MTG Salvation

I had hoped the thread would get back on track over night. Although there were a few valiant efforts to get back on track and on topic, this thread has gone every which way. Locking this thread to give people time to cool down.

Locking thread.

I'm also going to take this opportunity to restate: If you feel someone is posting something against the rules, either flaming, trolling, spam, or anything else - Please just report the post and move on.

Quote from JaceBluesMaster »

At 40 bucks, only one of them is cheaper than simply buying the existing cards. I think this product would have been a huge hit at 30 bucks a pop.

Well have I got good news for you... If you buy ALL of them, they ARE at 30 a pop!

Jokes aside, I think this product was mostly done well... In fact, if anything, it should maybe be more expensive. Right now, people who simply want a playable set of cards can buy them elsewhere, cheaper, so this drop isn't undercutting the general secondary market - while still being appealing to collectors and investors - especially the latter since this drop actually IS a giant cut on current prices! Currently, pricing out each of these cards on TCG player non-foil is $165. Selecting this same cart with foil versions of the cards yields an impressive cart of about $450. That's pretty impressive.

Keep in mind the current pricing on these cards for the comparison are comparing to regular, non-foil versions of these cards. Instead, these versions are foil, and alternate art promos. Now, everyone has their preference when it comes to foils or art, but typically these make the item have more of a premium price, rather than less.

Right now, purchasing the entire drop for $150 actually comes out positive on value for the purchaser, compared to non-premium versions of the cards - that's pretty insane. It doesn't even hold a candle to current premium copies. And this doesn't account for whether or not they decide to add any special gifts, like the stained glass planeswalkers. This drop is just bonkers. It's good enough that you could purchase the whole set and not feel bad, and probably even flip it, but not so crazy that everyone feels obligated to purchase it or miss out on a crazy deal. - I'm personally not a huge fan of the aesthetic, so I'll probably forgo this one, though I at least have a few days to consider it.

Of course, that will depend on what the resulting supply ends up being. Seeing as how one item appears to already be out of pre-printed stock (likely the Red bundle, as it has the highest current value), it seems the sales are going well, so supply may be somewhat higher than expected long term.

Quote from Ryperior74 »

The 465 thing

Sorry man that’s not gonna be the value of all of these

Reaper kings are $68 in foil and sliver over lords are $87 in foil

But the bad news

Secret lair sliver overlords are only $20 and the non foils are 28$

And secret lair reaper kings are 10$ While non foils are $11

Of course this isn't going to be the price of these long term - but the comparison remains apt. In terms of value, this drop is coming close to the standard printing, for something that is considered more premium in nature, and will have collector value further on. This does mean that close to release, there will certainly be a greater supply, and prices should (hopefully) remain lower. However, if you were looking for a more 'premium' version of these cards - perhaps for foiling out a deck - this is by far a better deal currently than trying to actually get OG foils.

The reaper king and sliver overlord comparison is also VERY misleading. Those are some old sets, that have a much lower print run. You're comparing a print run that just happened, to printings that are 16 years old and 11 years old.

A better comparison might be the snow covered lands, which have been released more recently. Regular Ice-age snow forests are a bit over $1. Full art snow lands are .50. Foil coldsnap and foil full-arts are around $7. The secret lair Snow-forest are $14. Even that is misleading though, as there are now several sets worth of snow-lands in the wild, giving ample supply, so the only thing propping up the Secret Lair prices is not people seeking usability, but only people seeking uniqueness and scarcity. Contrastingly, this drop is aimed at both. (The Kaleidoscope set, in comparison was more for usability, as those cards had been out of print for a considerable time).

For a lair that people criticized as having one of the lowest values compared to current card prices, that one is now sitting pretty nice as an investment.

Some people like the bling.

Quote from donatelo_leonardo_unmerged276 »

Quote from bobthefunny »

Hi Mirrorman95,

Sorry for the delay in updates - I thought at first I could fix this quickly, but it's taking a bit longer than I expected. Just wanted to give you an update that we ARE looking at this, and not leaving you in the dark.

I've had the same exact problem as mirrorman. I tried logging in to my old account and haven't had any luck. Even contacted twitch and they said that I needed to contact someone from MTGS. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

This should be resolved now.

I apologize for not getting to this sooner - I have alerts on the inbox forum, but that doesn't trigger on thread replies, so this didn't notify me.

If future people find this thread, send me a PM, or drop a note on my inbox thread so I get replies - thanks!

You have asked me about my favorite topic.

When ramping in non-green colors, don't be afraid to get creative, and look for synergies between your ramp effects. Don't feel limited to cards that just say 'ramp' - these colors excel in bounce, flicker, and reanimation, all of which can be used to ramp. One of my favorite ways to ramp in Black for example is Undying Evil on my Burnished Hart or Solemn Silmulacrum when it's about to die.

One of the best non-green ramp cards ever printed is Rings of Brighthearth - This turns every fetchland into a rampant growth as well. It also doubles up your Burnished Hart, and also Wayfarer's Bauble. Before I go too far into it, here's just a dump of cards for you to look at:

I mentioned when some cards could get non-land ramp cards, but didn't include other 'ramp' cards that are explicitly non ramp (Smothering Tithe) since you specifically asked about lands.

COLORLESS:
1 - Wayfarer's Bauble - A rampant growth for any deck. Synergies well with artifact recursion.
2 - Sword of the Animist - Gets lands.
3 - Burnished Hart - A bigger sakura tribe elder for any deck.
3 - Crucible of Worlds - Doesn't ramp on its own, but ensures consistent land drops with fetch lands.
3 - Rings of Brighthearth - Ramps with fetch lands, turbos other ramp options. Can go infinite with Deserted Temple
3 - Sword of Light and Shadow - return your rampy dudes.
4 - Solemn Simulacrum - An all around acceptable pick, though not great in any specific area. Gets better with more synergy.
2 - Thaumatic Compass - Gets lands, IS LAND!
2 - Treasure Map - Becomes a land, and gives a ritual effect as well (or you could draw cards, that's ok too.)
2 - Dowsing Dagger - Give one person plants, hit someone else.
4 - Golden Guardian - Fight something of yours prior to a wrath effect for free flippy.
4 - Conqueror's Galleon - It's a land that does everything.
6 - Oblivion Sower - Works best with other exile effects, but still works.
---
4 - Prototype Portal - I have imprinted an artifact land before.
5 - Mirrorworks - I have copied artifact lands.

BLACK
1 - Undying Evil - Cast on Burnished Hart (or other rampy mcdude)
1 - Supernatural Stamina - Undying Evil #2
1 - Kaya's Ghost Form - Undying Evil #3
1 - Unearth - Burnished hart...
2 - Dance of the Dead - aim at that green player. Or a robot.
2 - Animate Dead - aim at that green player. Or a robot.
4 - Liliana of the Dark Realms - Not ramp, but keeps up swamp counts.

BLUE
2 - Search for Azcanta - It's eventually a rampant growth.
2 - Phantasmal Image - Copy a robot.
2 - Dance of Many - Copy a robot.
2 - Copy Artifact - Copy a robot.
2 - Twincast - hello mr. Green player.
2 - Narset's Reversal - Hello mr. Green player.
3 - Trinket Mage - Gets Wayfarer's Bauble, Sol Ring, Skullclamp, etc.
3 - Tribute Mage - Gets Sword of the Animist. Mana rocks, etc.
3 - Trophy Mage - Gets Burnished Hart, Sword of Light and Shadow, Crucible of Worlds, Rings of Brighthearth, Mana rocks, etc.
5 - Tezzeret the Seeker - -0: get artifact land. -1 get sol ring. -3 get Rings, then -0, get 2 lands. etc.

WHITE - second best 'ramp' color.
1 - Legion's Landing - it's a 1 cost land.
2 - Relic Seeker - Gets Sword of the Animist. (or skullclamp)
2 - Stoneforge Mystic - Gets Sword of the Animist. (or skullclamp)
2 - Knight of the White Orchid - If you're behind, you ramp. Gets non-basics.
2 - Oath of Lieges - Makes everyone catch up to the ramp player. Rather good anti-ramp tech, actually.
2 - Angelic Renewal - Combo with Burnished Hart, or even Solemn Simulacrum, etc. Still has natural use outside of that.
3 - Boreas Charger - Again. Gets non-basics.
3 - Gift of Immortality - Put it on a Burnished Hart. Smile.
4 - Kor Cartographer - Ramps. Gets non-basics.
4 - Restoration Angel - Flicker the sad robot.
6 - Sun Titan - Ramps with Fetchlands.
7 - Emeria Shepherd - Combo's with Burnished Hart to pull lots of lands out. Can chain with other things as well, such as Sun Titan.
1 - Land Tax - doesn't ramp on its own, but ensures land drops.
4 - Endless Horizons - doesn't ramp on its own, but ensures land drops. Don't have to go crazy on it either. Just pull out 5 basic plains, and no one cares enough to kill it, and you get 5 free cards.


LANDS

• Myriad Landscape - it ramps.
• Terrain Generator - gets extra lands from draws into play. Each investment pays off in future turns.
• Rav bounce lands - These don't 'ramp' per se, but ensure you hit a land drop that you might otherwise have missed, by giving you a virtual 'land' in hand.
• Thawing Glaciers - Doesn't 'ramp' per se (on its own), but ensures you hit land drops. Ramps with Deserted Temple or Rings of Brighthearth.
• Deserted Temple - Ramps with Glaciers, goes infinite with Rings + large mana land (Coffers).

I'm sure Ill think of more later. I have used each of these cards, for the sake of ramping, in at least one deck at some point or another.

Quote from Arcesious »

I'm not sure where else to ask this but I've noticed this forum has really slowed down, threads go for a long time without posts, new threads are pretty rare, I figure EDH isn't by any means losing popularity as a format - where's all the discussion gone? Is there some new forum everyone's flocking to? If so, I'd appreciate if someone could point me in that direction. Would like to see what sorts of new things people are making, get ideas. There's very little of anything new on here lately.

A lot of the old regulars have moved over to MTGNexus, while MTGSalvation still has some, and also gets the majority of the google crowd. Some users are on both.

There's a bit of an upheaval in the Commander forums and discussion space right now, as the official forums on MTGCommander.net have also been shut down as of a while. This is on top of a trend of the last few years of people moving discussion to reddit, deckbuilder sites like tappedout, as well as FB groups, and of course Discord.

That's all led to a fragmentation of sorts of discussion, and several of those other mediums are certainly better for certain types of discussions, I feel that the forums still hold an advantage over a number of those mediums for certain types of discussion, as most of those can't really hold persistent threads, or ongoing long-term discussions.

Quote from Stoogeslap »

Bob, is Wednesday or Thursday a safe guess for when you will be sending out?

Sending on Thursday.

During the First Strike damage step, your creature will assign 1 damage to the blocking 1/1, and 2 damage to the defending player (due to trample). The damage will then be dealt, and the token will die. Quietus spike will trigger, and then the player will lose half their life. Once all triggers are resolved, and both players pass priority with no abilities/spells on the stack, the game will proceed to the next Step in the Combat phase: Regular damage step.

At this point, all 5 creatures are eligible to deal damage, and as there are no remaining blockers in front of anything, all 15 damage will be assigned to the defending player and then dealt. Should the player somehow still be alive, Quietus spike will again trigger on combat damage being dealt, and halve the defending player's life again.

===

If other creatures also have first strike, they would deal their damage in the First Strike step. Unless they also have double strike, they will then be inelligible to deal damage in the regular step.

It would go: [First Strike + Double Strike creatures damage] => Trigger Quietus spike, lose half life => [Regular + Double Strike damage] => Trigger Quietus spike, lose half life.


Rules in question:

506.1. The combat phase has five steps, which proceed in order: beginning of combat, declare attackers, declare blockers, combat damage, and end of combat. The declare blockers and combat damage steps are skipped if no creatures are declared as attackers or put onto the battlefield attacking (see rule 508.8). There are two combat damage steps if any attacking or blocking creature has first strike (see rule 702.7) or double strike (see rule 702.4).

510.4. If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike (see rule 702.7) or double strike (see rule 702.4) as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. The only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that had neither first strike nor double strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that currently have double strike. After that step, the phase proceeds to the end of combat step.

603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.

603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority. See rule 117, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.

I sometimes like to build things counter to regular expectations. Also, any Commander can be a Voltron Commander.

I mean, if you get down to it, you could make essentially a venn diagram of all the colors, and see how their overlaps would show what the strengths of the colors would be.

Building the deck first is not always a bad idea. my Trostani deck only picked Trostani as the commander after about 2/3 of the deck was built. It was built as a lands-matter deck to be centered around Glacial Chasm. As I started building the deck, there was a lot of ramp and playing extra lands, so I wanted landfall triggers - most landfall makes creature tokens - And then entered Trostani - Worked well with tokens, and would give me the life needed to get the time to find the chasm, and to pay for the upkeep.

If you wanted pure expectations on colors, here we go: