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  • posted a message on White Weenie Wallop
    Quote from Sliv3r »
    Did you try Smuggler's Copter? I know it doesn't get buffed by Wilt-Leaf Liege. Makes your creatures 3/3 looting hasters tho. And dodges Wraths. Should be more reliable and overall useful than White Shield Crusader.



    Ah. Smugglers copter is really ordinary in this deck.
    When they cast Wrath, all my creatures go away.
    Then I cast more.
    If the creature I cast is a White Shield Crusader, it can fly and dump all my mana into it.
    Smugglers copter does nothing until I cast another creature, which may be bigger than it anyway.



    Smugglers copter does not work with Kytheon.
    Or Legions Landing.
    Or Windbrisk Heights.
    Or WLL
    Or Benana Man. (The creature I am tapping to crew the copter is power 2.)
    Smugglers copter is also the only artifact, and so will be targetted.

    Smugglers copter is beyond awful, in this anyway.

    And as to dodging Wrath. . .
    Gaddock Teeg turns wrath off.
    Little Thalia makes it more expensive.
    Big Thalia might delay it for the game winning turn.
    Kytheon is not a creature when you cast wrath.
    Selfless spirit make me immune to Wrath

    So. . . Wrath really isn't a problem.
    . . . Smile

    Terminus can be a hassle.

    Also, when then cast a Death's Shadow, which card would you prefer?
    Copter or White shield crusader?

    How about Assassins Trophy?
    Or Liliana?
    Or Bitterblossom?
    Or fatal Push?
    Or Path to exile?
    Or Geth?
    Or Grim Flayer?
    Or Tasigur?
    Or Grim Angler?
    Or Bob?
    Or Maelstrom Pulse?
    Or Path to exile?
    . . .Or disenchant?

    It costs crew 1 to power it.
    I have precisely ONE power 1 creature, the Vampire created off the singleton Legions Landing.
    That's it.
    And because that Vamp is tapping to crew the Copter, it does not count toward triggering the Landing.

    Sure, maybe a flying 1/1 spirit created by a spectral procession might work, but, shouldn't the 2 drop be protecting the 3 drop? Like the 3xSelfless spirits?


    But, apart from that, in a normal, boring aggro deck,
    . . .sure, copter is a fine card. I guess.



    Ah. And it sucks against searing blaze.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on White Weenie Wallop
    2/2/0 at GamesL


    2/1 Amulet 1/1 after in socials

    2/0 Miracles Grumpy and social after. Smile

    0/2 Red/white Burn 1/1 in socials

    1/2 Black/Green/w Premium Goodstuff


    All fully maxed decks played by reasonable players
    Sure, the Amulet player could have been better, but he had only been playing in for 5 days, and that deck is hard.
    Path is really strong in this one. They put so much effort in, and then the Titan goes away.


    The Miracles player knows his stuff and was adamant he should win 70% of the time.
    I have played, and beaten him twice. Smile


    Burn is just hard.
    It really regularly goes with the play, and I lost the roll, and then stuffed up a Path to Exile on a Eidolon.
    I should have let the eidolon kill him. D'oh. The two in socials went with serve.
    Maybe I should play a couple of devoted anti red cards.
    Martyr of Sands is still way cool.
    Path is a really dodgy call in this match. Dunno. Maybe not when I am on the play. Maybe not at all.


    Against Black green, Inquiz took an Isamaru on first turn, then a bit of a flood
    Game two Thoughtseize got a Devout lightcaster, and the game went real long.
    Sideboard in 12 cards, including all 4 paths to exile, which was a huge mistake.
    Took out the Gaddocks, and then lost to a -3/-3, four cost black spell.
    Scooze/Tireless tracker/ Tarmogoyf / Lingering souls / Geth / Path / Fatal P - even an Anafenza in game one.
    Just quality spells that try to spam together enough to stay alive , and then play something that will slowly win.
    Helping him by pathing his creatures isn't going to win because he will use the land.
    I need to kill him faster, by ignoring his Tarmogoyf.
    Both Wrath of Gods were brought in. Both hid, and probably would have sucked badly anyway. Hmmmm.
    Humans, Merfolk and Slivers be damned, the Wraths are outa here.
    Sunlance is looking awful tempting.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    Default basedeck for Mono-U



    Most lists are 2 cards off.
    The two removed cards are often Chart a course, Spell pierce and maybe a Warkite.
    Sometimes, the 4xOpts are removed.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    This is the 10-0 deck.

    It has some pretty wacky features, and I wish he was here to talk me though how he sideboarded, especially about what he would take out.


    Sure cards we expect
    1 Negate (only One?)
    1 Syncopate (only One?)
    1 Spell Pierce (only One? And only one basedeck?)
    2 Exclusion mages (where is the 4th?)
    2 Essence Scatter (None base?)
    2 Surge Mare ( Yeah, sure, whatever)


    Unusual Cards
    1 Sleep (One in Base already?)
    1 Selective Snare
    1 Warkite Marauder (The 4th, but,in the board is odd)


    Huh?
    1 Jace, Cunning Castaway
    1 Karn, Scion of Urza
    1 Island (This guy has style)



    When Sleep is named in this thread, it is always, "And then Sleep didn't work"
    He is playing 1 base, and a 2nd in the board.

    One basedeck Warkite is morphed into a basedeck Exclusion Mage
    the 4th Warkite is in the board, as is 2 more exclusion mages.

    I like the Bonus Island in the board, that to me is proof he really knows exactly how he is sideboarding.
    12 different cards in the board is NOT how lists on this thread read.

    One spell pierce base I can agree with after testing.
    (Often it rocks, and sometimes Spell Pierce loses the game.)


    His base deck is pretty standard, mostly.
    20/20/20 - with only a Sleep, and Exclusion mage added (-SP, -WKM)

    It is his board that has me interested.

    I have kept a Karn specifically for this deck.
    It is a big dumb Chart a Course that happens at half speed for the rest of the game.
    It is to help deal with mana flood when fighting against Control.
    The blocker aspect is pretty desperate, but I have spent some time thinking about it when trying to figure out how to get Zahid into play, since the construct is an artifact.


    Jace is very cunning indeed.

    It is trying to deal with mana floods, and board wipes.
    He is trying to be a soft lock. A Herald / Stormy providing a supply of counterspells is odd.
    And then he splits, and suddenly there is ALWAYS a counterspell, and then he splits again, and provides 4 x 2/2 illusions for the win. And counterspells.
    It is a very strange twist on the basics of how this deck already works.

    Jace works faster than I thought.
    Turn 3 Play Jace 3->4
    Turn 4 Jace 4->5
    Turn 5 Split 3->4 AND 3->4
    Turn 6 Jace 4->5 AND Jace 4->5
    Turn 7 Splitx2 And Make 4 x 2/2 illusions while having four Jaces on 1 Loyalty (!)
    .
    . . .And by turn 6 there is SIX Draw&Discard events making converting a Lot of cards into counterspells.

    I would be interested to know if Jace ever actually worked in the tournament. Same with Karn.
    And, how often did he sideboard the Island in?


    The base deck mister 10-0 plays, is incredibly consistent with everything posted here.
    His sideboard is too, except for the wacky long game cards.

    The Mono-U "Long Game" is roundly dismissed on this thread by the, ah, establishment.
    Karn, Jace, and the Island, are all evidence that the 'Long Game' is part of what he is thinking about.

    I wonder if there are any other "long game" playable cards not played by anyone else?
    Maybe those cards would be cheap, blue . . . and hopefully a wizard? Smile

    * * *

    I went thru all 29 previous decklists posted here
    I counted the number of Unique sideboard cards in each listing . . .

    5 : 1
    6 : 7
    7 : 8
    8 : 6
    9 : 3
    10 : 4

    This means there was ONE deck that had only 5 unique cards in it's sideboard, and there were FOUR decks that had 10 unique cards in the sideboard.

    The deck that went 10 -0 is an exception to this.
    His deck has TWELVE unique cards in it's sideboard.

    Of those 12 cards, Karn is a unique outlier, and Jace is mentioned only on page 1.
    (I mentioned wanting an Island in the board, but didn't do it.)
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    Amulet is interesting. Works against Thousand year storm.
    How effective is it against Red Aggro?
    I spoze it works against Selasnya Tokens, but, How well?

    Is it good enough to use against Red to justify playing Zahid?
    (I think Red Aggro is still a real problem for this deck. Mostly it beats me)


    Whisper Agent just doesn't seem classy enough.


    Are you sure about Metamorphic Alteration working on Untargetable Stuff?
    It doesn't say 'Target', but, . . . ?


    I do not believe Chart a Course will stay in the deck long term.


    I do not believe Surge Mare is good enough against G/B, or Red.
    Blocking a 2 power explorer just isn't good enough since they have still drawn the mana they need. Everything in G/B is a snowball that ends with a big hammer.
    They can still target it with all their Black kill so, whats the point?



    And yeah, Since the deck does have any sweepers, Flood & mana screw are real problems. More so than most.
    Too little land will happen more than too much, but that is what the Opt's are really for, increasing the stability of the land draw. I do not believe this deck can be effective on 18 land, and personally, I would prefer 21 on the play.
    I reckon an Island in the board may be worthwhile.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    Yup, that basedeck is 2 cards off what I want to play next.

    -2 Spell pierce
    +1 Mystic A
    +1 Essence Scatter

    So, obviously I am way off target, because 58 same is 2 different.

    My sideboard will be WAY different though, 9 cards look bad to me.
    Deep freeze blows
    Sleep is mostly poor
    Selective snare seems very narrow
    & Surge Mare hasn't worked for me.


    Just to be clear, I have written above, and you have quoted. . .
    " a singleton could be a good call. "
    . . And that is too much for you to cope with.

    Wow. A new card you have not played is unacceptable.
    You claim to "play with the deck a lot in a competitive environment so I know what I'm talking about when I evaluate the cards in it."

    Sure.
    And that's why you know everything about the cards that are NOT in it. Smile


    JK- "In general, I'm a big advocate for playtesting. For example, playing a deck with the full playset of Curious Obsession is important if you want to understand how the cards in the deck work together. If you are only drawing Curious Obsession half as often as everybody else you will get a skewed idea of how often the deck runs out of gas. "

    Have you ever heard the term "Proxies" ?
    Because they aint legal in tournaments, but seem to do fine outside of them.


    JK- "However, when a card is underpowered on its face the burden of proof shifts the other way: somebody needs to do well with it before anybody will believe that they are good."

    If somebody needs to do well with the cards before they are played, they will never get played.
    I have played the card, and it worked.



    JK -" I understand this, which is why I don't get all pissy when people don't buy into my advice on Surge Mare."
    Ah, yes.
    Surge Mare.
    At least some of the decks you list have Surge Mare, including one of the last 3 lists you posted.
    Personally, my current build has 2 in the board, but they have been crap for me, and I will be removing them.
    Most sideboards dont have them. Spoze most of us are wrong.


    JK -"My point, which I apparently have not explained clearly enough, is that Mystic Archaeologist is an underpowered vanilla two drop until you have five extra mana available."
    When did that become your point? I said that from the start.


    JK- "Furthermore, you will never have five unoccupied islands sitting around doing nothing until extremely late in the game."
    Or turn 5 if they don't cast something, and U has an active Obsession.
    Beyond one activation is just excess gravy.

    " why not just run Overflowing Insight?"
    Because it isn't a 2/1 wizard for U1
    And it costs SEVEN, not TWO
    And it does not carry a curious obsession in a pinch.


    JK- "The question is not when you will hit five islands. The question is when will you have five mana to spare."
    On turn 5, after they haven't cast anything.
    . . and at that point the Mystic Archaeologist ends the game.


    JK- " If you are actually taking turn five off in order to activate Mystic Archaeologist, well, no wonder you think the deck is bad and needs fixing if that's how you're playing it."

    Really?
    I think the deck is bad because I think a singleton Mystic Archaeologist might be worthwhile !
    Tee-Hee You Funny !
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    Hey jacobk, Since, as you claim "This deck, as constituted, has put up a 5-0 competitive list in every WotC metagame release."
    Whats the decklist?
    Does it play Opt?

    Since it has been 'constituted' it must have a really regular 15 sideboard cards.
    What's the sideboard?

    Does it play sleep?
    or Entrancing Melody?
    or Surge Mare?

    .
    I have been unable to find the last 2 Obsessions to buy, 2 is not my preferred number.
    Making stuff up, and claiming I wrote it seems a tad rude.
    .
    This deck uses small Blue wizards.
    I have played one called Mystic Archaeologist, and You have not.
    Yet, You know it is 'Just Bad'. Smile
    .
    You claim 'double digits' of turns are required to play 5 Islands.
    Pretty Regularly I can do that on the 5th turn. Why can't you?
    Have you played Curious Obsession? It lets you draw loads of card, some of which are Islands.
    Since Curious obsession draws cards, and 1/3rd are islands, why does it take you 'double digits' of turns?

    Hey wow, Mystic Archaeologist combo's with Curious obsession. . . .must be 'Just Bad' Smile

    .

    I found 8 pirates was not enough for the discount to reliably happen, but it was close.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    If you side in heaps of counters, and the opponent has few creatures, mystic A is awesome.

    I know this, because I have played it.

    Keeping up with 6 mana bombs is easy, if you counter them.

    And sure, 3 mana for the Djinn, plus 1 or 2 mana for the counter.
    Then, something happens to the Djinn.
    And that's game over.

    I had that exact situation in my last match. The one you describe.
    I cast Djinn, with U left over for my Spell Pierce.
    He cast Lava Coil, and I Lost.

    Curious obsession is difficult to stick on a creature when they have so much point and kill early on.


    In the situation you describe, it is not 'Going to die immediately'.
    Worst case it will die, and draw 2 cards. 3 for 1.
    And that is the explicit case you reckon is Horrible.

    Have you considered it costs 1U ?
    Not 7 ?
    And we are playing counterspells?
    And draw 2 cards happens at instant speed?
    . . And Primarily it is just a 2 cost wizard?

    I mean, the card does just win games when left alone.

    I realise this is outside of you ken, but, this is a completely reasonable suggestion, and I have played it, and it has worked for me.

    I have actually played a game against G/B where he activated multiple times per turn.
    Furiously throwing away blockers, then the Djinn swung ONCE, for Fourteen.
    Sure, that is an odd situation.
    But it happens, and he powers the Wizards retort.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    Yes. Sleep is terrific in the right Match up.
    What is that match up?

    And, 1U for a 2/1 Wizard aint 'Just Bad' Smile
    This deck does suffer from Mana floods sometimes, and does just die when it happens.

    This deck has no Long game.
    5 mana is a flood. Against U/W, or 1000 year storm, Mystic A rocks.
    Against Creatureless, Mystic A is "Classic sideboard material."

    This deck can't recover, or fight B/G long term, except maybe through Mystic A.

    Against creatureless, would you prefer Exclusion Mage or Essence Scatter?
    Increasing the number of counterspells means a board standstill can and does happen.

    Two tournaments ago, in 3 of the 4 rounds, Mystic A activated his ability.
    Mystic A's ability has won me games, admittedly when playing 3 more land, but even so, if you think he is 'Just Bad' you obviously have never played him.
    If you are solely focussed on the 'Rush', then sure. Hope it always works for you.

    Mystic A is not about just the charge approach.
    All the other 2 drops are better in most other match ups on turn 2. Obviously.
    Mystic A is the last card you play, Like Sleep, or it can be a pinch hitter at 2 cost.
    In Mono-U Tempo, he is obviously not a 4 of in base deck, but, a singleton could be a good call.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    I have tried the Dreamcaller Siren a couple of times instead of sleep.

    It has worked in one game, total.
    (In a 2nd game it sort-of worked in that the opponent killed it because they did not read the card. He didn't realise I couldn't block anyway.)

    Given the choice, I think Mystic Architect would sorta do that job better.

    1- Block and die, draw two cards
    2- Or draw 2 cards, play a blocker (repeat?)

    Both of which has happened for me.
    It is really surprising how often Mystic draws 2 cards.

    But, sleep just seems hopeful, and seems really unlikely to work.
    If our clock was MUCH faster, maybe.

    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    Do you keep 1 Island hands if they have an Opt?

    This is the chance of a 0 Island hand with 20 Islands in 60 cards, from 7 cards
    40/60 *39/59 *38/58 *37/57 *36/56 *35/55 *34/54 * 100% = 93963542400 / 1946482876800 *100% = 4.83 %

    Chance of a 1 land hand with 20 Islands in 60 cards, from 7 cards
    40/60 *39/59 * 38/58 *37/57 *36/56 * 35/55 * (20/54 * 7) * 100%
    = 2763633600 / 36045979200 * (20/54 * 7)
    = 386908704000 / 1946482876800 * 100%
    = 19.88 %

    Combined, that mean 24.71 % Mulligans for first 7 cards


    Playing with Opt, (and keeping 1 land hands) means those 19.88% might be keepers.
    For any of those 6 cards to be an opt, and not caring if more than one is an opt :

    NO OPT in those 6 drawn cards =
    = 36/40* 35/39 * 34/38 * 33/37 * 32/36 * 31/35 * 100%
    = 36*35*34*33*32*31 / 40*39*38*37*36*35 *100%
    = 1402410240 / 2763633600 *100%
    = 50.75 %

    Drawing an opt (or more) is going to happen 49.25% of the time when Mono Blue draws only 1 Island in the opening 7.


    Since 19.88 % of the time Mono Blue draws exactly 1 Island, playing 4 Opt makes those 'Keepers' 49.25% of the time, or 9.79% of total initial draws.


    Conclusion :
    No Islands = 4.83%
    1 Island, No Opt = 10.09%
    1 Island, with Opt(s) = 9.79%

    . . .So, do you keep 1 Island hands if they have an Opt?

    . . .
    The chance of draw Zero Islands if playing 21 lands is
    77519922480 / 1946482876800 *100%
    =3.98256 %

    Compared with 20 Islands @ 4.83 % . . . Hmmmmm

    .
    So, When a 1 lander with an Opt is kept, How regularly does Mono-U just crash and burn?
    Crash and burn is defined as no 2nd land on turn Two.
    (Obviously just drawing them would be great)


    On the PLAY . . . . No 2nd land when 1 Island, with a single Opt.
    Turn 1 Cast Opt, Scry "Not Island", Draw "Not Island"
    Turn 2 Draw "Not Island"
    53 cards still in deck at start. 19 land and 34 Spells
    Scry "Not Island" 34/53
    Draw "Not Island" 33/52
    Turn 2 Draw "Not Island" 32/51
    = 34/53 * 33/52 * 32/51
    = 53904 / 140556
    = 38.35 % - No 2nd Land


    On the draw . . . . No 2nd land when 1 Island, with a single Opt.
    Turn 1 Draw "Not Island"
    Cast Opt, Scry "Not Island", Draw "Not Island"
    Turn 2 Draw "Not Island"

    53 cards still in deck at start. 19 land and 34 Spells

    Turn 1 -Draw "Not Island" 34/53
    Opt . . . Scry "Not Island" 33/52 & Draw "Not Island" 32/51
    Turn 2 Draw "Not Island" 31/50
    = 34/53 * 33/52 * 32/51 * 31/50
    = 53904 / 140556 * 31/50
    = 23.77%

    . . .

    All Island =
    = 20/60 * 19/59 * 18/58 * 17/57 *16/56 * 15/55 * 14/54
    = 390700800 / 1946482876800
    = 0.000201
    = 0.02 %

    6 Islands & 5 Islands are also probably Mulligans too.
    Maybe I'll figure those too, but I figuring they will total maybe 3%.

    .

    I think that means on the play, maybe toss it, but keep 1 landers with an Opt on the draw.
    And definately Keep 1 Landers after a Mulligan.

    . . .
    Initially, I worked out the Chance of a 1 land hand with 20 Islands in 60 cards, from 7 cards
    = 19.88 %

    Among those is the distinct possibility that One lander is actually a power-draw.

    Island + Curious Obsession + (Stormy / MC Herald)

    Especially on the play, this significant amount of hands, seems strong.
    Including an Opt doesn't seem to improve, or replace the turn 1&2 plays.

    If exactly 1 Island & at least 1 Curious Obsession is drawn, the chances of getting a Stormtamer or Herald is VERY high.
    8 cards out of 39, 5 times racks up quickly.

    Sure, the opponent may Dead Weight / shock, but, that's magic.
    On the play, lightning strike might still get countered.
    .

    The problem with Tossing 1 land hands, is, what is better?
    After a Mulligan, obviously, 2 Islands & 4 spells is best.

    And, 1 land again is actually better since that 7th card might be a land, and scry-ed away if it aint.
    All 6 Islands is Trash.
    5 cards and a Djinn is BAD.
    4 Islands seems like a slow loss.
    3 Islands seems OK.

    Only 2 islands from 6 seems obviously better, maybe 3.


    Final Thoughts -
    Take a really serious look at your 1-Land hands before throwing them away with this particular deck.
    Does it have an Opt?
    Does it have Curious + 1-Cost Creature?
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    Quote from FANAttIC »
    What is Obv in having 2 Obsessions if the rest of us want more than 4?

    Sigh.
    Reading is hard.

    Me-> "Curious obsession only got cast once, but I was only playing 2. Just can't find the rest. Not playing the herald either, but, I think that might actually be the right decision, especially if ya only playing 2 obsession."
    Me-> "This Version needs more grunt (and 2 obsessions Obv)"

    Hey Giraffe.
    Do you eat words often?
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    Went 3/1

    Plan A is definitely get a Djinn & protect it. The thing is a beast.
    Curious obsession only got cast once, but I was only playing 2. Just can't find the rest. Not playing the herald either, but, I think that might actually be the right decision, especially if ya only playing 2 obsession.

    Mana Flood & mana screw are just so common in this deck (compared to what I normally play).
    Die-ing while holding 3 spell pierce & a Wiz counter was disappointing in the final game.
    Spell Pierce was awesome, and awful.
    Djinn + Spell pierce sucks when they play a 4th land and Lava Coil the Djinn Frown

    Dive down was just better, except against Deafening Clarion, which did seem to (not) get cast a lot.



    I was surprised that Essence Scatter got boarded out twice. Played against Jeskai & Thousand Year Storm, so, yeah.
    Surge Mare got board in against Jeskai! (But it hid)
    .
    Flamekin is way strong in red, which beat me.
    Not sure this deck can reliably beat red when on the draw.
    .
    Confirmed a lot of my suspicions.
    This is can be a hard deck to play well, and the hardest part is knowing when to mulligan.

    This Version needs more grunt (and 2 obsessions Obv)


    So much NO!
    Adding the Mist-cloak (&2 extra Obsessions) is obviously the differences between me and the mainstream You.
    I got the Heralds (had to actually trade for them, none of the 3 stores had em), but, don't wanna add all 4.
    22 land is too many, but, I did get an Island free 7, and Two single Island draws as well.
    And 6 Island +Djinn
    And 5 Island +2 counters (hint, draw 3 Djinn)

    The sideboard is also, well, a bit scattered.

    4 Negate - was good
    3 Exclusion Mage - Never sideboarded
    2 Surge Mare - One went in, once
    1 Spell Pierce - Great, and sucked bad
    1 Entrancing Melody - in Once against Red, hid
    2 Syncopate - In once, fine
    1 Hornswoggle - In once against red on the play
    1 Dreamcaller Siren - Sideboard twice, unseen


    Entrancing Melody is good for Flamekin, Warboss, hasty . . .The problem is getting the mana. Reducing to 20 land makes this too unreliable. I spoze that is why the Obsession is worth pumping the number of 1 drops to carry it. I can see how that allows 1-2 Land hands to work more.
    But, mana flood is just a killer. Only the Djinn can pull out of those. An Obsessed creature will get there, I spoze, but it really is all eggs in that one basket, and a mana flood will mean you don't have the counters.

    The 2 cost mistveil's seem especially effective against red.
    The War Kites seem better in general, but seem worse against red.
    As always I focus on what beat me. A couple of Diamond Mare seems OK, but, they just dont seem to fit the Obsessed theme at all. One Drop / Obsess + DD/SP = win. . . So When would the DMare get good? Same with casting a Djinn on turn 3/4. The DMare just seems out of place, especially if I draw two.

    Maybe Mystic Archeologist is worth playing, against the big slow decks anyway.
    2/1 with a win condition bolted on seems good for 1U
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    Quote from FANAttIC »
    Quote from zenbitz »
    Warkite also makes the bounce mages much better,


    What am I missing here?
    Not sure about context, maybe Warkite the Tocatli to Mage something?


    War-Kite makes the Exclusion mages better.
    That is one of the reasons Nassif was playing the exclusion mages.

    The reason War Kite helps the exclusion mages, is because the 2/2 body on the mage becomes a threat. Keeping TWO blockers home is really not that easy, especially if both of them need to fly to stop the warkite. And if the game stalls like that, mistcloaks are still getting through.
    And another bounce mage will break the stall, or another War Kite, or a trickster.
    War Kite & exclusion mage really synergise.

    War-kite pointing at a Tocatli, then a trickster entering before blockers, is rude. So is bouncing the Lyra that was just tapped in the second main faze.
    .
    Also, Dive Down seems better than Spell pierce, mostly, on turn 2.
    Dive down in general seems better.
    .
    The reason Splashes do not work in this deck is because the best single card in it is the Tempest Djinn.
    Unanswered, Tempest Djinn can, and does, just win.
    Obsession can just, and does, just lose the game (sometimes).

    Which kinda leads to "TL/DR" from above.
    - I did read the Ben Friedman article, and do agree with it.

    I do not fit the mold described above.

    RedTwister-> "Combo, which is not an archetype but a win condition"
    Smile I played 'New Perspectives' in last Standard, all standard, and it was awesome.
    I played it because it was the only Combo in the format, and doing it, exploring it, and tweaking it was way cool.
    If you think that is a 'Win Condition', you is way, way, way wrong.

    One of the reasons I like this deck is because it is actually quite different to the other decks out there.
    Not as different as 'New Perspectives', i mean, SO NOT DIFFERENT, but, it seems to be the only non boring deck in standard.
    When people play the cards you are describing, like (field of ruin), it is cool why they mana screw themselves because it doesn't work on us.
    .
    Red Twister "Even if we accept the conflation of card types with deck archetypes, I don't understand how you can say there are no enchantments in standard when Seal Away, History of Benalia, Legion's Landing, and Ixalan's Binding are all over the place. Our whole deck wouldn't be a thing without... Curious Obsession."

    See, that is quite funny.
    I am ending up at this deck because the format is so narrow.
    Look and you will find me trying to NOT play Curious obsession. Blue Danube is me typing to myself about playing Standard Blue WITHOUT obsession. Trying to get Zahid to work, but it doesn't because of the lack of playable artifacts, and there is a complete lack of playable Big Blue anything. And that everyone must focus on stopping creatures.

    And, all of the cards you list as being enchantments, are not really enchantments.
    History of Benalia - Is creatures, and a bonus pump
    Legion's Landing - Is a creature, and then a slow way to make more creatures
    Seal Away - is creature kill
    Ixalan's Binding - is creature kill, or rarely Planewalker Kill

    What they aint is 'New Perspectives', or Sylvan Library, or 'Battle of Wits' or Land Tax or 'Oath of X'
    They are just make creatures, or kill creatures.

    All of the Blue cards in sideboards for this deck are counterspells, or ways to annoy their creatures.
    Metamorphic Alteration is the only one that stands out.

    My point is, any player that main decks artifact kill, is making a bad choice.
    Same with specialist enchantment kill.
    In this format, people ONLY win when their opponents life hits Zero, and yet devoted maindeck life gain is bad.
    I really, really, hate planeswalkers, and the effects they have had on standard.

    Playing New Perspectives for 2 years in Standard was a blast. Blowing new players minds with the possibilities of what can win tournaments, was ace. Just going 2/2 was also SO much fun as the opponents brain would still leak out their ears.
    This deck is not like that, but it does work different to the other decks out there.

    Mono Blue Tempo is a lot more in your face and directly rude.
    No, Dodge, No, Fly-over, Ignore, Win!
    . . . Is a very different game plan to Sprint or Snowball.

    A real weakness of This deck though, is it rarely recovers. Once the opponent is in control, they stay in control.
    That is what the Entrancing Melody was good at, but, with 20-21 land, it is just too difficult to use. And the big creatures are rarely worth taking, if they can be seen.

    That is why Opt should NEVER be sideboarded.
    One land, with 2 or 3 One drops is a keeper, probably, provided U-Tempo has an Opt.
    Certainly is a keeper if the hand has already been reduced to 6 cards.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Mono-blue Tempo
    Yeah, I aint seeing the variety either.

    No artifacts
    No enchantments
    No combo
    No landkill
    No man lands
    No life gain

    Sorry, where was the variety?
    Just efficient POWER cards as far as I can see, (and Izzet, and This Deck).

    Black only gets played with green
    Blue doesn't see play other than Phoenix & Jeskai, so, no counters outside of Jeskai control.

    Very little in the way of 'Boring' creatures. (By this I mean Cast creature, next turn Hit you.)
    The Simple aggro stuff seems to be just Angels.
    Maybe the WG tokens. Even Red doesn't fit the 'Boring' Profile because of Experiment & Chainwhirler.

    * ( I think there may be an effective Pirates/Nicol Bolas deck as well ) *

    This format is so small, and even more narrow than normal.
    This Blue deck is strong, is playable, and will skyrocket in cost to buy the cards.
    Even though they are mostly uncommons.
    Purely because all the other decks are so set, and largely self building.
    Eg, The best Angels deck will include lots of set cards.

    Lyra, Nullhide Ferrox, Doom Whisperer, Chupacabra, Steel leaf, Tyrant.
    (I mean, read the Carnage Tyrant's flavour text.)
    A couple of Saga, and planeswalkers, and obvious cards to build up to those cards, and that seems to be the vast majority of the format.

    Just like this deck is solidifying so quickly down to such a specific list.



    * * *

    And, my point with Chart a Course vs Anticipate is that this deck really doesn't seem to use Island number 5 at all.
    Tempest Djinn is the only way to spend 3 mana, so, what do you care if you draw a land and a spell?
    (Sure, Island number 4 is used to protect the Djinn, or double cast 2 drops.)
    Island 5 seems bad.
    Using the simplest of math, 1/3 of the deck is Islands. One third of 12 is 4. Chart a course on turn 3 on the draw, and that is cards 8,9,10 and then 11 & 12 for the Chart. Draw card 13 on turn 4, and you really don't want to see Island number 5.
    Chart a course just seems bad in a deck labelled 'Tempo'.

    Tapping out seems more important, because counter-spelling their Steel Leaf or Chainwhirler matters.

    I think Opt is already a 4 of, Chart is not in competition with Opt.
    Drawing 2x Islands is really not that good, and this deck will have very little to do with the mana, and that will happen 1 in 9.
    One in 27 with Anticipate seems a better deal.
    Sure, drawing an Island and a spell is better, or two spells, but casting a 2 cost Flier seems much better than either of those two options.

    Nightviel already seems to do that filtering, but warkite does SO much more damage.
    Warkite often allows other creatures to get through, like the Tricksters.
    Warkite also makes the bounce mages much better, which is why they are in Nassif's board.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
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