2019 Holiday Exchange!
A New and Exciting Beginning
The End of an Era
  • posted a message on Currently Suspended/Banned Users.
    For egregious and flagrant disregard of the rules, Needamedic has been given a suspension, pending an account review.
    Posted in: Community Discussion
  • posted a message on [C21] Lorehold Legacies— The Command Zone previews
    Thread locked pending further review
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [RETIRED] [Admin] bobthefunny's Strategic Chalkboard
    We have unfortunately not had a local Rumor mill mod for quite a while now; which is why it has been managed by the Globals and Admins.
    Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
  • posted a message on [RETIRED] [Admin] bobthefunny's Strategic Chalkboard
    It certainly is not my preferred answer, but unfortunately is the only one I have to give. The owners prefer to have messages filtered through the moderation staff, so as to not be overly inundated with tickets that are best handled by the content staff. Even if I were to give you their usernames on MTGS (a giant breach of their trust in me), it would do little good, as they dont regularly visit this site - they have quite a few sites, and tend to focus more on 'managing the managers' ie, us, the moderators. We have a few avenues to reach them, such as Discord, but these are not open to the public.

    Unlike a big box store, we don't have a customer service call center to handle and direct tickets - we have a volunteer workforce of moderators, which has unfortunately gotten smaller as time has gone on. My various efforts to seek new blood have all ended in some sort of failure.

    The only other resource I can direct you to, is that we are owned (our "corporate") by MagicFind (which you can see on the footer of every page) with the logo directing you to https://www.magicfind.us/ . This is our "corporate" if you will.
    Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
    Looking forward to hearing about Spiritmonger.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [RETIRED] [Admin] bobthefunny's Strategic Chalkboard
    I unfortunately do not have an answer at this time. Any moderator should be able to reach the site owners in the case of an emergency on Discord, however, so you will still have an avenue.
    Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
  • posted a message on Wizards statement on Crux of fate
    This has gone off topic. This thread is about Cruz of Fate. It is not about Terese Nielson, right wing or left wing politics, or anything else.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [RETIRED] [Admin] bobthefunny's Strategic Chalkboard
    ShadowLancer will remain an active Administrator, and we will be looking to see if any of our active moderators are willing to step up to a more global role. As soon as I have more information, I will share it.
    Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
  • posted a message on [RETIRED] [Admin] bobthefunny's Strategic Chalkboard
    Hi everyone who follows here,

    I will be stepping down as an Administrator of this site in the near future. Due to circumstances beyond this site, I have found myself unable to dedicate the time and energy necessary towards the tasks and responsibilities required of me here. This is not fair nor healthy for anyone involved, so I will be stepping down on April 11th. You may still see me around the forums after that time, and I hope you will still say a friendly hello and join in the discussion.

    This thread will be unpinned and locked from that time forward.
    Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
  • posted a message on Saheeli's Directive bug in deck builder for commander
    Thank you for bringing this to our attention. This should be fixed now! Let me know if you have any other problems!
    Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
  • posted a message on Secret Lair: Black is Magic
    This is so far off the rails from discussing Magic at this point; I'm shutting this down.

    It's Black History Month, people... Making a product themed to that is not pandering, nor political. It's literally the theme of the month, and a Nationally recognized cultural event.

    I am going to take this moment to reiterate that MTGS stands behind inclusion initiatives, and increased diversity in Magic, these forums, and in life in general. Statements made against inclusion or diversity hold no place here.

    I am also going to reiterate that MTGS is not a place to argue about politics or social issues. Period.

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [RETIRED] [Admin] bobthefunny's Strategic Chalkboard
    Guys, this is turning too much into a debate thread. That's not the purpose here. Shutting this down for now.
    Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
  • posted a message on [RETIRED] [Admin] bobthefunny's Strategic Chalkboard
    Quote from FlossedBeaver »
    It's a fairly obvious clue that such language is inherently racist if, when race is actually factored in, you would shy away from using it. The fact that race hasn't been factored in yet is oddly bizarre, considering the site's supposed commitment to inclusion. Your determination here effectively boils down to the following: either all BIPOC people take no issue with words like 'lynch' being used casually on these forums (such an assumption would be willfully blind, ignorant, or both); or it's somehow your prerogative to tell people what they should or should not find offensive.

    Yes, if race were factored in it is racist. That is why outside of the context of a Mafia game, where the term 'lynch' would be difficult to justify without a racial overtone/impact, and would be disallowed. The very argument you make can be used in favor on allowing the term, as the gameplay usage divests it of a racial connotation in that context.

    Your attribution of a stance to the site is likewise incorrect. You are falsely attributing an extreme stance to the site to argue against, and that is incorrect, and also the literal definition of a straw man argument.

    We have also received no indication that this issue is as prevalent as you make it out to be. So far it does seem that other users are able to identify that the context of the game term is separate from racial connotations.

    For reference, this debate here, seems to agree with this overall sentiment:

    In addition, even wikipedia does not refer to lynching as a racially charged word. While it explicitly and up front states that lynching of African Americans was common and prevalent, it also shows that lynching has connotations and prevalence across the entire world:
    That said, wikipedia DID however also tag lynching as part of their series on discrimination, which does show the word to be racially charged.

    Quote from FlossedBeaver »
    Also: the very top of the Mafia forum still says Hang 'em high! That's just flagrantly tone-deaf. So... yeah, you don't get to use context as an excuse for this one anyways.

    I will look into this.

    Quote from FlossedBeaver »
    The phase out has arguably stalled; the community decided well before I came along to stop using 'lynch,' and I've been patiently championing its removal since late September. How much time is too much time to stop using a single word? Is it more than 4 months? Because that's where we stand right now, at a minimum.

    This is something to look into. I will admit that we have not discussed what the ideal timeline would be within the staff, and this does seem to be an important piece of information in order to determine what the timeline would look like.

    Quote from FlossedBeaver »
    What do you consider bad faith? Various forum members still have it in their sig; they refuse to edit it from their posts, and actively exclude people from their games who take issue with the word. I've been cussed out and threatened - in private - by a forum member I assumed was mature enough to at least engage in civil discourse on the matter, in a place where such discourse was both welcome and expected. Despite numerous reports, that player has not removed the word from their sig block. Good faith would be intervention from the moderation staff - mods with no conflicts of interest on the matter - in response to such reports; good faith would be said player following moderator requests to that effect.

    There will always be individuals who, for one reason or another, are resistant to change. Ideally, once the general Mafia group has accepted and transitioned on, we would start to officially send reminders and warnings, and eventually infractions to stop using the term. The mod staff will discuss what an ideal timeline should be.

    Quote from FlossedBeaver »
    The point is not yet moot, but if it will be soon that's all the more reason for the site owners and mod staff to act now. It's less a matter of 'if' than 'when,' insofar as the Mafia community's imminent departure from this site is concerned, so as a practical matter you have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain by officially disavowing racist language at this juncture. Perhaps here, when continued ad viewership is no longer a consideration, you can finally bring yourself to do the right thing.

    What, precisely, is there to gain? What I see is an action that will have no discernable impact, short of being a position of spite on the way out the door.

    When/(if) the Mafia community leaves, I would personally prefer to simply move on from it, and archive the forums. With the Mafia forum gone, this resolves the issue, as there would no longer be a context for the use of the word 'lynch,' and we would be able to unilaterally make it unacceptable. Should users wish to reopen a Mafia forum in the future then, we would be able to do so with a fresh start, and caveat the term as unacceptable from the very beginning. This seems a much more practical solution.

    I find it fascinating that its such a "important" goal to hunt down people for a single word and make demands to them to edit their signature and delete posts or re-edit posts long in the past just because someone suddenly decided that a word is for whatever reason not welcome anymore.

    You can bet that the vast vast majority have no ill intentions what so ever, so the words themselves dont hurt anybody and they are also have no means to hurt anybody , and frankly, the vast majority of people wont care at all if they read "lynch" or any other words, they accept its a game with its own rules and flavor.

    Anybody can feel offended by basically anything, its absolutely impossible to create a space in which everyone is welcome to the fullest extend and anybody is protected by being offended ... thats not a possible end scenario ... the only thing that is possible, is to create a space that fits your very own personal guidelines of what you want to accept and what you dont want to accept.

    I need to address a few things here:
    1. Just because a person or group of people do NOT find something offensive, does not mean that it is not offensive.
    2. 'Lynch' is a term with racial connotations within the United States.
    3. People are still threatened with lynching in the United States, and these acts ARE hate crimes, and ARE racially charge. Though ultimately found to be a case of misunderstanding, the NASCAR incident this past year shows that a noose IS problematic, that intentionally putting a noose IS a hatecrime, and also showed the support of many people coming together who realized this.
    4. Words absolutely CAN hurt people.
    5. There is a line that needs to be drawn, and generally speaking that line would get drawn between where an individual gets offended, and where something is an recognized offence to a larger group of people as a whole.

    I suggest you look over the history of lynching to better understand FB's position and stance:

    Furthermore, as stated above even Wikipedia includes their article on lynching as part of their series on discrimination. See the right hand bar. This further shows that the term is racially charged.

    Quote from FlossedBeaver »
    It's a sure sign that you're on the wrong side of history, bob, when the alt-right comes out to voice their support of your policy.

    Calling someone alt-right was uncalled for FB, and comes awfully close to a personal attack.
    Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
  • posted a message on [RETIRED] [Admin] bobthefunny's Strategic Chalkboard

    First off, there's false equivalency here. The Mafia forum has already indicated a direction from moving away from the term 'lynch' which is the term you are objecting to. Secondly, there is the matter of context, usage, and history involved; as well as the cultural implications in areas which are not the United States, which you seem to be repeatedly ignoring.

    What we have here is not a group deciding what is and is not racist, it is the understanding that the term has been used in a separate context with a different meaning. They have accepted that the term has charged usage outside of their context, and have made indications towards moving towards different usages.

    Let me give you an alternate example, in the word "Retard." Retard is considered an pejorative and offensive word here on MTGS. We do not accept it as an insult, description, or even passing phrase. However, we also understand that the term holds history as a medical term, which though no longer widely acceptable even in that context, could hold legitimate usages. Despite the word having a legitimate context in medical history - the medical profession has moved onward and discontinued usage of the word due to the negative connotations, which came in from an outside context. However, that change occured over a period of time of phasing out the terminology.

    That is what is happening here. They have a word within their context and definition, have accepted there is a charged connotation, and are now in the process of phasing out their vocabulary. At this time, we are allowing this change and phasing to occur naturally. Should this natural phase out stall or not occur in good faith, we shall revisit the topic, but at this juncture we do not see any reason to assume any sort of bad faith.


    In any regard, this entire thing may soon be a moot point, so at current we are awaiting to see how this plays out.
    Posted in: Staff Helpdesks
  • posted a message on Should We Stay or Should We Go
    Hi guys, if you have drama from somewhere else, settle it there, not here. This beef does not have a place in this thread - this thread is for the discussion of the future of the Mafia group, and thereby the forums as they stand here. Not personal vendettas.
    Posted in: Mafia
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