This is what I've been testing. It's been doing great, especially against the B/W Westvale decks. The synergy between Traverse the Ulvenwald, Vessel of Nascency, and Deathcap Cultivator is just insane. I expect Traverse to skyrocket once it catches on. Being able to smooth out your mana in the early turns and then fetch any creature you need in the late game is just so good. And delirium is hilariously easy to achieve in this deck. Between Pulse, Greenwarden, Den Protector, and Darkdwellers, you have an engine that makes every card in your grave usable multiple times, and you can chain value all day long. The amount of card draw, and card searching allows us to get away with a low land count of 23. Virtually any hand with a combination of draw/land search spells, or deathcap and at least 2 mana is keepable. Just a few notes on cards that I cut:
Sin Prodder: Great card, and it was a hard cut but I just needed more removal to make it to the late game where the deck really shines.
Gitrog Monster: Was just too cute and the deck is really mana hungry
Ob Nixis: The double black was a little tough and I was weak to planeswalkers so I had to cut him for Dragonlord Kolaghan who also synergizes with Traverse really well when you hit 7 mana.
Arlinn Kord: Easiest cut. Just really did not pull her weight. Often times, she would just rot in my hand for fear of paying for a 4 mana 2/2 wolf...
Athreos, God of Passage / Abzan Ascendancy both look good with this kind of deck. I like Athreos a little better though since I can hit him with CoCo or Leap. (EDIT: Important note... Athreos is nice because Leap and CoCo can hit him, but he's a bit of a nonbo with Lili's Emblem, If you're planning on hitting her emblem Ascendency is better. With Athreos it's good up until then and you just need to kill him off or not play him when you have an emblem.)
I think Fleshbag Marauder should be recognized as an absolute must if you're going to run lili and CoCo in the same deck though.
Also, I suspect that in the new format token killers are going to be super important. Minister of Pain could be really strong sideboard... possibly even a singleton in the maindeck. EDIT: Updated list and included sideboard
Great list. I love the inclusion of Evolutionary Leap. I will have to give this a try. Some insight from my testing so far:
Lili's ultimate is actually exceedingly rare to hit, so I believe you made the correct choice in going with Atheros over Ascendency.
Fleshbag Maurader is great in a more midrange/creature control type strategy so he works great in your deck, but I'm not a fan of him in my Sultai deck, at least not mainboard. He can also get cute with Black Cat.
I have not run into tokens once so far, so minister is definitely a sideboard choice for me, but if tokens every becomes a thing he is definitely considerable for the main.
One final thought: WHY NO HORNET NEST?! That thing is an absolute power house against any deck not running black removal for it! It seems like it fits even better into your build than mine since you have a bigger top end that you would like to get to.
Tormenting Voice is honestly the card I was most interested in doubling with the goggles. Have you tried it out here?
I addressed the issue earlier in the thread. Cards like Magmatic Insight and Tormenting voice are just too low impact to run because most of the time they just are not worth casting without goggles. You can argue that pitching land might work, but in this deck you pretty much want to hit every land drop up to turn 7+ with so many X spells and Big ol' Atarka. With the goggles you might be able to create more of an advantantage, but goggles are surprisingly fast at closing out games. Ive never really found myself in the position of not having enough burn. Most of the time, the issue is having enough time to double all the burn spells.
There is a problem with this strategy in that burn wants to be fast, but goggles gives you late game power. I would rather play something BR. You could use mass removal and spot removal as a way to survive to the late game, then use Goggles and other card draw to draw into a critical mass of burn.
Cards like Magmatic Insight and Tormenting Voice work quite nicely with goggles, since you don't have to pay the additional cost for the copied spell.
That's the beauty of the deck. Most burn decks have to choose whether to burn out the creatures or go for the dome. In this deck, the burn is for keeping the board clear, but once goggles come out, the burn is doing double duty. there's no need for black. The burn is plenty of removal as it is. Secondly,in my first iteration of the deck, I tried out both of the draw spells you're talking about. while they were sweet with the goggles out, before that moment, they were too sub par. For us, ditching lands is not a good thing until turn 7+, unlike a regular burn deck which could start discarding them around turn 4 or 5. Even with goggles out, that's still 4 cards for 2, and your goggles are spent for the turn. Not the greatest...
Of course burn can kill creatures, but sometimes your opponent has too big creatures. Besides, sweepers are the main reason I'd be looking to play black anyway. As of now I can't see this deck performing very well. It's especially weak if you goggles get destroyed. It has too low density of burn spells to consistently goldfish a kil early, and it can't protect itself well against big creatures.
I concede the fact that midrange is the deck's weakness, but I have seven maindeck answers to big creatures, not counting any of the smaller burn spells I can double with goggles. And if your meta is really midrange you can swap out the Fiery Impulses and Magma Jets for Roast and Spite of Mogis. Spite of Mogis is comparable to Murderous Cut in that it needs cards in the grave to be a good deal, but that's pretty easy for a burn deck. And Seige Rhinos go to the same grave, whether they are getting Ultimate Priced or Roasted. Right now there is a pretty large diversity of burn to choose from. If you want to hit control you can go with Exquisite Firecraft. My point is, you can tailor the burn to your meta. I just happen to be in a sea of Gobbos and Elves where I test. I don't see a point in further diluting the mana to go Jund. And replacing green means having to wait 5 turns to drop goggles. Then HOPEFULLY you have some red spells to be casting, if you're not stuck holding a hero's downfall instead.
There is a problem with this strategy in that burn wants to be fast, but goggles gives you late game power. I would rather play something BR. You could use mass removal and spot removal as a way to survive to the late game, then use Goggles and other card draw to draw into a critical mass of burn.
Cards like Magmatic Insight and Tormenting Voice work quite nicely with goggles, since you don't have to pay the additional cost for the copied spell.
That's the beauty of the deck. Most burn decks have to choose whether to burn out the creatures or go for the dome. In this deck, the burn is for keeping the board clear, but once goggles come out, the burn is doing double duty. there's no need for black. The burn is plenty of removal as it is. Secondly,in my first iteration of the deck, I tried out both of the draw spells you're talking about. while they were sweet with the goggles out, before that moment, they were too sub par. For us, ditching lands is not a good thing until turn 7+, unlike a regular burn deck which could start discarding them around turn 4 or 5. Even with goggles out, that's still 4 cards for 2, and your goggles are spent for the turn. Not the greatest...
So I played your deck for a bit. I loved all the high damage burn spells. They do a great job of keeping the board clear, however, I had a really tough time closing out games when most of the spells can only target creatures. Also, if you're not going to run creatures yourself, then you better well be playing Anger of the gods. It's one of the best sweepers at the moment thanks to Raptor, Elves, and Goblins, and it only gets sweeter when its doing 6 damage with goggles and exiling pesky Dragons. Personally, the blue and white splash were not doing much for me. I prefer a green splash for the likes of Atarka's Command and Atarka's Monuments to help you ramp to 5 for goggles and beyond 5 for those lethal fireballs. A singleton Dragonlord Atarka is also a nice addition. Finally, Volcanic Vision seemed way too costly and mostly did nothing. If you want a big end all spell, you might try Revel of the Fallen God if you go with the Green Splash. I built a Red/Green version here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/616538-rg-goggles since we can talk about the new cards in standard deck creation.
So the basic idea of the deck is to get the goggles out then burn your opponent out. I can see an argument for splashing blue over green and going a counter burn route, but the faster the goggles are out, the better your doubled burn spells will be at controlling the board while still pressuring your opponent's life total. Atarka's Command is the real all star of the deck. Because it is so often used in aggressive decks, people forget it can be a ramp spell as well. Combined with the Monuments, you can cast Goggles early on then just go on the burn plan or maybe you can cast huge fireballs or Atarka himself. Our backup is attacking with 4/4 dragon monuments or multiplying your spells with Chandra She also serves as repeatable kill spells against tokens, elves, and gobbos or just straight card advantage vs. control.
Edit: Made some changes.
Mainboard: I traded the singleton spite of Mogis for a second commune with the gods. It really gives the deck a lot more reach and if you can cast one with goggles out, it usually means gg.
Sideboard: I traded the walkers for 2 Stormbreath Dragons and 3 Gaea's Revenge to give control a headache, especially when they've sided out all their creature removal.
I agree about the card draw because the deck can sometimes run out of gas. However, this is not the type of deck to be playing cards like Treasure Cruise/Divination. It plays like a tempo/aggro deck, so maybe something like Bident of Thassa? I'm not really sure. Also I agree on taking out one Lili, although for a different reason. Flipping a new Lili when I already have the walker out is a non existent issue. Most of the time you aren't working towards her ultimate, rather, you are just gaining incremental card advantage. If they flip a new Lili, you can use the walker to bring back creature Lili. The real reason to drop her count is that she makes a bad late game play. Or my opponents board doesn't really care about her.
So this is a tempo deck built around Liliana, Heretical Healer and collected company. The idea behind the deck is to pair Liliana with high power creatures so that your opponent has to make a choice between killing Lili and taking the damage from our beatsticks or killing the high power creatures and flipping Lili who can then recur your beatsticks. Nautalis and Frost Walker are your main beaters. Their drawback is used as a strength in this deck. They dodge exile spells like Abzan charm while giving you death triggers for Lili. Frost walkers even manage to dodge bile blight. Yasova is the third beater. She can steal any one of the amazing 3 CMC creautes in standard right now from the flip walkers to Courser, Fleecemane, Raptor, Rabblemaster etc... Since we play with such low cost creatures, it is easy to get sweeped by an end hostilities, outclassed by dragons, or locked out of the game due to something like Elspeth. So the deck really hates on high CMC cards and noncreature spells through Stubborn Denial/Disdainful stroke/Stratus Dancer. You can also recover from sweeps with collected company which even grabs Thassa to make things unblockable (Just don't forget to never target Nautalis or Frost Walker!). Sideboard choices all seem pretty obvious.
Strategy:
Vs. Aggro: Trade 1 for 1 then start recurring your creatures. Bring in Hornet's Nest/Executioners
Vs. Control: The deck is made to out tempo control. Keep applying constant pressure and keep up your counters.
Vs. Midrange: This is probably the challenging matchup. Much better matchup postboard with nests and executioners again, with reclamation sages as needed. Strokes also keep the Rhino's at bay.
Vs. Combo: This is standard.
I agree with Prismatic Elf here, except on one condition: If you are a controlling deck that can play whip. You could run a creature base of Courser of Kruphix, Satyr Wayfinder, New Sidisi, and Tasigur. All value creatures that can easily fit into a sultai control shell.
This is what I'm testing at the moment. A deck that can play like your average token deck or take the grindy midrange battle. Frost walker has just been an all star. Early pressure vs. control and it forces your opponent to keep in spot removal when that's really the last thing they want to be doing against tokens. Even the midrange green decks are going to take a few hits before they can get their game going. I think I really found the home for Ojutai's Command. A lot of players want to jam it into control because they want it to be cryptic command. It has a much more mid range-y feel to it after I got to play with it a bit. This deck abuses the first ability by being able to return any of our creatures while countering fatties that would normally give us trouble like Polukranos or Doomwake Giant. Finally, there's a long game package for the more grindy games in Narset, Treasure Cruise, Secure the Wastes, and Commune with Lava (Which has been awesome in testing as a 1 of for that extra reach).
I'm really liking it. The only thing that puzzles me is why elvish mystic? You top off your curve at 4. After that he's only a 1/1 that hinders the effectiveness of collected companies and just a terrible top deck. I'd try to throw in some number of maindeck Reclamation Sage's and throw the rest of the playset in the side. Every deck is playing enchantments whether its midrange playing outposts/Coursers/Mastery of the Unseen, control playing Banishing Light, graveyard strategies playing whip, or Combo decks based on the ascendency enchantments. Against Aggro its another body.
I tested out the deck and it felt a little less consistent that regular old G/R monsters, but it could really be explosive! I loved swinging for 14 to sometimes 20 damage in one turn, so I kind of tweaked things to be a more explosive combo-like deck.
The idea being a heavy dragon + xenagod = gg. So I threw in some tutors in Chord of calling which also works very nicely with all the mana dorks and allows you to play utility creatures in the sideboard. One of the main things I changed was Dictate of Karametra over frontier seige. Seige ws just terrible for me. At best it helped me ramp into more mana dorks a turn early. Dictate just KILLS with all those big X spells. And you may be thinking that letting the enemy ramp is bad, but most of the time when you untap with that much mana, its gg. In the sideboard, Hornet Nest is amazing against any deck that attacks. Red decks cant get through it, and abzan has to waste kill spells on it to get through. Between that and Nylea's Disciple, Aggro should be a decent match-up. Our win cons fly over most of Abzan stuff. Walkers are hardly a problem either. The main problem to the deck is board wipes. That's what the Whisperwoods in the side are for. Off to go do some more testing!
3 Foreboding Ruins
6 Forest
3 Game Trail
3 Hissing Quagmire
4 Mountain
4 Swamp
Instants/Sorceries
2 To the Slaughter
2 Magmatic Insight
3 Tormenting Voice
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Ultimate Price
3 Pulse of Murasa
1 Read the Bones
2 Painful Truths
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Dead Weight
4 Vessel of Nascency
Planeswalker
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
Creatures
4 Deathcap Cultivator
3 Den Protector
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Dragonlord Kolaghan
1 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Natural State
4 Roast
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
3 Sinister Concoction
2 Virulent Plague
2 Clip Wings
This is what I've been testing. It's been doing great, especially against the B/W Westvale decks. The synergy between Traverse the Ulvenwald, Vessel of Nascency, and Deathcap Cultivator is just insane. I expect Traverse to skyrocket once it catches on. Being able to smooth out your mana in the early turns and then fetch any creature you need in the late game is just so good. And delirium is hilariously easy to achieve in this deck. Between Pulse, Greenwarden, Den Protector, and Darkdwellers, you have an engine that makes every card in your grave usable multiple times, and you can chain value all day long. The amount of card draw, and card searching allows us to get away with a low land count of 23. Virtually any hand with a combination of draw/land search spells, or deathcap and at least 2 mana is keepable. Just a few notes on cards that I cut:
Sin Prodder: Great card, and it was a hard cut but I just needed more removal to make it to the late game where the deck really shines.
Gitrog Monster: Was just too cute and the deck is really mana hungry
Ob Nixis: The double black was a little tough and I was weak to planeswalkers so I had to cut him for Dragonlord Kolaghan who also synergizes with Traverse really well when you hit 7 mana.
Arlinn Kord: Easiest cut. Just really did not pull her weight. Often times, she would just rot in my hand for fear of paying for a 4 mana 2/2 wolf...
Great list. I love the inclusion of Evolutionary Leap. I will have to give this a try. Some insight from my testing so far:
Lili's ultimate is actually exceedingly rare to hit, so I believe you made the correct choice in going with Atheros over Ascendency.
Fleshbag Maurader is great in a more midrange/creature control type strategy so he works great in your deck, but I'm not a fan of him in my Sultai deck, at least not mainboard. He can also get cute with Black Cat.
I have not run into tokens once so far, so minister is definitely a sideboard choice for me, but if tokens every becomes a thing he is definitely considerable for the main.
One final thought: WHY NO HORNET NEST?! That thing is an absolute power house against any deck not running black removal for it! It seems like it fits even better into your build than mine since you have a bigger top end that you would like to get to.
I addressed the issue earlier in the thread. Cards like Magmatic Insight and Tormenting voice are just too low impact to run because most of the time they just are not worth casting without goggles. You can argue that pitching land might work, but in this deck you pretty much want to hit every land drop up to turn 7+ with so many X spells and Big ol' Atarka. With the goggles you might be able to create more of an advantantage, but goggles are surprisingly fast at closing out games. Ive never really found myself in the position of not having enough burn. Most of the time, the issue is having enough time to double all the burn spells.
I concede the fact that midrange is the deck's weakness, but I have seven maindeck answers to big creatures, not counting any of the smaller burn spells I can double with goggles. And if your meta is really midrange you can swap out the Fiery Impulses and Magma Jets for Roast and Spite of Mogis. Spite of Mogis is comparable to Murderous Cut in that it needs cards in the grave to be a good deal, but that's pretty easy for a burn deck. And Seige Rhinos go to the same grave, whether they are getting Ultimate Priced or Roasted. Right now there is a pretty large diversity of burn to choose from. If you want to hit control you can go with Exquisite Firecraft. My point is, you can tailor the burn to your meta. I just happen to be in a sea of Gobbos and Elves where I test. I don't see a point in further diluting the mana to go Jund. And replacing green means having to wait 5 turns to drop goggles. Then HOPEFULLY you have some red spells to be casting, if you're not stuck holding a hero's downfall instead.
That's the beauty of the deck. Most burn decks have to choose whether to burn out the creatures or go for the dome. In this deck, the burn is for keeping the board clear, but once goggles come out, the burn is doing double duty. there's no need for black. The burn is plenty of removal as it is. Secondly,in my first iteration of the deck, I tried out both of the draw spells you're talking about. while they were sweet with the goggles out, before that moment, they were too sub par. For us, ditching lands is not a good thing until turn 7+, unlike a regular burn deck which could start discarding them around turn 4 or 5. Even with goggles out, that's still 4 cards for 2, and your goggles are spent for the turn. Not the greatest...
1 Dragonlord Atarka
Artifacts:
3 Pyromancer's Goggles
4 Atarka Monument
Burn:
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Atarka's Command
2 Crater's Claws
4 Lightning Strike
3 Fiery Impulse
3 Magma Jet
2 Ravaging Blaze
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Commune with Lava
2 Crater's Claws
3 Stoke the Flames
4 Wooded Foothils
6 Mountain
4 Rugged Highlands
4 Temple of Abandon
3 Forest
2 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Crucible of the Spirit Dragon
3 Act of Treason
2 Outpost Siege
3 Back to Nature
2 Destructive Revelry
3 Gaea's Revenge
2 Stormbreath Dragon
So the basic idea of the deck is to get the goggles out then burn your opponent out. I can see an argument for splashing blue over green and going a counter burn route, but the faster the goggles are out, the better your doubled burn spells will be at controlling the board while still pressuring your opponent's life total. Atarka's Command is the real all star of the deck. Because it is so often used in aggressive decks, people forget it can be a ramp spell as well. Combined with the Monuments, you can cast Goggles early on then just go on the burn plan or maybe you can cast huge fireballs or Atarka himself. Our backup is attacking with 4/4 dragon monuments or multiplying your spells with Chandra She also serves as repeatable kill spells against tokens, elves, and gobbos or just straight card advantage vs. control.
Edit: Made some changes.
Mainboard: I traded the singleton spite of Mogis for a second commune with the gods. It really gives the deck a lot more reach and if you can cast one with goggles out, it usually means gg.
Sideboard: I traded the walkers for 2 Stormbreath Dragons and 3 Gaea's Revenge to give control a headache, especially when they've sided out all their creature removal.
Edit 2: Forgot Wooded Foothills is a card
4 Liliana, Heretical Healer
4 Yasova Dragonclaw
4 Crystalline Nautilus
4 Frost Walker
4 Den Protector
3 Stratus Dancer
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
Instants:
4 Collected Company
2 Murderous Cut
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Disdainful Stroke
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Opulent Palace
4 Polluted Delta
2 Temple of Malady
3 Temple of Deceit
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Swamp
3 Island
1 Brain Maggot
4 Hornet Nest
4 Merciless Executioner
3 Reclamation Sage
3 Disdainful Stroke
So this is a tempo deck built around Liliana, Heretical Healer and collected company. The idea behind the deck is to pair Liliana with high power creatures so that your opponent has to make a choice between killing Lili and taking the damage from our beatsticks or killing the high power creatures and flipping Lili who can then recur your beatsticks. Nautalis and Frost Walker are your main beaters. Their drawback is used as a strength in this deck. They dodge exile spells like Abzan charm while giving you death triggers for Lili. Frost walkers even manage to dodge bile blight. Yasova is the third beater. She can steal any one of the amazing 3 CMC creautes in standard right now from the flip walkers to Courser, Fleecemane, Raptor, Rabblemaster etc... Since we play with such low cost creatures, it is easy to get sweeped by an end hostilities, outclassed by dragons, or locked out of the game due to something like Elspeth. So the deck really hates on high CMC cards and noncreature spells through Stubborn Denial/Disdainful stroke/Stratus Dancer. You can also recover from sweeps with collected company which even grabs Thassa to make things unblockable (Just don't forget to never target Nautalis or Frost Walker!). Sideboard choices all seem pretty obvious.
Strategy:
Vs. Aggro: Trade 1 for 1 then start recurring your creatures. Bring in Hornet's Nest/Executioners
Vs. Control: The deck is made to out tempo control. Keep applying constant pressure and keep up your counters.
Vs. Midrange: This is probably the challenging matchup. Much better matchup postboard with nests and executioners again, with reclamation sages as needed. Strokes also keep the Rhino's at bay.
Vs. Combo: This is standard.
Additional card choices can include:
2 Jeskai Charm
1 Commune with Lava
2 Ojutai's Command
2 Stoke the Flames
4 Secure the Wastes
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Raise the Alarm
1 Treasure Cruise
Creatures:
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Frost Walker
2 Soulfire Grand Master
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
3 Narset Transcendent
Land:
6 Mountain
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mystic Monastery
3 Plains
2 Island
2 Shivan Reef
2 Erase
2 Negate
3 Disdainful Stroke
1 Keranos, God of Storms
3 Ojutai Exemplars
4 Chained to the Rocks
This is what I'm testing at the moment. A deck that can play like your average token deck or take the grindy midrange battle. Frost walker has just been an all star. Early pressure vs. control and it forces your opponent to keep in spot removal when that's really the last thing they want to be doing against tokens. Even the midrange green decks are going to take a few hits before they can get their game going. I think I really found the home for Ojutai's Command. A lot of players want to jam it into control because they want it to be cryptic command. It has a much more mid range-y feel to it after I got to play with it a bit. This deck abuses the first ability by being able to return any of our creatures while countering fatties that would normally give us trouble like Polukranos or Doomwake Giant. Finally, there's a long game package for the more grindy games in Narset, Treasure Cruise, Secure the Wastes, and Commune with Lava (Which has been awesome in testing as a 1 of for that extra reach).
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Karametra's Acolyte
3 Genesis Hydra
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Atarka, World Render
Enchantments:
3 Xenagos, God of Revels
2 Dictate of Karametra
3 Shamanic Revelation
1 See the Unwritten
1 Crater's Claws
2 Chord of Calling
Land:
9 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Reclamation Sage
1 Windstorm
4 Hornet Nest
1 Hornet Queen
2 Nylea's Disciple
3 Whisperwood Elemental
The idea being a heavy dragon + xenagod = gg. So I threw in some tutors in Chord of calling which also works very nicely with all the mana dorks and allows you to play utility creatures in the sideboard. One of the main things I changed was Dictate of Karametra over frontier seige. Seige ws just terrible for me. At best it helped me ramp into more mana dorks a turn early. Dictate just KILLS with all those big X spells. And you may be thinking that letting the enemy ramp is bad, but most of the time when you untap with that much mana, its gg. In the sideboard, Hornet Nest is amazing against any deck that attacks. Red decks cant get through it, and abzan has to waste kill spells on it to get through. Between that and Nylea's Disciple, Aggro should be a decent match-up. Our win cons fly over most of Abzan stuff. Walkers are hardly a problem either. The main problem to the deck is board wipes. That's what the Whisperwoods in the side are for. Off to go do some more testing!