I don't think Domri Rade is a concern when you have enough fogs to keep you alive. Plus, Merciless eviction in her list seems to work around Domri's ultimate.
I agree burn doesn't really care about fogs, but most of the red decks these days aren't running a bunch of burn spells. Their just aren't enough to play a decent burn deck. Rather, red players are having to focus on pumping their creatures.
Kudos to Lynsey for her win.
You do realize that R/W Burn is a legitimate t1 deck right now that has won opens and top 8s all the time right..
The "for each planeswalker" wording still bugs me a bit. If Tabak says that you can play a planeswalker after activating The Chain Veil and use its ability twice, what is the difference from Kitsune Palliator which also doesn't change characteristics of any cards, but still only prevents damage to creatures that are around when its ability resolves?
I think because it does technically change the characteristics of the card by putting a "protection sheild" on it? That would be my guess but that is kind of confusing.
So i want to have a complete understanding of this.
From that ruling, This should be the following scenario that would occur:
Board state:
Player A has veil, Nissa, and Ral.
Nissa activates her +1 land animation, Ral Activates his -2 to bolt something.
Player A then taps 4 forest to use veil.
Player A can now activate +1 untap 4 forest, and use Ral to untap veil.
Player A taps 4 forest again to tap veil.
Player A can no longer use +1 untap 4 forest because Player A used the veil to activate Nissa's untap ability and instead, have the ability to reanimate a land again. While Ral is in the same occurrence, but he is able to bolt something assuming he has the loyalty to do so.
tldr; You cannot activate loyalty abilities that you have used under veil.
Is this the right scenario that i am thinking of when Tabak said you can activate a PW 3 times in a turn?
No, you can use the same ability you have already used.
Also, I just asked on twitter about playing a PW after using Chain Veil and using its ability twice, to which Tabak replied "sure"
Deck has been performing great against all of the top decks in testing, has pretty favorable game one matchups against everything except mono-red and has tools in the 75 to deal with everything. Was exceptionally good against Mono-Black variants, the matchup feels almost un-lose-able.
I don't love Fated Retribution but it's a nice out to RG monsters. 7 mana is just a lot and with 5 of my own planeswalkers theres a lot of times I don't really want to cast it. But at the same time those times I don't want to cast it I'm usually ahead so who cares what's in my hand.
Probably could play around with the SB a bit more too. Idk how good Revoke Existence is really gonna be, idk if I want 2. I like a Glare of Heresy still in case GW is still a thing to deal with Voice and is also a fine removal spell against the white weenie decks that'll show up.
I feel like we may be getting too comfortable with Azorius Charm. I think we may be sacrificing power, for safety. It is becoming more and more a card you simply must cycle, and I'm beginning to wonder if the deck would be better off just mainboarding 4 Last Breaths instead. You lose versatility, but become much better versus Mutavaults, Specters, and various other things. Last Breath may not be correct, but I think if the deck has room to change it'll be through Azorious Charms spot.
The charms are the definition of power for safety - the point of azorius charm is that it will always have a use in every game, which is why I like it main decked over last breath. I want as little dead cards as possible g1 against other control decks/the mirror.
Yeah, U/W control decks like his play a bit of a different game then the Elixir versions that most here are posting. With this deck it isn't about the inevitable win and more about Revelations and sticking win conditions so I like what he did with the last breaths and all the Elspeths. I think it's a fine list for people who aren't comfortable with Elixir.
Agreed. Personally I don't like the list very much, but if you want to run 3-4 win conditions THIS is what the list should look like.
The way I used it last season was to put pressure on domri after a verdict, or have a blocker for anything with haste. Eventually I would voltron up a fiendslayer paladin or Ætherling to put the game away quickly. The armor would be played along with needle and sphere. T2 domri w/ revelry back up is bad news bears regardless of what answer we have for domri. I liked it mainly because a few extra +1 activations were a lot easier to survive than an ultimate. I was also playing Esper w/ no angels/snapcaster so it was a lot easier to keep their side clear to get to domri. It's by no means tech that is going to make waves, just a thought I had while pooping.
hmmm thats definitely more interesting than I expected. It still seems a little slow and also unreliable at a one-of but it does seem pretty solid to have to kill their planeswalkers after you verdict.
I agree. I cut them; then after a few games, I put them right back in. They are just so helpful against so many difficult cards.
I think the deck wants 1 minimum- it's too much of a blowout not to at least have as an option. It gets even better if people don't expect you to play it, and they will use their mutavaults more aggressively and get blown out even more. I've been happy being back at 2 to get to use it more often.
Where is everyone right now on Quicken? I don't see it in as many UW decks on MTGO.
I started at 2, went down to 1, and am back up to 2. Honestly it's such a clutch card quickening verdict answers so many things that are tough for this deck and gives you such good blowouts. and at the worst it cantrips and is also great for leaving counter-magic open and still getting to use divinations.
Yeah, I don't really see how Platemail is good tech against Domri. It comes down to late to deal with a t2/t3 domri and after that a counterspell would just be better.
Hmm I have actually decided I will cut my mb negate and move it to the side, and move ratchet bomb main, as I expect a fair bit of aggro tomorrow.
As for the list with prognostic, I am not a fan. Encroaching wastes seem like a "waste" given that you are suggesting you will blow it up at some stage, and that's not really the way this deck is going to win, tapping 4 mana and saccing a land to blow up their..what, mutavault? Lol. And mutavault is one of your win conditions.
Prognostic Sphinx is in my opinion a horrible card. It activates their removal, since you have to throw away a card and also tap the sphinx when you hexproof it. It doesn't affect the board when it comes in. And it wins very slowly. Aetherling is much better, and there is no reason to have both in the deck. That is my opinion
I forget what your list looked like but I agree with that MB change -- good luck tomorrow, take some notes if you remember to. &I agree with your evaluations of encroaching wastes and Prognostic Sphinx
You do realize that R/W Burn is a legitimate t1 deck right now that has won opens and top 8s all the time right..
I think because it does technically change the characteristics of the card by putting a "protection sheild" on it? That would be my guess but that is kind of confusing.
Xenagos+ Ral Zarek + 4 creatures
No, you can use the same ability you have already used.
Also, I just asked on twitter about playing a PW after using Chain Veil and using its ability twice, to which Tabak replied "sure"
Yes, I've been playing a UWr Planar Cleansing list -- Top 4'd an IQ this past weekend with my list:
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 AEtherling
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Planar Cleansing
2 Divination
3 Azorius Charm
2 Izzet Charm
1 Quicken
1 Deicide
2 Last Breath
2 Warleader's Helix
1 Turn // Burn
1 Syncopate
4 Dissolve
4 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Island
3 Plains
2 Mutavault
4 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Temple of Epiphany
2 Last Breath
1 Magma Spray
1 Negate
3 Dispel
3 Counterflux
1 Turn // Burn
1 Deicide
2 Celestial Flare
1 Opportunity
Since then I've been tweaking my list a bit and have change it to this:
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Planar Cleansing
2 Divination
3 Azorius Charm
2 Izzet Charm
1 Quicken
1 Deicide
2 Last Breath
2 Warleader's Helix
1 Turn // Burn
4 Dissolve
4 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Island
3 Plains
2 Mutavault
4 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Temple of Epiphany
2 Pithing Needle
2 Last Breath
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Counterflux
1 Gainsay
1 Turn // Burn
1 Deicide
2 Celestial Flare
1 Jace, Memory Adept
Deck has been performing great against all of the top decks in testing, has pretty favorable game one matchups against everything except mono-red and has tools in the 75 to deal with everything. Was exceptionally good against Mono-Black variants, the matchup feels almost un-lose-able.
1 Quicken
4 Supreme Verdict
1 Fated Retribution
4 Divination
4 Azorius Charm
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Dissolve
2 Syncopate
4 Detention Sphere
1 Elixir of Immortality
7 Island
7 Plains
2 Mutavault
2 Azorius Guildgate
4 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Pithing Needle
1 Jace, Memory Adept
3 Last Breath
1 Negate
4 Gainsay
3 Celestial Flare
1 Revoke Existence
1 Glare of Heresy
I don't love Fated Retribution but it's a nice out to RG monsters. 7 mana is just a lot and with 5 of my own planeswalkers theres a lot of times I don't really want to cast it. But at the same time those times I don't want to cast it I'm usually ahead so who cares what's in my hand.
Probably could play around with the SB a bit more too. Idk how good Revoke Existence is really gonna be, idk if I want 2. I like a Glare of Heresy still in case GW is still a thing to deal with Voice and is also a fine removal spell against the white weenie decks that'll show up.
The charms are the definition of power for safety - the point of azorius charm is that it will always have a use in every game, which is why I like it main decked over last breath. I want as little dead cards as possible g1 against other control decks/the mirror.
Agreed. Personally I don't like the list very much, but if you want to run 3-4 win conditions THIS is what the list should look like.
Can you post your list, say which decks you lost to and maybe explain how some of the matches went?
hmmm thats definitely more interesting than I expected. It still seems a little slow and also unreliable at a one-of but it does seem pretty solid to have to kill their planeswalkers after you verdict.
I think the deck wants 1 minimum- it's too much of a blowout not to at least have as an option. It gets even better if people don't expect you to play it, and they will use their mutavaults more aggressively and get blown out even more. I've been happy being back at 2 to get to use it more often.
I started at 2, went down to 1, and am back up to 2. Honestly it's such a clutch card quickening verdict answers so many things that are tough for this deck and gives you such good blowouts. and at the worst it cantrips and is also great for leaving counter-magic open and still getting to use divinations.
I forget what your list looked like but I agree with that MB change -- good luck tomorrow, take some notes if you remember to. &I agree with your evaluations of encroaching wastes and Prognostic Sphinx