I've been trying Kambal maindeck with my version of Mardu Nahiri, and I'm super impressed how relevant he is. Makes the G1 match-up against burn/storm much better, punishes midrange and control decks, and blocks well against aggro. Decks without removal for him will often lose 6-8 health, not including when he attacks.
I seriously recommend trying him out as a two of at least.
I've been wanting to play Dredgevine forever and this new version of the deck is amazing. Goblin Lore is fantastic. I've got a few questions for those involved.
1. The list I've been testing is B/R for Bloodghast and maybe Collected Brutality. Is there a reason I don't see Bloodghast around anymore? I understand the Pheonix works in a similar way, but why not run both?
2. B/R also allows for Shambling Remains that can be unearthed for a final attack and triggers the phoenixes as well. Is it good enough?
3. Have you tried Flamekin Harbinger as a 1-2 of? Helps set up quick reanimations and is another one drop to trigger Vv.
4. Does this new version of the deck have a name? Now that there is no dredge - it doesn't work anymore.
My decklist is completely combo based right now, though I'll post it once I get all the cards together to test in paper.
How does everyone feel about Dark Confidant in Nahiri builds? I see some people using Asylum Visitor, but Bob seems a bit better? Looks like it fits in the curve nicely as there aren't a lot of 2cc.
Talking about curve, what about flipping an Emrakul with Bob? I don't want to lose games like that.
It happens less often then you should fear it, the cards you draw from Dark Confidant are well worth the life you might lose in the meantime. You will win more games then you will lose with bob.
Dread Wanderer
B
Creature - Zombie Jackal, Rare
Dread Wanderer enters the battlefield tapped.
2B: Return Dread Wanderer from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery and only if you have one or fewer cards in hand.
2/1
A difference is that Lili worKS better with an empty hand and pack rat wants you to hold cards, especially if you want to bluff removal. The two can work together well but I wouldn't recommend adding rats to nahiri decks. I've tested it and often I found that I was being stretched too thin in my decisions.
Perhaps two in the side to bring in against matchups where we need a fast clock
Do you think heart of kiran (due to the presence of many PW) could be a nice choice? turn 2: Heart of Kiran Turn 3: Liliana of the veil discard then fight removing the counter, seems nice.
The only problem about that is in those match-ups Liliana of the Veil needs to hit her ultimate as fast as possible, also any control deck with red is going to bolt her hard after you activate the Heart of Kiran. If you want a proactive vehicle I'd start by testing smugglers copter for early game damage and loot.
The nice thing about Nahiri is that she is versatile and can serve as both removals or as a form of win-conditions. But personally, I find you can get enough control elements with just removals/ disruption / Liliana and focus the rest on a proactive strategy.
I don't understand this, Nahiri is queen of a proactive/disruptive strategy, why would you not include her? Most likely you are just going to be replacing her with a different kind of threat - but Nahiri already fits so well. I agree she doesn't belong in token version of Mardu but if your key idea is disrupting while putting yourself into a better position Nahiri is fantastic.
Beyond that curving into Liliana of the Veil on turn three and then Nahiri on turn four is back breaking.
With the metagame atm (Midrange decks dominating), What do you think will the better build in Mardu? Nahiri or Token (Bitter,Butcher) build? Can you explain why? I'm playing Nahiri Mardu atm. Thanks!
Both are powerful against midrange but I will speak for the one I know Nahiri:
Midrange decks have a terrible time against me because we are both going 1 for 1, while I can go aggressive and swing with tokens or stop and be defensive and protect my planeswalkers until victory. Nahiri herself is fantastic against midrange, offering a three turn clock while cycling your hand to find the right disruption.
After that it depends on what you pull out of the sideboard, something like Elspeth, Sun's Champion will usually beat any midrange deck.
I'm definitely going to run 2x Fatal Push in my Nahiri version, cutting one path an something else. As the meta corrects itself I feel like more than that will be too much, and there is no reason not to run at least one copy.
I might also consider running 2x Smugglers copters when I can get my hands on them. Still waiting for the price to drop completely though.
I speak as a Jund and Abzan player who wants to try also mardu nahiri.
Imho the problems are:
-the deck only wins with nahiri.
-the deck has got cheap removal but they aren't "kill all the stuff". Decay kills ascension and cranial, pulse also leyline of sanctity and other pw (sun and moon will be a thing). Vindicate unfortunately hasn't been reprinted.
-the deck only makes 1-1 this is a good strategy if you play abzan and jund because you have got dark confidant (abzan will play confidant too after aether revolt) and other bombs but here not so much against swarm decks so... anger of the gods could be needed. I've played both skred and an homebrew rakdos control and I know how much I needed those cards.
-Do you really want to play asylum visitor + heart of kiran when a lot of jund players are planning to play 2x kholaghan's command md and everyone fears grixis control which is strong due to the combo snapcaster+kholagan?
1. I've won with Nahiri, ultimating Lilliana, lingering souls, shambling vents, bolts etc.
2. Pretty sure path nails everything. Beyond that we have so many different methods of removal it's hard to believe they will all whiff.
3.Our 1 for 1 game is supplemented but planeswalkers and lingering souls. The latter is what allows us to usually beat jund. I also play confidant in my deck and would 100% recommend him to other mardu nahiri players.
4. I don't think heart or visitor belongs in this deck at all. But that's me.
8Rack is a tough match up due to having so many dead cards game one, and having ensnaring bridge main. However, if we can force the game into a stall our Planeswalkers or Shambling Vents can get us to victory.
Game 1: After a lucky Inquisition picked off my opponent's only Rack in hand, we emptied our hands. She played Ensnaring Bridge and Necrogen Mists, and I dropped Liliana of the Veil. Nothing much happened until I ticked her up to seven and ultimated, making my opponent choose between her lands or her artifacts/enchantments. After missing her second land drop her hand filled up allowing me to attack with Shambling Vent and Spirits tokens.
SIDEBOARD: -2 anger of the gods, -4 path to exile, +2 Wall of Omens, +2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation, +2 Timely Reinforcements
Game 2: I keep a one land hand knowing I wouldn't be able to cast most of it anyway, and keep the thoughtseize to hopefully snipe a rack. She lets me go first and it turns out she didn't have a rack effect in hand, so I grab the Smallpox to keep me from getting mana screwed. Luckily I hit all my land drops and manage a Nahiri right when she is able to drop two Racks. She redirects 8 damage from those racks over two turns, and I find my Engineered explosives to clear the racks. She drops a bridge, I play liliana, and the game takes the same turn as the first game. I eventually ultimate liliana, she sacrifices her lands and I use spirit tokens to win.
Match 2: Jeskai Control
I'm generally confident in this match-up, and it seemed my opponent was still new with the deck, and had made some budget choices.
Game 1: I fetch, shock, thoughtseize and follow it up with a Dark Confidant the next turn. Clearly not looking to keep too much life this round. He bolts it, and we both play passively for awhile. I have both lightning helix in my hand so I'm not too worried about being burned out. He starts sending his bolts at me, and I begin to attack with a shambling vent. Game comes to a close when I drop Nahiri and he drops Gideon Jura. By +2ing he's effectively nullifying Nahiri's ultimate by directing it at Gideon. I drop confidant and pass, he +2s again. I draw Liliana with bob and attack gideon. I think seeing liliana scared him so he mistakenly -2'd to kill bob. This let me ultimate Nahiri for the win.
SIDEBOARD: -2 anger of the gods, -1 engineered explosives, -2 path to exile, +2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation, +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Game 2: So sadly my sideboard choices were not the most relevant due my opponents deck choices, but I still think most of the time this would be my go-to sideboard. I keep a hand with Inquisition and six lands, two of which are vents. I see his hand is mainly countermagic so I just attack with vents repeatedly until we are both at eight mana. He drops his own Sun's champion and I realise I have no out to it, but decide to stay in the game. I play some lingering souls, and try to trade profitably with a Wall of Omens and my two vents. I drop two dark confidants and thoughtseize, seeing he has two Timely Reinforcements in hand and another Sun's Champion. Jeez. Luckily I'm at 25 health, so I'm not afraid of my confidants, which allow me to grab a lili. I start aggressively targeting his elspeth, chumping my confidants when I fall to 10 life. I force him to discard his timely reinforcements and he plays his second Elspeth. I play Nahiri and pick away at the new Elspeth. He keeps dividing his attacks between me and my planeswalkers and so I'm able block profitably while gaining life and keeping Liliana at one loyalty, forcing him to attack again. Finally after the second Elspeth goes down he draws into lands I ultimate Nahiri for the win.
Match 3: Bant Spirits
Game 1: I get an early Lili on the board to -2 away a Mausoleum Wanderer, and next turn he discards his Geist of St. Traft. My hand is all removal so I keep going 1 for 1 with his creatures, leaving us both hellbent after a Collected Company. Lili on the field I do my best to keep things unfair, but his second CoCo hits Spell Queller and Drogskol Captain. He backs them up with Gavony Township as I cast lingering souls. I follow up with Nahiri and use the Spirits defensively. Once I get close to ultimate he keeps Spell Queller untapped to defend against emrakul, and I -2 away the captain. He plays Nobel Hierarch and I path his queller, leaving a wall of omens up for defence. He doesn't draw into anything and I win with Nahiri.
SIDEBOARD: -1 Nahiri, the Harbinger, -2 Wall of Omens, +1 Wrath of God, +2 Crackling Doom
Game 2: He starts with a Heirarch which I bolt and passes turn two and three. I recognise that he probably has Spell Queller but drop a liliana into it anyway. He does have the queller and takes my lili, next turn playing a mausoleum wanderer and attacking with the queller. Sadly that is exactly what I want, as I play Nahiri the next turn, -2 to get my lili back, and -2 with lili to clear the board. After this he doesn't draw into anything more than a ratchet bomb which he uses on liliana, and finally flashes a rattlechains into play. I bolt it, which he spellquellers, which I then helix, and he concedes.
Conclusion:
As always Nahiri does solid work, but Liliana of the Veil ends up being the MVP of the night. Special mentions to Shambling Vents for gaining me easily more than 40 life total through all the games. My only changes to my deck list that I'm considering is replacing the third rest in peace for either Painful Truths or Phyrexian Arena.
That's it for now! Let me know if you have any questions or comments!
So, as someone new to the deck (running it proxied until I can finish it out), why don't people run Terminate? I can understand that Path hits more despite its downside and Helix gains life despite not always killing, but are these the only reasons I don't see Terminate in any lists? Or Dreadbore or a split of them? I'm not familiar enough with our MUs to know if it has something to do with that, but I am rather curious.
I find Terminate competes for space with Lightning Helix, and right now I think the Helixs are much more valuable. Path, Lili and Nahiri can all deal with the big creatures. Bolt and Helix are there for the little ones. I also never really feel the urge to run Dreadbore, Lingering souls and bolts usually clean up other planeswalkers.
For those running Nahiri and bob, do you side out bob against jeskai? He rarely stays alive and there is not much to side out other than him.
I think it matters more what you are bringing into the match up as well. Kambal and Rest in Peace are often what I aim to grab unless it is Jeskai Nahiri, then I also have Crackling Doom for emrakul.
Haven't had a chance to play the deck often, been busy with school these days
I decided to start keeping track of games I play now, to try to figure out my win percentage with this deck. Once I start it up I'll post my results along with my decklist.
It was a great games, though the eldrazi player flooded out at the end. The Mardu player also often played Lingering Souls from his hand before flashing back - is that the right call? I prefer to keep LS in my hand using the graveyard ones first, so that I have more cards in hand and to avoid a 2 for 1 if they exile my graveyard. Am I wrong here?
I seriously recommend trying him out as a two of at least.
1. The list I've been testing is B/R for Bloodghast and maybe Collected Brutality. Is there a reason I don't see Bloodghast around anymore? I understand the Pheonix works in a similar way, but why not run both?
2. B/R also allows for Shambling Remains that can be unearthed for a final attack and triggers the phoenixes as well. Is it good enough?
3. Have you tried Flamekin Harbinger as a 1-2 of? Helps set up quick reanimations and is another one drop to trigger Vv.
4. Does this new version of the deck have a name? Now that there is no dredge - it doesn't work anymore.
My decklist is completely combo based right now, though I'll post it once I get all the cards together to test in paper.
It happens less often then you should fear it, the cards you draw from Dark Confidant are well worth the life you might lose in the meantime. You will win more games then you will lose with bob.
Dread Wanderer
B
Creature - Zombie Jackal, Rare
Dread Wanderer enters the battlefield tapped.
2B: Return Dread Wanderer from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery and only if you have one or fewer cards in hand.
2/1
Highlight of the night was using it to scry emrakul to the bottom... with dark confidant in play and 14 health!
Perhaps two in the side to bring in against matchups where we need a fast clock
The only problem about that is in those match-ups Liliana of the Veil needs to hit her ultimate as fast as possible, also any control deck with red is going to bolt her hard after you activate the Heart of Kiran. If you want a proactive vehicle I'd start by testing smugglers copter for early game damage and loot.
I don't understand this, Nahiri is queen of a proactive/disruptive strategy, why would you not include her? Most likely you are just going to be replacing her with a different kind of threat - but Nahiri already fits so well. I agree she doesn't belong in token version of Mardu but if your key idea is disrupting while putting yourself into a better position Nahiri is fantastic.
Beyond that curving into Liliana of the Veil on turn three and then Nahiri on turn four is back breaking.
Both are powerful against midrange but I will speak for the one I know Nahiri:
Midrange decks have a terrible time against me because we are both going 1 for 1, while I can go aggressive and swing with tokens or stop and be defensive and protect my planeswalkers until victory. Nahiri herself is fantastic against midrange, offering a three turn clock while cycling your hand to find the right disruption.
After that it depends on what you pull out of the sideboard, something like Elspeth, Sun's Champion will usually beat any midrange deck.
I might also consider running 2x Smugglers copters when I can get my hands on them. Still waiting for the price to drop completely though.
1. I've won with Nahiri, ultimating Lilliana, lingering souls, shambling vents, bolts etc.
2. Pretty sure path nails everything. Beyond that we have so many different methods of removal it's hard to believe they will all whiff.
3.Our 1 for 1 game is supplemented but planeswalkers and lingering souls. The latter is what allows us to usually beat jund. I also play confidant in my deck and would 100% recommend him to other mardu nahiri players.
4. I don't think heart or visitor belongs in this deck at all. But that's me.
Firstly here is my list:
2 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Wall of Omens
3 Dark Confidant
2 Lightning Helix
4 Lingering Souls
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Godless Shrine
4 Shambling Vent
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Polluted Delta
1 Inspiring Vantage
3 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Crackling Doom
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wrath of God
2 Wall of Omens
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
Match 1: 8Rack
8Rack is a tough match up due to having so many dead cards game one, and having ensnaring bridge main. However, if we can force the game into a stall our Planeswalkers or Shambling Vents can get us to victory.
Game 1: After a lucky Inquisition picked off my opponent's only Rack in hand, we emptied our hands. She played Ensnaring Bridge and Necrogen Mists, and I dropped Liliana of the Veil. Nothing much happened until I ticked her up to seven and ultimated, making my opponent choose between her lands or her artifacts/enchantments. After missing her second land drop her hand filled up allowing me to attack with Shambling Vent and Spirits tokens.
SIDEBOARD: -2 anger of the gods, -4 path to exile, +2 Wall of Omens, +2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation, +2 Timely Reinforcements
Game 2: I keep a one land hand knowing I wouldn't be able to cast most of it anyway, and keep the thoughtseize to hopefully snipe a rack. She lets me go first and it turns out she didn't have a rack effect in hand, so I grab the Smallpox to keep me from getting mana screwed. Luckily I hit all my land drops and manage a Nahiri right when she is able to drop two Racks. She redirects 8 damage from those racks over two turns, and I find my Engineered explosives to clear the racks. She drops a bridge, I play liliana, and the game takes the same turn as the first game. I eventually ultimate liliana, she sacrifices her lands and I use spirit tokens to win.
Match 2: Jeskai Control
I'm generally confident in this match-up, and it seemed my opponent was still new with the deck, and had made some budget choices.
Game 1: I fetch, shock, thoughtseize and follow it up with a Dark Confidant the next turn. Clearly not looking to keep too much life this round. He bolts it, and we both play passively for awhile. I have both lightning helix in my hand so I'm not too worried about being burned out. He starts sending his bolts at me, and I begin to attack with a shambling vent. Game comes to a close when I drop Nahiri and he drops Gideon Jura. By +2ing he's effectively nullifying Nahiri's ultimate by directing it at Gideon. I drop confidant and pass, he +2s again. I draw Liliana with bob and attack gideon. I think seeing liliana scared him so he mistakenly -2'd to kill bob. This let me ultimate Nahiri for the win.
SIDEBOARD: -2 anger of the gods, -1 engineered explosives, -2 path to exile, +2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation, +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Game 2: So sadly my sideboard choices were not the most relevant due my opponents deck choices, but I still think most of the time this would be my go-to sideboard. I keep a hand with Inquisition and six lands, two of which are vents. I see his hand is mainly countermagic so I just attack with vents repeatedly until we are both at eight mana. He drops his own Sun's champion and I realise I have no out to it, but decide to stay in the game. I play some lingering souls, and try to trade profitably with a Wall of Omens and my two vents. I drop two dark confidants and thoughtseize, seeing he has two Timely Reinforcements in hand and another Sun's Champion. Jeez. Luckily I'm at 25 health, so I'm not afraid of my confidants, which allow me to grab a lili. I start aggressively targeting his elspeth, chumping my confidants when I fall to 10 life. I force him to discard his timely reinforcements and he plays his second Elspeth. I play Nahiri and pick away at the new Elspeth. He keeps dividing his attacks between me and my planeswalkers and so I'm able block profitably while gaining life and keeping Liliana at one loyalty, forcing him to attack again. Finally after the second Elspeth goes down he draws into lands I ultimate Nahiri for the win.
Match 3: Bant Spirits
Game 1: I get an early Lili on the board to -2 away a Mausoleum Wanderer, and next turn he discards his Geist of St. Traft. My hand is all removal so I keep going 1 for 1 with his creatures, leaving us both hellbent after a Collected Company. Lili on the field I do my best to keep things unfair, but his second CoCo hits Spell Queller and Drogskol Captain. He backs them up with Gavony Township as I cast lingering souls. I follow up with Nahiri and use the Spirits defensively. Once I get close to ultimate he keeps Spell Queller untapped to defend against emrakul, and I -2 away the captain. He plays Nobel Hierarch and I path his queller, leaving a wall of omens up for defence. He doesn't draw into anything and I win with Nahiri.
SIDEBOARD: -1 Nahiri, the Harbinger, -2 Wall of Omens, +1 Wrath of God, +2 Crackling Doom
Game 2: He starts with a Heirarch which I bolt and passes turn two and three. I recognise that he probably has Spell Queller but drop a liliana into it anyway. He does have the queller and takes my lili, next turn playing a mausoleum wanderer and attacking with the queller. Sadly that is exactly what I want, as I play Nahiri the next turn, -2 to get my lili back, and -2 with lili to clear the board. After this he doesn't draw into anything more than a ratchet bomb which he uses on liliana, and finally flashes a rattlechains into play. I bolt it, which he spellquellers, which I then helix, and he concedes.
Conclusion:
As always Nahiri does solid work, but Liliana of the Veil ends up being the MVP of the night. Special mentions to Shambling Vents for gaining me easily more than 40 life total through all the games. My only changes to my deck list that I'm considering is replacing the third rest in peace for either Painful Truths or Phyrexian Arena.
That's it for now! Let me know if you have any questions or comments!
I don't know, outside of bob, wall or Lili - I'm not sure what we'd want to throw down at sorcery speed.
I find Terminate competes for space with Lightning Helix, and right now I think the Helixs are much more valuable. Path, Lili and Nahiri can all deal with the big creatures. Bolt and Helix are there for the little ones. I also never really feel the urge to run Dreadbore, Lingering souls and bolts usually clean up other planeswalkers.
I think it matters more what you are bringing into the match up as well. Kambal and Rest in Peace are often what I aim to grab unless it is Jeskai Nahiri, then I also have Crackling Doom for emrakul.
Haven't had a chance to play the deck often, been busy with school these days
I decided to start keeping track of games I play now, to try to figure out my win percentage with this deck. Once I start it up I'll post my results along with my decklist.
It was a great games, though the eldrazi player flooded out at the end. The Mardu player also often played Lingering Souls from his hand before flashing back - is that the right call? I prefer to keep LS in my hand using the graveyard ones first, so that I have more cards in hand and to avoid a 2 for 1 if they exile my graveyard. Am I wrong here?