MTG Salvation

You don't really need 3 Venser in a Venser deck, and you have plenty of cards he can exploit. What constitutes a "Venser Deck", anyway? If your whole plan is just maximizing a single card in your deck, and you're not playing a win combo, I think it's a poor plan.

I'd say a "Venser Deck" is just any good U/W deck that can make significant use of Venser's abilities. You have Titans, which are amazing on the -1 or +2. You have plenty of +2 targets. Are you less Venser simply because your entire deck isn't composed of Enter the Battlefield triggers? Is Valakut less Valakut for being comprised of things other than mountains?

Card advantage and mana are really important in control vs control...but active Jaces aren't so bad. Leak them where you can, but it's not over if one resolves. Venser can draw you cards too, so you can keep up. The important thing is that you just make sure the cards your opponent tries to kill you with don't stick around. Same goes for Karns and anything else that similarly ruins your day.

Venser emblems are more fun in doubles. Almost got triple-emblem the other night against u/b, but we timed out...I had 3 cloned Sun Titans too Still took the match 1-0 though

Yeah, I get that. I was honestly thinking it might be a better idea for them overall; I'd have won the fog match if I played Roils over Dismember (He had Luminarch Ascension), and have done no worse in any other matchup, because I never actually got a chance to use the card when I had it (I mean, there were targets, but it was just never worth it)...cept for one chance against twin.

Then it got dispelled.

Also...has anyone heard of twin players using Mutagenic Growth on Deceiver Exarch? I totally saw this guy do it to someone (He'll survive dismember/combust).

So last night went 3-1-1 at a local shop with the following list. Beat black vamps (2-0), green eldrazi (2-0) and u/b control (1-0-1), draw going to a silly (but also kinda good) fog deck (1-1-1) and the loss was to UR twin (0-2).



I felt like the twin games could have gone a little differently, especially post board, if I had kept mulling for better opening hands and simply had some luck on my draws. But, even so, I did go into the tournament feeling the matchup would be weak anyway, with my noticeable lack of instant removal. Still, I was hoping I wouldn't draw opening hands of 2 Sun Titans and a Venser, only to mull to get a Sun Titan and 1 dismember...and then draw nothing but land...but that's how it goes sometimes.

While the other decks were at times stressful to deal with, in my opinion both of the draws (fog and u/b) were largely in my favor (if I recall correctly I was ready to swing for lethal with four-ish Sun Titans with Golems if I had only one more turn, in both cases). I think right now, if my deck needs tweaking, I should tweak it towards combating twin first due to its strength and popularity.

The other games were all fun and exciting, too. And people kept turning heads whenever I pulled the Sun Titan + Phantasmal Image combo, which was pretty cool. It saved me a few times outright, especially vs Vamps, and in the end of u/b game 2 (the draw), it was the only actual aggressive move I made all game. The whole time I was barely hanging on, Venser basically playing hero with o-rings and eventually holding down fort with 2 emblems. He had enough loyalty for 3, actually, but I was desperate for cards, since this guy was rocking consecrated sphinx and jace and all that. It was a damn epic match...I was even knocked down to 1 life. Maze ended up saving me from my opponent's lone Solemn Simulacrum...lol...funny part was that late in the game he had no more basics to fetch. The main trouble in the match was simply Creeping Tar Pit...so glad I had my tec edges and seas for them.

Sadly I didn't make top 8, I think because I didn't actually pull enough real wins. But, there's always next week...

At any rate, I'd appreciate any comments, criticisms and all that jazz about my list, because I'd like to make it better. I'm honestly not so worried about aggro, since I've got the images and walls/oracle/splicer to help out, and a few days...I was thinking ditching Reinforcements in the sb for Into the Roil, for a better round 2 vs twin. Thoughts?

Actually, I believe Venser's ability has already resolved (and doesn't get exiled) if you do it right. The +2 ability is no longer on the stack; the O-Ring just comes back at the next end step per Venser, which happens to be your opponent's.

LordZosh, I think a few people in the thread dedicated to Venser were discussing this a few pages back...not sure where...you'll have to look around. But some people have given it a shot, I think with some success. I think most folks like to use it with a Tezzeret build since he can find it easier. And, there's another one over here in this other subforum...they may have posted some stuff there too.

Quote from Crownclown

Um I think he is referring to Ghost's. Or maybe Monster hunters etc.

I was thinking more along the lines of "Victims".

But sure, we can say "Ghosts" and skip the bad part.

27th out of 250 sounds pretty awesome. Too bad about not getting to 10th or higher; maybe next one?

You said for the Tezz matchup you wish you had your Nature's Claims...if you could go back and change your list at all, would you? I'm actually lacking a bit of artifact hate in my own deck and I'm curious if I should reconsider that...

With only 6 mountains, I would much sooner run Elspeth Tirel than Koth. She can gain you life, or generate tokens. Or blow up the field.

Yeah, a manland still can't be hit by stuff that says non-land, pretty sure, because there's always that clause "it's still a land".

I think it's always been agreed that permission has always been potentially the strongest, but could be toughest to run properly (as I've seen it, anyway).

Norn's Annex is a White Artifact that costs phyrexian mana, if you're keen on paying life for things. I hear making people do things before they can attack you is good. And hey, it's something Exarch Twin has to Roil before they can actually win!

If you DO wanna mainboard Timely Reinforcements, clearly you need to use Honor of the Pure and Elspeth Tirel.

You can also use Phyrexian Metamorph to clone thingalings (MOAR ANNEX), and continue to make yourself lose life.

Elspeth just pumps soldiers. Use Noxious Revival to get her back, and make more soldiers!!!!111one.

I would be delighted to see this made into an actual deck.

Ditch the Blue. Just go Monowhite. DO IT.

You mean hilarious cards.

I think Simulacrum is pretty cool. I might run him as a 2-of; the problem is that I don't think I'll want to tap out turn 4 against most decks, these days, for an additional basic land (and potentially a draw)...because I might just lose right there. I've been thinking of running Karn as a one-of; in which case I think Simulacrum will be a good idea since I don't plan to ramp via Birds of Paradise (just doing U/W).

Edit: I think there might be a cute trick with the Simulacrum and Phantasmal Image and Venser; if you make an Image copy Simulacrum, use Venser's +2 on the Image, you kill it an draw a card, don't you.

Then you can play your Sun Titan.

Man, there are so many cards I want to add to my deck just because I think it would be hilarious making my opponents guess at what the hell I'd do next. I also want to find an actual situation where I can use my Sundial to benefit from First Strike damage with Blade Splicers (pretty sure you can end the turn after you deal your First Strike damage, and before regular damage is dealt).

Dignitary is a False Peace attached to a Femeref Scouts. Which, as it turns out, pretty good in limited.

But, this combo requires Venser to be on the table. As I see it, Venser should be making the good cards in your deck better, not the terrible cards in your deck into sometimes-playable combos. It's just not reliable enough, in my opinion.

Quote from Drawmeomg

That's kinda my point. If they wanted this effect to be competitive they'd push it power-wise.

I wouldn't want to see that happen - I think the card's perfect as is - just commenting on what it'd take to push it competitively.

My point is that by making that one card that competitive, you'd be making an entire archetype competitive with what other material already exists in the format. I just mean, that's a little nutty IMO. Really I think this guy would be great at anything less than 6 cost, and still has good potential.