In general, each action verb on a spell or ability indicates a separate action that happens at once (C.R. 608.2c). For example, Casualties of War uses the action verb "destroy" five times, so that that spell destroys at up to five different times (depending on the number of modes chosen) and "in the order written" (C.R. 608.2c). (Similarly, Austere Command destroys at different moments because it uses the action verb "destroy" in different places.) On the other hand, Decimate uses the action verb "destroy" only once, so that that spell destroys the targeted permanents at the same time. (In this sense, Decimate is similar to Nevinyrral's Disk's activated ability.) See also this thread.
In the scenario you give, Casualties of War, when it resolves, will destroy Eldrazi Monument, making its effect giving certain creatures indestructible (among other things) end immediately (C.R. 113.6, 611.3b) before that spell goes on to destroy the other targeted permanents, if any (assuming that spell targets Eldrazi Monument as the "target artifact" and Eldrazi Monument can be destroyed). On the other hand, Decimate, when it resolves, destroys all its targets at the same time, so that if some of those targets can't be destroyed (e.g., because they have indestructible [C.R. 702.12b]), the spell will instead destroy as many as possible (C.R. 609.3, 101.2, 101.3).
EDIT (Feb. 14): Correction and correctness edit. Also, one rule was renumbered with Core Set 2020.
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- Stapler
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Apr 19, 20191
peteroupc posted a message on Casualties of War, Decimate, and Sequential DestructionPosted in: Magic Rulings -
Apr 2, 2019
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peteroupc posted a message on Aven Mimeomancer, Figure of Destiny, and Lazav, the MultifariousAven Mimeomancer's effect saying the creature in question "has base power and toughness 3/1 and has flying for as long as it has a feather counter on it" (C.R. 108.1) expresses power- and toughness-changing and ability-adding effects, respectively (layer 7b and 6, respectively) (C.R. 613.1f-g, 613.3b), and Figure of Destiny's three abilities express subtype-changing, power- and toughness-changing, and ability-adding effects (layer 4, 7b, and 6, respectively) (C.R. 205.3m, 613.1d, 613.1f-g, 613.3b); the subtype-changing effects, however, replace the creature's existing creature types (C.R. 205.1a, 205.3m). In both cases, the effects are layered on top of copy effects (layer 1), such as the one found on Lazav (C.R. 613.1, 613.1a). Thus, in general:Posted in: Magic Rulings- If Lazav is affected by the Aven Mimeomancer effect, Lazav will "ha[ve] base power and toughness 3/1 and ha[ve] flying for as long as it has a feather counter on it", even if it becomes a copy of another object in the meantime.
- If Lazav is affected by any of Figure of Destiny's three abilities, Lazav will have the stated creature types (and no other creature types), have the stated base power and toughness, and have the stated abilities, if any, even if it becomes a copy of another object in the meantime.
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Jun 3, 20191
materpillar posted a message on The Ur-Dragon, Home of the 14 card Changeling ComboPosted in: Multiplayer Commander DecklistsQuote from Stapler »Man, this set really added a lot to help this deck become more refined. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on some of the new cards. Here's all the ones I'm looking at:
This set is super fantastic! The only thing that saddens me is that it'll make changelings more mainstream and thus my deck will be less super hipster original feeling. Overall a minor concern.
Quote from Stapler »Irregular Cohort - This one seems like a slam-dunk; two changeling bodies at a reasonably cheap 3 mana to double-trigger our Unesh and such while also providing multiple bodies to tap for mana. It also goes infinite a number of ways.Haste outlet + mana outlet + Walker of Secret Ways + Cryptic Gateway = infinite ETBs(EDIT: Nope nevermind, this is a nonbo, forgot that you're tapping the creatures for Gateway and thus can't also tap them for mana). The previously mentioned Hibernation Sliver + Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves synergy alongside Cryptic Gateway gets infinite life + ETBs AND infinite (tapped) tokens by responding to the Gateway activation by bouncing Cohort back with the Sliver's ability.
Yeah. This card is super awesome. I look forward to abusing it greatly.
Quote from Stapler »Impostor of the Sixth Pride - 1 mana changelings are the best. I'll probably cut one of the more medium 4/3 mana options I was running like Ghostly Changeling.
1 Mana changelings are fantastic. I'm slamming them all of them in. This is the least exciting of the 3 but I'm still super happy about it.
Quote from Stapler »Valiant Changeling - This one I'm unsure how to evaluate. The new set added enough 1 mana changelings that this will sometimes be castable on turn 2 which is great, but without a changeling it's sketchy. The deck has enough creatures with two or more creature types that I think it'll be castable for 3-4 a reasonable amount of the time even when we don't have another changeling, but even then that's pretty bad, and lategame it seems likely to be bricked by larger creatures. It does have some neat synergies with Yuriko and Seshiro though. I'll probably try it but I think the deck actually has better options.
I'm really interested in the fact is has double strike. However, I'm really concerned about it costing WW. My mana-base is baaaaaad. There's 7 other changelings I like more in this set. I doubt I'll be able to find room for it.
Quote from Stapler »Changeling Outcast - Works amazingly with Yuriko and Seshiro and friends and costs 1. Definitely in.
Slam in for reasons stated.
Quote from Stapler »Graveshifter - This is definitely worth including right? It's a bit awkward that there's going to be spots early game where we want to play a changeling for tribal synergies but don't have a creature in the yard, but being able to get back our strong tribal card lategame seems more than worth it.
I'm going to cut Wort, Boggart Auntie. She's only ever gotten me back 1 card before, so this does that but is also a changeling. This is also really good with Unholy Grotto. It'll make that land effectively get back any creature instead with a 2/2 changeling body bonus.
Yeah, I can see it being ok. I just don't want to sacrifice my changelings ever.Quote from Stapler »Undead Augur - I'll just mention that maybe in a version of this deck that's more sacrifice heavy this would be a good include. As is it's probably too difficult to trigger reliably without sac outlets.
Quote from Stapler »Venomous Changeling - As mentioned, this card is great with a couple of cards in the deck like Widespread Brutality. Definitely makes it in.
1-mana changeling dance.
I thought about her for a while, but I don't think she does nearly enough. Look how poorly she matches up against Seshiro. I've found I only get 1-2 triggers out of most of my non-changeling cards. Getting +2/+2 on two creatures just isn't enough.Ayula, Queen Among Bears - I think this card requires too much work to be good. Needing to play this out BEFORE playing changelings, and then needing to build up enough counters on one of our tiny changelings to be big enough to fight seems real bad. Maybe just because it's cheap and has a unique tribe that makes it appealing, but I'm unconvinced.
Webweaver Changeling - Seems wayyy too expensive. The lifegain is whatever, and being a big reach body is fine, but I don't want to spend 4 mana on a medium changeling.
I'd have been really happy about this if it costed 4G instead so it could go infinite with a bit of help. I think I like it better than Chameleon Colossus. Being able to tutor it up for some life-gain padding is really nice. On its own I'd have slammed it in three weeks ago... but there's so many good new changelings.
Oh... I hadn't even thought about adding this guy. I'm too busy trying to figure out what I'm going to cut to add Hibernation Sliver. This one is super fantastic for sure... but I have way too many slivers. I'm going to pass on it.Quote from Stapler »Cloudshredder Sliver - Both flying AND haste are abilities this deck wants a lot and there's no other card that does both this efficiently, it's just unfortunate it's attached to a sliver (since I've taken your stance in trying to diversify creature types as much as possible). I think it's likely this makes it in for me though.
Quote from Stapler »The First Sliver - I feel like there's some sort of silly combo this enables, but right now I'm not seeing it. As is, it's another Sliver that's expensive and is doing something the deck already does (draw cards/generate value) with a creature type we already run plenty of. Seems like an easy pass. I'd rather play Sliver Overlord.
Most of the time we're bouncing and spamming changelings. I doubt they'd really cascade particularly well. I'm also going to pass on him.
Quote from Stapler »Ingenious Infiltrator - We already have this effect a bunch as well, and we also have a bunch of Ninjas already. It's just a weaker Yuriko. Nah.
I still run Higure of the Still Wind. I wonder if this guy would be better. Waaay less awesome, but I might make that swap.
I look forward to countering some spells with a moggcatcher activation.Quote from Stapler »Unsettled Mariner - Seems like an easy include. No mana discount, but making other players pay a tax to mess with our stuff seems great.
Quote from Stapler »Morophon, the Boundless - He's definitely in.
C-C-C-COMBO TIME.
Quote from Stapler »Birthing Boughs - Wayyyy too much mana. No thanks.
I want 1-mana changelings not 7 mana changelings. Well except for Morophon.
Quote from Stapler »Universal Automaton - Ohhhhh boy they did it. 0 mana changeling. Everything I said about Irregular Cohort applies to this guy except you can totally remove Cryptic Gateway from the equation (EDIT: and add in Training Grounds for the first combo I guess). There's gotta be something else that goes off with this guy, but I don't feel like diving into that now. Never thought I'd be this excited for a Memnite. EDIT: Hah, well if nothing else Hibernation Sliver + this + Reaper King is "Pay 2 life: Destroy target permanent", which is incredibly amusing.
Universal Automaton is actually the changeling I'm most excited about.
Order of excitement
Tier 1 - SQUEEEEE
1 Universal Automaton
2 Morophon, the Boundless
3 Changeling Outcast
4 Irregular Cohort
5 Graveshifter
Tier 2 - Windmill Slam
6 Venomous Changeling
7 Impostor of the Sixth Pride
8 Unsettled Mariner
Tier 3 - I'm very interested
9 Valiant Changeling
10 Webweaver Changeling
Tier 4 - Not even remotely considering
Birthing Boughs
I just looked over my changeling list... there's only like 2-3 I actually want to cut. Ghostly Changeling, Chameleon Colossus, and Cairn Wanderer are the only obvious cuts. Sigh.
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May 18, 2019
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peteroupc posted a message on Lifelink + Band Together + Ajani's PridemateWhere Ajani's Pridemate says "Whenever you gain life", it means "Whenever a source causes you to gain life" (C.R. 118.9). Here, there are two creatures causing you to gain life as they deal damage (thanks to lifelink) (C.R. 119.3f), so Ajani's Pridemate's ability will trigger twice (C.R. 608.2, especially C.R. 608.2c). The fact that the two creatures deal damage to the same creature is irrelevant. Compare Ajani's Pridemate with Sun-Crowned Hunters, whose ability triggers only once each time Sun-Crowned Hunters is dealt damage, no matter how many sources deal that damage at one time (C.R. 608.2, especially C.R. 608.2c; C.R. 700.1). See also this thread.Posted in: Magic Rulings -
May 6, 2019
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TribalElfMage posted a message on Niv-Mizzet Reborn and His Golden Army - AKA 5C Midrange-Voltron-ComboI love this deck! I've been working on something similar for our new Niv, and this list gave me some great ideas. I had no idea about the Lasav combo, definitely sweet. I've been considering adding some infinite draw combos Horizon Chimera to either ping the table to death with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, fuel a giant Debt to the Deathless with Cadaverous Bloom, or just be boring and flavorless with Lab Man. Ultimately, I feel I'm more spell-based then you at this point, are there benefits/disadvantages going one way or the other?Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
I'm pretty sure Hostage Taker and two clones gives you infinite ETB triggers, right? Not sure what the payoff would be there barring adding something like Vela the Night-Clad, which while it would help the with making Niv-Mizzet unblockable for Voltron beats, as well as helping make sure your Lasav combo connects, I'm not sure if that alone makes it worthwhile.
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Apr 19, 20191
Natedogg posted a message on Casualties of War, Decimate, and Sequential DestructionPosted in: Magic RulingsFor example, if I cast Casualties of War targeting an Eldrazi Monument and a Runeclaw Bear, would the Bear end up getting destroyed because the ruling for Casualties of War states that they are destroyed in the order specified? Thus (since artifacts are listed first) Eldrazi Monument will get destroyed first and stop granting indestructibility to Runeclaw Bear in time for Casualties to destroy it?
You follow the instructions in the order they're printed on the card. The artifact is destroyed first, then the creature, so the Monument is destroyed, then the Bear (which is no long indestructible).
Does the same hold true for Decimate?
No, Decimate is not the same. Everything is destroyed at the same time with Decimate (because it only uses the word "destroy" once), so targeting the Monument and the Bear with Decimate would mean that the Bear survives. Casualties of War uses "destroy" multiple times, so they're destroyed one at a time, not all at once. -
Jul 7, 201613
LouCypher posted a message on Make Mischief Trick Jarret"Mischief Managed."Posted in: The Rumor Mill -
Jun 21, 201619
Empathogen posted a message on Hanweir, the Writhing Township (DFC back-side only)And of course, the total power of the three attackers is 13.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
And this post number.
And I'm at exactly 13 life points!
Uh oh... -
May 27, 201611
Zephyr Scarlet posted a message on Full Set List is UpHoly ***** I think I won the boxPosted in: The Rumor Mill -
Oct 11, 201067
Megiddo posted a message on Club Flamingo ☆ Exclusively for Custom Card Connoisseurs and Great PeoplePosted in: Custom Card Contests and GamesCLUB FLAMINGO
Check Near the End of the Thread for the Current Challenge
Remember: Use IIWs for all challenges
Quote from Little_Money
There is only one flamingo, that is Megiddo
it's Megiddo's club we just post in it.
Welcome to Club Flamingo! If you aren't familiar with the rules for gentlemen's clubs, open the spoiler right here. If you've posted in "the Winner is Judge" before, you'll be fine.
1. Submit an entry that fits the current criteria along with a suggestion for the next challenge (an "IIW").But isn't this Club Flamingo? Yes. This automatically makes it classier than basically every other thread on here. But this thread isn't made just for me to dress up like a flamingo. In the next spoiler you will find the special rules for this club.
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Chemtrails — 139 wins
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Assuming you're directing this at "T"'s last sentence, I think what that commenter is saying (and I could be wrong) is that they don't take issue with people playing their combo on turn 5 if they have it, but the reason they are combing off on turn 5 is because they're actively tutoring and digging for those pieces.
If by turn 5 I just happen to have my combo in hand without even trying and I go for it and no one has the answer, then cool whatever, that was a nut draw and we can shuffle up again and play a new one. But if the lead up to that turn 5 was turn 1 Vampiric Tutor turn 2 Demonic Tutor, and a sequence similar to this is happening every other game, then that's a problem.
If a deck has the ability to reliably assemble and deploy the pieces of a 2-3 card combo in the early turns of the game, that deck in my mind would cease to be "built casually". At that point the deck is just a combo deck, and the homogenization of all decks and strategies into combo decks is probably part of what Sheldon is objecting to as well.
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He's obviously meant to support a token deck that uses Bloodghast and Ophiomancer and friends to fill its hand with cards and shrink down enemy creatures with counters, and then uses its full hand to discard to proliferate and shrink down those creatures till they're dead, freeing the way for the rest of Yawgmoth's creatures to attack. You can even run cards like Drana, Liberator of Malakir, Necropolis Regent, and Unspeakable Symbol to pump up your tokens, and then proliferate those counters to pump them further.
Black Market, Spawning Pit, Yahenni, Undying Partisan, Smokestack ... there's a number of artistocrat and even stax-type cards that Yawgmoth's proliferate works very well with. Really though, all you need is tokens and repeatably resurrecting creatures since the combination of card draw + mass -1/-1 counter distribution + discarding cards to kill those creatures en masse is already strong, even ignoring the further synergies he enables.
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One was a game with my Nin, the Pain Artist Erratic Explosion deck playing a casual pickup 1v1 game against a stranger's Angus Mackenzie Superfriends deck. I was able to burn most of his walkers out, but he's managed to stick a Jace of one sort and an Ajani of another while I've just got a Psychosis Crawler and a lot of mana. I'm mostly untouched and he's at 19. We've both been holding up our mana representing counterspells for a turn or two, but on his next turn he decides to go for it. He casts Time Warp and tries to Twincast it with both his walkers nearing ultimate, still with plenty of mana untapped. I decide to go for it as well. I cast Brainstorm, which he lets resolve, pinging him down to 16 with Psychosis Crawler. I then cast Riddle of Lightning targeting him, and I'm ready for the counter war, but instead he responds with these words: "I mean, it's not like that'll kill me."
No need to scry: I just flip over Draco. We're both laughing like madmen.
A second story was another 1v1 game, this time against a friend (my decks are all built for multiplayer, but the unique, memorable moments only seem to happen in 1v1). He asks if I've got a deck that's more midrange in competitiveness to play against his newly built Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire tokens deck, so I pull out my own newly built Reyhan, Last of the Abzan+Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper deck. I tell him it's mostly just a goodstuffish big value dudes + removal deck with some +1/+1 counter and lifegain synergies, but it's a slow deck with no infinite combos or super mean cards and it shouldn't kill you out of nowhere.
Of course, I kill him on turn 4. We're back to standard of a year ago with turn 2 Winding Constrictor into turn 3 Walking Ballista (killing his Llanowar Elves) and then turn 4 I play Unspeakable Symbol. I'm at 38 from fetchlands and don't believe in half measures, so I pay 36 life into the Symbol to put 24 counters on my 1/1 Ballista making it a 25/25, then remove 2 counters to kill his only blocker, Falkenrath Noble (which drains me down to 1). I attack with both for 25, then remove 23 counters to ping him for an unnecessary amount of overkill. Pretty incredible first game for the deck, pretty bad look for me when I follow up "shouldn't kill you out of nowhere" with that godhand.
My last memorable story is a story (or rather, an entire game) I've already posted years ago in the "Crazy Plays" thread, but the fact that it's the only "crazy play" I've deemed "crazy" enough to post in that thread should indicate just how memorable it is to me. It's a bit long as it's condensing an intense 9-10 turn 2HG game, but it's a pretty wild ride if I may say so. Spoiler'd to avoid making this post into a giant wall of text:
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EDIT: Howl of the Horde would be another Doublecast effect to run for the sake of redundancy.
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Timestream Navigator, with the Adaptation+Rebel combo the deck is built around, is sort of a 1-slot "I win" card that can end games where Elesh Norn beats can't get there. EOT fetch her out with at least 9 other permanents (for the city's blessing), untap, spend the 4 to take an extra turn and put her back in the deck, then fetch her out again so she isn't summoning sick on your extra turn. This probably taps you out, but eventually you'll draw lands and be able to cast creatures to attack, assuming Zur can't just poke them to death. As a small bonus, she's a wizard to sac to Voidmage Prodigy if you can't get any of the other options. It's maybe a little against the spirit of the deck, as essentially it changes the gameplan from "control the board" to "get to 8+ mana with Adaptaion+Rebel tutor+potential counter backup", but its still pretty janky and is an option in a meta where the wincon outlined in the OP just isn't realistic.
Yet another wizard, Spellseeker is sort of a catchall answer for anything via a Rebel tutor at instant speed provided you have the mana to cast what she tutors for and can make room in the deck for a small spell toolbox. She can get a counterspell, a removal spell like Swords, a bounce spell like Rift (or you can grab it to use it as a boardwipe), an actual boardwipe like Black Sun's Zenith or Martial Coup, or another tutor for something like a crucial enchantment or artifact if Zur is offline (so you're tutoring for a tutor in order to tutor ...). If you've already used/tutored for all the effects in your deck that can do what you need in the moment (i.e. Voidmage Prodigy and Spell Queller got killed so you don't have any counterspell creatures at the CMC 3 slot) it acts as a flex slot for all of them. It's also just a good card to play on curve to grab a Demonic Tutor for a Rebel searcher, increasing your consistency of assembling the toolbox. My version of the deck is also going to try a larger Wizard subtheme, with Patron Wizard as a surprise, repeatable Force Spike and Snapcaster Mage performing a similar role to Spellseeker while also benefiting from the more diverse spell selection I'll be playing.
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In the same vein, Emerge is a mechanic that pulls triple duty with Yuriko, giving you a way to sac her to let her Ninjutsu again, they are all ETB guys to recur, and they're all 7+ mana bombs to hit off Yuriko that really only cost 4 or so.
Of the available options, Elder Deep-Fiend, Distended Mindbender, and Vexing Scuttler (can't link, on mobile :/) all seem playable, with Wretched Gryff being a serviceable draw engine that I think is too inefficient.
Deep-Fiend taps down blockers for your Ninjas while keeping big attackers off your back, Mindbender can pick apart the hand of whoever you think is threatening you, and Scuttler fits with the Warp recursion theme, making an infinite, though expensive 11 mana combo with Yoriko: cast Time Warp, sac Yoriko to Scuttler getting Warp, on your next turn attack unblocked with Scuttler (Key to the City etc) to Ninjutsu Scuttler back with Yuriko, go back to step 1.
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And don't forget Morningtide.
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That is thirty FoF triggers.
I imagine most opponents would concede once I tell them I have Ulamog in the deck.
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