I don't run Triskelavus, Pentavus, Pawn of Ulamog or Wokhorse. I had strongly thought about Pentavus and Pawn of Ulamog but never pulled the trigger due to higher cmc and my thought of the overall deck synergy. Again I don't base around infinite combos so I looked at those cards as their individual value towards the deck.
Your guys Thoughts???
I had them all in the deck before I ever knew it could do crazy infinite stuff. I really like Triskelavus and Pentavus. They churn out so many little fliers. People forget that Trskelavus's tokens can sac and ping things. That usually catches them off guard. The Pawn is super great too bacause he basically mana ramps you. All the tokens from these three dudes are great to sac to Altars or to draw cards w/ via skull clamp.
Pawn is real nice with thoughtpicker witch. It lets you sac a dude to the witch and gives you a token that allows you to keep sacrificing your guys basically nullifying the 1 mana activation.
Workhorse is pretty good in my deck. He provides so much mana. I also have Soldevi Adnate and Priest of yawgmoth in my deck so I can make take off all but 1 counter and then use one of thier abilities to sac it for 6 more mana. He is horrible to cast the first time but he starts making up for that real quick. That being said I can see why people don't play Workhorse.
I can get land, dudes, random artifacts that I need, sac outlets, Mindslaver...etc. It is essetially a free tutor. I actually just took out Magister's Scepter/Coretapper from my deck but I would usually try get that out. Depending on if you already have a piece out you can pull it off faster but I would usually try to get Thousand-Year Elixer, Unwinding Clock, then the rest of the pieces that usually wrapped things up quick. You just need to make sure you have enough artifact dudes to make it work.
Off topic but I love filter cards through Mindless Automaton turning crad into potential gas. Plus if you have cadaver imp, junk diver, or myr retriever you end up getting some of the cards pack if you plan it right. It also can set up cheaty ways to get dudes into play off of Apprentice Necromancer or Hell's Caretaker. Everyone I play with knows if I get Ashnod's Altar or Mindless Automaton out things could get scary quick.
I'm interested in adding more infinite combos to the deck (a few of my friends are very competitive). I know about the Myr Retriever +Mindslaver combo, and the Hell's Caretaker combo, what are the others?
Contamination lock is pretty easy to pull off in this deck. I've had many a conversation with people about it and have come to basically see it as a black Rule of Law. If your opponents are good deck builders they should have some artifact that taps for colored mana so it really just limits them to one spell per turn. Although if your opponents are sloppy deck builders it will just cripple them. Many times all you need is Contamination and Reassembling Skeleton and not even Shirei.
I'm not a huge fan of Blade of the Bloodchief it goes against Shizo's synergy that's the only reason I don't run it. My deck has been built for getting Shirei's engine online, sacrificing 1/1's and controlling the board in doing so. Magistrate's Scepter + Coretapper would be a pretty unfriendly combo in my league. and I haven't convinced myself to put in Mindslaver and the only reason I would include it is to lock out another controlling player.
I think you are missing the point of Blade of the Bloodchief. I never hook it up to guys I want to come back unless I have something to use the counters on. It is amazing with Mindless Automaton (Insane Insane Card Draw), Triskelion (more pings), Triskelavus (more dudes, more pings), Pentavus (more dudes), Wokhorse (more mana), Shirei (get in for general damage), or Inkmoth Nexus (poison kill). At worst you can hook it to a token to get in for more damage, hook it up to 1 of your 1/x dudes to finish someone off, or hook it up to an enabler that Shirei can't bring back. The Enabler that I run that aren't 1/x dudes are Kuldotha Forgemaster, Flesh-Eater Imp, Sadistic Hypnotist, Phyrexian Plaguelord, Pawn of Ulamog, and Butcher of Malakir. The simple fact that it makes Shirei harder to kill, works with a lot of things in my deck, and once you have the game down to where you need to win it is a makes winning a lot easier really makes it a no brainer for me.
It doesn't hurt that once you have it on Pentavus or Triskelavus and ashnod's altar in play you can make infinite dudes/infinite mana with Pentavus, and infinite damage/infinite mana with Triskelavus...or just infinte Butcher/Gravepact/Pawn of Ulamog/Jar of Eyeballs triggers with phyrexian altar.
Sounds like you have a pretty aggressive build. My win condition is usually bashing with a bunch of 1/1s while my opponents are sitting there with no cards in their hand or on the field.
I'm interested in adding more infinite combos to the deck (a few of my friends are very competitive). I know about the Myr Retriever +Mindslaver combo, and the Hell's Caretaker combo, what are the others?
Everyone else has probably figured this out already, but I've been winning a lot of my games by using a Black Cat or Ashen-Skin Zubera lock. Usually my opponents are top decking pretty quickly, and with a sacrifice outlet, both of the above cards can usually lock the rest of the table out of the game. (It's pretty rare that they find a really good and troublesome instant, but if they do, you're going to get ganged up on for doing the lock.)
I recently just put those 2 back in as well as Noxious Toad. I sometimes play with Thieving Sprite which is not as good because you can't control when someone discards but it flies. I sometimes don't run these guys because I can just tutor up Sadistic Hypnotist and it does about the same thing. kind of.
I will usually kill at least 1 person with Flesh-Eater Imp. Blade of the Bloodchief on Inkmoth Nexus sometime too.
Hell's Caretaker says on your upkeep so as long as it remains your upkeep you can use him as many times as you want. When you sacrifice a dude the thornbite staff untaps the caretaker allowing you to keep doing it over and over. From there you can take advantage of anything with a enters the battlefield trigger infinitely. From my understanding you can sac a dude and get it back since the sac is part of the cost to activate. Either way it isn't to hard to come up with something that can kill everyone. I like Triskelion. Although I have exiled everones deck via infinite spawn tokens from Pawn of Ulamog and then using them for mana and fodder to activate Thoughtpicker Witch. Lots of things you can do.
The league I play in frowns on easily achievable infinite combos and outrageously lock down decks. even though I run Thornbite Staff with Hell's Caretaker I don't looking to set that up unless its late game and really begging to be played.
There are actually several ways for my deck to go infinite but they usually require multiple specific cards and rarely happen. Just some of the cards are a little more combo oriented. Although most are just good cards in the deck and can do crazy things with other cards that are good in the deck.
I run it in mine. I have yet to do anything with it but it seems strong. I have had other Shirei players tell me it is pretty good. My version is a bit different than this by having more artifacts. It has Kuldotha Forgemaster as well as all the tutors to grab it. I also have Magistrate's Scepter and Coretapper combo in it. As well as a bunch of other mini combos (several involving Thornbite Staff). All in I do most of my killing with Lightning Coils. That card is nuts.
I think he can be pretty insane in this deck. With Shirei online, two other creatures and a sac outlet you are making a 5/5 demon token on every players turn. None of which is by no means difficult to accomplish.
not every players turn unless you have a way to give it haste. I personally have it in my Shirei deck. If you get a Thornbite Staff on it everything goes crazy with a sac outlet and just a few dudes.
Kiyomaro seems weak, even for your theme. Something like Konda, Lord of Eiganjo seems like a much more efficient beater, and is an old man.
I always look at Konda as viable, can't disagree with you at all. I need to get some more play time in with the deck to see what is working and not working with all the recent changes. I have yet to get out Kiyomaro so i would like to try and get him in play a few times before I cut him.
Since there was some activity on this post I decided to update the list. I took out some of the crappy pump enchantments and few other things. Added some more counterspells and Archivist and Talas Researchers.
Walter Sobchak: Look at that ____ing phony, Dude, pretending to be a ____ing millionaire.
Big Lebowski: Out of this house now, you bums!
Walter Sobchak: Let me tell you something else. I've seen a lot of spinals, Dude, and this guy's a fake. A ____ing goldbricker.
Big lebowski: Stay away from me, mister!
Walter Sobchak: This guy ____in' walks. I've never been more certain of anything in my life. Disempower
Walter Sobchak: Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax...
Walter Sobchak: You're goddamn right I'm living in the ____ing past! Ancestral Memories
Maude Lebowski: If you successfully do so, I will compensate you to the tune of 10 percent of the recovered sum.
The Dude: [stunned] A hundred...
Maude Lebowski:Thousand, yes bones or clams or whatever you call them. Prosperity
Bill Selliger: Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Selliger of the Southern Cal bowling league. I just got a report that a member of your team Walter Sobchak drew a firearm during league play. Ritual of Steel
The Dude: Oh boy. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus. Farmstead
Walter Sobchak: When we make the handoff, I double back, grab one of 'em and beat it out of him! Strategic Planning
I had them all in the deck before I ever knew it could do crazy infinite stuff. I really like Triskelavus and Pentavus. They churn out so many little fliers. People forget that Trskelavus's tokens can sac and ping things. That usually catches them off guard. The Pawn is super great too bacause he basically mana ramps you. All the tokens from these three dudes are great to sac to Altars or to draw cards w/ via skull clamp.
Pawn is real nice with thoughtpicker witch. It lets you sac a dude to the witch and gives you a token that allows you to keep sacrificing your guys basically nullifying the 1 mana activation.
Workhorse is pretty good in my deck. He provides so much mana. I also have Soldevi Adnate and Priest of yawgmoth in my deck so I can make take off all but 1 counter and then use one of thier abilities to sac it for 6 more mana. He is horrible to cast the first time but he starts making up for that real quick. That being said I can see why people don't play Workhorse.
I can get land, dudes, random artifacts that I need, sac outlets, Mindslaver...etc. It is essetially a free tutor. I actually just took out Magister's Scepter/Coretapper from my deck but I would usually try get that out. Depending on if you already have a piece out you can pull it off faster but I would usually try to get Thousand-Year Elixer, Unwinding Clock, then the rest of the pieces that usually wrapped things up quick. You just need to make sure you have enough artifact dudes to make it work.
Off topic but I love filter cards through Mindless Automaton turning crad into potential gas. Plus if you have cadaver imp, junk diver, or myr retriever you end up getting some of the cards pack if you plan it right. It also can set up cheaty ways to get dudes into play off of Apprentice Necromancer or Hell's Caretaker. Everyone I play with knows if I get Ashnod's Altar or Mindless Automaton out things could get scary quick.
Contamination lock is pretty easy to pull off in this deck. I've had many a conversation with people about it and have come to basically see it as a black Rule of Law. If your opponents are good deck builders they should have some artifact that taps for colored mana so it really just limits them to one spell per turn. Although if your opponents are sloppy deck builders it will just cripple them. Many times all you need is Contamination and Reassembling Skeleton and not even Shirei.
I think you are missing the point of Blade of the Bloodchief. I never hook it up to guys I want to come back unless I have something to use the counters on. It is amazing with Mindless Automaton (Insane Insane Card Draw), Triskelion (more pings), Triskelavus (more dudes, more pings), Pentavus (more dudes), Wokhorse (more mana), Shirei (get in for general damage), or Inkmoth Nexus (poison kill). At worst you can hook it to a token to get in for more damage, hook it up to 1 of your 1/x dudes to finish someone off, or hook it up to an enabler that Shirei can't bring back. The Enabler that I run that aren't 1/x dudes are Kuldotha Forgemaster, Flesh-Eater Imp, Sadistic Hypnotist, Phyrexian Plaguelord, Pawn of Ulamog, and Butcher of Malakir. The simple fact that it makes Shirei harder to kill, works with a lot of things in my deck, and once you have the game down to where you need to win it is a makes winning a lot easier really makes it a no brainer for me.
It doesn't hurt that once you have it on Pentavus or Triskelavus and ashnod's altar in play you can make infinite dudes/infinite mana with Pentavus, and infinite damage/infinite mana with Triskelavus...or just infinte Butcher/Gravepact/Pawn of Ulamog/Jar of Eyeballs triggers with phyrexian altar.
These ones are pretty easy.
Magistrate's Scepter + Coretapper
Pentavus/Triskelavus + Blade of the Bloodchief + Ashnods Altar
I have also put Blade of the Bloodchief on Shirei and general damaged people. The land Shizo can help w/ getting in there.
I recently just put those 2 back in as well as Noxious Toad. I sometimes play with Thieving Sprite which is not as good because you can't control when someone discards but it flies. I sometimes don't run these guys because I can just tutor up Sadistic Hypnotist and it does about the same thing. kind of.
I will usually kill at least 1 person with Flesh-Eater Imp. Blade of the Bloodchief on Inkmoth Nexus sometime too.
Hell's Caretaker says on your upkeep so as long as it remains your upkeep you can use him as many times as you want. When you sacrifice a dude the thornbite staff untaps the caretaker allowing you to keep doing it over and over. From there you can take advantage of anything with a enters the battlefield trigger infinitely. From my understanding you can sac a dude and get it back since the sac is part of the cost to activate. Either way it isn't to hard to come up with something that can kill everyone. I like Triskelion. Although I have exiled everones deck via infinite spawn tokens from Pawn of Ulamog and then using them for mana and fodder to activate Thoughtpicker Witch. Lots of things you can do.
There are actually several ways for my deck to go infinite but they usually require multiple specific cards and rarely happen. Just some of the cards are a little more combo oriented. Although most are just good cards in the deck and can do crazy things with other cards that are good in the deck.
I run it in mine. I have yet to do anything with it but it seems strong. I have had other Shirei players tell me it is pretty good. My version is a bit different than this by having more artifacts. It has Kuldotha Forgemaster as well as all the tutors to grab it. I also have Magistrate's Scepter and Coretapper combo in it. As well as a bunch of other mini combos (several involving Thornbite Staff). All in I do most of my killing with Lightning Coils. That card is nuts.
The first time I ever got out the priest I had the staff out. It was pretty nuts.
not every players turn unless you have a way to give it haste. I personally have it in my Shirei deck. If you get a Thornbite Staff on it everything goes crazy with a sac outlet and just a few dudes.
I always look at Konda as viable, can't disagree with you at all. I need to get some more play time in with the deck to see what is working and not working with all the recent changes. I have yet to get out Kiyomaro so i would like to try and get him in play a few times before I cut him.
Well Played Sir. Thanks for regulating so I didn't have too.
Walter Sobchak: Look at that ____ing phony, Dude, pretending to be a ____ing millionaire.
Big Lebowski: Out of this house now, you bums!
Walter Sobchak: Let me tell you something else. I've seen a lot of spinals, Dude, and this guy's a fake. A ____ing goldbricker.
Big lebowski: Stay away from me, mister!
Walter Sobchak: This guy ____in' walks. I've never been more certain of anything in my life.
Disempower
Walter Sobchak: Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax...
Walter Sobchak: You're goddamn right I'm living in the ____ing past!
Ancestral Memories
Maude Lebowski: If you successfully do so, I will compensate you to the tune of 10 percent of the recovered sum.
The Dude: [stunned] A hundred...
Maude Lebowski:Thousand, yes bones or clams or whatever you call them.
Prosperity
Bill Selliger: Mr. Lebowski, this is Bill Selliger of the Southern Cal bowling league. I just got a report that a member of your team Walter Sobchak drew a firearm during league play.
Ritual of Steel
The Dude: Oh boy. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus.
Farmstead
Walter Sobchak: When we make the handoff, I double back, grab one of 'em and beat it out of him!
Strategic Planning
Almost Any Character: ____ It!!
Apathy
More “Shut the ____ Ups”
abjure
Aura of Silence
Disrupt
Meddle
Donny Not Getting a Strike before he dies
Foreshadow
Walter and the Dude taking care of Donny’s Cremation/ashes scattering
Debt of Loyalty
Spreading Donny’s Ashes
Dissipate
Dude Crashing his car twice
Jolt
Nihilists
Backfire