I think it's wrong to be playing anything less than 4 den protectors. The card is probably one of if not the best card in the deck whether you're playing aggro or control. The card selection you get is just too good not to be playing 4. I don't agree that it is ever bad to flood out to den protector because one of the best lines you can make is getting back den protectors and looping it, I know this from previous standard. Just bury them in CA. I would also play 4 warden.
What is Drana's Emissary actually doing for you that other cards aren't already doing better?
in my eyes it doesnt work this way, cause atarka can handle the birds easy (kills one and is stronger than the other). plenty of lists also have stormbreath dragon who can also deal with them easy. a few lists play thunderbreak regent, which is also a wall you cant get through with the wingmate.
i can see wingmate only in the mirror, but vs GR it looks like a bad card for me.
Most lists are cutting back on stormbreath because of the rise in copies of ultimate price, which also leaves thunderbreak in a bad spot. As for dealing with atarka, we have abzan charm, downfall, thoughtseize, elspeth, and also garruk post board.
This my usual plan against them
-1 tasigur, -1 bile blight, -1 dromoka's command, -2 courser
+2 price, +2 roc, +1 garruk
Post board they have a really hard time dealing those cards. Most people aren't expecting roc so they won't play around it. The same goes for garruk which is a big trump most of the time especially when they have an atarka or other big guy out. Not to mention his ability to make 3/3 deathtouch beasts have proven invaluable against their ground creatures.
It's perfectly fine if I cannot convince you, just know that this is what works for me and I don't plan on changing that until people become privvy to my sideboard plan. Luckily for me though, no one at my store playing anything GR related so I have an easy time crushing everyone.
They let me fly over for damage. GR decks don't really have anything to deal with two 3/4's. Being that they both have flying is a pretty big deal in the matchup. And with the resources they do have, they can only focus on taking out one (usually the wingmate roc itself), and that leaves them short on ways to deal with everything else I'm throwing at them. Now that I'm running tragic arrogance also, they are going to have a hard time keeping a board. Same goes with languish as well.
This matchup is still extremely hard but we have to do what we can to try and give us the best chance to win. I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts here. Roc might not be for everyone but it has served me well in the times I'd have to play against either GR Monsters or GR Devotion.
The deck has been fantastic to me the last 4 FNM's going 13-3-1. Overall, I'm 25-14-2 with the deck. That's a 61% win rate and one that I'm happy about. The deck has been just the absolutely nuts when I need it to be and the manabase is perfect, I rarely if ever need to mulligan. I'd say I mulligan twice every 15-20 matches. I love everything about my take on the archetype.
I've been running with 26. You want to make sure you are able to hit your land drops consistently. I wouldn't consider going below that, doesn't feel right to me.
Still not on Obliterate Mode yet. 2-2 tonight. One of the wins was a bye. Both Abzan decks bodied me with nut hands.
Given how last week went after starting out like this... I ain't upset! It just better pay off on Saturday...
Not sure if I like the Nissa's right now, I just feel warping your mana to fit them in isn't where you want to be. I think adding in Tasigur and additional copies of Languish to the main might serve you better. I also think 2 Ultimate Price in the main could be something better. They aren't that great in the mirror and they are just okay against swarmy decks. This would be a good cut for the Languishes.
I don't think Nissa is needed because it will warp your manabase to be able to play her consistently and her +1 ability on the walker side while good, probably isn't any better than just casting an abzan charm. I'm also not a fan of 27 land, seems like 1 too many to me.
4 Den Protector
2 Dragonlord Dromoka
3 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Siege Rhino
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Abzan Charm
4 Dromoka's Command
2 Languish
1 Read the Bones
3 Ruinous Path
2 Tragic Arrogance
1 Utter End
2 Caves of Koilos
3 Forest
2 Evolving Wilds
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Plains
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Shambling Vent
2 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
4 Arashin Cleric
1 Despise
1 Duress
1 Read the Bones
1 Tragic Arrogance
3 Ultimate Price
2 Utter End
2 Wingmate Roc
Won't have my cards until after the 2nd but initial testing looks promising.
What is Drana's Emissary actually doing for you that other cards aren't already doing better?
4 Siege Rhino
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Dragonlord Dromoka
3 Ruinous Path
4 Abzan Charm
2 Tragic Arrogance
4 Dromoka's Command
1 Read the Bones
2 Languish
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Utter End
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Plains
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Scoured Barrens
1 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
1 Canopy Vista
4 Shambling Vent
1 Despise
1 Duress
4 Arashin Cleric
3 Ultimate Price
1 Read the Bones
2 Utter End
1 Tragic Arrogance
2 Wingmate Roc
4 Siege Rhino
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Wingmate Roc
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Dragonlord Dromoka
3 Ruinous Path
4 Abzan Charm
2 Tragic Arrogance
4 Dromoka's Command
1 Read the Bones
2 Languish
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Utter End
2 Forest
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Plains
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Scoured Barrens
1 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
1 Canopy Vista
4 Shambling Vent
2 Duress
4 Arashin Cleric
3 Ultimate Price
1 Read the Bones
2 Utter End
1 Tragic Arrogance
2 Wingmate Roc
Rd 1 - RB Dragons (2-1) W
Rd 2 - UW Heroic (2-0) W
Rd 3 - UB Thopters (1-2) L
Rd 4 - UG Phophet (2-0) W
Rd 5 - Bant Enchantments (2-0) W
Win rate is now 63%.
Most lists are cutting back on stormbreath because of the rise in copies of ultimate price, which also leaves thunderbreak in a bad spot. As for dealing with atarka, we have abzan charm, downfall, thoughtseize, elspeth, and also garruk post board.
This my usual plan against them
-1 tasigur, -1 bile blight, -1 dromoka's command, -2 courser
+2 price, +2 roc, +1 garruk
Post board they have a really hard time dealing those cards. Most people aren't expecting roc so they won't play around it. The same goes for garruk which is a big trump most of the time especially when they have an atarka or other big guy out. Not to mention his ability to make 3/3 deathtouch beasts have proven invaluable against their ground creatures.
It's perfectly fine if I cannot convince you, just know that this is what works for me and I don't plan on changing that until people become privvy to my sideboard plan. Luckily for me though, no one at my store playing anything GR related so I have an easy time crushing everyone.
This matchup is still extremely hard but we have to do what we can to try and give us the best chance to win. I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts here. Roc might not be for everyone but it has served me well in the times I'd have to play against either GR Monsters or GR Devotion.
I board the rocs in against the GR decks.
I went 3-1 tonight for 3rd
Rd 1 - Mono Red (2-0) W
Rd 2 - Abzan Control (0-2) L
Rd 3 - UB Thopters (2-1) W
Rd 4 - Jeskai Heroic (2-0) W
For reference here is my updated list as it was a few pages back -
4 Den Protector
4 Siege Rhino
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Abzan Charm
1 Bile Blight
1 Dromoka's Command
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Languish
4 Thoughtseize
2 Tragic Arrogance
2 Forest
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Plains
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Temple of Malady
3 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Windswept Heath
3 Arashin Cleric
2 Dromoka's Command
1 Duress
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Tragic Arrogance
2 Ultimate Price
3 Unravel the AEther
2 Wingmate Roc
The deck has been fantastic to me the last 4 FNM's going 13-3-1. Overall, I'm 25-14-2 with the deck. That's a 61% win rate and one that I'm happy about. The deck has been just the absolutely nuts when I need it to be and the manabase is perfect, I rarely if ever need to mulligan. I'd say I mulligan twice every 15-20 matches. I love everything about my take on the archetype.
Went 3-1 tonight for 3rd.
Rd 1 - Temur Burn(2-0) W
Rd 2 - UB Thopter Aggro (0-2) L
Rd 3 - Bant Heroic (2-0) W
Rd 4 - Atarka Red (2-0) W
Last 3 FNM's I am 10-2-1 with the deck.
Here is my updated list going forward -
4 Den Protector
4 Siege Rhino
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Abzan Charm
1 Bile Blight
1 Dromoka's Command
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Languish
4 Thoughtseize
2 Tragic Arrogance
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Forest
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Plains
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Temple of Malady
3 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Windswept Heath
3 Arashin Cleric
2 Dromoka's Command
3 Drown in Sorrow
1 Duress
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Tragic Arrogance
2 Ultimate Price
2 Wingmate Roc
Not much changed but I want to try a few different cards and see how they perform.
Not sure if I like the Nissa's right now, I just feel warping your mana to fit them in isn't where you want to be. I think adding in Tasigur and additional copies of Languish to the main might serve you better. I also think 2 Ultimate Price in the main could be something better. They aren't that great in the mirror and they are just okay against swarmy decks. This would be a good cut for the Languishes.