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Magic Market Index for April 19, 2019
  • posted a message on Challenge: Break This Rule
    Yes, I got that - but you don't need to rule to do that.

    You don't need this rule to pull lands out of your deck at 1 per turn, in order to get Abundance to stack the deck, when Abundance already pulls lands out faster and better.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Challenge: Break This Rule
    The way this is worded, it could be used to prevent mill/decking (from your natural draw). If you somehow are behind on lands, and have an empty library, you can pay the 2 life to replace your draw to not deck. This still puts you on a 'clock,' but much less stringent.

    My biggest fear would be people intentionally building on light land, and counting on this rule to catch up, while drawing only gas when they actually want it. Even at a 2 land deficit requirement, there will be someone at the table ramping, and allowing them to possibly only miss a single turn land drop. It also allows much greedier keeps, such as Sol Ring, or Necropotence hands.

    Quote from DirkGently »
    could also draw all your lands then use abundance to stack your deck. Stuff like that.
    Abundance already does this? Why pay 2 life to replace your draw with a land search... when you could just cast Abundance to replace your draw with a land search?
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on What stories have stayed with you over the test of time?
    Quote from cryogen »
    Didn't you do something similar with Prototype Portal in my cube, except with Sol Rings? Or was this at Wildfire's house? I feel like I remember this.
    I don't recall this one specifically. I know RV got the prototype portal once, and put an artifact land on it?

    Quote from Jivanmukta »
    Story 2: Stigma lasher is a bad card and Oloro hates it.

    For those not on the inside joke - The mods played together, and I played a turn 2 Stigma Lasher while Jiv was playing Oloro, and apparently had no answers to it.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on is mono white actually that bad.
    Mono-white will likely not be taking too many competitive tables, outside of something like Sram cheerios, or something; but that's because Competitive is a whole different beast.

    That said, for regular EDH, mono white can absolutely be a blast. White has some weaknesses, but it's not hard to shore those up, and White has a huge host of strengths to play off of in order to make some one-sided options. White has a strong set of removals, from excellent single-target Creature, Artifact and Enchantment removal, and mass removal of Creatures, Artifacts, and Enchantments as well. White also has mass land removal, but many groups may frown upon that. White also has a strong set of protection spells to contribute to fighting on the stack, and even some (very) limited counter magic. White also has excellent access to Equipment tutoring, which can shore up some weaknesses quite handily. White also has absolutely insane recursion potential as well, of almost any permanent type. Playing Mono-White also has some hilarious anti-multicolor tech, such as Ravnica at War, and Renounce the Guilds, which can be quite valuable plays.

    Your main issues will be ramp and card draw, but both of these are easily overcome. My heliod deck will often times outramp even some green players, though this speaks more to my dedication to ramp. Obviously green players who dedicate to ramp will far outpace you, but White (and any color, thanks to colorless options) can generally hold its own.

    Equipment: White can use cards like Stoneforge Mystic and Relic Seeker to grab Sword of the Animist and Skullclamp to offset some of the Ramp/Draw issues. If mystic is outside your pricepoint, or depending on your commitment to equipment, Several other options exist. Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of Feast and Famine can also shore up the draw/ramp in a pinch as well.


    For ramp, some white-specific options also include: Boreas Charger, Knight of the White Orchid and Kor Cartographer, which play well with Blink Effects, or with Resurection effects. You also have Legion's Landing, which at worst can be a sort of White rampant growth.

    Some of my favored colorless options of ramp include Rings of Brighthearth with fetchlands, as fetches also pair well with Sun Titan and Crucible of Worlds. Thawing Glaciers also pairs well with Rings, and also with Deserted Temple, though be careful there as Deserted Temple and Rings can go infinite with a land that produces enough mana, such as Nykthos or Serra's Sanctum.

    Burnished Hart goes well with Gift of Immortality, and also gets reclaimed by Sun Titan. Solemn is a solid add as well. From there, a few mana rocks should set you up well.

    Card Draw:

    Card draw will often be limited to Artifact and Colorless sources, but there are a few good white options, such as Mentor of the Meek and Bygone Bishop. Dawn of Hope is a new one I'm trying out, and Inheritance, while mana-hungry, can be potent.

    From there, I've generally liked Endbringer as a useful utility creature for card draw and other stuff, while Mind's Eye and other generic artifacts can also do their thing. If you're really confidant about your mana base, you can also run the Kozilek pair.


    Where to even Begin? Sun Titan slots in well with most of the cheap sides of the ramp/draw packages, especially since he can bring back lands. I like to pair him with Mirrorpool, since you get to immediately bring it back. He also works well with Emeria, the sky ruin, as many others have said. Emeria Shepherd is all sorts of crazy bonkers, if you hold onto it well. I've also liked Marshall's Anthem as a way to recover post-wipe. Angel of Serenity has also been recommended to me, and despite being high cost has served as a powerful multi-utility card. Multiple cards exist to recover artifacts, creatures, and enchantments, in single or in mass. I personally am a fan of Salvage Scout, since mono color decks run a lot of artifacts, and he is quickly returned by Sun Titan, or Sword of Light and Shadow (which is fetched by the equipment package...). Restoration Specialist is a new potential addition as well. Certain powerful spells, like Rally the Ancestors can provide a potent surprise as well, especially as you return some of your other recursion pieces to bring stuff back permanently, and use a sac outlet to not lose yours, or use blink effects/Teferi's protection in response to the delayed trigger... etc.

    In the lands section, I like to add Buried Ruin, and even sometimes Haunted Fengraf. Don't forget Mistveil Plains as an option, especially if it feeds back into a tutor loop.

    In short, White has a lot of recursion options that feed into each other and protect each other piece, while also having the capability to tutor/fetch multiple pieces of it.


    White has plenty, so I'm just going to list my favorites:
    Single Creature: Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile. Dispatch, Crib Swap, Declaration in stone.
    Single Artifact/Enchantment: Return to Dust, Banishing Stroke
    Attack Deterence: Wing Shards, Dispense Justice, Settle the Wreckage
    Mass: Rout, Tragic Arrogance, Hour of Revelation, Hallowed Burial, Akroma's Venceance, Austere Command, Descend upon the Sinful
    Mass Enchantment/Artifact: (of those not included above) Patrician's Scorn.
    Colorless: All is Dust, Oblivion Stone, Ugin. (stone can be recured, Other two, you likely have more artifacts/colorless than most).
    Grave Hate: Hallowed Moonlight, Rest in Peace, Containtment Priest, Scavenger Grounds, Angel of Serenity, Stone Cloaker.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Razaketh, the foulblooded
    I have gotten very tired of seeing Razaketh, the foulblooded. Maintaining a few tokens is not difficult, and even maintaining several handfuls is trivial in this kind of format. The lack of mana cost on his ability means that even with no other mana sources, you can drop him ASAP and sculpt your hand for just a few life. This kind of card advantage feels very reminiscent of Griselbrand and Yawgmoth's Bargain. The life cost is steeper, but you also get to activate it less, since you are tutoring for exactly the cards you need, and don't have to worry about dead draws.

    I'm curious to other people's thoughts and impressions though:
    • Is the creature sacrifice enough of a drawback to make it a reasonable ability?
    • Is his high cost enough to push him into 'safe' territory?
    • What are the general reactions when he drops?
    • How much value does he typically get? Does he win/end games?
    • Is he exciting?
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Food Chain
    My general thoughts on Food Chain is that it isn't a card that gets 'accidentally' broken/abused. It doesn't do anything super terribad when used fairly, or even moderately, and if you're combo-ing off with it - you know exactly what you're doing. Even the most obvious uses, such as those creatures you can cast from exile - if you add that pair into your deck, you know exactly what you're doing, and what the expected result is. There's no surprises.

    To that end, it's not really any worse than most other infinite mana combos, or which there are many.

    If you add it into your deck, you know that whether it's there to be a quirky ramp card, or if it's there to be an infinite combo - there's not much middle ground. And if you add it as an infinite combo, there's no "oops" situation there - you know full well it will infinite, and by that point, you should know exactly where your playgroup stands on such matters.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on What stories have stayed with you over the test of time?
    Quote from LouCypher »
    That one time where I aimed my Emrakul, the Promised End's ability at the Karametra, God of Harvests player who had been exploding onto the board. He had a Panharmonicon, among other things.

    I move to his side of the table, examine his hand and the field and formulate a plan in my mind. That plan went out of the window as I drew Tooth and Nail. Casting it entwined, grabbing Avenger of Zendikar and Regal Force, causing him to deck out due to the double tokens followed by double Force draw. Calmly handed him his cards back and went to sit back down while he just looked at me going "You can't do that..."

    Way back when, there was one player who ran a mindslaver - no lock, no recursion or anything. Just a literal one shot effect to mess with a boardstate. Coincidentally, 3 times in a row that he aimed it at my Nemata deck, I had a Chain of Acid in hand. He was kind enough to leave me my lands, but that was it.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from Weebo »
    Probably not an interesting data point for the wider format because I don't think anyone would be actively trying to break them, but we'll see.

    TBH, that's probably the best data point then.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What stories have stayed with you over the test of time?
    We've all seen the crazy plays thread, or gotten to brag about a cool winning board state... But a lot of these flash in the can moments can simply vanish into the obscurity without really being memorable. Your big creature finish might just vanish into obscurity with other similar overrun stories.

    What moments are truly memorable to you?

    Here are a few of mine to get things started:

    • I was playing Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient. This was early in construction, so I was often taking votes on cards to add/remove. One player voted in The Hive. In the subsequent game, I managed to cast The Hive, and thanks to Bludgeon Brawl equipped the hive onto its own wasp token, and beat people up with a wasp bludgeoning people with it's own hive.
    • Another Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient game, I managed to put a Gauntlet of Might onto a Prototype Portal, but unfortunately had no cards in hand, so was unable to do anything with my massive amounts of mana, except make more and more Gauntlet of Might tokens. Finally, about 17 Gauntlets of Might later I drew a Power Matrix, and was able to start one-shotting people with a very scary commander.
    • Finally, the most infamous one was me piloting my Chainer, Dementia Master deck, and having a very rough time, getting beat down by pretty much everybody. Down to 5 life, with no cards in hand, an opponent decides to take pity and spare me going "I'll give him one more turn, what's the worst that could happen?" One lucky topdeck, and and I rebuild an insane board presence, drain everyone for 20+ life, (but fail to kill anyone), and it takes all 3 players conspiring together to make a Commander large enough and unblockable to kill me. Since then "One more turn, what's the worst that could happen" has become a lasting catch-phrase at my LGS, for several years now.

    So what are YOUR truly lasting memorable stories?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Found my commander but can't make a deck around them.
    A fairy tribal deck sounds interesting and I think a token/milling deck would be the most fun for me personally. I also like to stop others peoples threats rather then pillow forting.

    To me, this sounds like you want to start more casual - you can always increase power far more easily. You may also want to go more token-build, with various anthems or ways to use creatures entering the battlefield, while avoiding infinite combos.

    Dire Undercurrents is an immediate first thought for me, though the discard half might be a bit brutal. Kindred Discovery does much the same for you as well, though would be specific to a more tribal route. Bident of Thassa and Coastal Piracy seem like good token strategy cards for card draw. Of course, skullclamp will always be an allstar.

    Favorable Winds, Grand Architect, Gauntlet of Power, Caged Sun, etc, can make for good lord effects.

    Of course, you'll want a bit of redundancy with your commander for token generation in case your Commander gets removed a few times. Talrand, Sky summoner, Docent of Perfection, Bloodline Keeper, Cemetery Reaper, etc, can help make some tokens.

    You'll want some mana ramp, and I find that Sword of the animist, Burnished Hart, and mana rocks can make a decent start.

    Personally, I'm a fan of Salvaging Station, and the tokens you'll be producing can make some excellent fuel for the station. Blue/Black is an excellent color combination for it, with plenty of tutors such as Artificer's Intuition. Be aware that the Salvaging Station package can usually take up to 10 card slots from you, though each can be individually useful.

    You could also go Blood Artist style routes, but I personally would be more iffy of those, as they can lead to un-interactive styles - As a sub theme, it could be a potent alternate win though - to make sure you'll have options.

    Removal will be primarily in black, though Blue can offer things like Curse of the Swine. Artifacts and enchantments will be an issue, so you may need some colorless options like Scour from existence.

    I don't want to go too far into building a deck - but my initial thoughts personally take it in a very artifact-centric token direction, and looks like this, take from it what you like:
    Some parts will obviously need to be removed, or changed, such as Talrand or Metallurgic Summongings if the decks ends up spell light, or Sai, if it ends up artifact light - Those probably offer a choice of a split in how you want to build your deck.

    OonaMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    6 Oona, Queen of the Fae

    1 Chromatic Sphere
    1 Chromatic Star
    1 Conjurer's Bauble
    1 Wayfarer's Bauble
    1 Executioner's Capsule
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Scrabbling Claws
    1 Phyrexian furnace
    1 Universal Solvent
    1 Skullclamp
    2 Sword of the Animist
    2 Spawning Pit
    2 Thaumatic Compass
    3 Proteus Staff
    4 Bident of Thassa
    5 Gauntlet of Power
    6 Caged Sun
    6 Salvaging Station
    7 Summoning Station
    7 Spine of Ish Sah

    Mana Rocks
    1 Sol Ring
    2 Mind Stone
    2 Felwar Stone
    2 Dimir Signet
    3 Commander's Sphere
    3 worn powerstone
    3 Darksteel Ingot

    2 Nezumi Graverobber
    2 Oona's Blackguard
    3 Burnished Hart
    3 Sai, Master Thopterist
    3 Trinket Mage
    3 Trophy Mage
    3 Treasure Mage
    3 Chasm Skulker
    3 Grand Architect
    3 Thief of Sanity
    3 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
    4 Solemn simulacrum
    4 Talrand, Sky Summoner
    4 Bloodline Keeper
    4 Faerie Artisans
    4 Golden Guardian
    4 Orc Sureshot
    5 havengul Lich
    6 Grave Titan
    6 Frost Titan
    7 Abhorrent Overlord

    1 Undying Evil
    1 Supernatural stamina
    2 Cyclonic Rift
    3 Murder
    4 Silence the Believers
    4 Memory Plunder
    7 Scour from Existence

    3 Mnemonic Betrayal
    4 Mutilate - deals with indestructible
    9 Connive/Concoct
    2x Black Sun's Zenith
    2x Curse of the Swine

    2 Artificer's Intuition
    2 Favorable Winds
    2 Search for Azcanta
    4 Death Pit Offering
    5 Coastal Piracy
    5 Dire Undercurrents
    5 Metallurgic Summonings

    5 Tezzeret the seeker
    5 Tezzeret, Artifice Master
    6 Tezzeret, Master of Metal
    6 Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge
    6 Vraska, Scheming Gorgon

    0 Bojuka Bog
    0 Scavenger Ground
    0 Buried Ruin
    0 Seat of the Synod
    0 Vault of Whispers
    0 Darksteel Citadel

    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [Offtopic] Community Thread
    Quote from cryogen »
    Between the cacophony that is the planeswalkers as generals thread and the critical mass we are about to get, I'm thinking about how I can fill my cube with enough of them to justify making a house rule that you can draft them as your general.
    I think this could be an interesting experiment to try out for a while. Don't know how I'd feel about a permanent thing... but... I'd be willing to try.

    Quote from cryogen »
    Well I took my wife and daughters to a farming supply store to look at baby chicks and ducklings because why not. Me being the naive dad I am didnt think anything of it. Needless to say, we own chickens now.
    That's funny. My sister has chickens. First she got 6 chicks, but 4 were roosters, so she had to give them away, and had only 2. So she got some more... long story short, there are currently 10 chickens, 2 of which are roosters and will need to go, and another 6 chicks that just hatched.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on When your deck is perfect and you realize it is terribly unfun for opponents
    This is actually a common occurrence. You start building a deck around a cool idea, then you focus and tune it as you go. Eventually, you find that you've tuned it too far now, and it's simply too one-sided, or too focused. At this point, it can be hard to "downgrade" or even take apart the deck, because of the pride you have in the creation - EDH decks can be very personalized, and have a lot of intrinsic Identity.

    This has happened to me with several decks, including Nemata, Chainer, Trostani, etc.

    Quote from Dunharrow »
    So what do you do when this happens?

    Often times, this for me is a cue to build a new deck, and start the process over again. This allows me to start a new path to start the process over again, and redo a lot of that exciting discovery, and end up with a new creation to be proud of.

    In some cases, this may mean taking apart and reinventing a deck or theme. My Cromat deck (first deck) I rebuilt multiple times across different themes, before it was fully retired - though Cromat himself is sitting in my prefered pile, waiting to be rebuilt some day. Tibor and Lumia have likewise been rebuilt across multiple themes, and though I still have the deck together, it hasn't been updated in years, as current options have far outclassed them.

    Other decks, such as Chainer and Trostani, I still keep together, and even lightly update them - but play them much more rarely. I carry a large number of decks with me (13 currently), so I can always adapt to the table's power. If I feel like pulling those decks again I ask if anyone would want to play a more 'evil' game, or a more tuned game, or might even request certain decks from other people - My brother's Glissa deck has a lot of graveyard removal, and I find it makes for a fun game against my Chainer deck.

    Sometimes, I reserve certain slots in decks for "fun cards." Sandwurm Convergence isn't a powerful card, and is stupid expensive, but is one of several 'fun slots' that I've put into Trostani that are intended to be un-optimized.

    Quote from papa_funk »
    Not running a card because you wouldn't have fun with it is the most important reason not to run a card.

    Finally, one thing you can do is gauge reactions to certain cards, and whether they are meeting your expectations for a fun game. For me, certain cards have been cut from my decks, such as Torment of Hailfire. On paper, I was excited to try Torment, because it seemed to make for interesting decisions or be an interesting wrath type effect. In practice though, it's simply a kill spell that you crank enough into X that they can't outclass it, or an underwhelming impact spell in desperation. Every time it's been played, it's always been a bit of a deflation of the intrigue and interest of the game. Anti-climactic. Other cards that have made my list are Craterhoof Behemoth, Seedborn Muse (came off the list during Prophet of Kruphix times, but is now back on), Prophet (when legal), Vicious Shadows, Parallax Wave, etc.

    Not all cards will be met with happiness and joy - some cards, such as counterspells and wraths are intended to impede or negate - but balancing how much is important as well. A few counterspells are healthy, but if you are doing a Forbid lock, or Familiar's Ruse + E.Witness, or Mystic Snake blinks... Well, that can get oppressive rather quickly and it might be a good idea to scale back part of the combo.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Bolas's Citadel
    Quote from darrenhabib »
    You can go infinite with Sensei's Divining Top and Aetherflux Reservoir.
    I mean... you WILL deck yourself... theoretically, everyone else should be dead long before that happens - but it's something to be aware of if your deck is low.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card Discussion
    I am all sorts of excited for Massacre Girl. Stuff is gonna die.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Barren Glory
    Quote from MRdown2urth »
    Does Evangelize get through hexproof...since the opponent is targeting the creature?
    Nope. It's still your spell. Kind of the Reverse of Diaochan, where your opponent chooses the target, but can still target your hexproof stuff, because it's your ability.


    I always have an intrigue for one sided fogs, but have never gotten around to building a deck that can use them well. I've mostly stuck to repeatable effects so far, or Sunforger options.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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