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Apr 9, 2021bobthefunny posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previewsThread locked pending further reviewPosted in: The Rumor Mill
Apr 5, 2021bobthefunny posted a message on IN THIS THREAD I MAKE/POST VIDEO ABOUT EVERY TRIBE IN COMMANDERLooking forward to hearing about Spiritmonger.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
Feb 6, 2021This is so far off the rails from discussing Magic at this point; I'm shutting this down.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
It's Black History Month, people... Making a product themed to that is not pandering, nor political. It's literally the theme of the month, and a Nationally recognized cultural event.
I am going to take this moment to reiterate that MTGS stands behind inclusion initiatives, and increased diversity in Magic, these forums, and in life in general. Statements made against inclusion or diversity hold no place here.
I am also going to reiterate that MTGS is not a place to argue about politics or social issues. Period.
Feb 4, 2021Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
Yes, if race were factored in it is racist. That is why outside of the context of a Mafia game, where the term 'lynch' would be difficult to justify without a racial overtone/impact, and would be disallowed. The very argument you make can be used in favor on allowing the term, as the gameplay usage divests it of a racial connotation in that context.
Your attribution of a stance to the site is likewise incorrect. You are falsely attributing an extreme stance to the site to argue against, and that is incorrect, and also the literal definition of a straw man argument.
We have also received no indication that this issue is as prevalent as you make it out to be. So far it does seem that other users are able to identify that the context of the game term is separate from racial connotations.
For reference, this debate here, seems to agree with this overall sentiment:
In addition, even wikipedia does not refer to lynching as a racially charged word. While it explicitly and up front states that lynching of African Americans was common and prevalent, it also shows that lynching has connotations and prevalence across the entire world:
That said, wikipedia DID however also tag lynching as part of their series on discrimination, which does show the word to be racially charged.
I will look into this.
This is something to look into. I will admit that we have not discussed what the ideal timeline would be within the staff, and this does seem to be an important piece of information in order to determine what the timeline would look like.
There will always be individuals who, for one reason or another, are resistant to change. Ideally, once the general Mafia group has accepted and transitioned on, we would start to officially send reminders and warnings, and eventually infractions to stop using the term. The mod staff will discuss what an ideal timeline should be.
What, precisely, is there to gain? What I see is an action that will have no discernable impact, short of being a position of spite on the way out the door.
When/(if) the Mafia community leaves, I would personally prefer to simply move on from it, and archive the forums. With the Mafia forum gone, this resolves the issue, as there would no longer be a context for the use of the word 'lynch,' and we would be able to unilaterally make it unacceptable. Should users wish to reopen a Mafia forum in the future then, we would be able to do so with a fresh start, and caveat the term as unacceptable from the very beginning. This seems a much more practical solution.
You can bet that the vast vast majority have no ill intentions what so ever, so the words themselves dont hurt anybody and they are also have no means to hurt anybody , and frankly, the vast majority of people wont care at all if they read "lynch" or any other words, they accept its a game with its own rules and flavor.
Anybody can feel offended by basically anything, its absolutely impossible to create a space in which everyone is welcome to the fullest extend and anybody is protected by being offended ... thats not a possible end scenario ... the only thing that is possible, is to create a space that fits your very own personal guidelines of what you want to accept and what you dont want to accept.
I need to address a few things here:
- Just because a person or group of people do NOT find something offensive, does not mean that it is not offensive.
- 'Lynch' is a term with racial connotations within the United States.
- People are still threatened with lynching in the United States, and these acts ARE hate crimes, and ARE racially charge. Though ultimately found to be a case of misunderstanding, the NASCAR incident this past year shows that a noose IS problematic, that intentionally putting a noose IS a hatecrime, and also showed the support of many people coming together who realized this.
- Words absolutely CAN hurt people.
- There is a line that needs to be drawn, and generally speaking that line would get drawn between where an individual gets offended, and where something is an recognized offence to a larger group of people as a whole.
I suggest you look over the history of lynching to better understand FB's position and stance:
Furthermore, as stated above even Wikipedia includes their article on lynching as part of their series on discrimination. See the right hand bar. This further shows that the term is racially charged.
Calling someone alt-right was uncalled for FB, and comes awfully close to a personal attack.
Jan 31, 2021No.Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
First off, there's false equivalency here. The Mafia forum has already indicated a direction from moving away from the term 'lynch' which is the term you are objecting to. Secondly, there is the matter of context, usage, and history involved; as well as the cultural implications in areas which are not the United States, which you seem to be repeatedly ignoring.
What we have here is not a group deciding what is and is not racist, it is the understanding that the term has been used in a separate context with a different meaning. They have accepted that the term has charged usage outside of their context, and have made indications towards moving towards different usages.
Let me give you an alternate example, in the word "Retard." Retard is considered an pejorative and offensive word here on MTGS. We do not accept it as an insult, description, or even passing phrase. However, we also understand that the term holds history as a medical term, which though no longer widely acceptable even in that context, could hold legitimate usages. Despite the word having a legitimate context in medical history - the medical profession has moved onward and discontinued usage of the word due to the negative connotations, which came in from an outside context. However, that change occured over a period of time of phasing out the terminology.
That is what is happening here. They have a word within their context and definition, have accepted there is a charged connotation, and are now in the process of phasing out their vocabulary. At this time, we are allowing this change and phasing to occur naturally. Should this natural phase out stall or not occur in good faith, we shall revisit the topic, but at this juncture we do not see any reason to assume any sort of bad faith.
In any regard, this entire thing may soon be a moot point, so at current we are awaiting to see how this plays out.
Jan 31, 2021Hi guys, if you have drama from somewhere else, settle it there, not here. This beef does not have a place in this thread - this thread is for the discussion of the future of the Mafia group, and thereby the forums as they stand here. Not personal vendettas.Posted in: Mafia
Jan 6, 2021Discussion about how the users of this site are terrible people isn't a productive line of discussion, and is insulting to those people that use this site. It also has nothing to do with the leaks.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
If you have concerns about the site's directions, or have ideas for improvements, please let us know in the staff inbox. We would love to hear your feedback as to how to make the site a more welcoming experience.
This is not the thread for that though. Thanks.
Dec 19, 2020Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
We will always do what we can to make MTGSalvation a safe place to foster respectful discussion about Magic. We do have to remember that this is a hobby that many people are passionate about, and when passions are high, things can get a bit heated. Moderators are here to try and salve and smooth over those times when things get a bit too passionate, as well as to respond to comments that go beyond the bounds of our community.Quote from OrzhovPlaneswalker »I would like to know how the forum intends to implement the policy on 'Inclusion in the MTG Salvation Community'.
Edit: There's been a lot of flaming and snide remarks made by users on the very principles this policy is based upon and I'm tired of seeing our threads devolve just because somebody doesn't like seeing a Black women be the face of a Viking-inspired set.
If you, or anyone else, finds comments they feel are unsafe, harmful, or go beyond the bounds of our community, we urge you to bring these comments to our attention with the Report feature, and include why you feel the comment is inappropriate.
Our moderators are volunteers, and are only human as well. Sometimes we make mistakes, or simply do not have the knowledge on certain matters. I once received a report based on a derogatory word which I had been previously unaware of, but was able to understand the context of from the explanation of the reporter as well as a bit of research. More explanation is always good.
If a person take issue about a character being in the set because of their race. That is racism. There is no other word for it. It's literally the issue being discussed. Her race.
This is a fictional game, where Planeswalkers are travelers. They are foreign elements into ANY of these worlds they visit. That's the whole point of Magic. Jace can visit Ixalan, Sorin can visit Zendikar, Arlinn can visit Ravnica. To say that a foreign tourist ruins the immersion or historical accuracy of a world? Because of their RACE?
No. Those statements are not acceptable. It is literally an argument about exclusion based on race, which is the literal definition of racism.
Nevermind historical realities that the Vikings sailed all the way into the Mediterranean, and traded with, and fought, in that region. Considering that Vikings dealt with, dealt in, and took slaves, having Black characters would even NOT be out of context, if we were going for historical accuracy.
The Norse also took Baltic, Slavic and Latin slaves. The Vikings kept some slaves as servants and sold most captives in the Byzantine or Islamic markets. The slave trade was one of the pillars of the Norse economy during the 6th through 11th centuries. The Persian traveler Ibn Rustah described how Swedish Vikings, the Varangians or Rus, terrorized and enslaved the Slavs taken in their raids along the Volga River.The well-known Harald Hardrada would also serve the Byzantine emperor in Palestine as well as raiding North Africa, the Middle East as far east as Armenia, and the island of Sicily in the 11th century, as recounted in his saga in Snorri Sturluson's Heimskringla.
Evidence for Norse ventures into Arabia and Central Asia can be found in runestones erected in Scandinavia by the relatives of fallen Viking adventurers. Several of these refer to men who died in "Serkland" (possibly Arabia).
Calling someone a Nazi is Flaming, and will be infracted. If you see this behavior occur, please report it.When a post gets completely of topic (or any claim somebody is a "nazi" should be outright removed, its a massive fuel to catapult any discourse out of the window).
I disagree. Not every statement is equally correct, moral, or impactful. We are under no obligation, morally or otherwise, to allow a platform to every kind of speech or opinion. For example, outright hateful speech will never be permitted on this site. The question is thus not about "whether" we can or should moderate, but about "where."
As it is right now, the calls for censorship and moderation in favor of a unified mindset and not allowing any negative opinions about anything is harmful.
Finding the line between allowing polite and insightful discussion can sometimes be tricky. Sometimes, such as with racism, it's not.
This is hyperbole. Of course not everyone will accept or connect with everything about every character. I have criticism on how many aspects of Magic have been handled, such as the retcon of Ugin, and how the Bolas arc ended.
"You are not allowed to critique anything of a fictional character"
However, when the critique of a character is based upon their race, or their gender, or their gender identity... That's not a critique. That's prejudice.
Dec 18, 2020bobthefunny posted a message on Two new planeswalkers Niko Aris and Tyvar Kell (bio only)Right. I thought this was cleaned up yesterday, but apparently I was wrong. This is now WAY off base. None of this is even about Magic anymore.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
I'm shutting this down.
Dec 15, 2020bobthefunny posted a message on Two new planeswalkers Niko Aris and Tyvar Kell (bio only)Posted in: The Rumor MillQuote from Decadent_Creed »I do have one issue with Niko though. Why exactly is "athlete" blue? I read their justification but this to me really harkens back to "new thing" being put in blue in the early days of Magic. It feels a little strange to me that blue gets the jocks and the nerds. It's like the breakfast club but blue is overrepresented.
It feels to me that 'athlete' can fall into any of the five colors, depending on motivation. Green is probably most natural, given the physical 'natural' contest, and we see that with The First Iroan Games. However, red has the passion of athleticism (Hero of the Games), black has the competitiveness, and white has the teamwork and self-discipline. I can certainly see Blue getting in on it with rigidness and self improvement.
Physical study and excellence is certainly a newer spotlight for blue, but we have seen physically proficient characters in blue, such as the ninja - who achieve their physical excellence through training and study. Lu Xun, Scholar General and Sun Ce, Young Conquerer could be another? Zhou Yu, Chief Commander is no slouch either, as an 8/8. Or the representation of monks with Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest?
This also feels right at home on Theros, as the real world comparison - the Olympic Games, welcomed competitors of all walks of life - it makes sense that there would be athletes of all color alignments represented. This also aligns with some real world examples, such as Plato, who was a wrestler and wrestling coach. Socrates was a distinguished soldier.
Overall, we haven't seen a lot of sports at all in magic - The most athletic event would likely be the Coliseum in the Battlebond set, where we see a variety of charaters, from Green having the physically weakest contestant, to Will Kenrith being a Blue character with good physical prowess.
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Feb 5, 2021Posted in: The Rumor MillQuote from Werewolf_Rawr »So much woke in Magic: the Gathering where escapism should be at it's peak. Glad to see so many woke people on this forum too. Glad y'all have a place to remind everyone how with it you are. Product is 100% pandering. Could've released this at any time - but it wasn't, it was done now. And that's why it's off. It has nothing to do with the product itself and some of you can't see that. That being said, this is nothing to be surprised about from WOTC.
Magic is absolutely a place for escapism. What your not realizing is that seeing yourself in the characters is a big part of escapism. Black Magic players deserve escapism just as much as you do. Sure, people can see themselves in characters with different skin color from their own, but that just makes your complaint all the more absurd.
In case you guys haven't noticed, Magic is all about pandering. They literally just released a set pandering to Norse mythology fans, then they're going to pander to Harry Potter fans, then D&D fans, then horror fans. How about when they pander to someone who isn't you, you can just, like, not throw a fit?
Dec 15, 2020OrzhovPlaneswalker posted a message on Two new planeswalkers Niko Aris and Tyvar Kell (bio only)Posted in: The Rumor MillQuote from Tiro of Meletis »
He wanted more Latin representation. He's correct for calling out WOTC for thinking representation is only about extremes. That said, Kaya is a Planeswalker, not a native of this plane, she can appear anywhere. And he was called out for suggesting representation is mutually exclusive, which it isn't. That was the flaw in his argument, not "racism."Quote from Decadent_Creed »You say that and then we get multiple people saying that they're tired of seeing so many black people. So idk maybe it's not as crazy as you like to pretend it is
Except...that wasn't what he said in full. And I think you know that.
It is perfectly reasonable to want more Latino characters and to express that desire. What is unacceptable is to then blame that lack of Latino representation on WotC's deliberate choice to try to represent more Black folks and folx better. It's not mutually exclusive.
I actually am a Canadian conservative queer, but what you and many similar commentators are communicating here isn't really conservatism, nor is it an argument grounded in logic, or good faith.
Its just rage mate.
There's nothing wrong with Kaya being the lead of this set. She's well-costumed and equipped for the plane. I adore her.
It is awesome to have a human planeswalker like Nico, who can better represent Non-binary folx. Nonbinary robots and monsters are hard to relate to.
We have a Latino Planeswalker. His name is Teyo. Teyo and Huatli will not be the last planeswalkers to better represent Latin American ethnicities.
We have a new, red-headed, Scandinavian-looking Elven Planeswalker who is native to the plane of Kaldheim.
Dear MtGSalvation users: Do you see that REPORT option below users' posted comments? If a fellow user posts discriminatory content, engages in flaming, or is otherwise being disruptive in some other way. Report it. Make it clear what is acceptable in our community, and what it is not.
We don't have to engage. We can even ignore. If you're a forum lurker, but haven't joined yet, Feel free to sign up and respectfully participate.
Help us make our gaming community even better.
Dec 5, 2020People in my group don’t really proxy. I am probably the only one who does, and I have known rules for when I do.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
1. Proxy with the intent to purchase.
2. Proxy duplicates to avoid Mass card swapping between decks and games.
Example 1: I am fleshing out a new commander like Rikku and know I am going to want an Imperial Recruiter. I will proxy for a session or two while it is on order. If I don’t intend on buying it (for whatever reason) I don’t proxy it in the first place.
Example 2: Time Spirals are difficult to find, and expensive. I own a copy already and intend to buy another one months down the road. I will proxy it to save time swapping cards from one deck to another between games.
Generally my group has never really had an issue with this as they know I tend to only have the proxy for a play session or two. Way back when, this was how my initial group handled things as well, proxies were never meant to be a permanent thing. If someone wanted and Underground Sea but had no intention of purchasing one, they just never proxied it. There is something about being prideful about the curation and ownership of a Commander deck, that many players silently acknowledge and want others to aspire to. If you genuinely feel like you cannot keep up because you don’t want to shell out for a Cradle - then you need to have an honest conversation with your group and with yourself, about what you want from commander. If it is getting out of control in your group, you should all agree to some basic rules, either like mine above, or cap the number of proxies. I personally find that half of the fun is actually collecting the cards to play with them.
All that being said, I think most people who have played the format long enough, probably just don’t care if you proxy or not.
Sep 29, 2020Posted in: Staff HelpdesksQuote from Banned1 »I'm going to direct this one at bob, for obvious reasons (apart from the fact that this is his thread):
Is there a way that we can connect or converse more directly with the site owners? I would like to know why your site admins seem to think it's okay to casually use the word 'lynch' in the current political climate. See this post: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/817898-voldemorts-throne-room-mafia-game-over-town-win?comment=4901
Given that lynch is a word with very heavy racial overtones, and that we're currently suffering from societal issues around extrajudicial killings, it doesn't strike me that this is acceptable discourse. Perhaps there is some context that I'm unaware of; it doesn't matter. This was discovered by way of a site admin's profile and viewing their most recent posts, and if there's something buried in that thread to explain it, I don't see how any casual observer would bother to sift through ~5,000 posts for an explanation. I wouldn't hesitate to report a random poster for using such language, I certainly don't see how the site owners can lay claim to promoting a 'neutral' atmosphere here at MTGS when even their own admins exercise poor judgment in conversation.
Given the discourse that has already transpired in this very thread (for whatever that's worth), it would only serve to validate the impression that MTGS has an alt-right bias if shadowlancerx were allowed to maintain their current level of power and authority. I respectfully urge that the wolf be removed from the sheep. Thank you.
Is this Flow speaking again trying to repeat what happened on MU?
The forum mafia community on MtGSalvation (and elsewhere) has addressed the use of the word "lynch" and taken steps to move away from it. This has become the standard across major forum mafia communities, with people using "execute", "eliminate", "kill", or "yeet", among others. There is not an active censorship of the word "lynch" for most communities because it would reap more negative results than positive. Not from people not being willing to change, but from change taking time.
Having been in an admin position in another forum mafia community for about two years now, we also brought up the change. And the same discussion happened in every other forum mafia community I've seen:
- Censorship is not a policy to maintain and opens up a very different can of worms.
- The community is diverse; there are non-US-citizens for whom censorship of the word "lynch" is Americans forcing their own problems on the rest of the community.
- It is possible to encourage use of other words and doing so will be more effective over time to peacefully ensure stepping away from the word "lynch" than censorship.
A small few forum mafia communities have still chosen to censor the word, but the more common forum mafia community consensus is one of encouraging other words instead of one of punishing people for using the word.
Additionally, while Shadowlancerx is a member of the MTGSalvation forum mafia community, he does not uniquely represent it. It is an active part of the site which as of most recent discussion, even prior to Shadowlancerx becoming an admin, there were no plans to remove from the site, despite past MTGSalvation admin history of hating on, bullying, and removing non-Magic sections and members involved in said sections. Unlike other admins, Shadow and bob are good people, not emblematic of the rampant bullying of site users, disgusting back-doors gossip, and admin-maintained drama for the sake of drama which has been the normal from MtGSalvation site admins for years. MTGSalvation as a site had become a dead whale since long before the site threatened to close. The previous group of admins realized this and left to make their own site, cutting off anyone who didn't want to switch over as unworthy. Leaving behind a skeleton crew to run things and knowing that the support of the Commander RC and similar sorts of little odds and ends would keep their site afloat rather than what was left of MTGSalvation. Shadowlancerx was asked to step up as a staff member who was prominent in one of the only groups still active on the site, the forum mafia community.
The MtGSalvation forum mafia community has already had offers from other forum mafia communities to join them elsewhere. I was one of several making that offer. The MTGSalvation forum mafia community, while it has had more history than the site itself, has always been a positive contribution even at its lowest moments.
In addition to running a mafia community, like mikeyG, I also used to moderate the Debate section here. There is no impression that MTGSalvation has an alt-right bias. There never has been. MtGSalvation has always been accused of being a liberal echo-chamber.
While this thread is not a replacement, a group of prominent MtGS Debate veterans have had a Discord replacement for a while now. Said Discord can be found here for any who are interested:
The Once and Future Debate
If a person arrives at this site from google, wanting to look up an interaction, or discuss some new cards - but instead they see a bunch of people yelling at each other about entirely unrelated things? Well suddenly that makes this seem like a terrible site to come to for the answers to Magic related questions.
I joined this site to discuss Magic. I joined it to discuss Commander. I joined the moderator team to help improve the goals of facilitating that kind of discussion. For the last THREE MONTHS, 95% of my interaction and duties on this site have been entirely non-magic related. I'm frankly getting sick and tired of this.
It's almost like when you shut down the non-Magic sections of a site and move the Magic discussion to another site which is even more draconian about non-Magic discussion than MTGSalvation was because it is representative of the people who run it, you get non-Magic discussion in other sections of the first site... Not sure why this would be a surprise.
Nah... You're confusing Debate with the Gutter because that's the propaganda that was pounded into all of our heads. It was never the same thing.
Looking at the retired forum, there are 11 threads that needed to be deleted in the first page alone, and another 9 on the second page. That's not healthy. There are also a significant amount of red text, and banned members in the responses.
Yeah, it was over-moderated as a policy, particularly by admins and a couple of overbearing global moderators, who like the admins, went out of their way to maintain high levels of drama throughout their dealings.
I am well aware that there were several mods that held the forum in fond memory, however there was solid reason to shut it down at the time. Perhaps it could return one day, but today is definitely not the time.
The solid reason to shut it down at the time was that both of the moderators involved (myself and Blinking Spirit) had other commitments. I had school which was taking up more and more of my time, and Blinking Spirit had their own personal concerns. These were not the primary reason it was shut down, though. They weren't even the spark. The admins at the time had openly made clear for years that they wanted to shut down as many non-Magic sections as they could. It was convenient. A section shutdown had been on the table for months.
You can tell the behaviour in the section wasn't really the problem because the Debate regulars now participate in our own Discord, which necessitates a much lower level of moderation than the MtGS Debate section ever had.
Sep 26, 2020Posted in: Staff Helpdeskswhile lots of other people come to this gaming forums to AVOID politics and just focus on the game.
I can agree with this. It appears I was “sucked in”, but it can be difficult to just cut some conversations off.
I think the biggest takeaway here is, if everybody who’s clamoring for change went to the appropriate channels and put that energy there, rather than bicker with a bunch of nerdy *********s, we would probably be further along in this process. I think this year has been the most “actionable” I’ve seen from the groups that are most vocal, but Buffsam89 isn’t the one whose going to be making the changes. Vote. Get involved and play your part. Who cares what MTGSalvation censors or allows, aside from the obvious red flags. The energy directed here needs to be fed into the appropriate channels. And from there, a trickle down effect is certainly to ensue.
Sep 15, 2020Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
That is boggling, and naive, yes. Anyone can be racist.The very idea that black "cant be racist" is mind boggling naive.
That depends entirely on the framework you're looking at, the colloquial usage or the social sciences usage. Colloquially, of course anyone can be racist in the sense that anyone of any race can hold race-based prejudices that cause them to see other races as less than and/or their own race as greater than, or otherwise infers inequality on an individual level. That's the typical definition you get when you google racism, and it is entirely true on an individual level.
I think the problem here is that many engaged in this conversation are, because the topic is on a society-wide issue, talking about systemic/institutionalized racism, which is a whole different beast. Unequal practices built into organizations or institutional systems that disproportionately benefit or disadvantage particular racial groups is really what we're talking about here, not racism on an individual level. Within a white supremacist society/system, nonwhite people and groups are going to lack or be denied institutional power, and without significant power on a systemic level, those people/groups are unable to wield systemic racism, even if they may be racially prejudiced on an individual level. So when people say "black people can't be racist," what they're really saying is "black people are denied systemic power and therefore cannot create systems that meaningfully create/sustain black supremacy." Black people can certainly be prejudiced, they just don't have the power to control the very systems oppressing them (which was the point of those systems in the first place). Is that more complicated? Yes. Can it be hard to parse through someone's words to understand what they mean when they talk about racism? Sure. Are the distinctions between the two uses of the word vital to talking about the issue of systemic racism and unjust policing? Absolutely.
Systemic racism and individual racism are certainly connected, they feed and reinforce one another, and dismantling one requires dismantling the other. They just serve distinct functions within society and their complex interactions are a significant reason why these conversations are challenging.
** As an aside, I think there is an interesting conversation to be had about whether racial minorities can create pockets within the larger white supremacist society that involve racially prejudiced systems, but that's a conversation not best served by having it amongst (presumably, and pardon to anyone this does not apply to) white people. At a time where systemic racism is causing untold suffering and taking lives. I think there's an intriguing academic discussion there, it would only serve as a distraction in the current climate/discussion, though.
Aug 2, 2020Abel88 posted a message on Infinite combos and strong synergies - now under new managementsadly the jegantha sword combo doesnt work. it can't pay for generic manaPosted in: Commander (EDH)
Apr 3, 2020I really think people are making a mountain out of a molehill. None of the ones spoiled so far, except Lutri obviously, are worth the heavy restrictions they impose upon your deck. They're going to be kinda fun to try as gimmick builds - try remaking your favorite deck, but now with this restriction! - but unless there's a big spike in power they're going to be a sign that your deck sucks more than anything.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
Lutri is obviously good here, but in standard I'm pretty skeptical that the restriction is worth it. So Lutri isn't really a power spike, just a bad fit for commander.
Hey, I played sol ring in my feather deck. Sure, not as good as many other decks, but there's still cards that need colorless. And when you T1 a boros signet, that's good feeling. But I agree, not a total auto-include. I didn't run it in my child of alara, for example, since it would just blow it up immediately. Maybe I still should have ran it, but it's at least a question. With lutri there's literally no question, you just run it every time. Not great for format diversity, and could easily become expensive and then creates unpleasant pay-to-win situations. Plus it's just another card you "have" to acquire to optimize any RU deck. I do wish they'd picked a different criteria for lutri. Ah well. Seems fun for standard I guess.Quote from FunkyDragon »Sol Ring is not an auto-include, no matter how many times people say it is. In Feather, it is an actively bad card and should never be run, as the deck is so color hungry. In most decks, it's a good idea to run, but it's a pretty bad top deck late game in just about every deck. In those decks, the gain of fast early mana is offset by the opportunity cost of drawing a useless mana rock late game. Lutri completely ignores the idea of opportunity cost and needed to not function in Commander as a Companion.
I agree with your concern about proving the restriction. Do we just go on faith, and then an hour in declare that the player auto-forfeits because they had one card that broke the restriction? Do we have to do deck checks beforehand? It's a stupid, stupid nightmare of an ability in paper.
Proving the restriction argument is ridiculous, though, for two reasons.
1) nobody demands to check that everyone else's deck is singleton in advance. We just assume we're not trying to cheat. In tourneys, there's deck registration to verify that.
2) since you have to reveal your companion at the beginning of the game, if you put anything that violates the rule into your deck, your opponent will instantly know you cheated when you try to cast it. You could put them in your deck and never cast them, I guess, but what would be the point?
If someone accidentally violates the rule, I'd do exactly what I do when someone accidentally has a banned card - tell them to exile it and draw another card (not triggering any draw triggers ofc, no getting sneaky with niv mizzet lol). If they violate it before they cast their companion, I guess I'd let them pick whether they want the card or the companion, if I was feeling generous. In either case, I'd tell them to fix their deck before the next game. Not a huge deal.
If someone already cast their companion, time passed, and then it later turns out they had a ton of violating cards in the deck...that would be weird...depending how many they had, maybe I'd tell them to just quit and fix their deck. Outside of intentional cheating I can't see how that'd happen, though.
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