I think both of them are awesome examples of cranking the handle to test out cards.
Both players would have gained a lot from reading this thread.
Both decklists have 'Chromatic Lantern' base. . . . This is not a good sign.
The second decklist has 'Hive Stirrings'.
This is just the wrong card to be playing. It just is.
Hey, I played it when I started. (My defence is there was not enough slivers back then)
The second decklist is trying to cast Dissolve.
This is a fine idea, but UU is REALLY hard, and it dont stop Verdict, which is precisely the card to hate. (Or Lifebane, 1UU just aint happening on turn 3 or turn 2 on the draw.)
And Stain the Mind look HORRIBLE in the board.
Thoughtseize , now there is an Idea. You guys with lots of Black might want to think about that one.
The first decklist has Temples and the single coolest sideboard card yet in the Polymorphists' Jest (what a Hoot!)
Annul seems pretty Narrow.
What is the point of playing counters if they dont stop the things you want to stop? (their life-total)
I think that this is likely to be the first or second time those guys have played this deck. Both of these results are just fine, don't get me wrong, and the cards they are playing that dont match us are real cards that do real things, but I do not believe they would have played the same decks tomorrow.
And the sideboards would look completely different.
Both decks have diffusion in the board.
Both play 4 Hivelord.
Both have 2 Chords ( one is in the board )
The best example of these decks being new, and lumpy, is the fact the first deck is playing 2x Galeriders. No one that has played this deck extensively will play 2.
Ah.... actually, the first deck is playing ZERO Predator Sliver base. And it went top 8? What is all that about?
The second one is much more like what I think the Hivelord version should be like.
His sideboard mostly looks wrong though.
And I do not believe the Hivelord version is the way to go in competitive tournaments.
It is too slow and just doesn't stop the problem cards. Indestructible is just not what it used to be there are dozens of cards that laugh at it. (Poly Jest for instance)
The Hivelord requires too many changes to the base deck, and doesn't do much against the decks it is needed since they will kill you faster, and ignore him.
Leeching Sliver is great redundancy on top of Predatory, keeping the full 4.
I find this a bit surprising.
And that I think you did not side them out against b/r.
Maybe you just dont have enuff to side in, you didn't think about it, or I might just be wrong.
That B/R is the bit that interests me.
In your B/R loss, what did you side in? What did you board out?
(guess = Chord, Hivelord, Constricting, Galeriders?, ... should be Leeching )
Steelform on turn 3 just stops the desciption of both your losses. The Drown would not work, and Shocks do not stop a 3 toughness creature.
Bile Blight went straight through the Diffusion Sliver and killed 2xPredators.
Yep.
And then you are dead coz the diffusion utterly failed at it's job.
Steelform *might* have won this as well.
It is why I do not believe in Chord for X is good enough as a universal starter.
Chord is also going to suck against Mono-U, your other loss.
I do not play those cards.
I think I have better match ups against those two decks. (need to check)
Quote from thememan »
Aggro is making a bit more of a swing right now than anticipated;
Really?
I said there was lots of aggro.
Then Someone said I had a weird meta and my version would not work out there in the long game. Do you remember who it was?
Quote from thememan »
might need to consider including Syphon Sliver in the mainboard. Possibly 2. Not sure how to make room yet.
Syphon is what I have been thinking about versus decks trying to race.
But Steelform is hopefully going to work better.
Quote from thememan »
Mono-U continues to be annoying and problematic as their good draws are nearly unbeatable without very specific answers. Unravel the Aether out of the side was lacklaster, as you can be beat down even without Thassa.
hmmm.
Things like Diffusion, venom, and striking just dont do enuff against Blue.
They can see your tricks, do their own, and counterspell for the win.
Sounds bad.
I think Mystcutter Wurm is really needed for you.
Quote from thememan »
Constricting Sliver is worth the mainboard, probably over Hivelord if it comes to it. Such a happy accident in forgetful sideboarding this week. It's more expensive, but has a more immediate impact on the board. It's a nudge better in the aggressive matches, where it can take over games if you land it.
I just dont see how a 6 Cost Constricting Sliver is going to win on a regular basis.
Sure it has a huge immediate impact, but is it as much as Elspeth?
Mostly, I do not see it, althought there is certainly going to be times where it is just better.
The reason I would play Elpeth over Constricting is that whole 'After the boardwipe' situation where Elspeth just wins. The other reason would play Elpeth is that whole 'Before the boardwipe' situation where Elspeth just wins.
6 cost means long game for me.
Quote from thememan »
Might try 2-4 'scrylands' in the list ... Needs testing. They are good, ...
Some one should test that.
I play 9 in maindeck, Is that enough?
Quote from thememan »
Currently the mana base is relatively stable; 1-2 Confluence is all that is needed to keep it smooth. Haven't had a problem yet, and haven't seen a need to add more. I've gotten to the point of only mulling due to too many or too few land, and rarely due to the wrong lands.
Look, The standard consensus is that we all play 4 Mana Confluence, see above.
Temples help with the only problems you are mentioning. 'too many' & 'too few' are what Temples sort out.
Quote from thememan »
Might post current list if I get around to it tomorrow. I prefer to go through a lot of testing before I post my lists.
Very interested to see it.
Especially where the Hivelords are.
Quote from thememan »
Might have to put those Hivelords in the side, sadly.
Will Hivelords only in the Sideboard be an interesting statement from the only 4-0 player so far?
I don't think this has been addressed, but did you or anyone experiment with Chromatic Lantern as a mana stabilizer/backup for Manaweft?
Quote from thememan »
He mentioned Chord of Calling, not Chromatic Lantern. Chromatic Lantern is unnecessary in the build, as there are plenty of other means to get mana fixing.
Yes, he mentioned Chord of calling.
Yes, his contribution of Chromatic Lantern is very, very bad.
Yes , he decided to insult me, and then repost information I had already posted.
The difference between our two lists is that mine is earlier, accurate, and does not involve insults.
Quote from thememan »
Finally, we shouldn't denounce someone who shows interest in the deck. We should embrace said people. More minds hammering out the triumphs and pitfalls gives us greater information to move forward. He didn't disclude you, and didn't say anything remotely justifying the hostility.
Verbose = Big Kiss ?
Quote from thememan »
There was also another guy playing slivers at the store who top-8'd, and was an extreme jerk all around. Had no end of insight into how my inclusions were *****e and his were gold.
Why did you not embrace him?
His mind had pitfalls and triumphs. His mind is a hammer, and stuff.
Phewh!
There was no top 8 at my last tourney, so it wasn't me.
"magic geek doing his verbose best to insist that he is the expert and everyone else is wrong, and thememan, immapwner, and several others trying to explain to magic geek all the ways in which he is mistaken.
Thoughts?
Gee Whiz!
Who are you?
You say Chromatic Lantern might be good.
It isn't.
Chromatic Lantern is really, really bad.
If they polukranos targetting some Slivers, can you chord for a Diffusion and fizzle it?
or is it too late?
Blaklanner, the deck looks pretty good.
- - -
Playing one Steelform in the Chord decks seemed like a good idea....until I realised predator is better, and cheaper.
Steelform is also going to help my leeching Slivers in that they keep bodies alive for the next attack.
I think Leeching may well be the extra damage I needed.
And regarding Thoughtseize, it is not like other cards.
When I get a savagely anti red/green/white spell in my sideboard, I get to use it.
This is not true for Blue in that they might counter it, or bounce it. This is why Boil is SO effective. Instant, and destroy your position.
Black Sideboard teck SUCKS. Look earlier in this thread. I look, and I look , and I look. They would take the Assemble the Legion, or it would just be too slow. Elspeth worked much better. She is way more effective immediately, and the reason that mattered was because of the Temples and the Magma Jet digging to find Elspeth. Temples are really good in this, Slivers often want variety and land stability, they help.
Thememan - Legacy is not something i have spent a lot of time on.
Vintage, on the other hand....
And Highlander, (proper 60 cards, Vintage Pointed) is a serious local format that i have taken seriously for years. Try watching sideboards for that !
It is SO fast, and reliable.
5 colour sillyness, and I am calling it reliable
The Hive makes everything EASY. The hive is MY Deck.
I really understand where you are coming from Thememan, but we really aint playing the same deck.
I can kill red/green with speed.
Chord of Calling is better when the game is going longer, like the Hivelord.
I do not want the game to go longer.
I fully understand that the way this deck loses is if the opponent manages to pull a strong draw.
And if that happens it will take a while for the game to be over, and I aint gunna be the one winning.
Getting an instant speed flyer is good.
Belligerent seems better and does cost triple GGG
I see that chord gets the right one, but it is AWFUL against sprint.
I think I need to actually play a couple of dozen game with my current layout.
Leech is not the same as predator.
Bonescythe is the obvious example, but you do not play it so obviously it isn't obvious.
Golgari Charm only wipes out one. Chandra only kills one.
I am hoping to not have to attack more than once.
One attack for the win is a simple plan.
Another example of the difference between Leech & Predator is when another Sliver Blocks.
Leech does not help. Predator does.
Dealing 1 damage and trading with a 1/1 is way worse that just killing something, mostly.
Diffusion is just a Two cost 1/1 sliver, until someone tries to point at my team.
If the other guy is not actually pointing at your guys, like I don't, Diffusion is AWFUL.
Diffusion in late-late game, does nothing.
Diffusion does not work against mono-U, sprint red, sprint black, hex-proof... Dunno what else is out there really. It is a new season. Having Abrupt decay just laugh at Diffusion Sliver is SAD. So is Golgari Charm.
Diffusion does seem good against Black, that is why I am keeping them for the moment. Drown in Sorry is just a downer.
And stopping someone from casting creature kill is just so not the same as enforced Mulligans.
This is Black you are typing about.
Fine, Turn one Thoughtseize, take the Diffusion Sliver. And if I did not draw creature kill, or I am more scared of the bonescythe, or manaweft, I will worry about it later, after I can wipe the board with Black.
Diffusion vs Black just seems a bit hopeful.
Having just a diffusion Sliver and nuthing else is what Black is trying to get Us too. The SLivers need to be able to do something useful, not just stop them doing something useful. And regularly Diffusion just doesn't.
When I played them lots of people kept picking him up. Spectators, judges, other players. 'Wow!' people would go. It did not actually stop Polukranos, but it made him pay more as it was over.
Banking on Hivelord to win after Two Attacks, is WAY HOPEFUL.
Two attacks may not reach 20 damage, especially after blockers.
Hivelord is just not the way.
Not my way anyway.
Looking forward to lots more games.
It is way cool to goldfish this deck, take seven, play 5 turns, put everything in the graveyard, start again.
(All Temple rejects get put in the graveyard)
I can fight and burn red, I think.
of all things, I think I take out the manawefts against red.
11 cards go in.
llanowar Coast, 2 Temple of Plenty switch to Temple of Triumph and Fountain
three non red-(white?) land go out, three go in.
Maybe 1 Belligerent and 2 Galeriders and 3 Leeches and 1 Blur and 1 manaweft?
hmmm maybe not then on the manawefts.
2 Steelform Sliver
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Mizzium Mortars
3 Magma Jet
2 Magma Spray
2 Temple of Triumph
I reckon if you ae actively trying to kill me, leech is likely the first against the wall.
I feel dirty shuffling these mana confluence proxies.
Steelform is going to be good. Got a good feeling about this.
He beats Golgari charm. He makes deathtouch better, he might make Drown in Sorrow not work, and Anger of the god is still looking difficult as the 3 damage kills the Predator, and then the steel... Even so. I really like them. Lots of people have critters to block with, or that need blocking. Surviving long enough to kill them helps.
I am keeping diffusion for the moment in the board, maybe it will work against Black
You demonstrate how Black can stop My Slivers.
Then you say Diffusion would help.
...But it doesn't
Try rearranging your example
T1
T2 Devour Flesh (sac Striking)
T3 ...take 2
T4 Bile Blight the Diffusion... take 6
t5 DownFall, Ultimate Price
T6 Gray Merchant and it's basically over
T7 Demon
So what?
Diffusion does not enough because of the complete lack of grunt in this deck. The deck is just not fast enough to actually kill in the space that diffusion offers.
I am planning on bulking up.
4xSentinels, 2+ Steelforms, 3xLeech and a couple of Mana Confluences.
I think that will provide a lot more early stability on the board.
There is a basic difference between my current deck and the others listed...
Impapwner-"I don't like bonescythe. Like blur sliver there are times where it would be great, but you are generally giving a bunch of 1/1's double strike. That's not scary. If we had more lords then it would be fine, but this has to be the worst sliver that costs more than 3 mana."
My deck is not 1/1's
18x 2/2's and maybe that Battle Sliver (predators are not 1/1's) and the Mutavaults of course.
More in the board.
I now have a slightly different plan against Red, Be bigger and Vigilance kill them.
I think both of them are awesome examples of cranking the handle to test out cards.
Both players would have gained a lot from reading this thread.
Both decklists have 'Chromatic Lantern' base. . . . This is not a good sign.
The second decklist has 'Hive Stirrings'.
This is just the wrong card to be playing. It just is.
Hey, I played it when I started. (My defence is there was not enough slivers back then)
The second decklist is trying to cast Dissolve.
This is a fine idea, but UU is REALLY hard, and it dont stop Verdict, which is precisely the card to hate. (Or Lifebane, 1UU just aint happening on turn 3 or turn 2 on the draw.)
And Stain the Mind look HORRIBLE in the board.
Thoughtseize , now there is an Idea. You guys with lots of Black might want to think about that one.
The first decklist has Temples and the single coolest sideboard card yet in the Polymorphists' Jest (what a Hoot!)
Annul seems pretty Narrow.
What is the point of playing counters if they dont stop the things you want to stop? (their life-total)
I think that this is likely to be the first or second time those guys have played this deck. Both of these results are just fine, don't get me wrong, and the cards they are playing that dont match us are real cards that do real things, but I do not believe they would have played the same decks tomorrow.
And the sideboards would look completely different.
Both decks have diffusion in the board.
Both play 4 Hivelord.
Both have 2 Chords ( one is in the board )
The best example of these decks being new, and lumpy, is the fact the first deck is playing 2x Galeriders. No one that has played this deck extensively will play 2.
Ah.... actually, the first deck is playing ZERO Predator Sliver base. And it went top 8? What is all that about?
The second one is much more like what I think the Hivelord version should be like.
His sideboard mostly looks wrong though.
And I do not believe the Hivelord version is the way to go in competitive tournaments.
It is too slow and just doesn't stop the problem cards. Indestructible is just not what it used to be there are dozens of cards that laugh at it. (Poly Jest for instance)
The Hivelord requires too many changes to the base deck, and doesn't do much against the decks it is needed since they will kill you faster, and ignore him.
Steelform was mentioned 14 times last page.
Obelisk has been mentioned and discarded maybe 4? times.
Looking forward to playing it tomorrow.
Were any of the sideboard cards good?
What did you board out?
...And Steelform just stops Golgari Charm too. (0/+1)
I think the focus on Chord is making it too hard to cast Boros Charm.
Your build seems to like GB more, Golgari will regen them, stopping Verdict.
Is mixing chord with bonescythe working for you?
(I figure a bonescythe is likely to force a stall.
Then a Chord happens at their end of turn and alpha strike.)
I find this a bit surprising.
And that I think you did not side them out against b/r.
Maybe you just dont have enuff to side in, you didn't think about it, or I might just be wrong.
That B/R is the bit that interests me.
In your B/R loss, what did you side in? What did you board out?
(guess = Chord, Hivelord, Constricting, Galeriders?, ... should be Leeching )
Steelform on turn 3 just stops the desciption of both your losses. The Drown would not work, and Shocks do not stop a 3 toughness creature.
Bile Blight went straight through the Diffusion Sliver and killed 2xPredators.
Yep.
And then you are dead coz the diffusion utterly failed at it's job.
Steelform *might* have won this as well.
It is why I do not believe in Chord for X is good enough as a universal starter.
Chord is also going to suck against Mono-U, your other loss.
I do not play those cards.
I think I have better match ups against those two decks. (need to check)
Really?
I said there was lots of aggro.
Then Someone said I had a weird meta and my version would not work out there in the long game. Do you remember who it was?
Syphon is what I have been thinking about versus decks trying to race.
But Steelform is hopefully going to work better.
hmmm.
Things like Diffusion, venom, and striking just dont do enuff against Blue.
They can see your tricks, do their own, and counterspell for the win.
Sounds bad.
I think Mystcutter Wurm is really needed for you.
I just dont see how a 6 Cost Constricting Sliver is going to win on a regular basis.
Sure it has a huge immediate impact, but is it as much as Elspeth?
Mostly, I do not see it, althought there is certainly going to be times where it is just better.
The reason I would play Elpeth over Constricting is that whole 'After the boardwipe' situation where Elspeth just wins. The other reason would play Elpeth is that whole 'Before the boardwipe' situation where Elspeth just wins.
6 cost means long game for me.
Some one should test that.
I play 9 in maindeck, Is that enough?
Look, The standard consensus is that we all play 4 Mana Confluence, see above.
Temples help with the only problems you are mentioning. 'too many' & 'too few' are what Temples sort out.
Very interested to see it.
Especially where the Hivelords are.
Will Hivelords only in the Sideboard be an interesting statement from the only 4-0 player so far?
Yes, he mentioned Chord of calling.
Yes, his contribution of Chromatic Lantern is very, very bad.
Yes , he decided to insult me, and then repost information I had already posted.
The difference between our two lists is that mine is earlier, accurate, and does not involve insults.
Verbose = Big Kiss ?
Why did you not embrace him?
His mind had pitfalls and triumphs. His mind is a hammer, and stuff.
Phewh!
There was no top 8 at my last tourney, so it wasn't me.
Gee Whiz!
Who are you?
You say Chromatic Lantern might be good.
It isn't.
Chromatic Lantern is really, really bad.
You play a full day .
broke my brain.
3/1/1 . .
then 3/1/3
the loss was in the last round after my brain had melted.
Wow. what a deck.
Q2 How often are you guys losing to aggro because of mana confluence?
Q3 What is beating you?
Q4 What do you beat?
Q5 Is there anything in M15 that hurts black or swamps?
A5 No. Nuthin. nup. nada.
Q6 After casting Chord, how often do you lose?
Q7 After casting Hivelord, how often do you lose?
I would appreciate a couple of responces.
stuff like ..
X 20%
y 40%
z 30%
Manaweft 0%
Would be great.
As would descriptive responces.
I am thinking of playing some as toys. maybe even a lord if I am gunna get silly.
or is it too late?
Blaklanner, the deck looks pretty good.
- - -
Playing one Steelform in the Chord decks seemed like a good idea....until I realised predator is better, and cheaper.
Steelform is also going to help my leeching Slivers in that they keep bodies alive for the next attack.
I think Leeching may well be the extra damage I needed.
And regarding Thoughtseize, it is not like other cards.
When I get a savagely anti red/green/white spell in my sideboard, I get to use it.
This is not true for Blue in that they might counter it, or bounce it. This is why Boil is SO effective. Instant, and destroy your position.
Black Sideboard teck SUCKS. Look earlier in this thread. I look, and I look , and I look. They would take the Assemble the Legion, or it would just be too slow. Elspeth worked much better. She is way more effective immediately, and the reason that mattered was because of the Temples and the Magma Jet digging to find Elspeth. Temples are really good in this, Slivers often want variety and land stability, they help.
Thememan -
Vintage, on the other hand....
And Highlander, (proper 60 cards, Vintage Pointed) is a serious local format that i have taken seriously for years. Try watching sideboards for that !
It is SO fast, and reliable.
5 colour sillyness, and I am calling it reliable
The Hive makes everything EASY. The hive is MY Deck.
I really understand where you are coming from Thememan, but we really aint playing the same deck.
I can kill red/green with speed.
Chord of Calling is better when the game is going longer, like the Hivelord.
I do not want the game to go longer.
I fully understand that the way this deck loses is if the opponent manages to pull a strong draw.
And if that happens it will take a while for the game to be over, and I aint gunna be the one winning.
Getting an instant speed flyer is good.
Belligerent seems better and does cost triple GGG
I see that chord gets the right one, but it is AWFUL against sprint.
I think I need to actually play a couple of dozen game with my current layout.
Leech is not the same as predator.
Bonescythe is the obvious example, but you do not play it so obviously it isn't obvious.
Golgari Charm only wipes out one. Chandra only kills one.
I am hoping to not have to attack more than once.
One attack for the win is a simple plan.
Another example of the difference between Leech & Predator is when another Sliver Blocks.
Leech does not help. Predator does.
Dealing 1 damage and trading with a 1/1 is way worse that just killing something, mostly.
Diffusion is just a Two cost 1/1 sliver, until someone tries to point at my team.
If the other guy is not actually pointing at your guys, like I don't, Diffusion is AWFUL.
Diffusion in late-late game, does nothing.
Diffusion does not work against mono-U, sprint red, sprint black, hex-proof... Dunno what else is out there really. It is a new season. Having Abrupt decay just laugh at Diffusion Sliver is SAD. So is Golgari Charm.
Diffusion does seem good against Black, that is why I am keeping them for the moment. Drown in Sorry is just a downer.
And stopping someone from casting creature kill is just so not the same as enforced Mulligans.
This is Black you are typing about.
Fine, Turn one Thoughtseize, take the Diffusion Sliver. And if I did not draw creature kill, or I am more scared of the bonescythe, or manaweft, I will worry about it later, after I can wipe the board with Black.
Diffusion vs Black just seems a bit hopeful.
Having just a diffusion Sliver and nuthing else is what Black is trying to get Us too. The SLivers need to be able to do something useful, not just stop them doing something useful. And regularly Diffusion just doesn't.
When I played them lots of people kept picking him up. Spectators, judges, other players. 'Wow!' people would go. It did not actually stop Polukranos, but it made him pay more as it was over.
Banking on Hivelord to win after Two Attacks, is WAY HOPEFUL.
Two attacks may not reach 20 damage, especially after blockers.
Hivelord is just not the way.
Not my way anyway.
Looking forward to lots more games.
It is way cool to goldfish this deck, take seven, play 5 turns, put everything in the graveyard, start again.
(All Temple rejects get put in the graveyard)
of all things, I think I take out the manawefts against red.
11 cards go in.
llanowar Coast, 2 Temple of Plenty switch to Temple of Triumph and Fountain
three non red-(white?) land go out, three go in.
Maybe 1 Belligerent and 2 Galeriders and 3 Leeches and 1 Blur and 1 manaweft?
hmmm maybe not then on the manawefts.
2 Steelform Sliver
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Mizzium Mortars
3 Magma Jet
2 Magma Spray
2 Temple of Triumph
I reckon if you ae actively trying to kill me, leech is likely the first against the wall.
I feel dirty shuffling these mana confluence proxies.
Steelform is going to be good. Got a good feeling about this.
He beats Golgari charm. He makes deathtouch better, he might make Drown in Sorrow not work, and Anger of the god is still looking difficult as the 3 damage kills the Predator, and then the steel... Even so. I really like them. Lots of people have critters to block with, or that need blocking. Surviving long enough to kill them helps.
I am keeping diffusion for the moment in the board, maybe it will work against Black
Here is what I am shuffling....SliverBlitz!
4 Battlefield Forge
1 Yavimaya Coast
4 Temple of Plenty
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Triumph
4 Mutavaults
2 Mana Confluence
4 Manaweft Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
3 Venom Sliver
3 Blur Sliver
1 Belligerant Sliver
1 Battle Sliver
4 Bonescythe Sliver
2 Steelform Sliver
3 Sentinel Sliver
3 Leech Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
3 Diffusion Sliver
1 Belligerent Sliver
2 Steelform Sliver
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Mizzium Mortars
3 Magma Jet
2 Magma Spray
2 Temple of Triumph
... now that is a Sliver deck.
You demonstrate how Black can stop My Slivers.
Then you say Diffusion would help.
...But it doesn't
Try rearranging your example
T1
T2 Devour Flesh (sac Striking)
T3 ...take 2
T4 Bile Blight the Diffusion... take 6
t5 DownFall, Ultimate Price
T6 Gray Merchant and it's basically over
T7 Demon
So what?
Diffusion does not enough because of the complete lack of grunt in this deck. The deck is just not fast enough to actually kill in the space that diffusion offers.
I am planning on bulking up.
4xSentinels, 2+ Steelforms, 3xLeech and a couple of Mana Confluences.
I think that will provide a lot more early stability on the board.
There is a basic difference between my current deck and the others listed...
Impapwner-"I don't like bonescythe. Like blur sliver there are times where it would be great, but you are generally giving a bunch of 1/1's double strike. That's not scary. If we had more lords then it would be fine, but this has to be the worst sliver that costs more than 3 mana."
My deck is not 1/1's
18x 2/2's and maybe that Battle Sliver (predators are not 1/1's) and the Mutavaults of course.
More in the board.
I now have a slightly different plan against Red, Be bigger and Vigilance kill them.