MTG Salvation

Expedition Map is the only way in mono-red to search up a non-basic typed land card. There are other tutor effects, like Ring of three wishes or Planar Portal - but those are expensive to run.

There are a number of ways to tutor up artifacts though to get it, as well as ways to recur artifacts in red to use it multiple times.

You can also use cards like Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient in order to copy the search ability.

I don't know if this is the best method to get that mana though. You might be better off running Cloudpost with Vesuva and Thespian's Stage. You could even run Glimmerpost then. I know the Urzatron comes in untapped, but at least the locus lands give benefits quicker, and Vesuva and Stage are just generally solid cards.

Quote from NerdSoda »

I dont think they would do 4 wedges and 1 shard; Ruthless Regiment is probably RWB

I considered that, but that would put W four times. They have done 3-2 splits of cycles in sets before. I can see them doing a 3-2 split here.

Oh hey. I put WRU twice! Well THAT's clearly not right. Let's try this again:

Ruthless Regiment - RBW
Arcane Maelstrom - RU +G?
Symbiotic Swarm - GWB
Timeless Wisdom - UWR
Enhanced evolution - UGB

Then again, they may not make them all 3 color either. There may be a mix of 3 color and 2 color decks. I feel the initial pairing of colors makes sense for the theme, but part of the issue is that it's a 3-2 split between ally (RB, WU, GW) and enemy pairs (UR, UG), and that blue gets repeated 3 times - yet makes the most sense in each of those themes. Like, you're not going to say that any of those 3 doesn't have blue in it.

I'd initially almost put Ruthless Regiment as RW due to 'Regiment,' then realized I'd left out black entirely, and that 'Ruthless' really does lean towards RB, or possibly WB. When I went for upping to 3 colors, I realized I had overdone White again, but green could fit in with ruthless hordes, maybe? Anyways. WRB does make more sense.

I'd still be more inclined towards WUR for the Arcane deck, just because of storm, arcane, and prowess style mechanics, and because of commanders like Shu Yun, etc. They definitely like putting that kind of mechanic synergy into white (Monastery Mentor...) - but green can fit as well, with Commanders like Riku of two reflections, - or it might be more literal, leaning into Maelstrom Wanderer and more of a Cascade theme instead. Which... now seems more likely.

At first guess, the names seem to line up well with color pairs very well:

Ruthless Regiment - RB
Arcane Maelstrom - RU
Symbiotic Swarm - GW
Timeless Wisdom - UW
Enhanced evolution - UG

Which seems a little off. B only shows up once, while U shows up three times. These could be three color decks again, which would then probably go down:

Ruthless Regiment - RBG
Arcane Maelstrom - RUW
Symbiotic Swarm - GWB
Timeless Wisdom - UWR
Enhanced evolution - UGB

There's probably a lot of factors going on here. I have noticed a tendency to let things sit for at least a turn order often enough, I believe in order to build up height and let various cards get to show what they can do - it's not always very exciting if someone plays a [[Mind's Eye]] and it immediately gets destroyed. They're making a show as well as playing a game.

And that can lead to these things happening as well - remember, they ARE making a show. This means that they have a lot more going on, and a lot more to think about at any given time. They'll likely also periodically need to pause, in order to clean up the board for a certain camera shot/angle. They have a lot of effects, where you see the board, and a bunch of things get destroyed disappearing from the board. This takes at least two shots - the before and after, while being careful not to disrupt too much of the rest of the board so the editor can fix it, and everyone has to back up during that shot. This adds a lot of overhead to filming the game, so it's understandable that certain pieces of the game can get missed.

Obviously, I assume all of their asides get filmed after the game is done, when they can choose what seemed like the most impactful plays, and likely record far more than they actually air - but just remember there's still a lot that goes into this. Even while the game is going on.

Also, I do feel they play at a more relaxed/casual/kitchen level - which is mostly where my playgroup likes to chill as well.

Quote from Alexev »

For example, in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqalJabqJsA at minute 7.47 Josh decide to play Wickerbough elder and he tapped out, he has a lot of pretty good targets for the ability but no mana for the activation.

In this case, I'm not sure about labeling this as a misplay. He got another creature on the board for Cradle, and got a snake out of it because it came in with a -1 counter, which sets up some defensive plays. While I question running out the Elder so early as well, I can see the benefits to it too.

Quote from JaceBluesMaster »

At 40 bucks, only one of them is cheaper than simply buying the existing cards. I think this product would have been a huge hit at 30 bucks a pop.

Well have I got good news for you... If you buy ALL of them, they ARE at 30 a pop!

Jokes aside, I think this product was mostly done well... In fact, if anything, it should maybe be more expensive. Right now, people who simply want a playable set of cards can buy them elsewhere, cheaper, so this drop isn't undercutting the general secondary market - while still being appealing to collectors and investors - especially the latter since this drop actually IS a giant cut on current prices! Currently, pricing out each of these cards on TCG player non-foil is $165. Selecting this same cart with foil versions of the cards yields an impressive cart of about $450. That's pretty impressive.

Keep in mind the current pricing on these cards for the comparison are comparing to regular, non-foil versions of these cards. Instead, these versions are foil, and alternate art promos. Now, everyone has their preference when it comes to foils or art, but typically these make the item have more of a premium price, rather than less.

Right now, purchasing the entire drop for $150 actually comes out positive on value for the purchaser, compared to non-premium versions of the cards - that's pretty insane. It doesn't even hold a candle to current premium copies. And this doesn't account for whether or not they decide to add any special gifts, like the stained glass planeswalkers. This drop is just bonkers. It's good enough that you could purchase the whole set and not feel bad, and probably even flip it, but not so crazy that everyone feels obligated to purchase it or miss out on a crazy deal. - I'm personally not a huge fan of the aesthetic, so I'll probably forgo this one, though I at least have a few days to consider it.

Of course, that will depend on what the resulting supply ends up being. Seeing as how one item appears to already be out of pre-printed stock (likely the Red bundle, as it has the highest current value), it seems the sales are going well, so supply may be somewhat higher than expected long term.

Quote from Ryperior74 »

The 465 thing

Sorry man that’s not gonna be the value of all of these

Reaper kings are $68 in foil and sliver over lords are $87 in foil

But the bad news

Secret lair sliver overlords are only $20 and the non foils are 28$

And secret lair reaper kings are 10$ While non foils are $11

Of course this isn't going to be the price of these long term - but the comparison remains apt. In terms of value, this drop is coming close to the standard printing, for something that is considered more premium in nature, and will have collector value further on. This does mean that close to release, there will certainly be a greater supply, and prices should (hopefully) remain lower. However, if you were looking for a more 'premium' version of these cards - perhaps for foiling out a deck - this is by far a better deal currently than trying to actually get OG foils.

The reaper king and sliver overlord comparison is also VERY misleading. Those are some old sets, that have a much lower print run. You're comparing a print run that just happened, to printings that are 16 years old and 11 years old.

A better comparison might be the snow covered lands, which have been released more recently. Regular Ice-age snow forests are a bit over $1. Full art snow lands are .50. Foil coldsnap and foil full-arts are around $7. The secret lair Snow-forest are $14. Even that is misleading though, as there are now several sets worth of snow-lands in the wild, giving ample supply, so the only thing propping up the Secret Lair prices is not people seeking usability, but only people seeking uniqueness and scarcity. Contrastingly, this drop is aimed at both. (The Kaleidoscope set, in comparison was more for usability, as those cards had been out of print for a considerable time).

For a lair that people criticized as having one of the lowest values compared to current card prices, that one is now sitting pretty nice as an investment.

Some people like the bling.

Quote from Relaxed1 »

Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth + Sensei's Divining Top = infinite mana and infinite card draw. Explanation

just for those that it concerns, the explanation link does not work. it goes to a page and says "you are forbidden to perform this action."

Interesting. It's a legacy link, but it should redirect fine, and did for me. I'll note it for the techs. The link just goes to this post:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/204377-infinite-combos-database-now-looking-for?page=6#c126

For a quick summary if you need it, this is actually a combination of two combos:

1 - Infinite mana. Rings+Monolith

• You'll need 2 extra mana to start,
• Activate the basalt monolith for 3 mana.
• Use the 3 mana to untap the Basalt monolith. Copy the untap ability with Rings of brighthearth by paying 2.
• Your two untaps will yield you 6 mana. Untapping + copy takes 5 mana. You now have infinite mana.

2 - Card draw off of Rings+Top

• Activate the top to draw a card. Pay 2 mana to copy it with Rings.
• When the copy resolves, you'll draw a card and put the Top on top of the library.
• When the original ability resolves, you'll draw a card (the Top), and fail to put the top on the library, since it's no longer in play.
• For 1 mana, recast the Top.
• Congratulations, you have drawn a card for 3 mana. If you hypothetically had infinite mana due to another combo that involved rings anyways, you might be able to draw lots of cards.

Quote from donatelo_leonardo_unmerged276 »

Quote from bobthefunny »

Hi Mirrorman95,

Sorry for the delay in updates - I thought at first I could fix this quickly, but it's taking a bit longer than I expected. Just wanted to give you an update that we ARE looking at this, and not leaving you in the dark.

I've had the same exact problem as mirrorman. I tried logging in to my old account and haven't had any luck. Even contacted twitch and they said that I needed to contact someone from MTGS. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

This should be resolved now.

I apologize for not getting to this sooner - I have alerts on the inbox forum, but that doesn't trigger on thread replies, so this didn't notify me.

If future people find this thread, send me a PM, or drop a note on my inbox thread so I get replies - thanks!

Annihilator is an extremely powerful mechanic that can really shut a person out of a game, especially as hits ramp up. Since you're likely to hit where the most damage is done, it can very quickly eat into a player's manabase, which can really cripple someone and put them out of the game essentially. I've built an Eldrazi deck, and had to make the choice between cutting Annihilator, cutting haste effects, or trimming down both, just because of how unfun it is.

That said, my vote actually goes to Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. Both versions are extremely strong, and will be 'stronger' depending on what you are trying to accomplish, but my thoughts go like this:

• Ceaseless Hunger has a considerably more powerful 'on cast' ability, giving much better immediate value. It hits two targets (essentially 5 mana per 'removal', which is pretty good effectiveness in colorless), instead of one, and also exiles instead of destroys. One of the main reasons to run Ulamog is for a colorless removal option tied to a big beater, so better removal is strongly welcome.
• Ceaseless Hunger costs 1 less. The difference between 10 and 11 mana may actually not be that big of an issue when you plan to ramp up there anyways, but 1 extra mana is still an advantage.
• In terms of game ending threats, Inifinite Gyre's Annihilator is considerably more powerful of an ability since it impacts the board, so even if removed the value gained is good, while decks that run Ceaseless Hunger may not have ways to follow up on the mill should he get removed. However, exiling 20 cards is still a potent game closer, often taking only 3ish attacks to really end someone's game, despite any presence of chump blockers. Certain decks may have a considerably easier time dealing with Inifinite Gyre's Annihilator, and can just chump him for days (token decks). As such, Ceaseless Hunger's game closeout potential is still quite strong as well.
• Very niche, but there are some fun things you can do with Ceaseless Hunger's exiled cards, such as Oblivion Sower.
• In terms of 'fun', Ceaseless hunger generally offers more potential, and Infinite Gyre is considerably more detrimental to others' play experience.
• Combined with Haste, however, Infinite Gyre can be a much bigger surprise board-state wrecking tool, upping destruction to 5 permanents (cast+annihilator) for only 11 mana, barely more than 2 mana per destruction. If this is following a wrath effect, or some other situation where you catch someone with their pants down, even this one hit can be backbreaking. Ceaseless Hunger doesn't have quite that same impact on a hasted attack.

If I were building a deck, I would probably usually end up including Ceaseless Hunger before Infinite Gyre in most circumstances.

Quote from Alexev »

Thank you for the answer and the great ideas, there is so much to do, I have some of the cards you suggest and will get others to try, legion's landing is awesome to my current token strategy too

Than ks again, I apreciate very much all the time and effort you have taken to answer in deep my question.

Not a problem! You've kind of touched on one of the problems that I was really interested in looking into, so it fits well. Obviously not every card will fit in every deck, you need to pick and choose the strategies that are most synergistic with what you're trying to do... but there's definitely room for improvisation and out-of-the-box thinking in a lot of these. It's interesting what different decks can do with it.

Good luck!

Quote from Outcryqq »

I came to name a few of my favorite. Now I've seen Bob's extensive list and I'll show myself to the door...

Bumps for Solemn Simulacrum and Sword of the Animist.

lol, not at all! Any addition is always a good addition!

I didn't touch on red on this list, but I'll say that one of the major reasons I wanted to build Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient as my mono-red deck was so that I could use Liquimetal Coating on my Evolving Wilds (et al) to ramp. (also Myr Landshaper). Something that's definitely narrow to that Commander, but just need to think outside the box.

You have asked me about my favorite topic.

When ramping in non-green colors, don't be afraid to get creative, and look for synergies between your ramp effects. Don't feel limited to cards that just say 'ramp' - these colors excel in bounce, flicker, and reanimation, all of which can be used to ramp. One of my favorite ways to ramp in Black for example is Undying Evil on my Burnished Hart or Solemn Silmulacrum when it's about to die.

One of the best non-green ramp cards ever printed is Rings of Brighthearth - This turns every fetchland into a rampant growth as well. It also doubles up your Burnished Hart, and also Wayfarer's Bauble. Before I go too far into it, here's just a dump of cards for you to look at:

I mentioned when some cards could get non-land ramp cards, but didn't include other 'ramp' cards that are explicitly non ramp (Smothering Tithe) since you specifically asked about lands.

COLORLESS:
1 - Wayfarer's Bauble - A rampant growth for any deck. Synergies well with artifact recursion.
2 - Sword of the Animist - Gets lands.
3 - Burnished Hart - A bigger sakura tribe elder for any deck.
3 - Crucible of Worlds - Doesn't ramp on its own, but ensures consistent land drops with fetch lands.
3 - Rings of Brighthearth - Ramps with fetch lands, turbos other ramp options. Can go infinite with Deserted Temple
3 - Sword of Light and Shadow - return your rampy dudes.
4 - Solemn Simulacrum - An all around acceptable pick, though not great in any specific area. Gets better with more synergy.
2 - Thaumatic Compass - Gets lands, IS LAND!
2 - Treasure Map - Becomes a land, and gives a ritual effect as well (or you could draw cards, that's ok too.)
2 - Dowsing Dagger - Give one person plants, hit someone else.
4 - Golden Guardian - Fight something of yours prior to a wrath effect for free flippy.
4 - Conqueror's Galleon - It's a land that does everything.
6 - Oblivion Sower - Works best with other exile effects, but still works.
---
4 - Prototype Portal - I have imprinted an artifact land before.
5 - Mirrorworks - I have copied artifact lands.

BLACK
1 - Undying Evil - Cast on Burnished Hart (or other rampy mcdude)
1 - Supernatural Stamina - Undying Evil #2
1 - Kaya's Ghost Form - Undying Evil #3
1 - Unearth - Burnished hart...
2 - Dance of the Dead - aim at that green player. Or a robot.
2 - Animate Dead - aim at that green player. Or a robot.
4 - Liliana of the Dark Realms - Not ramp, but keeps up swamp counts.

BLUE
2 - Search for Azcanta - It's eventually a rampant growth.
2 - Phantasmal Image - Copy a robot.
2 - Dance of Many - Copy a robot.
2 - Copy Artifact - Copy a robot.
2 - Twincast - hello mr. Green player.
2 - Narset's Reversal - Hello mr. Green player.
3 - Trinket Mage - Gets Wayfarer's Bauble, Sol Ring, Skullclamp, etc.
3 - Tribute Mage - Gets Sword of the Animist. Mana rocks, etc.
3 - Trophy Mage - Gets Burnished Hart, Sword of Light and Shadow, Crucible of Worlds, Rings of Brighthearth, Mana rocks, etc.
5 - Tezzeret the Seeker - -0: get artifact land. -1 get sol ring. -3 get Rings, then -0, get 2 lands. etc.

WHITE - second best 'ramp' color.
1 - Legion's Landing - it's a 1 cost land.
2 - Relic Seeker - Gets Sword of the Animist. (or skullclamp)
2 - Stoneforge Mystic - Gets Sword of the Animist. (or skullclamp)
2 - Knight of the White Orchid - If you're behind, you ramp. Gets non-basics.
2 - Oath of Lieges - Makes everyone catch up to the ramp player. Rather good anti-ramp tech, actually.
2 - Angelic Renewal - Combo with Burnished Hart, or even Solemn Simulacrum, etc. Still has natural use outside of that.
3 - Boreas Charger - Again. Gets non-basics.
3 - Gift of Immortality - Put it on a Burnished Hart. Smile.
4 - Kor Cartographer - Ramps. Gets non-basics.
4 - Restoration Angel - Flicker the sad robot.
6 - Sun Titan - Ramps with Fetchlands.
7 - Emeria Shepherd - Combo's with Burnished Hart to pull lots of lands out. Can chain with other things as well, such as Sun Titan.
1 - Land Tax - doesn't ramp on its own, but ensures land drops.
4 - Endless Horizons - doesn't ramp on its own, but ensures land drops. Don't have to go crazy on it either. Just pull out 5 basic plains, and no one cares enough to kill it, and you get 5 free cards.


LANDS

• Myriad Landscape - it ramps.
• Terrain Generator - gets extra lands from draws into play. Each investment pays off in future turns.
• Rav bounce lands - These don't 'ramp' per se, but ensure you hit a land drop that you might otherwise have missed, by giving you a virtual 'land' in hand.
• Thawing Glaciers - Doesn't 'ramp' per se (on its own), but ensures you hit land drops. Ramps with Deserted Temple or Rings of Brighthearth.
• Deserted Temple - Ramps with Glaciers, goes infinite with Rings + large mana land (Coffers).

I'm sure Ill think of more later. I have used each of these cards, for the sake of ramping, in at least one deck at some point or another.