biggest problem is that it becomes a dead draw in a late game. In almost any aggro deck outside of limited, I find that I generally wish I had a creature instead.
Does anyone have any suggestions for an answer for Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite ? I played Solar Flare twice last night in FNM. I lost both times, 1-2 and 0-2. Three of those four game losses were solely because of Elesh Norn.
I was thinking about using Oblivion Ring for it in the sideboard.
Also, Surgical Extraction is great against Solar Flare, but they don't necessarily RELY on putting the big creatures in their graveyard.
Either way, I've played Tempered Steel in three tourneys now, and I would say Elesh Norn is the WORST card for Tempered Steel to deal with, even more than Day of Judgment or Slagstorm . This card wrecks Tempered Steel.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is legendary, so any thing that will copy it such as [cad]Phyrexian Metamorph[/card], will cause it to leave the field. allowing you to hopefully re-stabilize with your hero's and and anything that is still left.
O-ring and dispatches are a must. The dispatch will work if you happen to be running the CFB build with significant amount of non creature artifacts.
I'm not sold on surgical extraction. it doesn't seem like it would help accel to victory.
A card i was running to deal with legendary, was Phantasmal Image. Its really low mana cost makes it a surprise. Who cares if they target it, its copying a legendary or a titan, so i got my two mana use out of it at the very least.
The greatest Downside is only 8-10 blue mana sources(2-3 mox opal, 4 seachrome coast and 2-4 glacial fortress) It only happened a couple of times, over about 15 games, but I didn't have a blue source. If we were to alter out threats and put in a mana dork we'd turn the deck into a mid to late threat. At this time I don't think that is where we should be going though.
Its an EXTREMELY unexpected play. I mentioned it to my EDH play group today and the scoffed (i said it with an extreme amount of sarcasm).
This FNM my lgs is running extended, should mana leak be included even though I will be using a much more aggressive build with the steel overseer's and the master of ethrium's?
Yep. Blue Splash, but not at all what people are trying to do with it. Frankly, I put the deck back together while slightly (or not) intoxicated, thus the mental error in the Glacial Fortress over Seachrome Coast (after 3 lands, I'm not as worried). The Think Twice addition was phenomenal, as one of my biggest complaints in TS was running out of gas, and Think Twice did a great job of putting me over the top a few times. Mana Leak from Tempered Steel was brutal, as no one expected to have to play around it, and against the sheer speed of TS they couldn't really afford to anyways.
Round 1 vs Esper Control Good Stuff
A deck and player that has given me a lot of problems in past weeks. Solid Esper "good stuff" brew. Removal, Counters, Inkmoths, Haunts, Swords, Gideon, Days, just... a lot of answers.
Game 1 I stuck a shrine on t2 and landed my Tempered Steel on turn 5 after he tapped out for Gideon. Game was a bit of a grind, but being able to break a shrine for 8 with a 2nd TS on the board finally got there.
Game 2, Esper Good Stuff does what it does best, and that's simply answer everything you are trying to do before eventually taking over w/ little dudes. A pair of Timely Reinforcements out of the board broke my back, and the tokens + moorland tokens snuck through 3 and 4 damage at a time.
Game 3 - Went to time due to long games of play, answer, play, answer, answer, play answer, and having to beat through two Gideons. May have snuck it out if I had 2 more turns, but against this deck and player, I was more than happy to take the draw.
Round 2 (0-0-1) vs Wolf Run Ramp (0-1-0)
Yay for paired down... against a t1 deck.
Game 1 - I almost felt bad. T1 Inkmoth Vault Skirge. T2 Plains Vault Skirge Vault Skirge. T3 Glacial Tempered Steel... 9 lifelink... yes plz! Turn 4 scoop.
Game 2 - Not as quick, but still got my t1 Skirge and landed a signal pest and TS in following turns to put him on a clock. He tried an acidic slime at one point which was met with Mana Leak and that pretty much summed it up.
Round 3 (1-0-1) vs Wolf Run Ramp (2-0-0)
Yay for... wait... paired up against the same deck...
Game 1 - Simply too fast. She landed a Dungrove Elder early on, but couldn't keep up with the aerial assault of Signal Pest + double Vault Skirge. She landed a Primeval, but it was too little too late.
Game 2 - Looked almost identical. Early Skirge + Pest vs Early Dungrove, she ramped a little, I dropped a TS, and eventually Leaked her Titan to end the race.
Round 4 (2-0-1) vs GW Humans Brew (3-0-0)
Solid GW Humans Brew deck that has been a consistent top 4 at our lgs. One of the few decks I have seen that is nearly on par with TS in terms of speed aggro.
Game 1 - Plains Mox, Skirge Memnite Pest. T2 Inkmoth Pest Idol. 2 Lifelink dmg. T3 TS, swing for 11 (5 Lifelink). Scoop on her t3 due to no answer.
Game 2 - Plains Mox, Skirge. T2 Plains Pest Pest (Dispatched something on her turn). T3 Steel, swing for 11, scoop on her t4.
Double Pest + Skirge + TS is just... really hard to answer on t3.
Round 5 (Final) (3-0-1) vs UW Humans (4-0-0)
No swords that I saw, but solid humans using GoST + Angelic as well as your typical other human staples.
Game 1 - Not the best opening hand, but keepable, I couldn't find a TS to get it done, Giest + Angelic Destiny did me in. I did drop a leak at some point during game 1 which threw him off a bit.
Game 2 - Leak paid dividends in g1 as it confused my opponent who brought in Grand Abolisher which was essentially a vanilla 2/2. Akward game in which neither of us landed much in the way of threats, but a pair of Inkmoths got it done.
Game 3- Decent start with Skirge, Pest, Memnite, Mox, Plains opener, however stalled because of his t2 Honor the Pure, followed by T3 Geist. My t3 I dropped a TS giving Memnite the body to block the GoST only to see a 2nd Honor dropped on his following turn. Took 10 to the face. Landed a Glint Hawk Idol which coupled with TS won the game for me, as his next turn he appeared to either misplay, or decide to just try and get at least the 6 dmg coming from the angel (possibly get me to block w/ Skirge?). Activated Idol to block, dispatched the angel. I eventually landed a Hero for the 1st time (well, 1st time that he stuck) and the tokens broke through for the win.
I'm considering looking through blue to see if there are any other viable options from the color. I don't think I like the Moorland Haunt theory as it lacks synergy with TS (yay 1/1s?). More to the point, thinning my mana base even more worries me. Obviously the Glacials are getting replaced by Seachromes.
Vault Skirge is hands down my favorite card in standard right now. a "1" drop with Flying, Lifelink and built in protection from both Doom Blade and GftT is just brutal. Paired with TS or Pest he's a house.
I rarely utilized the SB throughout the night, with the exception of bringing in an additional Dispatch, or O Ring, though Round 1 I did bring my Revoke Existences in. Rally was in the SB in case I needed help extending, but it never felt warranted. Metamorph was tossed in for Titan copying (yay for Artifact Titan!) or Thrun if he ever showed his face. I considered siding him in against my Round 5 opponent to deal w/ GoST, but it didn't seem necessary. Nothing Red or Black to fear enough for the purges, though they certainly stay in just in case.
Overall.. I was VERY happy w/ how it ran after the "mono" white version stalled repeatedly on me at States causing me to move on to other decks for a while.
That card could work in theory, I might have to try it out in the SB
It seems good, but I am not sure if its enough. I feel that maybe a combination with Surgical Extraction might work. Primarily because you won't know what hate they are playing until they play it. And surgical extraction will do a much better job of preventing them from replaying it. I also say combination because you will be able to LOOK through their deck and see what other hate they are playing.
4 Memnites, 4 Glint Hawk Idols, and 4 Dispatch is a must. Those cards are way too important to the deck to skimp on. I think you should also be using Inkmoth Nexus as well but with Township also in your deck that's probably unfeasible.
Solemn is definitely not needed - what exactly are you ramping into? Sure it's nice if they DoJ and you get to draw a card but a 4 mana 2/2 isn't what this deck is about. I don't particularly care for Tezz's Gambit either though I guess if you are playing Township and Travel Preparations it might be okay.
Ratchet Bomb hardly does anything against Wolf Run Ramp unless you like killing their mana dorks. And Moonmist does nothing. The fact that you want to use them both makes me think you're actually talking about R/G Werewolves and not Wolf Run Ramp. If that's the case I still would not use them as Ratchet Bomb usually hurts us and Moonmist is only useful if you actually draw the Ratchet Bomb as well.
Please do not bother with Nihil Spellbomb or Purify the Grave. Spellbomb is only a good sideboard option if you can pay the black and draw a card off of it. Purify is only really useful against Snapcaster Mage and I guess Unburial Rites but it's not necessary. Solar Flare is a very good matchup for us and we don't need to be taking threats out of our deck for narrow reactive cards.
If I were to run a G/W Tempered Steel it would probably be something like this:
You want 4 Razorverge Thickets because coming into play untapped on the 4th turn is not overly relevant unless you have a Hero in hand while a hand with Township and Sunpetal Grove as your land can be back breaking to you since the Grove enters tapped and either messes up your first or second turn.
The creature base is pretty stock with all the usual suspects filling it out.
The Shrines are pretty nutty with Township so you want some of those maindeck. Maindeck O-rings because you would bring them in almost every match anyways.
Like I said though I really hate G/W Township Steel because it can't really use Inkmoth Nexus as a 4-of. 3 might be do-able but 4 inkmoths and 2 Township would just be greedy. Not to mention that this is basically just a much worse version of the G/W tokens deck so I would avoid this plan if possible.
I had considered the inkmoth nexus' but had trouble deciding proportion so i just gave it up XD.
Maybe its the local meta, but i found people hesitate to board wipe with solemn simulacrum on the field. I was also hesitant to put him in cause he does very little besides mind games. I guess i wanted a second opinion on that.
I see the downside of the Racthet bomb/ moonmist, but it would be a golden moment to do that to someone. again, looking for that voice of reason.
What kinda sideboard would you have?
I think i will take that advice of teh o-rings and shrines.
Wg Tempered Steel deck i made that has play tested against my friends rather well. I find that i tend to play 3 or 4 artifact creatures and hold onto the rest. I was hoping to take to the stnd FNM last night but somethings came up.
I was running one island to help with the blue required for Spellskite and Tezzerit's Gambit, but I felt it was a tad silly.
The sideboard worries me. With WRR picking up, the netdeckers in my area are starting to play it. So the Johnny in me was contemplating 2 Moonmist and 3 Ratchet Bomb as an answer.
you may want to consider wind zendikon as a way to cast superion (it also comes down turn 2 with haste if you play it on the right land which is decent, kinda like guide) , coupled with inkmoth nexus, you may need 2-3 more creatures that can produce mana to reliably get him out, even then you can't make it that reliable or perhaps just a way to tap or untap him..
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is legendary, so any thing that will copy it such as [cad]Phyrexian Metamorph[/card], will cause it to leave the field. allowing you to hopefully re-stabilize with your hero's and and anything that is still left.
O-ring and dispatches are a must. The dispatch will work if you happen to be running the CFB build with significant amount of non creature artifacts.
I'm not sold on surgical extraction. it doesn't seem like it would help accel to victory.
A card i was running to deal with legendary, was Phantasmal Image. Its really low mana cost makes it a surprise. Who cares if they target it, its copying a legendary or a titan, so i got my two mana use out of it at the very least.
The greatest Downside is only 8-10 blue mana sources(2-3 mox opal, 4 seachrome coast and 2-4 glacial fortress) It only happened a couple of times, over about 15 games, but I didn't have a blue source. If we were to alter out threats and put in a mana dork we'd turn the deck into a mid to late threat. At this time I don't think that is where we should be going though.
The shrine accumulates a counter each upkeep. So a t2 shrine will have 3 or 4 counters on it, if you happen to be too explosive, by turn 5.
Adn then you activate by tapping and paying three colorless mana.
Its an EXTREMELY unexpected play. I mentioned it to my EDH play group today and the scoffed (i said it with an extreme amount of sarcasm).
This FNM my lgs is running extended, should mana leak be included even though I will be using a much more aggressive build with the steel overseer's and the master of ethrium's?
Why did you choose think twice over Ponder or Tezzeret's Gambit?
It seems good, but I am not sure if its enough. I feel that maybe a combination with Surgical Extraction might work. Primarily because you won't know what hate they are playing until they play it. And surgical extraction will do a much better job of preventing them from replaying it. I also say combination because you will be able to LOOK through their deck and see what other hate they are playing.
Its for the activation of the gavony township.
I had considered the inkmoth nexus' but had trouble deciding proportion so i just gave it up XD.
Maybe its the local meta, but i found people hesitate to board wipe with solemn simulacrum on the field. I was also hesitant to put him in cause he does very little besides mind games. I guess i wanted a second opinion on that.
I see the downside of the Racthet bomb/ moonmist, but it would be a golden moment to do that to someone. again, looking for that voice of reason.
What kinda sideboard would you have?
I think i will take that advice of teh o-rings and shrines.
Thanks for the advice.
3 Memnite
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
3 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Hovermyr
2 Spellskite
Artifacts
3 Glint Hawk Idol
2 Mox Opal
4 Tempered Steel
Instants
3 Dispatch
Sorcery (7)
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
4 Travel Preparations
Basic Lands
9 Plains
1 forest
Lands
2 Contested War Zone
2 Gavony Township
2 Razorverge Thicket
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Celestial Purge
2 Timely reinforcements
3 Revoke Existence
2 Dismember
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Spellskite
Thoughts thus far-
The Solemn Simulacrum actually feel un-needed as they never seem able to die. But when playing Day of Judgement they are nice for the recovery. After playing at FNM with this I might change them for Hero of Bladehold as Travel Preparations will beef it.
I was running one island to help with the blue required for Spellskite and Tezzerit's Gambit, but I felt it was a tad silly.
The sideboard worries me. With WRR picking up, the netdeckers in my area are starting to play it. So the Johnny in me was contemplating 2 Moonmist and 3 Ratchet Bomb as an answer.
And i suppose if Solar Flare picks up in my meta, 3 Nihil Spellbomb and 3 Purify the Grave.
Also, I always have trouble deciding what to side board out for what.
Any thoughts are much appreciated.
that wind zendikon also make that land tap for two mana with the grand architect
why haven't i seen that.
Overall i do see why the frost titan is nice, adds more control and something of a target for removal.
How is having only two treasure mage's working for you?
3x Augury Owl
4x Grand Architect
1x Steel Hellkite
4x Thrummingbird
3x Treasure Mage
2x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Jace Beleren
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Venser, the Sojourner
3x Steel Sabotage
3x Glacial Fortress
1x Inkmoth Nexus
13x Island
4x Seachrome Coast
2x Tectonic Edge
2x Contagion Engine
3x Everflowing Chalice
1x Mindslaver
3x Sphere of the Suns
3x Tumble Magnet
1x Triskelion
3x Contagion Clasp
1x Platinum Emperion
3x Ratchet Bomb
3x Necropede
1x Spine of Ish Sah
I've playing around with the build. I'd prefer another Venser over the wallet sculptor.
Loving the Venser/Augury owl interaction.
When a lot of artifact hate is present, the 1/1 flyers have one me a few games.
Any ideas