I've played both the Noble and Nobleless decks and have to say that Nobles give the deck way more than any other creature or enchantment you can put in that slot. She makes the mana much more reliable, provides a pump to your Bogle, and gives you another Green one drop to work with. I've even stolen games by suiting one up against the right deck (such as Pod or anything non Red and White heavy).
Sideboard wise, Suppression Field at 3 is the correct call. I've sided them in all but one match up at the PTQ (vs. Scapeshift) and almost every match at the GPT. They help when you're not sure if Skite is coming in or not.
At the PTQ I lost to Melria Pod round 2 (mainly bad topdecks), U/R/w Splinter Twin in the 7th round (worst misplay of my career: scooping too early) and U/W control in the final round of swiss (t3 Geist with castle back up game 1 and 3). All loses were winnable matches so I believe that this deck does have a place in the Modern metagame.
I've also got the Mod 'go-a-head' to make a Primer for this deck. I should have it up by Friday based on my current work load. So if you have any match up analysis, any insight you might like to share, or if you want your list on the main post just shoot me a PM and I'll be sure to include it in the Primer. I used to be a featured writer for Blackborder.com and I'll make a real nice Primer for the deck
Thanks all, I look forward to improving this deck with you!
Why the miser Plains? Why didn't you play Keen Sense?
The Plains is strange to me, and Keen Sense has been pretty good to me.
If people don't like playing against a deck, and I'm assuming part of that dislike is in turn losing to the deck, then maybe, just maybe, you should play a deck that can beat the deck.
I played Slippery Bogle and his friend Gladecover Scout and about 30 other terrible cards in 3 PTQs. I played the deck chiefly due to access. Being able to play on MTGO with the deck (it was just as cheap online as in paper) allowed me to play a lot of games with it, and was a big part of my decision to play it. I knew that playing a deck I had played a lot of would give me an advantage in the wide open field that is Modern. I knew the deck wasn't particularly strong and was soft to many strategies, but alternatively very strong against other popular strategies.
I managed to Top 4 one PTQ, which I'm proud of, but by the end of the season I'm really, really tired of playing this deck. My plan now is to buy a ton of Modern Masters and trade up to having a playset of Goyfs, Vendilion Cliques and Cryptic Commands so I can play decks which contain these powerful cards. When I find a deck, I'll play it extensively throughout the year to be ready for the next PTQ season. Hopefully I'll have a deck ready for GP:KC.
If Eggs is banned, it wouldn't be based on power level, or even turn speed of kills, unless the deck can prove to reliably win on/before turn 3 >75% (I do not believe this to be true, especially postboard. I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong on this. If I am, then this metric should apply to the banning discussion.) If it were banned, I believe it would be banned based on...
1. Attendance, which the deck hasn't actually affected. This will be very difficult to quantify because of the relatively small amount of tournaments being played in Modern now, were it true. Caw-Blade, in contrast, was shown to be a problem, and had a huge set of data to look at.
2. Tournament time concerns. If one deck is adversly affecting a tournament and causing rounds to last longer, then something needs to change. This may be a rules change over a banning, however. (Personal Note: I hate waiting 30 minutes after time is called in the round for Eggs to play his game. I'd like to point out that no where in the Comp Rules says a player must concede a game. You have the right to lose. If its Game 3, you better believe I'm going to wait until I'm at 0 to concede. If you don't concede Game 1 to a boardstate that will win, it's your own damn fault if you go to time Game 2 though.)
Being able to take down Witchbane is a big reason to run Rakdos. It single handedly shuts off half of Jund's effective spells. May well be worth the look - either that or Acidic Slime should be brought in from the SB (which would make splashing white for resto SUPER broken...being able to pop and re-pop a land is pretty devastating)
I possibly see myself running both against Reanimator, certainly the Charm. I haven't sat down and figured out my post board plan quite yet, much less settled on my sideboard.
Might bring in Rakdos Charm g3 against UWx decks if I see an Orb. Can randomly respond to Snapcaster trigger too. Bringing Slime for game 2 though regardless. Hitting a land is good against Sphinx's Rev, hits Detention Sphere, hits Assemble the Legion (which is apperantly a Thing...) etc etc.
I like Tormod's Crypt. As you said, it allows me to run my own flashbacks and doesn't make DRS useless as RIP and Ground Seal do. Thanks.
If you want a Tormod-like effect, Rakdos Charm might be what you want. They can play around the Crypt on the board, but Rakdos Charm has the chance to get them. It also takes out Witchbane Orb to allow your Duress/Appetites/other Rakdos Charm to work. You randomly have the oppurtunity to kill them with it too, which is probably only relevant against a Human Reanimator deck, and even then a pretty large corner case, but still an option.
Didn't vote creature, because nothing about that is interesting. A creature, in the end, can be nothing more then just a dude.
Didn't vote sorcery/instant because those are just spells. No challenge there. I'd really like to see something interesting made. However, this category would be my second choice.
Didn't vote land because lands are frankly boring. We won't be able to make a cycle of enemy man-lands or anything else cool like that. A land YMTC would just be a man-land in one color or a land with a spell tacked on to it. Not interesting enough. I don't want to be voting on "which spell should we add 2 CMC to and put on this land?"
Artifacts- Feel overloaded on these because of Mirrodin. The card type already has a ton of support as well, not only recently but throughout Magic. YMTC should be about expanding horizons, doing something R&D hasn't thought of.
Enchantments got my vote. I voted for enchantments because recently they haven't been nearly as pushed as the other card types have been. In particular, I want to see a non-Aura enchantment. Non-Aura enchantments have the power to change the rules for a particular game, and bring the match to a different level. Much more exciting then a dude, a mana source with a spell stapled onto it, or a regular ol' spell.
I think we need to change the mana base and include at least 2 mana dorks.
Take out one horizon canopy or temple garden for a plains and change a forest fetch for a plains fetch. That way we can work against blood moon.
Also I feel Rest in Peace in the SB is not really necessary at the moment. I would rather have Suppression Field or Leyline instead.
Blood Moon does suck. The worse thing about Blood Moon is that many Blood Mooon decks play bolts, and since they can't target your win cons, (and probably not your face since you'll have leylines against bolt decks) they'll be targeting your mana dorks. I sadly board out my 2 Noble Hierarchs against RDW and the like, I just can't expect them to stay alive. They've been good against Affinity and other Blood Moon decks, however. As much as I'd love to play Plains and white fetches, I feel it will make other matchups harder for the chance at drawing the Plains/fetchland against the Blood Moon decks. And even then, it's a small chance. Personally, I've been pre-emptively boarding in Nature's Claim and fetching my Forest against decks that *might* be playing Blood Moon.
I have been considering other changes to my board after going 2-2 in a PTQ this weekend. UW(R) decks are pretty prevalent, and overall, boardwipes are being played more. I've been wanting to draw my totem armors in multiples, as such, I'm thinking of finding room to finish my playset of Spider Umbras. I also want a second Dryad Arbor, both to help againt Jund and for the board wipe decks. Here's the link to my current list. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9833027&postcount=180
Also, I got thrashed by Living End this weekend. That deck was really rough for me, and it doesn't seem like a terrible meta call right now either. You ought to be prepared for it. Rest in Peace is still "ok" against them and Eggs. Suppression Field, however, is pretty great at slowing down a lot of decks.
Had the idea to try a Wx deck with maindeck Suppression Field; the list that won the PTQ in Brno above seemed like a decent framework. Here's my first rough draft.
Hi guys. I am quite new to this forum, however, I have been monotoring the bogle modern deck for some time. I am contemplating getting in to modern, and I have taken an interest in this deck. I wanted to ask those of you who have some experience playing with this deck: how do you feel that is situated as opposed to other modern decks at the moment? Does bogle perform well?
I know the deck can have a hard time if the hate towards it is sufficient enough (back to nature, tempest of light, Lilliana etc), but I do believe that there are ways around it; rethether, noble hierarch and arbor to counter lilliana + other stuff I haven't mentioned. It seems like the activity in this thread has died somewhat over the last weeks, and I wanted to hear if there is anyone still putting up some decent results with this deck?
I top 4'd a PTQ last weekend, where the only enchantment hate I ever really saw was Golgari Charm/Echoing Truth. My impression is that paper players are not respecting the deck at all, and as such, aren't putting cards in sideboards to hate on it. You probably don't need Rethether.
Lilliana is and will always be played in Modern, she's just so good. She's not being played to hate on us, but you still need to be prepared to play against her all the same. Targeted discard is equally bad for us, because we're basically a combo deck. Losing a key combo piece- like a Bogle or Ethereal Armor/Rancor/Daybreak Coronet is really bad for this deck. You must be prepared to beat these strategies in games 2 & 3, which is why I play 4 Leyline of Sanctity.
In summary: Players aren't respecting the deck and aren't playing hate cards. Players and pros alike refer to the deck as "that stupid deck". Take advantage of this, play smart and win.
I'm rather new to bogle and read earlier in this thread about consistency issues (which I didn't believe were all that bad), then i had back to back mull to 3,4 (no lands; run 19 with 2 hierachs) in a PE event. Is a 5/6/7 card hand with the right creatures/enchant (w/ or w/o mu knowledge), but only dryad arbor keepable on the play (I might keep on the draw)?
Game 1, I would probably mulligan a 7 card hand with Dryad Arbor, Bogle and the rest being nut enchantments. Losing my mana source to a turn 1 bolt just seems terrible. Consider also that you only have 6-8 green enchantments- not only does your land need to stay alive for 2 turns, but you also can only play rancor/keen sense/spider umbra. This does not bode well for the survivability of the Bogle. You'd actually need to draw two white sources to even consider casting Daybreak Coronet.
On six cards, I would keep the "only arbor, bogle and enchants" hand game one only if there was a keen sense and was on the draw. Those extra cards would help in actually being able to play a game of magic. I might keep if I was up a game and felt like the matchup was good for me- for example, I'd probably keep this against Eggs. I would never keep this hand against lightning bolt decks unless I had a Leyline as well, and would mulligan quickly against Jund with the dryad arbor in hand. Losing that sacrifice defender is a big blow against Jund.
Down to 5 cards I'd keep it and hope to rip a land.
My basic mulligan principle falls down to: Can I (reasonably expect) to play a game of magic with these seven cards? If the answer is no, or is contingent on my opponent not having a turn 1 burn spell, I'll mulligan.
I've been running 2 paths and 2 mana tithe in the maindeck and now I want to jam two spellskites in somewhere.
The option of having the 4 paths is great. The tithes can be underwhelming, but they do catch cryptic commands (in Ux control variants) often enough. Dropping the 2 counters for 4 md paths and 2 spellskites in the sb for infect, other spellskites and the mirror seems nice to me, but 4 md paths can really blank sometimes.
I still don't know how I feel about 4 md paths, spellskites, and tithes. Thanks in advance for your experiences.
I think you're overvaluing spellskite. Game 1, your opponent probably doesn't have spellskites in his deck, and the card doesn't actually do anything to advance you winning. Infect and Bogles are such a small subset of the format I don't think maindecking for them is worth diluting your other matchups. (Ignore this if you play online. More people seem to be playing Bogles, Infect and the other "cheap" I-win decks online. Maindecking 2 Skites online seems OK. Paper, not so much.)
Sideboard, I still don't really want Spellskite. Again, Infect and Bogles aren't big players in the meta. Decks that run spellskite generally play high-impact creatures anyways that you want to kill, which is why I run 2 Dismember in my board. That, and most Spellskite decks also have things that Stony Silence and/or Suppression Field stop. An important thing to note is that most of my sideboard cards are enchantments- which pumps Ethereal Armor that much more.
For reference, here's the sideboard that I last played with:
I'm considering cutting the Rest in Peace for something else. No one seems to be reanimating nowadays. I might even replace them with Lifelink (or Spirit Link) to give me something to bring in against the wave of RG Aggro decks that seem to be a thing.
I wonder if the statistics given is purely pack 1 first picks, or all packs. While I'd probably never first pick a Crocanura pack 1, I can see myself taking it from a lackluster pack in packs 2 or 3 when I'm already in green.
It's interesting to note that many of the mythic picks are also money picks. I'd snap pick an Obzedat or Aurelia in 90% of drafts in packs 2 or 3.
I've built bogle for the ptq this last weekend and upcoming modern fnm's. Thanks to everyone on the thread for sharing your experiences.
Ive had a little trouble with the sideboard, sometimes I dont know what to optimize, what to play.
I currently have
2 Sunlance
3 Suppression feild
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Rest in Peace
1 Spirit Mantle
2 Stony Silence
2 Quasali Pridemage
as my sideboard.
You really, really need Leyline of Sanctity. 4-of if you can find the room. This deck mulligans pretty often; you can't afford to lose a card to turn 1 Inquisition or Thoughtseize. Especially if that card they take is Slippery Bogle, and its the only one in your hand. Consider that every burn spell your opponent plays is now targeting your face. Leyline shuts down Lilliana, execpt her discard which is fine for this deck.
Furthermore, consider: Can you cast your Pridemage through a turn 2 Blood Moon? Fetch your Forest and use Nature's Claim.
Ghost Quarter seems pretty bad, what do you even want that for? Manlands? Suppression Field deals with those, and even then, only Affinitys lands are a real issue.
Chipping in on the 3x Stony Silence discussion: Stony is solid against Tron, Affinity and Eggs, all popular decks. You want to draw this card against these decks, every time.
I'd probably go with 4 ISD and 2 DKA. Rares like Bloodline Keeper and Mayor of Avabruck were the Pack Rat of those days- and the rest of the set can hold its own as well. Even uncommons like Galvanic Juggernaut won games in those days. I imagine they will crush most decks from other sets. Flashback spells like Silent Departure give you a lot of card advantage that spells in the other packs just don't have. Sets after DKA were built with less removal to support mechanics- take advantage of that by having more removal spells to shut down Cipher/Soulbond/Exalted/Bloodrush synergies. Victim of Night becomes *much* better in this mixed format.
Why the miser Plains? Why didn't you play Keen Sense?
The Plains is strange to me, and Keen Sense has been pretty good to me.
I managed to Top 4 one PTQ, which I'm proud of, but by the end of the season I'm really, really tired of playing this deck. My plan now is to buy a ton of Modern Masters and trade up to having a playset of Goyfs, Vendilion Cliques and Cryptic Commands so I can play decks which contain these powerful cards. When I find a deck, I'll play it extensively throughout the year to be ready for the next PTQ season. Hopefully I'll have a deck ready for GP:KC.
1. Attendance, which the deck hasn't actually affected. This will be very difficult to quantify because of the relatively small amount of tournaments being played in Modern now, were it true. Caw-Blade, in contrast, was shown to be a problem, and had a huge set of data to look at.
2. Tournament time concerns. If one deck is adversly affecting a tournament and causing rounds to last longer, then something needs to change. This may be a rules change over a banning, however. (Personal Note: I hate waiting 30 minutes after time is called in the round for Eggs to play his game. I'd like to point out that no where in the Comp Rules says a player must concede a game. You have the right to lose. If its Game 3, you better believe I'm going to wait until I'm at 0 to concede. If you don't concede Game 1 to a boardstate that will win, it's your own damn fault if you go to time Game 2 though.)
I possibly see myself running both against Reanimator, certainly the Charm. I haven't sat down and figured out my post board plan quite yet, much less settled on my sideboard.
Might bring in Rakdos Charm g3 against UWx decks if I see an Orb. Can randomly respond to Snapcaster trigger too. Bringing Slime for game 2 though regardless. Hitting a land is good against Sphinx's Rev, hits Detention Sphere, hits Assemble the Legion (which is apperantly a Thing...) etc etc.
If you want a Tormod-like effect, Rakdos Charm might be what you want. They can play around the Crypt on the board, but Rakdos Charm has the chance to get them. It also takes out Witchbane Orb to allow your Duress/Appetites/other Rakdos Charm to work. You randomly have the oppurtunity to kill them with it too, which is probably only relevant against a Human Reanimator deck, and even then a pretty large corner case, but still an option.
Didn't vote sorcery/instant because those are just spells. No challenge there. I'd really like to see something interesting made. However, this category would be my second choice.
Didn't vote land because lands are frankly boring. We won't be able to make a cycle of enemy man-lands or anything else cool like that. A land YMTC would just be a man-land in one color or a land with a spell tacked on to it. Not interesting enough. I don't want to be voting on "which spell should we add 2 CMC to and put on this land?"
Artifacts- Feel overloaded on these because of Mirrodin. The card type already has a ton of support as well, not only recently but throughout Magic. YMTC should be about expanding horizons, doing something R&D hasn't thought of.
Enchantments got my vote. I voted for enchantments because recently they haven't been nearly as pushed as the other card types have been. In particular, I want to see a non-Aura enchantment. Non-Aura enchantments have the power to change the rules for a particular game, and bring the match to a different level. Much more exciting then a dude, a mana source with a spell stapled onto it, or a regular ol' spell.
Blood Moon does suck. The worse thing about Blood Moon is that many Blood Mooon decks play bolts, and since they can't target your win cons, (and probably not your face since you'll have leylines against bolt decks) they'll be targeting your mana dorks. I sadly board out my 2 Noble Hierarchs against RDW and the like, I just can't expect them to stay alive. They've been good against Affinity and other Blood Moon decks, however. As much as I'd love to play Plains and white fetches, I feel it will make other matchups harder for the chance at drawing the Plains/fetchland against the Blood Moon decks. And even then, it's a small chance. Personally, I've been pre-emptively boarding in Nature's Claim and fetching my Forest against decks that *might* be playing Blood Moon.
I have been considering other changes to my board after going 2-2 in a PTQ this weekend. UW(R) decks are pretty prevalent, and overall, boardwipes are being played more. I've been wanting to draw my totem armors in multiples, as such, I'm thinking of finding room to finish my playset of Spider Umbras. I also want a second Dryad Arbor, both to help againt Jund and for the board wipe decks. Here's the link to my current list. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9833027&postcount=180
Also, I got thrashed by Living End this weekend. That deck was really rough for me, and it doesn't seem like a terrible meta call right now either. You ought to be prepared for it. Rest in Peace is still "ok" against them and Eggs. Suppression Field, however, is pretty great at slowing down a lot of decks.
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Fetid Heath
4 Plains
3 Swamp
3 Leonin Arbiter
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Blade Splicer
4 Hero of Bladehold
3 Restoration Angel
4 Path to Exile
3 Suppression Field
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Lingering Souls
2 Dismember
I top 4'd a PTQ last weekend, where the only enchantment hate I ever really saw was Golgari Charm/Echoing Truth. My impression is that paper players are not respecting the deck at all, and as such, aren't putting cards in sideboards to hate on it. You probably don't need Rethether.
Lilliana is and will always be played in Modern, she's just so good. She's not being played to hate on us, but you still need to be prepared to play against her all the same. Targeted discard is equally bad for us, because we're basically a combo deck. Losing a key combo piece- like a Bogle or Ethereal Armor/Rancor/Daybreak Coronet is really bad for this deck. You must be prepared to beat these strategies in games 2 & 3, which is why I play 4 Leyline of Sanctity.
In summary: Players aren't respecting the deck and aren't playing hate cards. Players and pros alike refer to the deck as "that stupid deck". Take advantage of this, play smart and win.
Game 1, I would probably mulligan a 7 card hand with Dryad Arbor, Bogle and the rest being nut enchantments. Losing my mana source to a turn 1 bolt just seems terrible. Consider also that you only have 6-8 green enchantments- not only does your land need to stay alive for 2 turns, but you also can only play rancor/keen sense/spider umbra. This does not bode well for the survivability of the Bogle. You'd actually need to draw two white sources to even consider casting Daybreak Coronet.
On six cards, I would keep the "only arbor, bogle and enchants" hand game one only if there was a keen sense and was on the draw. Those extra cards would help in actually being able to play a game of magic. I might keep if I was up a game and felt like the matchup was good for me- for example, I'd probably keep this against Eggs. I would never keep this hand against lightning bolt decks unless I had a Leyline as well, and would mulligan quickly against Jund with the dryad arbor in hand. Losing that sacrifice defender is a big blow against Jund.
Down to 5 cards I'd keep it and hope to rip a land.
My basic mulligan principle falls down to: Can I (reasonably expect) to play a game of magic with these seven cards? If the answer is no, or is contingent on my opponent not having a turn 1 burn spell, I'll mulligan.
I think you're overvaluing spellskite. Game 1, your opponent probably doesn't have spellskites in his deck, and the card doesn't actually do anything to advance you winning. Infect and Bogles are such a small subset of the format I don't think maindecking for them is worth diluting your other matchups. (Ignore this if you play online. More people seem to be playing Bogles, Infect and the other "cheap" I-win decks online. Maindecking 2 Skites online seems OK. Paper, not so much.)
Sideboard, I still don't really want Spellskite. Again, Infect and Bogles aren't big players in the meta. Decks that run spellskite generally play high-impact creatures anyways that you want to kill, which is why I run 2 Dismember in my board. That, and most Spellskite decks also have things that Stony Silence and/or Suppression Field stop. An important thing to note is that most of my sideboard cards are enchantments- which pumps Ethereal Armor that much more.
For reference, here's the sideboard that I last played with:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Dismember
2 Suppression Field
3 Stony Silence
2 Nature's Claim
I'm considering cutting the Rest in Peace for something else. No one seems to be reanimating nowadays. I might even replace them with Lifelink (or Spirit Link) to give me something to bring in against the wave of RG Aggro decks that seem to be a thing.
It's interesting to note that many of the mythic picks are also money picks. I'd snap pick an Obzedat or Aurelia in 90% of drafts in packs 2 or 3.
You really, really need Leyline of Sanctity. 4-of if you can find the room. This deck mulligans pretty often; you can't afford to lose a card to turn 1 Inquisition or Thoughtseize. Especially if that card they take is Slippery Bogle, and its the only one in your hand. Consider that every burn spell your opponent plays is now targeting your face. Leyline shuts down Lilliana, execpt her discard which is fine for this deck.
Furthermore, consider: Can you cast your Pridemage through a turn 2 Blood Moon? Fetch your Forest and use Nature's Claim.
Ghost Quarter seems pretty bad, what do you even want that for? Manlands? Suppression Field deals with those, and even then, only Affinitys lands are a real issue.
Chipping in on the 3x Stony Silence discussion: Stony is solid against Tron, Affinity and Eggs, all popular decks. You want to draw this card against these decks, every time.