It recently jumped on TCGPlayer from $8 to $18, and now the TCG Mid is $32. But why? It seems like such a janky EDH card. Was there a buyout? If so, it's a pretty bad buyout because there are still copies on eBay for $10 to $12.
I'm not really sure what my critical turn is. The way I play the deck varies depending on who I'm playing with, y'know? Often I'm not just trying to close the game out as soon as possible so it's hard to tell.
Two things. A) I hadn't even heard of those cards, so thanks! B) I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about rituals, to be honest. I typed out above that rituals are good for accelerating from the early game into the midgame by powering out some sort of engine or critical card, but now that I think about it, the only card that does that well is Dark Ritual. Cabal Ritual will only ever net 1 mana in the early game, and I don't have many early drops to sacrifice to Culling the Weak, leaving it a dead card too often. Along the same token, those two cards you suggested also are only effective past a certain point in the game, and I'm trying to decide if that's what the deck really wants or not. They could end up being fantastic, but I'm thinking more along the lines of cutting Culling the Weak entirely.
If it's really useful for the deck to be able to accelerate from the midgame to a winning state, then I'd definitely add your suggestions, but I feel as though the deck has enough trouble going from the early game to the midgame. See: Jet Medallion in the maybeboard. If you have any suggestions on similar cards, preferably ones that produce black mana (ie. Leaden Myr > Mind Stone), then go for it.
Balthor is the best monoblack Commander. No contest.
That's quite a statement, isn't it? But I frequently see others go on and on about cards like , , and even , even though these other options available feel neutered compared to Balthor. Balthor never even enters conversation, and it's because of this that I'm making this thread. Spread Balthor awareness!
What is this deck?
This deck is first and foremost a graveyard deck. It is very susceptible to graveyard hate, and probably wouldn't hold up in a very competitive meta. Not over-committing to the board (graveyard) is an important tool, though, and most of your average players don't think to pack answers to this kind of deck, so the deck isn't as weak as it may seem at first. I personally have had trouble settling into a specific meta due to moving around, so I mainly use this deck as my 'traveling around, playing with random people' deck, and I've never thought to myself, 'damn, I wish I wasn't playing a graveyard deck.' Results may vary, though.
This deck is a blink deck. Instead of exiling, then returning to the battlefield, it instead sacrifices the creatures and reanimates them. The reason I'm saying blink instead of reanimation is that creatures usually spend very little time in the graveyard. They often return to the battlefield the turn they die, and often multiple times in a turn. It's much more instantaneous compared to your average reanimator deck.
This deck is a combo deck. I hate calling it that, because I want this to be as new player friendly as possible. I've even specifically omitted cards like , , and various actual degenerate/infinite combos ( et al.) in an attempt to not cause groans from the table. But no matter what I do, when this deck wants to win, it will play out like Eggs. It plays cards for value, produces mana, sacrifices said cards, brings everything back, and does it again, hopefully draining your opponents along the way to win. It doesn't go infinite, but if you want to win that way, you're going to end up goldfishing.
That being said, I feel as though this deck is flexible. You don't necessarily have to force yourself into winning as fast as possible in that way. You can win through damage, too! You can win through the value of your creatures, and your numerous ETB/LTB effects.
This deck is very mana hungry. You'll notice an abundance of nonland mana producers, and while they may seem superfluous (especially the rituals), they are completely necessary. The deck runs a lot of cards that cost five or greater, and without acceleration, you'll end up doing nothing at the start of the game. The tempo that a provides, the fact that it might accelerate you into the midgame by powering out an integral card to your game, is invaluable.
This deck eats life like no tomorrow. Life is just another resource, though, and you have cards like Grey Merchant and to recoup this life loss.
This deck is difficult to play. Figuring out how to use your mana efficiently is a tricky task when you're using your graveyard as a resource. Knowing what to tutor for, and how to win from X boardstate is something I'm still learning how to do.
Early game: The deck doesn't have many ways to meaningfully affect the board in the first 1-4 turns. Its impact comes in the mid/late game, and to accommodate for that, the deck runs an obscene amount of ramp. I personally feel as though all EDH decks should ramp like this, because ramp is an extremely powerful tool, but if any deck needs it, it's this one. You generally want to build up your mana until you can power out something that draws you cards. With some draw engines, you may need a token engine as well, but with tutors it's generally not that hard to assemble some way to dump mana and life to make card advantage.
Mid game: The mid game and the end game are practically the same for this deck. Once you have mana and a way to generate card advantage, you'll end up accidentally assembling a combination of cards that put you way, way ahead. Here are some examples:
Skirge Familiar + a card advantage engine [Harvester of Souls | Dark Prophecy | Grim Haruspex | Disciple of Bolas + a large creature] + a sacrifice outlet. Say you have 10 mana, and 4 cards in hand. You cast Balthor, bringing back this combination of cards, and a total of 6 creatures. You can then sac your board, draw 5 cards, pitch your hand to Skirge, sac Skirge, and cast Balthor with the 9 mana you generated. It's expected that you pitched creatures in the 9 cards you discarded, so you'll end up generating even more mana. Granted, you might have drawn a ritual or permanent that nets mana, you might pitch something that produces creatures or you might discard another source of card advantage. Any of these allows you to increase your resources and loop additional times, which will eventually have you find a win condition and end the game.
Token Producer [Abhorrent Overlord | Pawn of Ulamog | Ogre Slumlord | Genesis Chamber] + Mana Producer [Phyrexian Altar | Carnival of Souls] + Sacrifice Outlet + SOMETHING that advances the game when creatures die and ETB. With 5 creatures, your token generator will produce anywhere from 5-10 tokens, which will produce anything from 5-15 mana plus an additional 5 mana from the original creatures. With this mana - all from a single loop - you'll be able to fuel additional Balthor loops, and if you have some way to draw cards, fill your graveyard, or drain life, you win in 1-3 loops.
Living Death + Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed. If you have something similar to the above scenarios on your field, but you don't have a way of generating enough mana to keep up with Balthor's increasing Commander tax, or even if Balthor gets tucked, this combination of cards acts as a 5 mana Balthor that stays 5 mana. As long as you can generate 5 mana with your creatures, you can go infinite.
I hear people saying REALLY good things about it for Modern, so I figure it might spike even more if it sees a ton of play at a big upcoming Modern event.
I've heard varying opinions, from 5C is vaguely possible, to 5C is a viable strategy because of how much fixing there is, to 5C is the best strategy because people tend to gravitate towards clans specifically and pass a ton of good cards just because they're too scared to branch over.
My question though, is when during a draft do you lock into 5C? How do you approach the draft in the first few picks, and what has to happen for you to switch gears entirely?
I've been using some draft simulators (it's the best I've got!), and I've opened many 'good' three color cards (eg. the prerelease rares) with 'good' commons and uncommons that are monocolor.
I've never played Alara limited, so I'm struggling to figure out whether or not committing to three colors is the correct play or not. Do I pick the Sage of the Inward Eye and cut Jeskai hard, or do I stay open and wait for a strong signal that a clan is open in picks 3+ and move in?
It's a narrow market, but I need a Force to put into EDH decks and I'm sure there are others like me. I would definitely be interested if I had the cash right now.
I did a draft today which was a bit of a rollercoaster of good and bad.
My laptop has a bit of a wireless issue. It's old, and every now and then the wireless capabilities just shut off, and the only way to fix it is to reboot it. So, it's P1P1, I see Cone of Flame, and I'm happy... it immediately does the thing, and I scramble to restart my laptop, cursing about how I wasted my money. I come back to see, instead of Cone of Flame: Elvish Mystic, Titanic Growth, and Dauntless Missionaries. Not great, but not horrible either. I'm still kinda bummed.
And then I proceed to open Garruk in P2, and Foil Nissa in P3...with a Chord of Calling for the person beside me.
AND THEN, as I'm building my deck, I finish with 1-2 minutes to spare, and it gives me that dreaded error that forces you to restart the client because the deck was not submitted. I rush to do so, but when I come back, the timer is at 0:00 and the deck isn't built. The deck gets submitted with 81 cards. I feel shady asking for reimbursement with my pulls but I really have to. I lost multiple G1s with an 81 card deck.
I used to run this deck, and I used to post in the threads of jmdt and BlackVise and that whole clique of monoblack graveyard players, but I disassembled the deck because I have a history of having a very hard time sticking with a single deck. Because of Theros, I've now reassembled it because of a few really busted cards in the set that I really wanted to play with. I've tried my best to keep the deck as fair as possible; I've taken out Contamination and Infernal Darkness, and I don't run any infinite combo even though I could easily build around Triskelion and Necrotic Ooze and whatever else. The most offensive thing in the deck is Mindslicer, and I've considered cutting that too.
The issue is, though, that this deck plays out like a combo deck regardless. This build of Balthor is like the Eggs of EDH; it doesn't go infinite, but instead wins through looping through sacrificing and recurring creatures. I don't want to irritate players when I play this deck, but from playtest experience, the most optimal play is usually one that wins quickly and abruptly. I've tried to add cards like Sepulchral Primordial and Puppeteer Clique and Mogis's Marauder to try and support an alternate win-condition of just beating down, but it hasn't really helped.
Is there a way I can still capitalize on the power level of Balthor without making it unfun for other players?
Note: rituals are something I'm trying out on the suggestion of a friend whose opinion I value highly. Their use is similar to the use of Dark Rituals in the old Suicide Black decks - as a tempo gain. I'm not exactly sure of them myself, but I'm not cutting them until I can try them out, FYI.
I plan on doing a write-up on each card eventually, but until then, thanks for looking. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Try playing online via MTGO or Trice. People expect turns to take a little longer due to the fact of lag, so it gives some flexibility on turn time, and can let you learn your deck better in real play scenarios.
I don't have it in paper yet; the first game I played WAS on Trice, and I ended up butting heads with some friends of mine. I bet it would be even worse with strangers. I really just... suck at making decisions.
So, I finished building a Karador deck I've been working on today, but I'm having some issues. I essentially built the deck to be Saffi Eriksdotter + black, so you've got your typical suite of ETB effects, sac outlets, and recursion. Additionally, the deck runs tutors; not just regular tutors, but unconventional tutors like Wild Pair, and Birthing Pod. Like the Modern deck with the same name, this deck has a ton of decision trees, and when I tried playing it today, I spent 5-10 minutes per turn because I had no idea what the optimal play was.
What would be the best way to learn how to play the deck? I know I need practice, but I don't want to bother my opponents through slow play. Goldfishing could work, but how do I simulate all the kinds of scenarios I'd face in a real game?
Thoughts?
EDIT: Rings of Brighthearth
Looking for a cut for Genesis Chamber. Thanks!
Thanks anyway, though, d0su.
Any other cuts for some things in my maybeboard would be a-ok.
I'm not really sure what my critical turn is. The way I play the deck varies depending on who I'm playing with, y'know? Often I'm not just trying to close the game out as soon as possible so it's hard to tell.
Two things. A) I hadn't even heard of those cards, so thanks! B) I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about rituals, to be honest. I typed out above that rituals are good for accelerating from the early game into the midgame by powering out some sort of engine or critical card, but now that I think about it, the only card that does that well is Dark Ritual. Cabal Ritual will only ever net 1 mana in the early game, and I don't have many early drops to sacrifice to Culling the Weak, leaving it a dead card too often. Along the same token, those two cards you suggested also are only effective past a certain point in the game, and I'm trying to decide if that's what the deck really wants or not. They could end up being fantastic, but I'm thinking more along the lines of cutting Culling the Weak entirely.
If it's really useful for the deck to be able to accelerate from the midgame to a winning state, then I'd definitely add your suggestions, but I feel as though the deck has enough trouble going from the early game to the midgame. See: Jet Medallion in the maybeboard. If you have any suggestions on similar cards, preferably ones that produce black mana (ie. Leaden Myr > Mind Stone), then go for it.
That's quite a statement, isn't it? But I frequently see others go on and on about cards like , , and even , even though these other options available feel neutered compared to Balthor. Balthor never even enters conversation, and it's because of this that I'm making this thread. Spread Balthor awareness!
What is this deck?
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1x Perilous Vault
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1x Dictate of
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1x Dictate of
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1x Perilous Vault
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1x Perilous Vault
1x Dictate of
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1x Grim Haruspex
I hear people saying REALLY good things about it for Modern, so I figure it might spike even more if it sees a ton of play at a big upcoming Modern event.
My question though, is when during a draft do you lock into 5C? How do you approach the draft in the first few picks, and what has to happen for you to switch gears entirely?
I've never played Alara limited, so I'm struggling to figure out whether or not committing to three colors is the correct play or not. Do I pick the Sage of the Inward Eye and cut Jeskai hard, or do I stay open and wait for a strong signal that a clan is open in picks 3+ and move in?
My laptop has a bit of a wireless issue. It's old, and every now and then the wireless capabilities just shut off, and the only way to fix it is to reboot it. So, it's P1P1, I see Cone of Flame, and I'm happy... it immediately does the thing, and I scramble to restart my laptop, cursing about how I wasted my money. I come back to see, instead of Cone of Flame: Elvish Mystic, Titanic Growth, and Dauntless Missionaries. Not great, but not horrible either. I'm still kinda bummed.
And then I proceed to open Garruk in P2, and Foil Nissa in P3...with a Chord of Calling for the person beside me.
AND THEN, as I'm building my deck, I finish with 1-2 minutes to spare, and it gives me that dreaded error that forces you to restart the client because the deck was not submitted. I rush to do so, but when I come back, the timer is at 0:00 and the deck isn't built. The deck gets submitted with 81 cards. I feel shady asking for reimbursement with my pulls but I really have to. I lost multiple G1s with an 81 card deck.
The issue is, though, that this deck plays out like a combo deck regardless. This build of Balthor is like the Eggs of EDH; it doesn't go infinite, but instead wins through looping through sacrificing and recurring creatures. I don't want to irritate players when I play this deck, but from playtest experience, the most optimal play is usually one that wins quickly and abruptly. I've tried to add cards like Sepulchral Primordial and Puppeteer Clique and Mogis's Marauder to try and support an alternate win-condition of just beating down, but it hasn't really helped.
Is there a way I can still capitalize on the power level of Balthor without making it unfun for other players?
1x Balthor the Defiled
Creature (25)
1x Abhorrent Overlord
1x Baleful Force
1x Blood Artist
1x Butcher of Malakir
1x Crypt Ghast
1x Disciple of Bolas
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Falkenrath Noble
1x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1x Harvester of Souls
1x Kagemaro, First to Suffer
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x Massacre Wurm
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Mindslicer
1x Mogis's Marauder
1x Nirkana Revenant
1x Pawn of Ulamog
1x Puppeteer Clique
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Sadistic Hypnotist
1x Sepulchral Primordial
1x Skirge Familiar
1x Viscera Seer
1x Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1x Attrition
1x Carnival of Souls
1x Dark Prophecy
1x Dictate of Erebos
1x Grave Pact
1x Necropotence
Artifact (17)
1x Altar of Dementia
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Caged Sun
1x Charcoal Diamond
1x Coldsteel Heart
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Extraplanar Lens
1x Gauntlet of Power
1x Grim Monolith
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Memory Jar
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Perilous Vault
1x Phyrexian Altar
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
Sorcery (10)
1x All Is Dust
1x Beseech the Queen
1x Buried Alive
1x Decree of Pain
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Exsanguinate
1x Living Death
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Cabal Ritual
1x Culling the Weak
1x Dark Ritual
1x Entomb
1x Necrologia
1x Vampiric Tutor
Land (35)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Crypt of Agadeem
1x High Market
1x Phyrexian Tower
27x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Volrath's Stronghold
Note: rituals are something I'm trying out on the suggestion of a friend whose opinion I value highly. Their use is similar to the use of Dark Rituals in the old Suicide Black decks - as a tempo gain. I'm not exactly sure of them myself, but I'm not cutting them until I can try them out, FYI.
I plan on doing a write-up on each card eventually, but until then, thanks for looking. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Loyal Retainers appears to be $70 on TCGPlayer but can be found easily for under $25 on eBay.
I don't have it in paper yet; the first game I played WAS on Trice, and I ended up butting heads with some friends of mine. I bet it would be even worse with strangers. I really just... suck at making decisions.
What would be the best way to learn how to play the deck? I know I need practice, but I don't want to bother my opponents through slow play. Goldfishing could work, but how do I simulate all the kinds of scenarios I'd face in a real game?
Thanks.