm not going to throw out some random sweeping statement that I can't (or won't) back up like "YOMG! You think this is frustrating, just wait until you see Goblin, it's Goblin!"
The riddle provided a clue as to the amount you would need to pay to cast this "untapped thingy" and a lot of people have remarked how available it is to every colour and assigned the correct permanent type.
All you're missing is a name, a cost, a confirmed permanent type and/or colour, art, rarity, exact text, flavour text, artict name and card number. That's not much! Be patient guys, Rome wasn't built in a day.
Now have a Happy Holiday, play some excellent Magic and we'll get back to spoiling in the new year, m'kay?
From this, here are the quotes that pertain solely to the card:
1. I mean, who doesn't like their permanents to come into play untapped?
2. All colours would prefer that their permanents came into play untapped rather than tapped.
3. It'd be a pretty cheap shot if not everyone was invited
4. The riddle provided a clue as to the amount you would need to pay to cast this "untapped thingy".
5. A lot of people have...assigned the correct permanent type.
What information can we gain SPECIFICALLY from this.
1. The activated ability is available to all players and/or is a triggered ability that effects permanents of all players. Possibly generating a replacement effect. OR The card can be used in all decks.
2. There is a correlation between the color of mana paid and the color of the permanent that comes into play untapped.
3. The permanent type is probably NOT a Land: "amount you would need to pay to cast this "untapped thingy". You cannot cast Lands.
4. The permanent types is probably an Artifact or Enchantment, as these are the second and third most suggested types in this thread.
I think those are the safe assumptions we can make. Feel free to disagree or correct as needed.
Based off of this, here are two ways the card could work. Card 1 is based off of the assumption that the effect is available to all players. Card 2 is based off of the assumption that the card is an artifact that can be used in all decks.
First Untap World (5)
Artifact
{1}: Note the color of mana used to pay for {1}. The next time a permanent of this color would enter the battlefield tapped under your control, it enters the battlefield untapped instead. Any player may play this ability
Second Untap World (5)
Artifact
Spend only mana of one color to cast Second Untap World. Note the color of mana used to cast Second Untap World.
Whenever a permanent of this color would enter the battlefield tapped under your control, it enters the battlefield untapped instead.
One thing I do not get: how do we know the "AMOUNT you would need to pay to CAST" this card? Is there some clue as to the card's CMC that I missed? Or is Captain just suggesting that the cost somehow cares about what color of mana is used? Or maybe that it costs RGUBW? Thoughts?
Probably a replacement effect, but one that would not lead to endless shenanigans:
Untap World
Enchantment
Whenever the first permanent of the turn would enter the battlefield tapped, it enters the battlefield untapped instead.
Reciprocal effect, only works once per turn, and only applies to lands (which as Gatherer reveals, the vast majority of the "enters the battlefield tapped" permanents are lands). It also refers back to the OP:
1) "Who doesn't like their permanents to come into play untapped?"
The card has a replacement effect that obliges permanents to enter the battlefield untapped. As the OP says though, this is not a problem, because everyone wants this anyway.
2) "All colours would prefer..."
Two implications of this. One is it effects all permanents with a color. Two is it does NOT effect permanents WITHOUT a color. That means all of the ridiculous land and artifact mana generators that enter the battlefield tapped are exempt from the effect.
3) "Not everyone was invited..."
The card probably refers to all players.
Back to the card that was speculated above...it's strictly better than Deserted Temple, and two of them in play would make an infinite combo...I don't see it seeing print in that form.
One Seeker of Skybreak makes an "infinite" combo. 2 of these lands, at least in your own proposed form, leads to infinite untappings of each other. Now you need a way to produce some sort of effect from that. Then you need a kill condition. That's a 4 card combo, 2 of which have to be the same card. Terrible.
The third one is almost certainly Volraths Shapeshifter, especially if you compare it to the previous artwork from stronghold. This would be a welcome addition to the Extended card pool, and maybe even Standard.
-DL
EDIT: Hm well, the Gaeas Herald theory could work, but I don't see them changing the artwork for that card. It's current artwork is so prolific, being used with tremendous frequency on Wizards.
yeah 5 card combos are really broken... if you can't tell, im being sarcastic
Boy are you a genius.
Turn 1: Land, Mox/Petal, play Flash --> Protean Hulk
Hulk dies, fetch 4 Disciple and lots of Shield Spheres and other 0 cost, 0 toughness artifacts. Spheres and DotV comes into play, opponent dies when the spheres die from state based effects.
And that was on turn 1?
And that was with only 2 cards in hand?
And that was when you could still have a FoW or Pact of Negation to defend the combo?
Any of the Grandeur legends and Genesis are pretty busted. Post Rotation Extended I anticipate will definitely have a deck with Oriss and Genesis for recurring scepter lock.
Nutty beyond reason in various vintage decks. Better than FoW? Maybe in a few situations (storm combo: doesn't force you to pitch a blue card), but otherwise just plain good.
I absolutely love the novelty with the Aura. Excellent choice. I can't help but see this as a game over card with the proper hand and proper graveyard. Maybe another component is needed, but it seems like this will have the Johnnys of the world going nuts.
And the art on that jailer is awesome, as much as I hate the card itself. Graveyards don't need to be stopped anymore than they already have. Let the yards be!
Fascinating mechanic. This is an awesome card to use against Tendrils of Agony, Brain Freeze, Empty the Warrens, and any other storm based win deck. It saves you while simultaneously providing a considerable beater to smash face next turn.
It has a fair amount of applications in virtually every format. I like where this set is going so far, that I do.
Venser is so neat. Here are my favorite uses for this dude:
Spell countered? Venser it back to your hand.
Spell resolved? Play Venser and get the spell back for another use.
At least, I think the last one works. I could be mistaken.
Transfigure is going to be CRAZILY good if they print it on creatures with lower mana costs (CMC 1 or 2 will be literally broken). However, as it is futureshifted, I doubt we will see that for a long time.
In Vintage, this has a small place, but that honestly depends on what kind of deck you're piloting or facing. I don't know Vintage well enough to pass judgement, but I suspect that if it is real, several players (or even pros, who knows?) will try to break it. (or at least use it as a FoW proxy, if they're financially incapable of finding FoWs).
Speaking in terms of Vintage, it is better in combo decks than FoW is. No card disadvantage whatsoever, increases storm count, stops opposing FoW's cold in their tracks, etc. etc. This card is nuts in Vintage combo. It isn't as good as FoW in other decks, but it is damn near close.
IF this is true, it will definitely find a huge place in every format:
Standard: Mystic Teachings anyone?
And it's just a degenerate card
Extended: Stops some combos cold, powers Aggro/Control and its tempo cards, etc.
I really hope they don't keyword every ability in Magic. This will devolve the game into a Yu-Gi-Oh state of awfulness. If they keep doing it...well, we should let them know our displeasure.
Two new types? What do you think those are hydro? Enchanted World? Mono Artifact? Poly Artifact? Mana Source? Maybe something really wacky...
As usual, Wizards has decided the best way to fix a format is to print a card as opposed to ban. This zombie has Life From The Loam written all over it, with a lesser script of Ichorid in the corner. Dredge is Wizards big mechanic of concern, and what with Tombstalker and Delve...they really need to make sure players have answers that fit into their mana curve.
I personally hope it is untrue.
The Captain created the thread, absolutely. But the worthless drivel? He has only posted twice in the entire 14 pages. WE created the worthless drivel by arguing about the abilities and by not adhering as closely as possible to Captain's initial riddle. It is pitiful that people actually blame him for this (the Captain might be a her, but demographically speaking, Magic players tend to be male, so I am going to stick with that pronoun for now).
The only people that need to apologize in this thread are not the people who made stupid and uninformed statements, bickering back and forth. That always happens on this forum. The people who need to apologize are those who are actually blaming the Captain despite his generosity in providing us hints, clues, and cards for many sets. No one forces you to speculate. No one forces you to read this site. If you do not like the nature of his riddles, then do not read them and do not get involved. Everyone who insulted the captain should be ashamed of themselves, their self-entitlement, their impatience, and their general disrespect. I do not wish to be construed as admonishing. I merely wish the Captain to know that there are people who are both grateful for his contributions, and disappointed that some find it in their right to insult him.
Now let us get back to the matter at hand. We have only 2 posts that are even worth considering in this whole darn thread. All others posts can reasonably be construed as drivel, because none of them were informed by BOTH of Captain's quotes. We should start fresh and adhere strictly and solely to the facts. Or at least, what we have heard from Captain's mouth (read from Captain's fingers) alone.
From this, here are the quotes that pertain solely to the card:
1. I mean, who doesn't like their permanents to come into play untapped?
2. All colours would prefer that their permanents came into play untapped rather than tapped.
3. It'd be a pretty cheap shot if not everyone was invited
4. The riddle provided a clue as to the amount you would need to pay to cast this "untapped thingy".
5. A lot of people have...assigned the correct permanent type.
What information can we gain SPECIFICALLY from this.
1. The activated ability is available to all players and/or is a triggered ability that effects permanents of all players. Possibly generating a replacement effect. OR The card can be used in all decks.
2. There is a correlation between the color of mana paid and the color of the permanent that comes into play untapped.
3. The permanent type is probably NOT a Land: "amount you would need to pay to cast this "untapped thingy". You cannot cast Lands.
4. The permanent types is probably an Artifact or Enchantment, as these are the second and third most suggested types in this thread.
I think those are the safe assumptions we can make. Feel free to disagree or correct as needed.
Based off of this, here are two ways the card could work. Card 1 is based off of the assumption that the effect is available to all players. Card 2 is based off of the assumption that the card is an artifact that can be used in all decks.
First Untap World (5)
Artifact
{1}: Note the color of mana used to pay for {1}. The next time a permanent of this color would enter the battlefield tapped under your control, it enters the battlefield untapped instead. Any player may play this ability
Second Untap World (5)
Artifact
Spend only mana of one color to cast Second Untap World. Note the color of mana used to cast Second Untap World.
Whenever a permanent of this color would enter the battlefield tapped under your control, it enters the battlefield untapped instead.
One thing I do not get: how do we know the "AMOUNT you would need to pay to CAST" this card? Is there some clue as to the card's CMC that I missed? Or is Captain just suggesting that the cost somehow cares about what color of mana is used? Or maybe that it costs RGUBW? Thoughts?
-ktkenshinx-
Untap World
Enchantment
Whenever the first permanent of the turn would enter the battlefield tapped, it enters the battlefield untapped instead.
Reciprocal effect, only works once per turn, and only applies to lands (which as Gatherer reveals, the vast majority of the "enters the battlefield tapped" permanents are lands). It also refers back to the OP:
1) "Who doesn't like their permanents to come into play untapped?"
The card has a replacement effect that obliges permanents to enter the battlefield untapped. As the OP says though, this is not a problem, because everyone wants this anyway.
2) "All colours would prefer..."
Two implications of this. One is it effects all permanents with a color. Two is it does NOT effect permanents WITHOUT a color. That means all of the ridiculous land and artifact mana generators that enter the battlefield tapped are exempt from the effect.
3) "Not everyone was invited..."
The card probably refers to all players.
One Seeker of Skybreak makes an "infinite" combo. 2 of these lands, at least in your own proposed form, leads to infinite untappings of each other. Now you need a way to produce some sort of effect from that. Then you need a kill condition. That's a 4 card combo, 2 of which have to be the same card. Terrible.
-DL
EDIT: Hm well, the Gaeas Herald theory could work, but I don't see them changing the artwork for that card. It's current artwork is so prolific, being used with tremendous frequency on Wizards.
Boy are you a genius.
Turn 1: Land, Mox/Petal, play Flash --> Protean Hulk
Hulk dies, fetch 4 Disciple and lots of Shield Spheres and other 0 cost, 0 toughness artifacts. Spheres and DotV comes into play, opponent dies when the spheres die from state based effects.
And that was on turn 1?
And that was with only 2 cards in hand?
And that was when you could still have a FoW or Pact of Negation to defend the combo?
Yep.
-DL
New wording of the first card in the wake of FS has made this combo broken in Legacy. Bannings and/or power-errata will ensue.
-DL
-DL
Very happy this saw print.
-DL
In general the artwork of FS is a vast improvement from times past.
-DL
And the art on that jailer is awesome, as much as I hate the card itself. Graveyards don't need to be stopped anymore than they already have. Let the yards be!
-DL
It has a fair amount of applications in virtually every format. I like where this set is going so far, that I do.
-DL
Spell countered? Venser it back to your hand.
Spell resolved? Play Venser and get the spell back for another use.
At least, I think the last one works. I could be mistaken.
Transfigure is going to be CRAZILY good if they print it on creatures with lower mana costs (CMC 1 or 2 will be literally broken). However, as it is futureshifted, I doubt we will see that for a long time.
I'm looking forward to the future!
-DL
Speaking in terms of Vintage, it is better in combo decks than FoW is. No card disadvantage whatsoever, increases storm count, stops opposing FoW's cold in their tracks, etc. etc. This card is nuts in Vintage combo. It isn't as good as FoW in other decks, but it is damn near close.
IF this is true, it will definitely find a huge place in every format:
Standard: Mystic Teachings anyone?
And it's just a degenerate card
Extended: Stops some combos cold, powers Aggro/Control and its tempo cards, etc.
Legacy: Amazing. Pure and Simple
Vintage: See above
-DL
Two new types? What do you think those are hydro? Enchanted World? Mono Artifact? Poly Artifact? Mana Source? Maybe something really wacky...
-DL
I personally hope it is untrue.
-DL