MTG Salvation

Being entirely inexperienced in competitions above FNM-level stuff, I can't say I know what it's like to play what might be called "high-end" opponents.

That said, I don't really see how anything could be all that different from where I play, since I think a good number of the people I see around have 1800+ ratings, play well-made decks, and are fairly smart.

I wouldn't expect the Caw matchup would be that unfavorable, but I can't refute another person's experiences, and he's referring to a decklist I haven't seen.

Against Twin I've just been sideboarding out Venser and Titans; I'm sure we all know high cost spells are a little tough to play against them. Luminarch Ascension seemingly fits the spot well as a Win-condition. Or does it make my deck no longer "Venser" if I don't use him in a single matchup?

Personally I think the deck should work regardless of getting Venser; it's just he puts us over a certain threshold when we play him. I never would expect any deck to always play the same way against every single matchup, and I feel like most U/W lists can be made pretty adaptable.

Yeah, Tumble Magnet worked wonders against Pod. Even if I couldn't remove it, Magnet was right on it every upkeep. You're totally right about CA too; the other guy was actually kinda depressed at me having close to a full hand the whole time, and maintaining good board position.

That's a good point about Gideon; I guess adding in number 2 would really make a huge difference, and that Maze slot could be for another Colonnade.

Thanks!

Yeah, Gideon is absolutely a beast. I think primarily I've been held back simply because he's been expensive to grab; but ideally we should go for two. He's cheaper now than ever before, though, so I think I'll get number two soon.

I'm not sure how I feel about losing the Maze. I know many people don't run it, but TBH I think it's exceptionally useful. Not so great vs Titans, but you can kill tokens (i.e. Wurmcoil Engine, Blade Splicer), and also hold back damage from bigger creatures who would kill your Colonnades or Gideon, etc. You're also dealing with unblockable creatures or those that have protection vs your creatures and removal and thus evade you anyhow. I have honestly never been dissatisfied to draw it, and I practically always get to use it to my advantage when I have it.

Top 8'd out of 32 last night at a local store with the following list. Which, I think is pretty neat, since this would be my fourth night actually playing competitively, ever.



I went 3-1-1, beating Puresteel 2-0, Valakut 2-0, Bant Pod 2-0, losing to Cawblade 0-2, and drawing with b/r Vamps 1-1-1.

The deck was really fun to play, but I do have to make a few changes, I think. I was never disappointed to see any spell or creature, except when I was absolutely mana-screwed. I had to mull both Caw games (5 and then 6), and ended up drawing no lands either game. The Caw player made a friendly suggestion of taking my land count to 26 (he admitted he ran 27).

Truth is, I've been wanting to do that, but I simply don't have more Colonnades; and those would be the first things I'd add. Run 4 if you got 'em, was the lesson I learned.

I got eliminated the first top 8 round against Valakut, answering everything the first game fine but simply running out of threats (He had to waste triggers simply killing Venser, Gideon, Titans and Colonnades; in the end we top-decked for maybe 6 turns and finally he triggered enough to kill me. He was at 6 life). More Colonnades would have probably gotten me there. I lost second game simply because yet again, mana screw. I couldn't keep up at all.

All the games were really interesting, with some fairly ridiculous plays on all sides. I can give a detailed recounting when I have more time; just thought I'd tell about some success I've had with the deck, to encourage you guys to keep at Venser.

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Edit: So, a more thorough rundown...

Round 1 was vs Puresteel, and it was a little silly. I have a decent hand with counterspells in hand; I just basically stopped his plays turn by turn, gaining card advantage while it went on. Eventually he got an Inkmoth Nexus down, but Tec edges shut down that plan. Admittedly I had to make some rather ridiculous plays, even at one point O-Ringing a Sylvok Lifestaff, simply because before I could tec-edge the Nexus he was able to equip it and would add some significant poison damage on (and honestly there would have been little I could have done apart from get those Tec Edges).

I managed to stall out to the late-game, where my Colonnades, Sun Titans and Gideon just smashed through.

Game 2 was practically an encore; although he was a bit unlucky with his opening hand and came short a few lands. He did get a Day of Judgment to clear my field once (I was cloning a number of things like Sea Gate Oracle to block his Sword-Wielding germ-tokens); but on the following turn I played a Sun Titan and recurred practically everything...much to his dismay.

Round 2 was vs Valakut. Although Game 1 my hand could have been better, I used everything to my advantage, always keeping counter mana open even when I didn't have leaks; my opponent respected the play and didn't try to rush through. Dismembering his Oracle played greatly to my advantage, and my second Dismember took out an Avenger of Zendikar before he could start pumping the tokens. I tried playing Gideon and Venser, but both got Beast Within'd. This proved his undoing anyhow, though, as the damage from beast tokens added up before he could combo out.

Game 2 was a little slow for both of us, as we both seemed to keep drawing lands. I sided in the obvious cards, but also my fourth Phantasmal Image, as I like cloning Primeval Titans to fetch my Tec Edges.

I did manage to keep him fearful of counterspells, and it got far enough into the game where I was able to hit him with Colonnades for a few successive turns. Eventually I controlled the board-state with several Sun Titans and Tec Edges; seeing I could destroy his Valakuts and then get back the Edges to destroy more Valakuts...and with no real plays...he gave up here.

Round 3 was against Caw, and like I said I had to mulligan a lot, and had no luck with draws. I figure this would have been a really tough match anyhow, but I barely got to do anything...so I still don't really know how well the matchup is. I was able to O-Ring his swords and whatnot game 1, but when I finally had the mana for my important cards, they just got mana leaked/spell pierced/etc. Game 2 was practically the same thing but with even poorer draws.

Round 4 was Bant Pod, and these were really fun and long matches. I didn't ever feel all that intimidated by what his deck was throwing at me; just being sure to take out the pod did more than enough. We did both get off to slow starts game 1, but I just countered his spells, o-ringed his pod and other important things. When I got to Venser's Ultimate, he didn't feel like continuing the match further.

Game 2 was quite silly, as there was at one point 6 Wurmcoil Engines on the field. He played one, then cloned it with Phantasmal Image. Then I played a Phantasmal Image to get one, and then he did another, and then I did another, and then he got a Phyrexian Metamorph. Through use of Colonnades, Mystifying Maze, Tumble Magnet and my clones, I was able to kill enough of them such that a Day of Judgment left us both with practically nothing on the field. From there, we both slowly built back up, and I eventually got Venser and Titans online. After getting him down to 1 life via Venser's -1 ability, I demonstrated that unless he could ruin my position or kill me in a turn, I'd just do it again for the win. He scooped there.

Round 5 was b/r Vamps, and I was not confident going into this match, as I honestly don't know half the cards that go in the deck. He got some early pressure going, but my walls and images were able to hold the fort a while. I lost game one when he managed to lightning bolt me when I was at 2 life - it was rather close, because I just got 3 Sun Titans via recurring images.

Game 2 I sided in my spellskites, timely reinforcements and extra day of judgment, and it really gave him a hard time. I was able to protect myself well and I eventually overcame him after riding out the storm.

Game 3 I could have won, although a misplay cost me the outright victory. Since the previous games were so long, we were short on time. Thankfully, I had a strong advantage because he was caught on very few lands, and I was able to tec-edge many of his Lavaclaw Reaches - he was impressed particularly with the timing in which I killed them; in some cases I'd wait for him to swing, pump it, and then I'd tec-edge (I guess he forgot I had it?), and other times I'd do it on my turn if I felt he was reliant on the mana.

He brought in a Hero of Oxid Ridge, who is a total beast (and kinda gets around Timely Reinforcement tokens and walls). Day of Judgment served me well here, since I actually didn't have any creatures to lose.

Reinforcements, I found, was very useful even if you're just getting the tokens. I had the life advantage for much of the 3rd game, as his Vampire Lacerators were bleeding him out and my walls just kept holding him back. Since I got the feeling he could make a pretty brutal lifeswing at any time, I figured it'd be best I just get the tokens purely for offense; which in the end proved very useful. Phantasmal Image also worked well as a Bloodghast, which gave me just enough damage capability to kill him.

Unfortunately because I failed with a Mana Leak (I missed an open land, he had 3 available), I wasted a card on something that would have taken out a different important spell which ended up taking away my shot at victory (and thus we drew). Still, I was very satisfied to make it into top 8.

Into the top 8, I played another Valakut. He played Wurmcoil Engine mainboard, which I thought was pretty cool. In game 2, with few plays, I tried cloning it to gain myself a life advantage and make his combo harder to finish me; but he managed to deal with it swiftly, beast-within-ing it without giving me a token (the spell is countered because the Image's sacrifice ability goes on the stack on top of the spell). I did get the Wurmcoil Tokens, but they were quickly killed. The match might have gone better if I didn't have to mulligan, and draw into more-or-less nothing. I didn't see a single sideboard card either; I was really curious to see how well Luminarch Ascension would have done against him.

Game 1 was a long, drawn-out affair, though, and as I said I got him down to 6 life. He spent a lot of triggers keeping himself alive; had I merely drawn one more Colonnade I'd have won it (and I did get up to about 15 or so lands, I think).

So yeah, bad hands and lack of Colonnades. Hopefully if I fix this land issue and get some better luck, next week will give me even better results.

Quote from Yanni

that was my point.

You note it's close enough, acknowledge this might have been the end result of the future-sight card, yet you want more of the Transfigure mechanic in an ISD-standard anyway?

Quote from Yanni

It would be an awesome mechanic for ISD.
Didn't birthing Pod basically do this, though? just tack on +1 to the mana cost, and it's Pod.

Perhaps Pod was the end result of the original idea?

I think I'd already be running Squadron hawks, and SB in my Phantasmal Images, so I can just have MORE Squadron Hawks than the other guy.

Exclusion Ritual is pretty cool. I might try to squeeze it into the SB for control matchups if I weren't desperate for all the other cards I have right now. At the moment, though, I'm quite satisfied with O-Rings and Day of Judgment as my sorcery-speed removal. For 6 mana I'd just rather throw down a Sun Titan or something else potentially winning me the game right there; if I don't have Venser, the Ritual might not do the trick.

Quote from 42Osiris

Also board sweepers (DoJ) eat venser decks up.

Unless you killed their Phantasmal Images, and then they drop their Sun Titan (and with that, recur their Phantasmal Images into Sun Titans).

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Anyway Venser is clearly on the rise because people like O-Ring and other such cards, and he's also pretty good with Bantpod decks. His second ability actually isn't useless, but it has to be set up properly; you typically leave yourself very vulnerable since your creatures are tapped, and he's clearly not blinking a Blade Splicer or such to leave you with a solid blocker to prevent a counter-attack. Stonehorn Dignitary, although not amazing, could actually serve you here.

Or if you don't want to bother with that part, use Venser's second ability for a kill-shot after you made four Sun Titans, after some guy thought using Day of Judgment against you was a good idea.

I predict Venser isn't probably going to rise much higher than he is right now; might even go back down a bit. While he's a blast to play, people don't like having to build around a Planeswalker; they want the Planeswalker to have an immediate impact on the game they wanted to build. I think it's more likely that pros will construct decks that will sooner not use Venser's abilities than include them.

Tumble Magnet is still good. It's basically colorless removal, and you can target at instant-speed. You stop Titan triggers, and you could potentially clear the way for your attackers. You could even tap a Birthing Pod, say on your opponent's upkeep (the beauty is that it's a sorcery-speed ability)!

I think people have been giving it less love because they simply don't have enough room what with the Oblivion Rings and the Dismembers...I think it's still a solid Venser card since he can reset it. The trouble is that if you can't reset it, and you can't find more answers, you might have wished you had a different card in its spot.

If you want to go for it, I would try something to the effect of 2 MB along with perhaps 3 Oblivion Rings and 2 Dismembers, and that might make for a solid removal package. Just be sure you're not skimping on other aspects of your deck.

Here's what you do:

Hit them.

Stop Birthing Pod from being played, or get rid of it if it comes down.

Don't let Venser hit the table, because your lands will get rocked with Acidic Slime.

And then Hit Them some more.

Draw cards, hit them, leave mana open.

What I think would be neat is doing a Bant version, using all the Scars-block dual-lands and Birds of Paradise, Green Sun's Zenith and just the better two of all the splicers; Vital Splicer and Blade Splicer. Zenith would be to fetch Vital Splicer (or Bird?), you might not MB 4 but desperate because I'm suggesting it as a combo piece.

And, not run any actual artifacts MB, apart from 2 Blightsteel Colossus, and run the Shape Anew combo (with Inkmoth Nexus to support it - they become artifacts).

If the combo can't work against your opponent, and you need to go full aggro, side out the Blightsteel and Shape Anew, and bring in some aggro support, maybe even swords. Heck, you might take out the combo anyway, if you expect your opponent to side in all their single-permanent and spell hate.

But, that idea would probably only work in magical christmasland...sigh

What do you guys think of Luminarch Ascension, specifically against Twin? With my current list, I honestly feel confident against just about any deck I've seen in my current meta, ranging from Goblins and Tempered Steel, to U/B control to Valakut...except dedicated Twin. I'm fine against RUG twin and anything that doesn't maximize its ability to get the combo out, essentially; but all-in UR that plays control and eventually combos with like 5 counterspells in hand...after maybe 12 turns of us just both drawing and passing...(yeah I'm not gonna tap out for a Sun Titan) it's just too much.

I'm thinking this card also applies to some Valakut decks, if you get it early enough (they'll want to ramp), control matchups, perhaps Bantpod...

I know Twin can Roil it, but I feel it's another win-con for us. Right now, I basically side out all my Vensers and Sun-Titans and go for Blade-Splicer beats with any control spells in my SB (I bring in Flashfreeze, Celestial Purge for the enchantment, Mental Misstep for Dispel), but it's really not a reliable gameplan. Technically I have enough answers in my deck, but a straight-up UR Twin deck will always find the cards it needs better than me.

I'm looking for answers, and I can't accept Twin as a "bad matchup". Any thoughts are appreciated.

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Yeah, people really like Elspeth in the Aggro matchup. They also like the m12 card Timely Reinforcements, which is practically a one-shot of her smaller abilities, which is pretty handy itself; personally I favor this card since I feel that the 5 mana for Elspeth herself is a little too much to get to. But, it seems your defensive creature package can hold down the fort until you get there, so perhaps she tops off the list well.

It's cool you went the whole thing undefeated...although I'm curious if you played against any Valakut Titan decks, yourself. I don't see any Tectonic Edges in your landbase, and your Spreading Seas are fully sideboarded. And, with your counterspells being a little costly (giving them an opportunity to ramp), it looks like it might be a tough matchup for you.

Splinter Twin, in my opinion, also looks pretty tough for your list. Can I ask what decks apart from goblins you faced off against?

Quote from Ashinto

Just got back into magic after a few years off. I spent the last month and half or so acquiring pieces and being indecisive over what deck to play. Finally made it out to FNM tonight and it took me to the last minute to decide to play UW Venser over Valakut Titan, and I'm glad I did... won the whole(albeit small) thing undefeated. Here's the list I brought:

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands 7 Plains 7 Island 4 Seachrome Coast 2 Celestial Colonnade 4 Glacial Fortress Creatures 3 Sea Gate Oracle 4 Solemn Simulacrum 2 Stonehorn Dignitary 4 Wall of Omens	Planeswalkers 3 Gideon Jura 2 Elspeth Tirel 3 Venser the Sojourner Spells 4 Oblivion Ring 4 Preordain 1 Spine of Ish Sah 3 Stoic Rebuttal 3 Sundial of the Infinite	Sideboard 2 Day of Judgement 3 Baneslayer Angel 4 Spreading Seas 1 Stoic Rebuttal 3 Spell Pierce 2 Negate

The list definitely needs to be tweaked, but I really enjoyed it (though there were some grumbles about the deck's glacier like pace).

I think the Sundial/O-Ring combo is pretty win-more. In practice, I didn't need it. The Stonehorn Dignitary generally bought me enough time to get Venser's emblem, which does the trick just fine. DOJ in the sideboard was me guessing that I would face mostly control/combo, but it was all aggro, so I will probably move them back into the main. also, Baneslayer kinda sucked. The only time I broguht her inw as against Goblins, figuring the lifelink would be good, and she got Combusted... Frost Titan will be my man in future I think. Elspeth Tirel was a kind of random last minute addition, since i got the two in a trade earlier today, but she actually came in really handy. I never would have beaten Goblins without her life gain and reset button. Also, I couldn't imagine playing this deck without SGOs, but then I dont have any Jaces, so I haven't tried using them, but that 1/3 body is just so nice to have.

Quote from brasswire

No, there is no association between the set codenames and anything in the actual sets. They're just common three word associations: Live, Long, Prosper. Bacon, Lettuce, Tomato. Rock, Paper, Scissors. They having nothing whatsoever to do with the contents of the card sets.

You'll be eating your words (and perhaps more) when BLT turns out to be an Awesome Deli Adventure Plane.

Is the other one Huey Duey and Louie? If not, it should be.

Anyway, 'Friends, Romans and Countrymen' is from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, the speech that Antony gives at Caesar's funeral, and he basically gets the people to turn on Caesar's conspirators. I'm wondering if there might be strife among established Planeswalkers - possibly those who were previously allies - in this block.