You literally just proved my point further.
"You can definitely always predict emotions and intent from text"
This is obviously sarcasm but you prove my point. You CANT interpret emotion or intent. So then why be sarcastic? Being sarcastic in text is so easily seen as condescending precisely because you CANT interpret emotion and intent.
And you even further prove my point by talking about ceaseless hunger. It doesnt matter what his insight is it matter how you react to his advice whether its bad or not. Sarcasm CAN and WILL be interpreted as condescending. You can agree as much as you want with him but youre wrong. Sarcasm has no place here where no one knows you, your intent or your emotion. It WILL be seen as condescending and rightfully so. Whwn someone asks for advice your useless sarcastic comments arent needed and dont advance the conversation.
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Sep 26, 20112
Riley posted a message on Captain Sisay Primer: The Legendary Duel Commander GuidePosted in: 1 vs 1 Commander
Welcome to the Pool Party!
Table of Contents
- Welcome to the Party!
- Deck History
- Cool Story, But is this Deck for Me?
- Sample Decks
- 20 HP Meta - Depths Combo
- Elfball (30 HP)
- Riley's New Deck List (Ramp Control)
- Riley's Old Deck List (Midrange Control)
- Merdock271's Deck List ("Biggest Zoo" Build)
- How to Win
- Card Choices Explained
- Matchups Against Competitive Generals
- Win Percentages
- Change Log
- Gratuitous Pictures of Sexy Legends
Captain Sisay is an infamous toolbox-style general, traditionally one of the strongest styles of generals in EDH because such generals can offer up a consistent gameplan. It's obvious why Zur, Arcum, and Scion of the Ur-Dragon strike fear into the hearts of EDH players.
But what happens when you bring those decks over to the Duel Commander (French) 1v1 meta? Do they all hold up? Where does Sisay stand?
It turns out that Sisay stands tall, backed by the strength of some of the best Legends that naturally shut down win-conditions and dominate games, but she has to make it to the mid-game to get there. Because of this, I play Sisay as a ramp-style control deck that benefits both from having strong Selesnya hate options and from having some of the best removal cards in Magic. She is geared and ready to fight any top deck.
If this sounds like something that would interest you, read on, fellow hater of fun—err, fellow Selesnya stalwart!
Deck History
Pre-Primer Thread: Ye Olden Days
Surging Chaos is the grandfather of Sisay combos. For years, he maintained a Sisay primer that adhered to the default ban list (and, later, the Salvation ban list) that was big mana and flashier than a pervert in Central Park. It was among the best decks in that meta and had performed very well in tournaments, a dominant force that inspired numerous Sisay players to always aim high and to go 110% in.
October 2011: Pardon My French
My deck began as an adaptation from a multiplayer Sisay list inspired heavily by Surging Chaos that would be smoothly ported to the French banlist. Few changes were required at first, as my playgroup had built a very fast and cutthroat meta, so my curve was already pretty optimally low.
This build was focused on playing the best, syngergized rampers in magic (elves) and getting quickly to Elesh Norn and Iona lockdowns and combos. This version of the deck curved a bit high but was able to get away with it--for the most part. I still maintained a bigger Legendary pool and hadn’t yet determined which Legends were worth keeping and which should be cut for more versatile cards.
Even though the deck was fresh, it had been discussed for months in Surging Choas’s old thread (and many of the combos were cut), and I decided to branch off to focus on the French ban list, creating this here thread in October, 2011.
November 2011 to February 2012: The “Can You Beat Edric?” Test
Edric was the new kid in town, and quickly made enemies of everyone around him. Every single deckbuilder now had to build with Edric in mind, which meant more spot removal, more sweepers, and lower overall curves. Sisay was no exception. Many dubious cards were considered to help make this matchup more fair (and begun playing even more elves), which diluted the power of the deck vs. other decks.
Slowly, the meta began to adjust, and every deck began running an increasing amount of removal of all varieties, and even r/x began to be played. This meant a lot more hate for Sisay and her elves and bears, so I began to make adjustments for way more shroud and protection effects while looking with more scrutiny at my more vulnerable creatures.
March 2012: Inspired by Maverick Legacy
G/W Maverick began to dominate in Legacy tournaments everywhere, and the lists helped me fine-tune Sisay so that I was running somewhat redundant copies of my ramp creatures, hate bears, protectors, beaters, and bombs. Interestingly, even Loyal Retainers and Elesh Norn topped a few lists, so I decided to put him back in to once again cheat out Norn.
I finally felt comfortable in the meta, able to contend and beat most aggro-control builds, but my matchups against big-mana and combo decks began to suffer. My win/loss record begun looking worse and worse.
April 2012: The Rise of Extinction Builds and the Splintering of Sisay
The Cockatrice meta was soon split halfway between aggro-control builds and decks designed to obliterate aggro-control builds. This often meant a 60/40 matchup against the former and an automatic game loss against the latter. Without counter backup or targeted discard, Sisay and other mid-range decks relying heavily on their general began to slide solidly into Tier B.
Despite sampling many new protection cards and trying to more securely layer shroud effects, mass removal kept Sisay solidly in that lower tier. Times were bad for our Selesnya hero.
May 2012: Top Tier Combo Decks are Top Tier for a Reason
Though the extinction builds were still a thorn in our side, there was also a rise in combo decks and big mana decks that simply outraced us and left themselves less vulnerable in the process. I reacted in two ways, first attempting to add more specific, meta-conscious cards that could combat certain popular combo decks, and second attempting to emulate those styles of decks with tricks of my own.
Slowly, the matchups began improving as tweaks were made and our win conditions made clearer, more consistent, but the deck still had much to learn.
June 2012: First Major Tournament Experience
I placed in the top 10 of a major Salvation tournament, despite squaring off against mostly extinction builds. Some experimental changes were made in order to outrace combo decks and be less vulnerable to creature kill, and these changes seemed to pay off. The deck seems to have been heading in the right direction.
September 2012: Sisay 2.0
Generie Peco placed in the top 8 of a major tournament running a list inspired by my mid-range control build in a developing meta with a lot of mid-range decks. Meanwhile, another major in-person tournament was dominated by big mana and extinction builds, mirroring what was happening on Cockatrice. I opined that my Sisay build would be obliterated in the latter setting.
So, once again, I sought to overhaul the deck, coming at it with fresh eyes and slashing away everything that didn’t contribute to our three win cons. Sisay 2.0 was born, almost a year after the launch of the French primer thread.
December 2012: Everything Old is New Again
After a revolutionary banning of Edric, red-based decks receded almost immediately and the number of pyroclasm, -2/-2 effects, and wrath cards all but disappeared in short order, thus allowing aggro and elf-based decks to exist again. With extinction builds almost themselves extinct, it became clear that running Rampant Growth effects over elves was no longer the optimal way to play Sisay in the meta, so I had to bring back many cards that were, for a long time, major liabilities.
With mana dorks back in the deck, we found our speed again and could finally once more take major advantage of Gaea's Cradle and reliably outramp nearly every other deck. But Edric's banning didn't just eventually allow creature-based decks to thrive again; white/blue control decks quickly began dominating tournaments in this slowed down meta. This meant, sadly, having to reevaluate some of our combos, recognizing that few if any could even resolve against many of the top tier decks. Good stuff began replacing narrow stuff, and the deck shifted focus to take full advantage of Cavern of Souls against control decks.
July 2013: The Stuff of Legends
With Wizards changing the official Legend rule to allow multiple copies of Legends to exist on either side of the field and for the option to play two Legends yourself and keep one, Sisay gained a solid boost in power. U/W/X decks began dropping clone effects now that they no longer killed, and we found a surprisingly easy to assemble combo in Thespian Stage and Dark Depths, both pieces of which are easiest to tutor out in Sisay. Couple this with the fact that the combo is nearly impossible to stop short of Stifle, the deck gained another powerful early "oops I win" condition.
February 2014: The New Gods
The meta changed drastically with the introduction of indestructible gods with relevant abilities. Not only that, but late 2013 would also bring on some extremely viable new decks with Commander 2013. But wait, there's more: Loyal Retainers became banned, all but taking away one of our combos. Nevertheless, some smart bans later on started to make the meta extremely diverse, and it began to make sense to play combo as one of many competitive archetypes in a format increasingly balanced by aggro. Sisay retooled to remove some of the more specific hate cards from previously threatening top decks and instead focus more on winning rather than hosing, creating an overall more consistently threatening deck.
December 2015: The Shell Game
After many many months of observing and obsessing over statistics of cards played in the most well-attended DC tournaments, I revisited the deck with a fresh perspective, no longer married to the niche cards I'd been championing for years. Per the wise advice of many Sisay players before me, the deck saw the biggest transformation ever in a single update, swapping nearly 2 dozen cards out to make room for the essential Elfball suite of cards. This meant more heavily embracing the green side of the deck, all but taking out all removal cards. Using a proven competitive shell while still leveraging what makes Sisay unique (mainly, easier access to Norn, Teeg, and Jitte), the deck's consistency and threat factor improved by a larger margin than ever before. All combos were removed, Planeswalkers were finally embraced, and the majority of enchantments and sorceries became creatures.
June 2016: The Aftermath of the Elfball Nerf
Shortly after participating in a global Cockatrice-hosted tournament with over 50 combatants and placing in the top 8, one of the most impactful rounds of bannings ever took place. Yisan and Titania were quickly becoming the unbeatable go-to deck, made all the more explosive by Gaea's Cradle. Yisan was banned as a commander and Gaea's Cradle also got the axe. This violently shook the very core of Sisay (whose optimal line of play would almost always have a turn 4 Cradle into a turn 5-to-6 win), so the deck itself had to shift in a major way. Though the risk of being blown out increased, the deck hesitantly embraced "fast mana" options such as Mox Diamond and even Gemstone Caverns to counter-balance the loss of Cradle. There was also a huge shift away from running any ETBT lands and tweaking the creature package once again to be (slightly) less elfball-centric. Weakened but not defeated, Sisay soldiered on.
June 2017: 20 HP Is a Total Game-Changer
When the change to 20 HP was announced, I made some quick adjustments to my deck, but got obliterated in the new meta by the now viable burn strategy. It was discouraging, to say the least; having a board of weenie creatures and playing for the mid-game was no longer a viable option for Sisay where other ramp decks outclassed her. I took a break, believing Sisay was dead in the water in this new meta with Zurgo and Vial Smasher dominating tournaments. Well, Vial Smasher got the banhammer, and players began making smart adjustments to blunt Zurgo (though still very much tier 1). I was among them, for the first time ever adding walls, life gain, and more removal to survive the early game. Re-focusing on what Sisay does best, the deck was trimmed of all fat and made aggro viable with a main "I win" button game plan of the Dark Depths / Thespian Stage combo, which is both very easy to assemble and very difficult to disrupt. Sisay once again found her footing.
Cool Story, But is this Deck for Me?
Why Play Sisay?
- You're looking for a toolbox general that can be tuned for any meta
- You want to play must-answer bombs that can win the game almost immediately
- G/W Maverick is your style of deck
- You like a deck that can win with its general in a few turns, but has enough backup tutoring / threat density to do without
- You're looking for something competitive but underrepresented and often unknown to most Duel Commander metas
Why Not Play Sisay?
- The seemingly-schizophrenic nature of the deck may be stressful given all of the constant high-stakes decision-making
- The deck has a very high learning curve, as optimal tutor choices require a ton of meta knowledge
- If you're playing IRL: There's a 90% chance that you'll be shuffling your deck every turn, which makes opponents (understandably) upset
- To get the most of out a competitive Captain Sisay build, you're pretty much required to spend near or over 1k if you don't already own some of the staples
- Your Maybeboard will be comically oversized and you'll always second-guess your 99
Why Did I Choose Sisay?
If you're like most Duel Commander players, you made your way over to this variant after playing epic, big mana 4-hour multiplayer games with the default banlist. And if you're anything like me, you're a Johnny who wants to prove that Blue isn't the only big bad color in EDH town.
I chose Sisay as my main general because I've always favored G/W in magic. I'm a huge fan of the creature interactions and the mixture of beating face and being able to pull off out-of-nowhere wins with ostensibly underdog tactics. My choice was also informed by the consistency factor, and no other general satisfied both my inner Johhny and need for limiting the luck element of the game.
Sample Decks
20 HP Meta - Depths Combo
(Playtest the deck)Approximate Total Cost:
$1250
Last Updated:
06/10/2017
Riley's New Deck List (Elfball) (30 Life, June 2016)
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
Riley's Old Deck List (Midrange Control)
Merdock271's Deck List ("Biggest Zoo" Build)
How to Win
Like most decks with green, your primary goal is to have a turn 1 ramp permanent. The Sisay difference is that you also want have a protection permanent on turn 1 and/or two (an early Mother of Runes can be the difference maker in many matches) before Sisay enters on turn 3. Sometimes Sisay can enter on turn 2, though you usually don't want to over-commit if you know your opponent is playing a lot of removal.
With Sisay on the board and active (and, ideally, protected), you have access to a line of plays that will lead to an inevitable victory in 95% of circumstances. This is primarily how your tutor target chains will go:
Matchup: Heavy Control or Creatureless Combo
Example Commanders: Keranos, God of Storms, Narset, Enlightened Master, The Gitrog Monster
Odds of Winning: Not Great, 40/60
Start with Gaddock Teeg 90% of the time and Saffi Eriksdotter 10% of the time (especially if you suspect your opponent has Toxic Deluge ready). Especially in this matchup, you want to prioritize Teeg and Eriksdotter as early tutor targets; if they can hit the board on turn 2 or 3, that's ideal. This sets you up against most mass removal and Planeswalkers options. Often, following up with Hokori, Dust Drinker makes sense if your opponent tapped out, but your primary goal at this rate is to get Dragonlord Dramoka onto the board and seal the game with a slew of uncounterable spells from there on out.
Matchup: Elfball and Creature Combo
Example Commanders: Nissa, Vastwood Seer, Meren of Clan Nel Toth, Animar, Soul of Elements
Odds of Winning: Moderate, 50/50
Begin with Linvala, Keeper of Silence nearly 100% of the time, but occasionally you'll want Umezawa's Jitte very quickly instead. This is pretty much the only matchup in which you actually do want to go all-in ramp and otherwise overcommit to losing card advantage. There are ramp decks in the meta that are faster than yours, and Linvala isn't even a guaranteed shut-off valve; she does, however, slow down the game enough so that you can follow up with Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite shortly after to all but completely hinder your opponent's potential to dig themselves out.
Matchup: Aggro and Midrange
Example Commanders: Anafenza, the Foremost, Kytheon, Hero of Akros, Jenara, Asura of War
Odds of Winning: Favorable, 60/40
Start with Gaddock Teeg 50% of the time since opponents often have Wrath/mass LD options very early game, Umezawa's Jitte 25% of the time if you opponent's board is full of early weenies, Gisela, the Broken Blade 15% of the time for a big defensive body to prep you for the next big tutor (likely Dragonlord Dromoka), and 10% of the time you actually want to nab Yavimaya Hollow first, especially against G/W/B Midrange. Elesh Norn is your win condition in pretty much 100% of these matchups.
In ALL of the above matchups, there's opportunity to go for the Dark Depths / Thespian's Stage option, but it's rarely something to prioritize. Rather, I go for it if the land tutor opportunity presents itself and the coast seems relatively clear or if I just have the perfect hand for it. Likewise, if the opportunity presents itself, you can try for the Brisela combo. Thankfully, these creatures are very useful on their own, so there's less downside to going after these targets in the mid-game.
And that's pretty much the gist of it! Ramp very early and often, use your many tutors to set up the perfect early disruption (Sanctum Prelate set to 3 and Gaddock Teeg on the board is unbeatable in quite a few control matchups), and play Sisay to strategically hinder your opponent to death. In the vast majority of games, a turn 5-ish Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is your ticket to victory.
Card Choices Explained
Legendary Creatures
Gaddock Teeg:
Teeg stops wraths, mass LD effects, most Planeswalkers, Opposition, Cryptic Command, Force of Will, Wildfire, all of which you're likely to encounter against top decks. Blanking your opponent's key cards or the ones that might bring him back into the game certainly has its place in the meta. Also, he carries a sword like a champ.
Saffi Eriksdotter:
She allows you to play your general and blank either a spot removal spell or a mass removal spell. She also provides key protections for your bombs and is especially amazing with Sun Titan. Getting both Saffi and Titan on the board should almost certainly be GG.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence:
She completely shuts down your opponent's mana dorks (very prevalent), their utility creatures (you'll encounter pingers and searchers and other obnoxious jerks), and is a nice-costed flier. If shrouded, she will probably be sufficient in beating elfball, can seriously hinder Iname's progress, and outright stops generals like Arcum.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite:
Simply resolving her is enough to beat most of the aggro-control decks in the format. Whatever they have that survives will be forced to chump block your now huge army. She also combos with Living Plane for instant victories.
Sigarda, Host of Herons:
Hexproof is always relevant. Cannot be sacrificed means that Sigarda can only die via wrath. If you have Saffi or Teeg in play as well, Sigarda can win games with just a few swings. Great against Thrax and Liliana. Carries a sword better than any other creature in the deck.
Iona, Shield of Emeria:
Some games are volatile back and forth slugfests and you may get to 9 mana naturally to hard cast her. In all likelihood, however, you're cheating her out early on with Survival of the Fittest and Loyal Retainers. Getting her on the field by turn 4 will result in a win almost 100% of the time against mono-colored decks.
Creatures
Sylvan Safekeeper:
Better than Mother of Runes and Devoted Caretaker, because he works the turn he comes into play. Also fetchable via Green Sun's Zenith, unlike the above two. Most removal in this format is instant speed, so it's vital to get protection creatures active immediately.
Scavenging Ooze:
Very easily fetchable and can obliterate reanimator decks like Karador and Iname. Can randomly become a huge beater in stalled games, too, and the lifegain is sometimes relevant.
Sakura-Tribe Elder:
Sac-Me Tribe Elder is not just another copy of Rampant Growth, but can also be used to chumpblock early damage. He helps us get to a turn 3 Sisay, and fixes our mana like a boss. Great utility creature that effectively has haste.
Stoneforge Mystic:
Fantastic toolbox card that fetches Haste/Protection for your key creatures. Steelshaper's Gift with a body, and thus something your opponents will almost certainly try to answer if she resolves.
Qasali Pridemage:
When your creatures stick early on, you'll probably only have 1 to attack with at any given time. At the worst, he's a good beater. But really, you'll probably be popping him immediately to answer a sword or Phyrexian Arena or something diabolical. More fetchable with GSZ than Harmonic Sliver, and combos with Sun Titan.
Fierce Empath:
What to do with all of our mana? How about playing a chump blocker who ups our mana count for Gaea's Cradle while tutoring out a Titan? This guy does work.
Knight of the Reliquary
Becomes huge fast, especially with 7 fetch lands in your deck. No opponent wants this around. Solid in every matchup, especially since she can nab key lands like Gaea's Cradle.
Loyal Retainers:
Combos with Survival and Iona, or whichever other Legend you need in play for cheap. Also, if drawn into, it's likely to have a target in the graveyard. Pricey as hell, but not an issue if you're playing on Cockatrice.
Primeval Titan:
More often than not, resolving Prime Time means that your subsequent draws are all amazing and castable. This is an additional perk to the fact that Prime Time will wins games with a few swings on his own, but he brings all of your man lands into play, too, growing your army as he attacks.
Sun Titan:
Interacts with the majority of the deck, will probably win you the game if he resolves. Very castable with all of our safe ramp.
Artifacts
Expedition Map:
Fetches you Cavern of Souls against blue, fetches you anything else you need otherwise. Great toolbox card for a deck with so many useful lands.
Relic of Progenitus:
Best graveyard hate card in the format because it replaces itself, IMO. Can often beat Iname on its own, and completely backbreaking for Karador, two decks that are never going away and are otherwise nearly impossible to stop.
Grim Monolith:
If resolving your bombs is enough to prompt GGs, resolving them several turns quicker than you should be able to is a more efficient GG.
Umezawa's Jitte:
Auto-include in any creature based French deck, which is just about all of them. At worst, it blows up your opponent's Jitte. At best, it wipes all your opponent's creatures from existence and shortens your opponent's life substantially. Also combos with Living Plane to snipe your opponent's lands.
Lightning Greaves:
Hasted Sisay is probably GG. Protected anything else is as close to GG as you're going to get, especially since we run Titans. Shroud is just icing on the cake.
Sword of Fire and Ice:
Pinging the majority of creatures to death, giving card advantage, and giving protection from the most common EDH color are what makes this arguably the best sword in the format.
Sword of Feast and Famine:
Relevant protections, and forces your opponent to make ill-timed plays to prevent themselves from discarding useful cards. Also allows you to play multiple synergistic cards on one turn that probably protect each other, as opposed to needing to wait two turns.
Enchantments
Utopia Sprawl:
Safer mana elf. Most decks can't stop this or will have to save their answers for, say, Survival of the Fittest. Arguably better than Llanowar Elf.
Wild Growth:
Even better than Utopia Sprawl which means it's that much better than a more vulnerable mana dork option.
Sterling Grove:
Great toolbox card that doubles as protection for Survival of the Fittest. Can fetch removal or Sylvan Library, too. Almost always useful.
Journey to Nowhere:
A 2-mana Swords to Plowshares with a lower drawback. Some decks have no means of interacting with it, or have to answer it and then have fewer ways to deal with your real threats.
Lignify:
If someone plays their general unprotected, this alone can beat certain decks and is even better than STP. One of our few ways to slow down Animar, this card is a must for any Green deck.
Steely Resolve:
If this sticks, you can safely get away with playing your general and, consequently, winning. Can also be used to prevent opposing generals from being equipped, if needed. Difficult card to play effectively, but proven great in this instant-speed-removal-heavy meta.
Survival of the Fittest:
Broken card is broken. Enjoy it while you can!
Sylvan Library:
Great draw-fixing, especially given all the shuffling. Opponents never want to see this card resolve and will try to kill it at all costs.
Nevermore:
Can beat certain decks that have no means of interacting with it. If not calling their general, you can name other "meta known" cards that you might be concerned about.
Oblivion Ring:
Better in a meta where combo is King, but still something that can hit most every card on the field. Sisay struggles against Planeswalkers, so this is a good out and highly tutorable.
Living Plane:
Wins the game with Elesh Norn and will probably win the game with Linvala. Also boosts your Gaea's Cradle, given you a ton of mana quickly. Can be dangerous though if played at the wrong time, so play with caution.
Instants
Tithe:
Helps superbly in ensuring you have enough mana to cast your game-enders. Can help you keep risky hands, too.
Mana Tithe:
Catches opponents by surprise every time. Also may cause your opponents to wait a turn later to play their key spells. This card is fantastic.
Path to Exile:
Not the best answer in the world, but our deck is hurting for cheap answers that deal with decks like Zur who are often setting up early with Lightning Greaves.
Swords to Plowshares:
See Path to Exile, although Swords is obviously better.
Nature's Claim:
Think of this as a one-mana counter spell for artifacts and enchantments that gives your opponent 4 life, a negligible amount considering how much you need to kill their swords and that you're on your way to winning extravagantly somehow in the mid-game, anyway.
Worldly Tutor:
This is sadly card disadvantage, but still too valuable not to include for being one mana. Tutoring for silver bullets or whatever is needed at the time is wonderful.
Enlightened Tutor:
Same as Worldly Tutor, able to grab so many useful things. Never a dead draw.
Eladamri's Call:
A better Worldly Tutor, in my opinion. One mana more, but replaces itself and allows you to play whatever you tutored that turn, supposing you have the additional mana.
Last Breath:
Great removal that exiles all of your opponents' hate bears, utility creatures, mana dorks, most beaters, and several generals (Zur, Sygg, Doran, etc.).
Selesnya Charm:
With more big ramp decks in the meta, it's great to have a card that exiles bombs with no drawback. Also allows us some interesting combat tricks, and if nothing else can make a sword carrier. Very versatile card.
Congregation at Dawn:
Yet another creature tutor, can set you up with synergistic creatures. Get's better as the game goes on.
Beast Within:
The drawback is negligible next to being able to destroy any permanent, especially Planeswalkers and Humility.
Sorceries
Steelshaper's Gift:
For one mana, this card is too good not to include. It's a narrower Enlightened Tutor, but you'll use equipment (Greaves, at least) no matter the matchup.
Green Sun's Zenith:
Superb tutor, often getting you Teeg, Sylvan Safekeeper, or Dryad Arbor. Gets Prime Time in the late game.
Nature's Lore:
A safer mana dork that improves future draws.
Three Visits:
A safer mana dork that improves future draws.
Into the North:
A safer mana dork that improves future draws.
Farseek:
A safer mana dork that improves future draws.
Rampant Growth:
A safer mana dork that improves future draws.
Edge of Autumn:
A safer mana dork that improves future draws.
Sylvan Scrying:
Even better than Expedition Map. More redundancy for Cavern of Souls is awesome sauce.
Tariff:
One of your few means of answering Animar and Geist, and is often useful against decks that tap out to play something large. Great card, almost always one-sided.
Kodama's Reach:
A safer mana dork that improves future draws.
Cultivate:
A safer mana dork that improves future draws.
Tooth and Nail:
Casting for 9 is difficult, but can soundly end games for 7 mana by cheating out Iona or tutoring up a Titan and, say, Sylvan Safekeeper.
Planeswalkers
Elspeth, Knight-Errant:
A must answer card. This will take all of your opponent's focus to deal with, and can win games on its own.
Garruk Wildspeaker:
Allows our obnoxious bombs to be played sooner, so for this deck is a must answer card.
Garruk, Primal Hunter:
Pretty versatile and fills the 5-drop slot.
Legendary Lands
Gaea's Cradle:
Can provide a much-needed boost to get to Norn faster. Highly fetchable.
Eiganjo Castle:
Can be tutored by Sisay to ensure you have enough mana for Norn and Iona. Can randomly make Sisay survive Pyroclasm and other burn effects. Great card.
Flagstones of Trokair:
Makes Sylvan Safekeeper very happy.
Yavimaya Hollow:
Lots of killing spells and combat in this meta. Worth it. Can even be tutored out early to protect Sisay if no other means is available.
Hall of the Bandit Lord:
A hasted Sisay is a happy Sisay. A hasted Titan is GG.
Other Lands
No explanation needed. They're well-tested and highly optimized.
Matchups Against Competitive Generals
Animar, Soul of Elements (Notable player: Jester831):
Outlook: 35/65
How to: After Animar resolves, you're about to lose. This deck is just faster and your Animar answers are too few. But it's not completely hopeless! Best case scenario: you cheat Norn into play early and win on the spot. Be mindful of combo pieces (kill Wirewood Symbiote on sight), and pray for a fast, combo-rific hand.
Iona color: 50% Green, 40% Red, 10% Blue
Geist of Saint Traft (Notable player: Gaka):
Outlook: 40/60
How to: As is the case against most aggro-control decks, you've got too many must-answer threats for them to deal with. Still, Geist is a threat that you almost certainly CAN'T deal with unless you resolve the right creatures. Tariff is about your only hope of stopping a resolved Geist. The way to go about this matchup is just to ramp and play more/bigger threats and hope your opponent does go super voltron in the early game.
Iona color: 60% Blue, 40% White
Doran, the Siege Tower:
Outlook: 45/55
How to: This one is tough because Doran has so many wonderful removal options, and can discard your removal spells handily. Try to play what you can, and don't be afraid to kill mana dorks to slow down the deck a turn or two. As is often the case, ramping into Norn is still your best bet here.
Iona color: 40% White, 40% Black, 20% Green
Zur the Enchanter (Notable player: Omgmakeme):
Outlook: 50/50
How to: You play enough instant speed removal to deter Zur for a little while, but the best Zur decks play enough ramp to continue to recast him. Nevermore and Lignify are big studs here to keep the deck in check. Just play your threats aggressively and make it so the Zur player never feels comfortable tapping out.
Iona color: 35% Black, 33% Blue, 32% White
Thraximundar (Notable players: Fluxuate, Abnormality):
Outlook: 50/50
How to: Without the emphasis on weenies as before, this matchup becomes a lot closer. Still, Thrax has lots of counters and spot removal ready for Sisay. If you can resolve Sigarda or get any sort of fast rampy start, you'll probably win. Resolving an early Nevermore is also GG.
Iona color: 90% Black, 10% Blue
Jenara, Asura of War (Notable player: kwiznek):
Outlook:50/50
How to: This deck is a triple threat in Jenara, Oath, and Humility, and the latter will almost certainly be a played due to all of the tutoring. But we run enough man lands, equipment, and land control to stay toe-to-toe with out opponent--sometimes. If you can stick an early shroud affect in this matchup, you can almost certainly win. I find the aggro-based version equally challenging, and obviously we want to focus on Norn in that matchup.
Iona color: 80% White, 20% Blue
Iname, Death Aspect (Notable player: Evergreen):
Outlook: 55/45
How to: With some of your better exile removal effects, you can null most of the tricks that this deck can pull off by ridding of the recurring creatures. Linvala and Scavenging Ooze are all-stars here, and your priority should be getting them into play asap. This deck is fast, but has to focus a ton of removal (especially targeted discard) on your board to prevent Surival and Nevermore from stealing the game early.
Godo, Bandit Warlord (Notable player: Hunter245):
Outlook: 55/45
How to: Linvala is an all-star in this matchup. You just have to make sure you can get her in hand. Removal doesn't help much in this matchup because of sheer redundancy, so you just need speed and a little luck to get to Linvala and then Norn.
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch:
Outlook: 55/45
How to: This used to be significantly more difficult when we played a bunch of vulnerable weenies but is much more even now. Nevertheless, Sisay is still vulnerable, and a good discard package can still make it difficult to get your bombs into play. That said, Sigarda can win this match on her own, and ramping into Norn before you're in the red is practically GG.
Iona color: 95% Black, 5% Red
Vendilion Clique:
Outlook: 55/45
How to: This used to be way more favorable for us when we were more weenie-focused, but should still be in your favor more often than not just by virtue of our deck being so tuned and having so much mana available to recast Sisay. Clique just doesn't have enough counters in the end.
Ezuri, Renegade Leader:
Outlook: 60/40
How to: Linvala is an all-star in this matchup. Pretty much everything that's been said for Godo can be said for this matchup. Ezuri has tons of ramp redundancy, so you just need to try to get to the end-game quicker and pick off anything that looks like it's part of a combo or will help deal lethal to you. If you can survive long enough, Elesh Norn entering the fray is GG.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary:
Outlook: 60/40
How to: For the elfball variant, just get Linvala into play early. You can't lose. And generally speaking, Sisay is just much quicker than Momir, who will require probably 7 mana to safely play the general (to hold counter backup for removal). Jitte and Norn are also top tutor targets in this matchup.
Iona color: 70% Green, 30% Blue
Arcum Dagsson
Outlook: 60/40
How to: You can outrace this deck. Still, make sure that Arcum doesn't come down hasted. The deck runs few answers and is very combo-focused, so have no fear of resolving threats in this matchup. Be aggressive, but be mindful of Arcum's potential 2 turns down the road and budget mana appropriately.
Sygg, River Cutthroat:
Outlook: 60/40
How to: Drop threats. Lots of 'em. Don't be shy in this matchup, or else you'll lose great things to inevitable discard. Also, putting down creatures as blockers that will inevitably become giant beaters means you've got a surer gameplan in this matchup (Norn dominates this matchup). Still, getting through both counters and discard isn't easy always easy, but you can usually power Sisay though the removal.
Iona color: 60% Black, 40% Blue
Karador, Ghost Chieftain:
Outlook: 65/35
How to: Karador is a bit too slow for Sisay as far as combo decks go and doesn't run much in the way of disruption. You can pretty much goldfish this one, but you still have to be smart about your removal. Your graveyard hate is a major pain for this deck, and your exile effects can prohibit the deck from winning. Elesh Norn takes this one most of the time.
Iona color: 40% Black, 30% Green, 30% White
Isamaru, Hound of Konda:
Outlook: 65/35
How to: This is pretty much a match of Solitaire. Just ramp into Elesh Norn (and destroy threats as they come). Occasionally Isamaru will go nuts with great draws, so you can't be afraid to trade creatures in combat in the early turns of this matchup.
Win Percentages
Updated frequently on this Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag7hPqV7IT4DdFlYMWZ3b3ZNdlVXVnpBN0dIRnU4ZkE#gid=0
Change Log
Sep '11 Changes
Oct '11 Changes
Nov '11 Changes
Dec '11 Changes
Jan '12 Changes
Feb '12 Changes
Mar '12 Changes
Apr '12 Changes
May '12 ChangesDebut of many big changes in preparation for the Salvation tourney: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8362307&postcount=248
Sep '12 Changes
Debut of even bigger changes in response to a brand new meta: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9036645&postcount=275
Oct '12 Changes
Dec '12 Changes
OutMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Most Rampant Growths
1 Living Plane
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Tooth and NailInMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Most mana dorks
1 Aura of Silence
1 Natural Order
1 Painter's Servant
1 Isochron Scepter
Spoiler alert is not working -
Jun 20, 20171
Lantern posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]Well for the sake of thought experiments, If I was goign to rebuild cat zoo today itd look like this:Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
The only 2 reasons youd ever wanna play a cat zoo over anything else is 1. Getting global Pumps to make each creature stronger, which Pride actually helps with, and 2. Because everything is white, enabling brave and lack of life loss.
I realistically, the deck unlike other zoos is super good at racing burn because it doesnt hurt itself. And brave the elements is like boros charm on crack. Its the single best card in that deck. If white weenies were to be a thing, that would be the leading reason why. It says "one mana, avoid removal or if its in late game deal 12."
Upgrades to the deck in the video is kytheon, giving the deck more late game than figure used to provide, and pride sovereign, who actually fits the theme absurdly well. The tokens he makes are white, hell be huge the minute you play it, and at worst he makes more tokens, all of which get pumped by honor, saved by brave AND he can be exerted and untapped by kytheon flipped.
if you wanted to use pride, heres the best place to do it. -
Jan 17, 20177
Dan Pyre posted a message on What's everyone's take on the January Announcement?I figured I'd chime in on this since I'm the most active RC member on this particular forum. I'll give you my personal opinion, which in no way should be taken as the view of the RC, the Regional Coordinators or the rest of the DC team as well - this is just my take on it. Consider this my take as a player instead of a voting member. I'd like to think that I have a decent ability to separate these thought processes as it is important to not give in to emotion or poor logic while making important decisions like this.Posted in: 1 vs 1 Commander
I do not think that Vial Smasher should be legal.
However, Vial Smasher was not banned in the most recent update because there was not a majority by all members of the RC. Nor should anyone who voted this way be faulted for it. It's important to be able to consider the opposition's side of any given debate so that you fully understand what you are arguing against. While I think that Vial Smasher should be banned, the arguments on the other side have weight as well. Not only has it only been 3 months since the release of the new Commanders - it's only been 3 months since the format officially had a major rules change. With both of these factors combined making a decision in haste might not be the most clear minded idea.
The intent behind the 20HP change outlined in the previous banlist update was to enable card unbans and to prevent further banning of cards/Commanders that could be avoided. However, as always, we are at the mercy of the Wizards design team when it comes to yearly Commander releases. With this new release, several brand new Commanders came out of nowhere to compete for top spots in the format. And with the new Partner mechanic in the mix there was a lot of variants of decks that could exist. It's difficult to police what's acceptable and what isn't when the entire paradigm shifts and the new variables (Commanders) are added without warning.
It's a choice to keep observing instead of acting rashly especially after a major rules change. I think it's a better decision (as a player) than making moves that have negative consequences for the format by continuing to dogpile the 'banned as Commander' list or have to be reversed later. While changing an unban or ban (Top/Protean Hulk, or the Bitterblossom BAN that was in early 2011 for example) CAN happen, the idea is avoid shifting cards around as much as possible. Rather, this is my thought process on it. If any of the other team members here want to comment I'm sure they'll be happy to give their opinion.
Ultimately, yes, the RC does care about the format but we cannot afford to have a knee jerk reaction every time Wizards prints new Commanders. Only when they're obviously breaking the rules of the format by default
(Looking at you, Derevi, disclaimer I was not an RC member at that time, only recently in 2016). And since we changed the rules on the format at the same time as new questionable Commanders got printed, there isn't really clarity to make that kind of decision just yet.
I'm happy to reply here more but know that I of course have to be guarded with some answers because internal secrets, discussions, world domination plans etc etc -
Jun 28, 2012
10
Lantern posted a message on [Read This] Welcome to Modern and the Modern forum! (updated 8/6/16)Posted in: Modern
What is Modern?
Modern is a format where you can play cards from sets that were once Standard legal starting from 8th Edition. Unlike in the Standard format, where cards stop being playable when a new block is printed, every card printed will remain usable in Modern, because Modern is a non-rotating format.
Contrary to Vintage and Legacy, Modern doesn't have a Reserved List, which means that staples can be reprinted to increase card availability. To date, many cards have been reprinted in Modern Masters, and some others in Standard legal sets.
Here's the List of Currently Playable Sets
(Updated 8/5/2016)
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Why play Modern instead of the other contructed formats?
Whether you are a Modern diehard, a Legacy veteran, or just a regular Magic player, chances are that you have heard about the Modern vs. Legacy debate. After all, Modern was born in no small part because of issues with Legacy, so it's only fair that people compare the formats. Both are nonrotating, both have lots of deck options, and both have powerful cards. So why play Modern over Legacy?
For one, it's a format that is wholly supported by Wizards. With the Modern Masters series, numerous Modern staples being reprinted/printed in sets, Wizards has made it clear that they want to support Modern for the foreseeable future. By playing Modern, you get to benefit from this Wizards push with lots of tournament opportunities and reduced prices of major staples.
Second, it's a different format entirely. Different decks, different staples, different strategies, and different expectations of games. If you want fair decks, Modern has plenty of that for you (Jund, BG Rock, UWR Control, Delver, etc.). If you want fast aggro, we have that too (Burn, Affinity, Bogles). Want some unfair decks? Modern even has that, both on the fairer side of the combo spectrum (Abzan Company) and the less fair side (Griselbrand and Storm). Overall, with a lot of unique decks and a lot of differences from Legacy, Modern has its own identity and should be treated as such.
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This format is much, much larger than standard. Meaning there's much more options to play. Modern gives you dozens of options of each deck strategy, with some traditional representatives (UWR Control, Zoo, Jund) and some zany ones (Restore Balance, 8Rack, Knights, etc.).
Card quality is also a lot higher without being overpowering. Even very powerful plays have answers in Modern, so there is never one deck that is just better than everything else in the format. That said, the format is also more skill intensive so you need to be careful. A bad timed spell could ruin your day. This format rewards tight gameplay and smart plays, better games and more enjoyable matchups.
Finally, you'll find things change much more slower than standard. A deck that's good will likely stay good for a long time. Invest in your baby, improve it, play it, and never have to leave it! That's the beauty of the nonrotating Modern format.
Ban List
Remember the Modern forum rule: Banlist, banning, and unbanning discussion is only allowed The Current Modern Banlist Discussion Thread.
"Why have a ban list at all?" you might ask? While it's true that this is an non-rotating format, and you should be able to play with all cards you own, there are many cards that are overpowered (probably by accident), unfun to play against, or provide too much power to a certain deck.
If you're worried about jumping into modern because of all the recent bans, please read The "Addressing Modern Concerns" section.
The following cards are banned in Modern
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Please See the Following Links:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/brief-history-modern-banned-list-2015-02-03
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/january-18-2016-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2016-01-18
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/banned-and-restricted-announcement-2016-04-04
The Styles of Play
In general, there are 7 different types of Modern playing styles, Tempo, Aggro, Midrange, Combo, Control, Ramp, and rogue. Below is A brief explanation of these styles:
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All are from the Wiki.
Tempo: The concept of tempo is to dissect the more intricate means of how and when lands and spells are played, as opposed to the "race" which approaches aggressive strategies haphazardly. A player who has a strong understanding of tempo can often put the game state in their favor without having to resort to copious amounts of card advantage or card utility for contingency's sake during the game. Tempo is not specific to any one color, nor does it favor a specific color for having the "best tempo", as tempo exists merely to scale the game's pace and allow it's reader a better understanding of how to seek victory.
Good examples are Merfolk, Fae, and Delver.
Aggro: Magic: The Gathering term for a deck which attempts to win the game through persistent, quick damage dealing. Usually these decks will use small, hard-hitting creatures to win the game. Perfers to race decks, rather than interact. (Aka proactive not reactive.)
Good examples are Zoo, Affinity, and Burn.
Control: A control deck is a term for a deck of cards that aims to control the opponent's cards and progression with, ideally, the end result where one has full control of everything that is done during the game. Control decks are very powerful and present in virtually every format in the game. They want to drop some bomb to win with, but stall out everything else until then.
Good examples are URW Control, Thopter Control.
Midrange: Decks that want to forget the early game and strike straight into midrange. They try to out threat aggro, and make up for their early game with back breaking creatures and threat value.
Good examples of this is Bant and Jund.
Combo: aims to win the game using a relatively small number of cards that instantly or very quickly win the game when combined (hence the name "combo"). Because of this win strategy, a common motif among combo decks is an emphasis put on the ability to find specific cards quickly and win as fast as possible. They will trade consistency for sheer explosiveness.
Good examples of this is Storm, and Ad Nauseam.
Ramp: Does exactly as the name implies, it ramps. Usually forgoing the early and midgame, and focusing on putting lands out, they tend to end the game with either a sheer amount of lands, or mana to put out big things. They trade the control elements control decks have to simply go faster.
Good examples is Tron and Eldrazi Ramp.
Rogue: Rogue Deck can mean a deck that is developed secretly in the run up to a tournament and so arrives on the day completely unknown to the opponents giving the pilot the element of surprise. In this case, such decks are designed to beat an entire metagame normally through the use of cards or strategies which are not currently being used in the high level metagame. Decks of this type are often very powerful, but also fragile and only able to be consistently good before the metagame adjusts at which point they often become unplayable. This however is not a downside for the deck builder, because the aim is not for longevity or to make a new tier 1 deck, it is to win a specific tournament with a specific metagame and nothing else, with the player switching decks immediately after.
Good examples of this are Restore Balance, Eggs, and other odd off the wall decks.
Modern Deck Options
Below are the various archetypes of Modern divided by deck strategy. All decks below are viable decks.
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Control
Grixis Control - Packing a ton of permission and reactive cards, this deck generates more card advantages and one for ones than the average control deck in modern. Also it has a zombie fish as a win con.
UWR Control - Classic permission deck jammed with countermagic, removal, instant-speed card draw, and a few resilient finishers. UWR is tailored with a ton of removal to handle the creature-heavy decks of the Modern format.
Mono U Tron - Counter and bounce everything while building up the Urzatron to get out your big, endgame threats. Lock them down with a Mindslaver/Ruins combo or beat them to death with Sundering Titan.
4C Gifts - Use Gifts Ungiven to take control of the game with a toolbox of spells that function from both your hand and your graveyard. Versatile and skill-intensive control at its best.
UW Tron - Mono U Tron meets 4C Gifts in this control/combo hybrid that looks to stop the opponent's gameplan while finishing with accelerated and/or reanimated fatties.
Skred Red is a board control deck, aiming to control the flow of the game via kill spells and mana killing.
Thopter Control Is a control deck that wins with the thopter sword combo.
Blue Moon Punishing greedy mana bases, this controls the flow of the game until you can win.
Lantern Control Is a deck that uses "rot rocks" to control what the Opponent will draw.
The Rack is a discard lock deck, which throttles your opponent until you set your win con out.
Aggro
Affinty - Spews out their hand turn 1-3 for an army of
angry artifact dudes. All-in-fast-aggro at its finest.
Bogles - Stick a giant stack of auras on your hexproof critter. Attack until opponent is dead.
Burn - Burn your opponent from 20 to 0 in as few turns as possible with maximum redundancy. Bolt 'em, Boros 'em, Bump 'em, and generally Burn 'em to death.
Infect - Pump up your infect critters and go from 0 to 10 poison counters as early as possible.
Zoo - Get mountains, forests, and plains into play. Bring out your animals. Overrun. Burn whatever is left standing and whatever stands in your way.
Soul Sisters - White weenie is back! Gain tons of life to stay alive and pump up your creatures as they soar across the enemy lines for the win.
Merfolk - Overwhelm your opponents with the many Merfolk lords, swinging with your gigantic islandwalking army of fish.
GW Hatebears - With your army of 2 CMC utility creatures, lock down the opponent's board and hand and beat them to death with your sword-wielding critters.
Elves- Elves naturally synergize with each other, and with card selection, and the correct lords, win via overrunning.
Dredge/DredgevineBoth of these decks are aggro decks, even if they feel comboy. The idea is to dump your libary into your graveyard, and use the graveyard like your hand.
Stompy Is all about getting greens best creatures out and overrunning.
Suicide Zoo is an all in aggro deck, using its life total to help win the game.
Goblins A deck that will never go out of style, goblins is reds aggressive tribe.
Combo
Scapeshift - Ramp up to 7+ lands, cast Scapeshift, fetch Valakut and mountains, deal lots of damage.
Storm- Cast a bunch of spells, stringing mana rituals and draw together, until you achieve critical mass and win with the Storm mechanic (Empty the Warrens and/or Grapeshot).
Living End - Cycle lands and creatures. Cascade into Living End, kill the opponent's creatures and then kill them with your resurrected horde.
Griselbrand Reanimator - Want to win on turn 2 in the turn 4 format? This is the deck for you. Reanimate a Griselbrand on turn 2 and swing for the win, gaining life, drawing cards, and attacking again and again with Fury of the Horde. Or just hit with Emrakul to win on the spot.
Restore Balance - Use Borderposts or GreaterGarg to clear your board before firing a Restore Balance to wipe out your opponent's entire battlefield and hand. Win with suspended critters or animated borderposts.
Ad Nauseam Using Angel's Glory or Phrexian Unlife, you can use Ad Nauseam to pick up your whole deck and throw it at the opponent for lethal.
Kiki-Chord Use value creatures to work your way to Kiki and Resto angel to win the game.
Assult Loam Tries to literally throw lands at peoples faces.
Midrange
Jund - RBG or RBGw good-stuff deck packed with removal, disruption, and cost-efficient threats.
UWR Midrange - Play a few high-value threats like Geist and Resto Angel and then hold the line with countermagic and burn while they finish the job.
Junk / Abzan - Like Jund but switching the red for white to play Lingering Souls, Siege Rhino and Path to Exile. Drop a few quality threats and hold the board down with removal and discard.
Abzan Company - A midrange deck where all the creatures generate value and card advantage, much in the same way pod did. The core uses Collected Company as a tutor spell, and has serveral combo instant wincons.
Black White tokens Tries to grind the game out with tokens and pump, making spot removal useless
Tempo
This classic delver is about as tempo as you can get.
Grixis Delver - Usually plays enough burn and disruption to keep people off their games as they take over the board state with low-cost, high-value creatures.
Faeries - Counter everything, then attack with flash fliers.
Death and Taxes Tempo. Disrupt opponent's manabase, and over run with white weenies.
Temur DelverUsing greens best creatures and blues best tempo.
Knightfall Is a bant deck, using built in land synergies to explode out wins.
Ramp
RG Tron- Plays the urza lands (Mine/Tower/Power Plant) to ramp out a Karn, Wurmcoil, or Emrakul into play. All before turn 5.
Red Green Eldrazi is a enivatablity deck, churning out strong creatures turn by turn.
Titan Scapeshift More of a ramp deck than combo like its brother scapeshift, this one aims to ramp and eventually crush the late game with titans and valakuts.
Not trying to ramp too high, it still aims to skip some mana to put out pure value creatures that will win the game.
Bulding your own deck
How do I evaluate cards?_______________________________________________________________________________________
This is one of the most important, but also most difficult, parts of getting into Modern. If you're new to this format, you'll have a hard time seeing what could be good and what could be bad. I have a saying I'd like to share with you.What Deck is Right for Me?
"If it looks ok, use it in block, if it looks good, use it in standard. If it's really good, think about it for modern, if amazing, use it in modern. If its broken, and people are saying it could be used in legacy, jam it into your modern deck."
That's right. Modern only accepts the best of the best. Meaning most spells that cost 4+ mana are out of the picture unless they are basically winning the game on the spot. Efficiency is the key. Ask yourself these questions before deciding if you should use a card in your modern deck.
- Is there another card that can do this effect cheaper, better, or is more veristial?
- Is this creature above the curve for its casting cost? (EX: Tarmogoyf is a "3/4" for 2)
- Is there better options in a different color? (EX. prey upon vs. path to exile)
- Is my card synergistic with a different card (Ex. Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Kitchen Finks)
- Does this card have any place in a pre-existing archetype that could make it more powerful? (Ex: Restoration Angel in Snapcaster Control)
Remember to look for the following in evaluating cards:
- Cheap casting cost
- Biggest power/toughness for cost
- Evasion, recurrsion, great game winning ablities
- Disruption, power to stall/hinder your opponent
It's complicated to pin point exactly what deck you should pick up. The best place to start is in our very own "What Deck Should I Play" thread, which is always full of helpful players willing to make suggestions. But the best solution is to go online and test out some decks, see what makes the most fun for you. Cockatrice has a great deck building software, and lets you play other people online. And its completely free!How do I build a successful deck?
But if you want a starting place, here are three good starting questions:
- What are my favorate colors?
- What style of playing do I like most
- Do I want a top deck, or a deck I can work a lot on (Up hill battle?)
- Do I have any cards I really love, and is there similar cards I can play with?
- What current Modern decks appeal to me?
There are many ways to go about building a modern deck. Usually the best ways are tweaking an already existing deck to fit your metagame, or just building from complete scratch to gain a surprise, or a fun factor. But you should always figure out what your metagame is first.
What is my Metagame?
In order to figure that out, you'll need to talk to some people, and watch/play some games. look for these trends:
- What style is most of these decks? Aggro? Combo? ect.
- Are they popular archetypes?
- Is there a lot of blue being played, maybe red? ect.
- What decks seem to always be winning? Why is that?
This bits easy. Figure out the meta, and adjust the deck accordingly. I strongly suggest using our forums to chat with people what the best way to do that is. Remember flexible sideboards can cover main board weaknesses.
Going Rogue
This is a lot harder than it seems. Sometimes it works amazingly sometimes its a bust. Practice, and clever observations of the meta will prove you in this. Really pay attention to your meta's weaknesses and exploited it. Always keep in mind how you can drive your game plan home, and look at every available spell to our card pool to do so.
Ways to Test
Again, cockatrice is what I would use, but there are always friends you can turn to. Either make/print proxies of cards, or build the decks yourself and play people. Cockatrice also allows you to goldfish, so I suggest doing that to familiarize yourself with the decks.
Current Metagame
This next section is a debriefing on the Modern Metagame. It's good to know whats going on in the wide world of Modern, so you're not out of the loop when a new deck rises or falls. Here at MTG Salvation, the moderators strive to make sure that the Tier 1 and Tier 2 sections reflect the main Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks respectively. Tier 3 decks, and decks that have not yet found competitive success, can be found in the Deck Creation subforum. The more popular and more competitive decks/discussions are located in the Developing Competitive subforum
For more information on how decks met this criteria, see this thread for Tier 1 decks, this thread for Tier 2 decks and this thread for the other competitive decks.
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Addressing Modern Concerns
A lot of people miss out in this format because of three main concerns: Price, bannings, and speed misconceptions. This part is to put your mind to rest about those, so you can get out there and play some Modern.
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Price- Shock lands are around 15 bucks a pop. Fetches are pricier but a great, multi-format investment. Other staples, like Goyf and Confidant, might look pricey on paper. But remember that Modern cards never rotate!! So although, the initial cost might feel a bit high, in the end, your one deck that you can play for years is cheaper than that Standard deck that changes every 12 months. After all once you have a Modern deck, you only upkeep it, getting one or two cards to add as needed. And with demand for standard cards so high, you can easily trade for what you need. Also, with sets like Modern Masters and reprints like Thoughtseize, Wizards has made a big effort to drive prices down and make Modern accessible for anyone.
Bannings- Yes, there has been some bannings in the past. But it was to balance out a baby format. As Modern has been maturing, it, along with the ban list, has become more stable. Many of the most recent ban announcements didn't even touch Modern. If you're worried you're cards will be banned, chances are your safe. If anything, cards are likely to be unbanned in the future, enabling even more decks.Speed Misconceptions- Although most standard players believe that Modern and Legacy are filled with combo, that's not entirely accurate. Unlike standard, however, combo does exist and does unfair things sometimes, like winning turn 2-3 if they get lucky. But Modern gives you more than enough answers to slow down these decks, and even if you don't play those kinds of interactive cards, most Modern combo decks are only threatening to win on turn 4. Modern is not as fast as people believe. With midrange and creature-based decks the norm, many games actually last longer than standard ones! Remember that with such a large card pool, you can answer most situations.
Useful Threads to Look at
- Current Banned List Discussion Vent about what cards should be on it, what shouldn't.
- What Decks Should I Play? Wonder what decks you should play? Ask here.
- Modern Prices Vent about Goyf's price, speculate what will rise or fall in value, and ask for buying/selling tips.
- The Great Modern Meta Thread
Should you have any questions:
Feel free to contact a Modern moderator!
Lantern - General edits
Cardfather - Ban list
ktkenshinx - General edits and overhaul
Blippy the Slug - Meta game info
planeswalker7976 - compling card discussions
Bewble/Pand3m0nia - Grammar and spelling check
SlimBackwater - List of sets
pizzap - overhaul
MTG Community - Wiki, staples of the format, overall check -
Feb 1, 20161
bobthefunny posted a message on Mono Black DrawLately I've been a far of the dies/sadcrifice package of values: Grim Haruspex, Harvester of Souls, Dark Prophecy, etc, though in the past I've been a huge fan of the Phyrexian Arena suite. It's really going to depend on your deck's strategy, how scalable, and how durable you need your draw to be.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
The phyrexian arena effects are great for slower grindier games where you expect removal to be aimed elsewhere. UB control could use them quite profitably.
Dark Confidant effects are great for decks that have a low curve, want to keep boards clear, and win fairly quickly, like stax decks.
The cheap spell suite like Sign in Blood and Night's Whisper are good at any point of a game, and can smooth out early turns, but are typically better in decks that don't rely on early plays. Decks that have lots of small drops may be too busy in the early game to cast them, and would prefer more hand-filling options like Promise of Power instead.
The sac-for-profit style is better for grindier value-oriented approaches, which wants to combo/synergy loop to gain increased value the longer the game goes on and the more resources you have available to crank into it.
MB card drawMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Broken
3 Necropotence
5 ad nauseum
Arena effects (life->draw)
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Underworld Connections
4 Graveborn Muse
5 Bloodgift Demon
5 Seizan, Perverter of Truth
8 baleful force
Bob package (life->draw)
2 Dark Confidant
2 Pain Seer
3 Dark TutelageSacrifice package (creatures->draw)
1 Skullclamp
1 Vampiric Rites
3 Grim Haruspex
3 Dark Prophecy
3 Infernal Tribute
4 Disciple of Bolas
4 Smothering Abomination
6 Harvester of Souls
Creature ETB (for reanimation)
3 Phyrexian Rager
4 Corpse Augur
4 Disciple of Bolas
6 phyrexian gargantuanRelated to Sac package
6 Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
Spell suite
2 Sign in Blood
2 Night's Whisper
3 Read the bones
4 Ambition's Cost
4 Ancient Craving
5 Moonlight Bargain
5 Promise of power
5 Wretched Confluence
1x Skeletal Scrying
2x Damnable pact -
Sep 12, 20142
perfekt posted a message on [[Duel Commander]] The Daily Duel: Duel Commander Commentaries with perfektHello friends,Posted in: 1 vs 1 Commander
Yes it is I, perfekt, here again to bring another commentary, back from the grave! And keeping in theme, I bring you a new Sidisi commentary testing the new potential of the BUG aggro general, enjoy!
Commentary
Cheers -
Oct 8, 20131
Ikaoru posted a message on [[Duel Commander]] [Competitive] Marath, Will of the WildPosted in: 1 vs 1 Commander
===============================================
My first reaction: "I saw this guy and fell in love!!!"
RGW Table of Contents RGW
I.RGWDeck HistoryRGW
Why Section
- Why do I choose Marath?
- I like a utility general. Correction, I LOVE utility general.
- He screams "I'm competitive" as soon I open up the spoiler that very day (original post date of this thread). So far, I love the way this guy's performance since day 1.
- Why do YOU like Marath?
- He's a swiss army general!
- You like a guy who keeps getting bigger as you cast him every time he dies.
- He's cheap and aggressive!
- He's one of the top contending deck since he's been spoiled.
- Why avoid playing Marath?
- You feel that Marath is just a linear general
- You just don't like a general-centric deck.
- You don't like its Naya color (RGW)
RGWStrengthsRGW
Marath's strength lies on his resources. Having the mana available is important to utilize him effectively. With his abilities, he can do a couple of tricks on and off combat during any turn as long as you have mana available.
Even a turn 2 3/3 Elemental is annoying enough and he can get bigger when using him right from a bigger army via Earthcraft to pinging anything from a creature to a player. Even without Marath being available due to being super expensive to not being permitted to cast, his deck can win without him... or having enough time to remove the threat before casting Marath again.
RGWWeaknessRGW
Marath's weakness is overextend and speed. The only way to slow Marath down is to hit his resources... the most common resources are his early turns such as Llanowar Elves to killing his enabler such as Aura Shard and Earthcraft.
One weakness is that we rely mostly on creatures. A tactical removal WILL slow us down either a Pyroclasm or Wrath of God. From a black player, a Toxic Deluge.
Another weakness is we rely too much on nonbasic lands. Blood cards can messed up your tempo unless you have at least a Forest or a Plains available.
Usually, it can be solve by dropping something that messed your opponent... like Teeg.
Comparing Other RGW Generals
- Gahiji, Honored One
- Hazezon Tamar
- Jacques le Vert
- Johan
- Mayael the Anima
- Palladia-Mors
- Rith, the Awakener
- Uril, the Miststalker
II.RGWCurrent DeckRGW
Midrange Ver. 4.0
Circa:03/20/2014
I'm still tweaking this guy... need to see if Naya can be a viable deck...
Design is based from Radha... but with W and as usual, the initial design is good stuff... Full aggro and all.
Card Choice
Creatures
Dryad Arbor: It's a land and a creature. Can be search by spells and lands. It can swing and it can block... heck it can carry your equipments.
Sorcery
1 cmc mana dorks
Weathered Wayfarer: Having him dropped on early turn can mean one thing... land resources... from Gaea's Cradle, manaland to Wasteland.
They're essential. They put Marath on turn 2 which determines the game and whether or not your opponent can deal early swings. In addition, their 1/1 status puts them on the clamped category.
Bloom Tender: Can give the maximum RGW mana
Gyre Sage: It's a tempo trick card. It can be bigger if you keep dropping bigger creatures or let Marath give him enough counters. It's like have a 2nd Cradle.
Lotus Cobra: Wonderfully works if you have a lot of fetchlands and creatures that finds lands.
Sakura-Tribe Elder: from land searchers to a swinging snake.
Sylvan Caryatid: few mana dorks that can survive a lot of sweepers.
Scavenging Ooze:If you have a reanimator meta, he's one of the key cards to disrupt them,
Fauna Shaman: a second Survival of the Fittest.
Gaddock Teeg: Usually prevents 4+ board control like Wrath of God.
Nightshade Peddler: a second death touch enabler like Basilisk Collar.
Stoneforge Mystic: can search all the answers via equipment.
Voice of Resurgence: another card that forces control players to rethink their move. Its token can be bigger.
Aven Mindcensor:In a competitive meta, tutoring something is essential. He negates that by forcing your opponent to search top 4 cards. His flash ability can surprise your opponent.
Brimaz, King of Oreskos: His evergrowing ability is one of the cards that doesn't force you to over extend. His tokens can do a lot of stuff other than attacking and blocking.
Courser of Kruphix: since my lands in the deck are almost 50%, he can provide a decent thinning of decks. A second Oracle.
Eternal Witness: Can bring back a lot of key cards in your grave.
Fiend Hunter: Can temporary remove threat.
Harmonic Sliver: Can pop artifact or enchantment.
Imperial Recruiter: Can search almost anyone on your deck.
Knight of the Reliquary: Can be a beater or a land tutor.
Mentor of the Meek: Since a lot of creature from my deck are 2 power or less, it can replenish your hand if you have mana available.
Wood Elves: Another ramp, block, swing and clamp target
Bloodbraid Elf: Free spells for 4 ranges from dork to 3cmc equipments.
Flametongue Kavu: Can pop something on the field.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence: In a mirror match or a deck that utilize mana dorks, it can stop them
Oracle of Mul Daya: Double land drop is essential... especially with 50% lands in the deck.
Acidic Slime: It's a bigger version of Harmonic Sliver.
Karmic Guide: Can bring back creatures on the field.
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Even it can't be a creature, it can deal a lot of damage with his 2nd and 3rd ability.
Reveillark: Can revive 2 creatures...
Primeval Titan: Best land searchers and the most expensive in the deck.
Combo
Spike Feeder
Restoration Angel
Archangel of Thune
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker[card
Zealous Conscripts
Fiery Justice: Can disrupt and kill early dorks.
Instants
Green Sun's Zenith: Can search in your deck from Dryad Arbor to Primeval Titan.
Chord of Calling: Can search ANY CREATURE in your deck and put it on the battlefield.
Enchantments
Eladamri's Call: Can tutor ANY CREATURE in your deck and add it to your hand.
Enlightened Tutor: Even if you have 5 enchantments or artifacts, it's enough to get them.
Nature's Claim: a removal
Path to Exile: a removal
Swords to Plowshares: a removal
Aura Shards: definitely a good card to drop.
Artifacts
Earthcraft: one of the MVP cards can make a lot of elementals and making Marath bigger and giving a lot of mana for you to spend.
Survival of the Fittest: an MVP card
Basilisk Collar: a decent card to be dropped in any turn. It gives Marath enough power to kill anything on the field.
Birthing Pod: Gives a lot of card replacement.
Skullclamp: Draw power!
=================================
Aggro Version 5.0
Enchantment Version 2.0
=================================
Midrange Aggro 1.0
III.RGWStrategyRGW
Basic Concept
Battling Others
It's easy for Marath to set up and go for the kill once you get used to its gameplay. Unfortunately, experienced opponents won't give you the chance thus either outrace you or disrupt it. There are three categories with different ways to fight against them.
Control
Their main strategy is to disrupt your ramps, rocks, dorks left and right. The best way is to let them waste their counters by baiting them with useless spells such as dropping a mana dork or two and you dropped either Gaddock Teeg or Voice of Resurgence If they're tapped out, be careful with counters like Daze or Force of Will other than that, they can disrupt only one spell especially during early turn..
Cavern of Souls and Vexing Shusher are your bffs in this situation. In addition, deck manipulation like Mirri's Guile and Sylvan Library must survive in this case. If they counter your hand, having Skullclamp can really help replenish your hand.
Aggro
Those are easy to deal with. If you have Marath by turn 2 or 3, then you can start pinging their creatures. bait to drop everything from their hand. Marath is even a powerhouse if you have deathtouch. With that in play, pinging any threats will be easy
The good thing with Aggro is they don't usually have a large creature... just small creatures used for combat utilities. Be careful with their burn spells. If they're not running red, they'll drop cheap creatures and start attacking. An example of that is Radha, Heir to Keld and Ezuri, Renegade Leader.
Tempo
Tempo is a type that utilize card advantage and/or control. An example of that is Animar, Soul of Elements which utilize cheap creatures to make it big and can either win with combo or a really really big boss. Another example is Geist of Saint Traft and
Zur the Enchanterwhich utilized control and using their abilities to deal damage or gain advantage.
The best way is to drop your resources asap. This is a rat race and you have to gain sufficient mana to cast Marath.
Gameplay
During your game, there will be a lot of different scenarios. All of your opponents are different but the fundamental principle are the same.
Early Game
Mainly focus on dropping mana dorks, the earlier the better for a turn 3 Marath. If Marath is cast by turn 3, your opponent will have to deal a 3/3 for 3. Once Marath is online, your opponent will have to deal Marath or taking out its mana sources.
If you have Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon, best advise to keep or search basic lands before casting him. Turn 2 Moon card can hinder most competitive decks which render their land useless unless R is within their color.
Against aggro, you're fine with early start as it's a race between two decks. Marath can simply deal with them since they're mostly weak during the start of the match.
Against control, they can't counter all of your spells. Unless they know where to hit. Cavern of Souls is usually your bff.
Mid Game
During the middle of the game, all you can do is swing as much as you can. Usually, Marath is your beater or using your mana dorks as beaters or back up as well. By then, you have to be carefull with sweepers. With Gaddock Teeg in play before turn 4, most of the sweepers like Damnation or Wrath of God will render "crap." He is one of your best asset in that game, not only sweepers but also anything noncreatures 4cmc or above.
Be very VERY careful with Toxic Deluge, Pyroclasm and etc. If you suspect that they're prepping for that card, you have to be careful how much creatures you put onto the field.
You have a handful of permission you can use during this game, Thalia, Pridemage, VoR can give problems to your opponents.
Late Game
By then and if you reach that far and long against your opponent, you should be prepping for win con.
Kiki+Conscript
Kiki+Angel
Those can be highly and proven effective win con. Because Kiki can create multiple tokens to swing at your opponent. Combo explanation is further down.
Archangel+Spike
Those works if you have more attackers to swing by for kill. In addition, with that combo, your opponent will have to deal with high life count or a really big creatures to deal. Combo explanation is further down.
If the combos are not available, you can use Karmic Guide to bring back Angel to bring back Kiki to start the infinite army.
Even if your combo isn't sufficient, you can deal damage from your guys.
Reminder: List of Combos
- Infinite Creatures
- Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker+Restoration Angel
- Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker+Zealous Conscripts
- With Kiki, it can create infinite creatures.
- Both cards must be on the field.
- With Angel, just target Kiki which comes back untapped after exile then do all over again.
- With Conscript, target Kiki which becomes untapped. Tap Kiki and create a token
- Counters and life for armies
- Archangel of Thune+Spike Feeder
- This combo requires both on the field.
- Remove a +1/+1 counter from Spike Feeder which let's you gain 2 life.
- With that 2 life gain, the Angel and other creatures that you control will get a +1/+1.
- Rinse and repeat.
- You can swing even an Angel for the win.
- Marath Unlimited
- Auriok Salvagers+Lion's Eye Diamond
- Both creatures must be on the field and Marath can be on Command Zone or in play.
- Tap LED for WWW mana.
- Salvagers can spend 2/3 mana to bring back LED to hand leaving W.
- Cast LED and tap for WWW which you have WWWW.
- Rinse and repeat for until you have suffecient W to get bring back LED multiple times.
- With enough W, you can tap LED for more R or G
- With a high mana of RGW, you can use it to cast Marath to either deal 1 damage to your opponent or make any number of tokens of different size as long as you have enough mana to cast Marath and use its ability multiple times.
- Land, Artifact and Enchantment Destruction
- Reveillark+Karmic Guide+Mirror Entity+Acidic Slime
- Make sure that you have Lark and others available. Preferrable the combos are on the graveyard except for Lark. Combo:
- Evoke Lark which dies and go to the graveyard.
- Lark's ability trigger bringing back Karmic Guide and Mirror Entity and with Guide's ability bringing back Lark.
- Make a bunch of stacks to Mirror Entity's 0 cost where everything is 0/0
- All your creature dies due to SBA's 0/0, making Lark bringing back Karmic and Acidic Slime which in turn used the Slime's etb to destroy any of the three legal targets on the field.
- Creature dies with Mirror Entity's ability still on the stack
- Do this route until ME's ability is empty.
- The last revival would be Reveillark, Karmic Guide and another creature like Mirror Entity.
- Note: This combo also works if Reveillark and Mirror Entity are on the battlefield.
- Artifact and Enchantment Destruction
- Reveillark+Karmic Guide+Mirror Entity+Harmonic Sliver
- Same combo route as above.
- Enchantment+Marath Move
- Cathars' Crusade+Earthcraft+Boss
- All three cards must be on the field and a single basic land available for Earthcraft.
- Tap Marath or any creature on the field to create a token from Marath.
- That token enters the battlefield which triggers Crusade that gives +1/+1 counters to every creature that you control including Marath and the newly arrived 1/1 token which turns into a 2/2 and.
- Use that new token to tapped itself for Earthcraft on a basic land which use its mana to make a new token.
- Rinse and repeat which makes new tokens and makes every creature that you have bigger.
- You can swing and attack with all of your tokens.
IV.RGWChange LogRGW
03/02/2014
+1 Scavenging Ooze
03/02/2014
+1 Archangel of Thune
+1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
+1 Courser of Kruphix
+1 Fyndhorn Elves
+1 Gyre Sage
+1 Imperial Recruiter
+1 Karmic Guide
+1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
+1 Mentor of the Meek
+1 Nightshade Peddler
+1 Oracle of Mul Daya
+1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
+1 Restoration Angel
+1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
+1 Spike Feeder
+1 Sylvan Caryatid
+1 Wood Elves
+1 Zealous Conscripts
+1 Aura Shards
+1 Curse of Predation
+1 Earthcraft
+1 Chord of Calling
+1 Enlightened Tutor
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Path to Exile
+1 Garruk Wildspeaker
+1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
+1 Fiery Justice
+1 Lands
+1 Lands
-1 Basking Rootwala
-1 Mother of Runes
-1 Wild Nacatl
-1 Fleecemane Lion
-1 Flinthoof Boar
-1 Grand Abolisher
-1 Phyrexian Revoker
-1 Scavenging Ooze
-1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-1 Loxodon Smiter
-1 Magus of the Moon
-1 Silverblade Paladin
-1 Vithian Renegades
-1 Vengevine
-1 Sun Titan
-1 Flame Slash
-1 Natural Order
-1 Char
-1 Combust
-1 Lightning Bolt
-1 Parch
-1 Price of Progress
-1 Oblivion Ring
-1 Sylvan Library
-1 Sword of Feast and Famine
-1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-1 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Ajani Vengeant
-1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
-1 Gideon Jura
Aggro Version
10/26/2013
+1 Banisher Priest
+1 Basking Rootwala
+1 Fleecemane Lion
+1 Flinthoof Boar
+1 Magus of the Moon
+1 Vengevine
+1 Domri Rade
-1 Fire Imp
-1 Gyre Sage
-1 Loam Lion
-1 Mirror Entity
-1 Ranger of Eos
-1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
-1 Mizzium Mortars
Still Needing:
+1 Acidic Slime
+1 Loam Lion
+1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
+1 Experiment One
+1 Imperial Recruiter
+1 Joraga Treespeaker
+1 Karmic Guide
+1 Kird Ape
+1 Leonin Relic-Warder
+1 Radha, Heir to Keld
+1 Ranger of Eos
+1 Restoration Angel
+1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
+1 Thundermaw Hellkite
+1 Tin Street Hooligan
+1 Boom // Bust
+1 Destructive Revelry
10/20/2013
+1 Bloom Tender
+1 Fauna Shaman
+1 Fire Imp
+1 Grand Abolisher
+1 Gyre Sage
+1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
+1 Loam Lion
+1 Lotus Cobra
+1 Loxodon Smiter
+1 Mirror Entity
+1 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Vithian Renegades
+1 Weathered Wayfarer
+1 Combust
+1 Eladamri's Call
+1 Lightning Bolt
+1 Mizzium Mortar
-1 Basking Rootwala
-1 Experiment One
-1 Flinthoof Boar
-1 Imperial Recruiter
-1 Karmic Guide
-1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
-1 Kird Ape
-1 Magus of the Moon
-1 Saffi Eriksdotter
-1 Thundermaw Hellkite
-1 Vengevine
-1 Zealous Conscripts
-1 Destructive Revelry
-1 Path to Exile
-1 Worldly Tutor
-1 Blood Moon
-1 Chained to the Rocks
Still Needing:
+1 Sylvan Safekeeper
+1 Fyndhorn Elves
+1 Kird Ape
+1 Vengevine
+1 Basking Rootwalla
+1 Karmic Guide
+1 Tin Street Hooligan
+1 Radha, Heir to Keld
+1 Imperial Recruiter
+1 Steward of Valeron
+1 Imperial Recruiter
+1 Flinthoof Boar
+1 Banisher Priest
10/10/2013
+1 Basking Rootwalla
+1 Kird Ape
+1 Imperial Recruiter
+1 Knight of the Reliquary
+1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
+1 Thundermaw Hellkite
+1 Zealous Conscripts
+1 Flame Slash
+1 Destructive Revelry
+1 Parch
+1 Price of Progress
+1 Worldly Tutor
+1 Chained to the Rocks
+1 Oblivion Ring
+1 Ajani Vengeant
+1 Land
-1 Acidic Slime
-1 Hero of Bladehold
-1 Huntmaster of the Fells
-1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
-1 Mirror Entity
-1 Restoration Angel
-1 Stormbreath Dragon
-1 Sylvan Safekeeper
-1 Weathered Wayfarer
-1 Lignify
-1 Mirri's Guile
-1 Crop Rotation
-1 Eladamri's Call
-1 Enlightened Tutor
-1 Domri Rade
-1 Harmonize
Missing space for cards:
10/07/2013
+1 Acidic Slime
+1 Fiend Hunter
+1 Gaddock Teeg
+1 Harmonic Sliver
+1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
+1 Mirror Entity
+1 Mother of Runes
+1 Ranger of Eos
+1 Restoration Angel
+1 Reveillark
+1 Saffi Eriksdotter
+1 Sylvan Safekeeper
+1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
+1 Voice of Resurgence
+1 Weathered Wayfarer
+1 Birthing Pod
+1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-1 Anger
-1 Arc-Slogger
-1 Boon Satyr
-1 Brawn
-1 Cliffrunner Behemoth
-1 Firedrinker Satyr
-1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
-1 Hero of Oxid Ridge
-1 Krosan Grip
-1 Lava Hounds
-1 Solemn Simulacrum
-1 Vithian Renegades
-1 Wolfir Silverheart
-1 Land Tax
-1 Lightning Bolt
-1 Land
-1 Land
=================================
Enchantment Version
10/10/2013
+1 Expedition Map
+1 Chained to the Rocks
+1 City of Solitude
+1 Earth Craft
+1 Enchantress's Presence
+1 Fertile Ground
+1 Lignify
+1 Mana Echoes
+1 Mirri's Guile
+1 Prismatic Omen
+1 Squirrel Nest
+1 Crop Rotation
+1 Faithless Looting
+1 Idyllic Tutor
+1 Replenish
+1 Sylvan Scrying
-1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
-1 Mesa Enchantress
-1 Verduran Enchantress
-1 Boom // Bust
-1 Pyroclasm
-1 Skyshroud Claim
-1 Mana Tithe
-1 Naya Charm
-1 Path to Exile
-1 Rith's Charm
-1 Wear // Tear
-1 Ghostly Prison
-1 Karmic Justice
-1 Mana Flare
-1 Land
-1 Land
Some cards that I want but didn't have the space
1x Cathars' Crusade
1x Parallax Wave
1x Naya Charm
1x Seal of Primordium
1x Eternal Witness
1x Wear // Tear
V.RGWMatchesRGW
- Anax and Cymede
- Arcum Dagsson
- Animar, Soul of Elements
- Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
- Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
- Ezuri, Renegade Leader
- Geist of Saint Traft
- Godo, Bandit Warlord
- Karador, Ghost Chieftain
- Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
- Maelstrom Wanderer
- Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
- Oona, Queen of the Fae
- Prime Speaker Zegana
- Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
- Purphoros, God of the Forge
- Radha, Heir to Keld
- Seton, Krosan Protector
- Sigarda, Host of Herons
- Skullbriar, the Walking Grave
- Sygg, River Cutthroat
- Thassa, God of the Sea
- Thraximundar
- Vendilion Clique
- Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
- Zur the Enchanter
Examples of Bad Matchups so Far
VI.RGW[VS Popular Commanders]RGW
URGAnimar, Soul of ElementsURG
He's a 50/50 depending how fast he can combo on early turn. The first thing you do is to get rid of his resources. Marath can't deal Animar directly because of his protection from white but there are ways to get around it.
The best way is disruption namely hitting his early resources like Llanowar Elves. The quicker you get Jitte or Swords, the better. If those mentioned artifacts aren't available in your deck, Basilisk Collar and Nightshade Peddler are the best way to ping one or all of them except Animar.
BGWDoran, The Siege TowerBGW
Depending on the build, Doran is annoying. He has discard so you must drop your resources. Be careful with Toxic Deluge so I'd suggest don't overextend unless it's necessary. Doran can survive while most of the creatures in our deck can't since our toughness of our cheap creatures don't match up with Doran's 5 toughnessxpower.
In the end, you have to start killing him asap.
WUGrand Arbiter Augustin IVWU
Bit easy if you have dropped mana dorks in first turn... and Voice of Resurgence or Gaddock Teeg on turn 2. By then, your opponent will be on their toes. With Teeg, they can cast their precious Wrath of God or expensive noncreature spells like Cryptic Command. With Voice of Resurgence, they can't spend too much counters when he's on the field. The more spells he cast during our turn with VoR on the field, our token count will be bigger and multiple. Usually Marath deck's mana curve is lower than theirs GAAIV's so dropping creatures and hitting your opponent will creature pressure.
Just remember VoR and Teeg are your MVP in this games.
You have to remember that GAAIV's stat is 2/3, you can simply ping him with Marath.
BIname, Death Aspect B
To me, it's a hard matchup. Other players like Lyserg managed to overcame him and they explained a couple of things:
- Scavening Ooze is bit too slow because he can target one creature at a time.
- Angel of finality is amazing against Iname however, it's too slow because we have to search him.
- Loaming Shaman just simply refueling Iname's ability if he's recasted again. However, drawing Iname player revive most of his creatures usually by following turn.
- Linvala, Keeper of Silence actually helps the game. She stops Kuro, Pitlord from targeting a lot of the creatures. If Horobi, Death's Wail is on the field, Kuro can simply be "pay 1 life: destroy target creature."
URGMaelstrom WandererURG
Dealing with Maelstrom Wanderer can be annoying. He usually can cast as early as turn 2 or turn 3 if he drops his resources. When he cast, he usually cast whatever he can cascade. The best way is to fully utilize artifact destructions like Qasali Pridemage and Acidic Slime.
Gaddock Teeg usually stops most of his noncreature spells like Thran Dynamo and Wildfire. His highly expensive cards (ie Devastation and All is Dust is what'll kill Marath.
Aven Mindcensor helps because some of the MW decks use ramps like Rampant Growth and fetchlands.
RGWMarath, Will of the Wild RGW
Facing another Marath is tricky. Depending on the build, you can win by casting Marath. However, you need to take out your opponent's resources. They rely on casting their own Marath asap for their own win con or utilize their own combo against you. Best way is to take out dorks and enablers ASAP.
In a mirror match, Turn 2 Marath usually spells bad news to anyone. In addition, Linvala can turn things around. She stops mana dorks and Marath himself and even Kiki.
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB
It's easy on us because we can lower their life faster than they can regain. You have to be really really careful with the usual black's discards and sweepers. Turn 3 Doomsday is bit annoying because they can quickly gain the upper hand.
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher BRG
GUPrime Speaker ZeganaGU
VII.RGWMatch ScoreRGW
Season 1
Last Update: 25/11/2013
First Entry: 08/10/2013
Total Games: 74: 43-00-31
Win :D: 58.11%
Tie :-/: 00.00%
Lost :(: 41.90%
None
- 02-00-00 // Anax and Cymede
- 02-00-02 // Animar, Soul of Elements
- 03-00-04 // Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
- 02-00-00 // Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
- 02-00-00 // Geist of Saint Traft
- 01-00-02 // Godo, Bandit Warlord
- 02-00-00 // Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
- 02-00-03 // Maelstrom Wanderer
- 07-00-01 // Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
- 02-00-00 // Oona, Queen of the Fae
- 02-00-00 // Prime Speaker Zegana
- 01-00-02 // Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
- 02-00-02 // Purphoros, God of the Forge
- 02-00-01 // Radha, Heir to Keld
- 03-00-04 // Seton, Krosan Protector
- 02-00-02 // Sigarda, Host of Herons
- 02-00-01 // Skullbriar, the Walking Grave
- 01-00-01 // Thassa, God of the Sea
- 02-00-02 // Thraximundar
- 00-00-02 // Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
- 01-00-02 // Zur the Enchanter
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Jan 2, 20141
Gaka posted a message on [[Duel Commander]] Duel Commander Primer (Introduction, Ban List, Rules, & More) [12-01-2017 Update]Posted in: 1 vs 1 CommanderQuote from BiefallThe reports keep on coming and Mimeo is nowhere to be found, I guess I should stick to Prossh or Geist :\
This doesn't necessarily mean that the deck is bad - simply that it's unplayed. There are not enough tournaments (sample sizes) to be able to play every decent archetype and have them perform as expected.
Mimeo is strong, and if you're confident enough in it there's little reason to suddenly switch to a different general or playstyle. -
Dec 11, 2013
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kwiznek posted a message on [[Duel Commander]] New DCM Meta: What changes to the ban list do you expect to see?Some modest opinions, for your consideration:Posted in: 1 vs 1 Commander
Zur is objectively the best deck in the format. He stifles format diversity. He is the enabler.
Rest in Peace and Nevermore are legitimate silver bullets that other decks should be allowed access to. They are in no way banworthy. Plus there are way worse offenders still in the format that would absolutely need to be addressed before looking at Zur targets.
Top 8 results can be misleading because duel commander is still considered a semi-casual format. Players still bring uncompetitive or fringe decks to tournaments. Due to luck of pairings, bad decks can squeeze in. Alternatively, even the best deck can still lose games to a bad deck given luck, misplay, etc. However, if the format was sanctioned and had real prize support and a large player base, then top 8 results would start to mean more.
What i'm trying to say is, why do you need to see Zur as X/8 top 8 slots to know he's the best deck? I don't need to see it. I already know. Alternatively, how often does Oath of Druids make it into a top 8 slot? Rarely right? Does that mean the card is fair and balanced? Cards and commanders have impact that reaches beyond just their top 8 placing... - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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Well considering you don't want to use Vines on their turn, Veil is really friggin good if it saves your pressure/creature and replaces itself. There are so many applications where you can sequence them to misuse their removal/spells/abilities. Have you guys literally read, you and your permanents gain hexproof until the end of turn from u and b and spells can't be countered too? It also stops Cryptic and possibly draws you a card. Like what more do you want...
I don't know about you but Kitchen Finks is kind of not good right now. Especially when Burn decks don't swing as much now with the inclusion of Light up the Stage and Skewer the Critics. It simply doesn't do enough of anything. It also doesn't block Phoenix and swings for 3 for a 3 drop. You seem like a fan but honestly... its not even a jack of all trades because it doesn't do anything decent in this meta.
If you are asking to side in more threats like Kitchen Finks over Vei- sorry but please stop disappointing me.
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I think the only pretender is you. You have branded us as spikes and mentioned disparaging comments against budget only players in the past. However I believe the intentions of these comments were not against the players but the notion to refuse to try and optimize. Why can't we do both? By allowing us to try and play and discuss Mono Green Stompy and make it the best it can be while still having budget options. I don't see why that's bad at all or pointless. How can you pretend to try and call us Spikes and exclusive when we have been inclusive of budget options. You cannot say the same after you have bashed our intentions several times discourteously while muttering "but you can play what you like" in the end. Please try to see your hypocrisy. Mention we have a "spike exclusive mentality or get out" but you have the reverse "budget only mentality or get out".
You have literally said nothing new in your ramblings. I don't have to remind you, adding fetches to the this deck still makes it pretty dang budget in Modern. If you are so fervently stuck on budget, I'd suggest you not play Steel Leaf Champion either because it is at a nice 5 dollars a pop which is probably more expensive than half the deck if you are playing budget.
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I just like playing Mono Green and Aggro so that's why I play this deck. I don't understand why you sound so offended when I ask that there be an optimized version. I would definitely list a budget version as well but why deter people trying to make a better list? There's plenty of diversity in Modern and being tier 3 is still viable.
Who isn't admitting this deck is a cheap deck? I don't know... You make so many straw man arguments, I don't know if they are rhetorical or if I should respond to them. No one is saying this is the best aggro deck in Modern. Why would offering an optimized list make no sense? It makes sense to add the fetches, I literally provided a bunch of evidence on why while you have gone "boo hoo I don't want to spend money on my turd." Also splashing colors is fine as well, I just like Mono Green, there's a splash list on the primer. I don't know man. You sound like you are just rambling. Even if you buy the fetches, this deck is still going to cost you less than most competitive standard decks...
@MagicYio
I like full art Dungroves. No Dismembers because I like my Dungroves and play 12 one drops. Depending on the list, there are only around 4 creatures that turn Rhonas on without any additional pumping assuming they survive. Just really not worth the investment imo
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Long time ***** poster here. I've been wanting to post a guide of sorts for a while now. I have my share of criticisms and perhaps haven't addressed them correctly in the past. Here is an attempt to get a chain of posts going to hopefully provide some insight to other players.
Hot Takes Hopefully Settled
Which 3 drop?
With Dominaria's release, the deck will be getting probably the strongest inclusion since probably Avatar of the Resolute in Steel Leaf Champion. If there is some debate whether or not it replaces Leatherback Baloth, there shouldn't be. It is hands down better. It can't be blocked by Mana Dorks, Lingering Soul Tokens, Snapcaster, Most of the Humans deck, Baral/Goblin E, Etched Champion/most of the Affinity, etc. etc. It also trades with Tasigur and Gurmag Angler. The extra power is much better than the toughness because this is an aggro deck and you do want to accelerate the clock.
Play Fetches for Narnam?/Budget Discussion
The answer is yes. There should be no discussion if this deck should stick to budget or not. If you can play better cards or build a better list, go for it, you do not need to adhere to any budget restrictions. If you can spare around $200 dollars for a playset of Windswept Hearth and Wooded Foothills,it would significantly improve this deck for Narnam Renegade. Narnam Renegade makes E1 better, Rancor better, pump spells better, and helps with the curve as well. The deathtouch helps against some problems in the past like early goyfs/Tasigur/angler. Even with the fetches, this deck would still be considered budget relative to most modern decks. Getting these fetches also opens avenues for other modern decks as well. If you would like to improve your decklist and collection, I would highly recommend you invest in fetches. Oh yea, Narnam should be a staple for this deck unless you want to run a CoCo/Splash build.
Importance of Dryad Militant
Some people are trying out CoCo builds, for this to be happen, you need to cut some cards. It should not be Dryad Militant. I am going to disagree with some minor points in the main post. Dryad Militant is not a flex card and Kessig Prowler is a not going to make your list. You cut E1 and Narnam before Dryad Militant because Militant is so strong against Jund, Control, Pyromancer, and Storm.
Rhonas is a Staple?
With Steel Leaf Champion being released, the 3 drop slot is just so stacked and its going to be your least played slot. You need to pick your cards wisely and Rhonas the Indomitable can be really good in some situations and completely blank in some others. I am honestly not a fan of a card like this but I can definitely see it in some lists but it's not what I define as a staple. A staple should be a card that is played generally without special circumstances. Rhonas is a flex slot card and we have quite a few in our 3 slot like Dungrove Elder, Groundbreaker, and Boggart Ram-Gang.
All in all, I hope you find some of this helpful and if you disagree, feel free to let me know.
Here is the list I prefer:
12 Forest
2 Treetop Village
4 Windswept Hearth
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures: 28
4 Dryad Militant
4 Experiment One
4 Narnam Regenade
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Steel Leaf Champion
2 Dungrove Elder
2 Aspect of Hydra
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
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Here is something to consider: Words or Language are mere tools we use to communicate. Their meaning changes over time based on what's useful.
Sarcasm is a literary device to convey irony to mock people. That sounds right. But it is very commonly used for jovial humor by the same mechanism except with different intentions. You seem to be unable to define sarcasm in this context without the malicious contempt but it can and does exist without it. You are interpreting this definition of sarcasm- something you agreed you could not do. Sarcasm exists without the intent to express contempt. Is it possible for him to be jovial? Perhaps unlikely, but not impossible. He says this is how he communicates then you just kind of take it as is. And you can reference his previous post which perhaps was condescending but you are still interpreting this contempt.
We already agreed you cannot interpret emotions or intent from text. He could have been condescending or jovial. It really doesn't matter.
But EY YOOOOOO you actually "asked for opinions" on Yisan.
Also since you really love to google definitions.
"Secondly i never suggested Yisan. I asked for opinions on it. "
Suggest by definition is to put something forward for consideration.
It kind of sounds like you were asking our consideration or opinions on it. But I don't know anything about that.
Leaving this thread for a long while. I apologize to anyone actually trying to discuss this deck even though I don't think there's much to discuss right now. Have fun with your cardboard yall.
Infraction issued for flaming. --CavalryWolfPack
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I can go on about how even asking about Yisan in this deck is just sad but I don't know- I feel just with what I've said- I'd be labeled the stompy thread douche- not that I haven't been already labeled that anyways.
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Take out tap lands. Add lands. Add some more lands.
1
Rhonas's Last Stand is also not what this deck needs. I'm sure it's good enough to find a place in some lists but it doesn't offer anything better than current options considering the draw back. I don't think we can expect the new creatures to get much stronger P/T wise or rather they won't get bigger than they already are without considerable draw backs. What I want and I reasonably think is viable with the constraints of balanced card design is new creatures with comparable P/T but with extra utility such as haste or more recently Narnam Renegade's counter/death touch. You know- Trample/Vigilance some synergy with other cards- something extra. I want it to more easily triggered because as good as Narnam Renegade is for me, I prefer not to run fetchlands and can definitely understand why some people won't use the newer build with Renegades/Fetches over older builds.
That being said, I really don't know where to go with this deck. In Modern, every deck has a bad match up- it's just some decks have more ability do something about it. Due to just being a straight forward aggro deck in a color that lacks sideboard silver bullets- Mono Green Stompy just doesn't have the agency to fight against bad match ups. I think going forward- other colors need to be considered and if it means cutting what some perceive as vital mono green stompy cards then that's a decision you have to make. It's a similar environment with Naya Zoo/Naya Burn, although it's more definitive what is what, there is still some gray area. If you want to splash green for some slower more resilient threats/removal/sideboard tech or red for bolt, try it out. In my opinion, don't worry about staying stompy or not. Try out cards you like or think will be good. Just understand that the current state of Mono Green Stompy is very limited in what it is able to do.
Some extra bit (since I feel like posting today)
The current bad match ups:
Affinity- Green actually has an okay sideboard for this match up but this deck has been good for almost all of modern's history despite the great sideboard hate available. Our mainboard has no way to race or control so we are really betting on our opponent's drawing terribly or play even more terribly. There are so many cards you don't want to see; Cranial Plating, Etched Champion, Vault Skirge, Arcbound Ravager, Steel Overseer, Master of Etherium- heck even Signal Pest is good against us.
Elves- Again our lack of removal is really bad. They have the chump blockers to usually live to get the overrun if we don't get some nut draw or something. Our sideboard for this is even worse since it's either more Dismembers or Prey Upon which is usually not enough.
Tron Variants- Both traditional tron and eldrazi tron just suck for us. We aren't reliably fast enough to beat them down before they can just play a big spell that beats us down. Eldrazi Tron is a little different but still has the tools to just be a nightmare. Again we want them to just draw poorly or misplay as our saving grace.
A lot of other match ups that may be tough can get a lot easier with experience and skill. While the ones above- there isn't much we can do other than play our best and hope your opponent draws poorly.
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