MTG Salvation

Quote from System_X

I would play it like this:

Turn 1: CIP tapped land
Turn 2: Counterspell/Bounce
Turn 3: Counterspell/Bounce
Turn 4: Merfolk + Counterspell
Turn 5: Merfolk + Counterspell

Generally decks with nothing but creatures lose, and badly. The creatures had better have darn good utility and curve somewhat well (or just be big and fast) if you aren't going to use other spells, Merfolk (in Llorwyn) is not that deck.

I mean look at it, by turn 6 you COULD have 3 merfolk on the board and start locking down lands with the lord while countering spells (ya know like wraths and pyroclasms).

I think that a merfolk deck rounded out with a few small and large faeries (the 4/4 champ) would make a more well rounded deck. I mean IF you get these guys on the board you get card drawing, protection counterspells, a mana short, etc., you can add more creatures and less spells. Then you are getting closer to a nice utility creature deck as mentioned prior

the problem with this approach is that as I've stated before, merrows don't have a decent one-drop, and all the merfolk that you really want to play cost 3 or more save for lord of atlantis maybe. It is really bad for an aggro deck if it has to start dropping guys (and 2/1 guys at best) on turn FOUR. While in casual that is quite alright (heck, I play 1/1 4-drops on casual games, and they survive), in constructed it doesn't cut it. And it is much easier for you to do the same kind of thing with faeries, but only better. Like this:

turn 1: play a 1CC faerie (there are two that are 1CC and are 1/1 flyers)
turn 2: either counter a spell, kill a guy, bounce something or drop a faerie eot
turn 3 onwards: repeat turn 2 over and over until opponent dies.

Faeries have everything going for them in constructed (decently costed beaters, lots of evasion, a shroud-granting lord for God's sake! not to mention flash and a Mana Short effect of sorts against control). The Faeries only nemesis is Desert, but even that can be solved (both Pithing needle and Rain of Tears will deal with it)

Merrow on the other hand have everthing going against them (overcosted creatures, not much to do with all the tap/untap, and no merfolk save Riptide pilferer that's much of a threat, almost no evasion built in, meaning that either you have one of those that grant islandwalk or you'll have a ton of 1/1 guys staring at a couple of 3/3's and cry in despair). Even though I believe that it is possible to make a good merfolk deck, I don't think that such a deck will use lorwyn's way, and rather just be a u/w aggro deck, with no shenanigans about tapping/untapping stuff. For example:



the idea here is that since we don't have any 1-drops, the spells will have to fill in, either the counter to gain back some tempo, or the card selection. Snapback and rune snag round up, and rune snag could easily have been any other counterspell (even Familiar's Ruse) it just happens to be my personal preference. ah, and no tap/untap shenanigans, just your average aggro deck. You may also take out mana tithe and add summon the school, but the deck would slow down a little, with only 4 cards to show for in the first turn. But that's how I see it anyway, lets keep discussing cause I may have overlooked something

I think merrows are a great tribe for casual. for constructed... not so much.

The only way I can envision a merfolk deck being good is in extended, with the good old opposition. In that deck, you would no longer need static orb and could easiliy replace them for the enchantment that untaps merfolks, the lord that taps/untaps stuff and things like that.

The problem I see with the merfolk in standard is that there are no useful merfolks costing 1 mana and that just orients the deck towards midrange, but its kinda hard to make a good mirdange deck with creatures that cost 4 mana and are 2/2. With no other way to affect the board (i.e., no Opposition or similar effect) the merrow feels like this:

<after the first turn doing nothing, because there are no 1cc merfolk that are playable>:
you: tap out, play a 2/2 merfolk
opp: ok, draw, kill it, go
you: tap out, play a 1/1 merfolk
opp: ok, draw, kill it, go
you: tap out, play a 1/1 and a 2/2 merfolk
opp: ok, draw, <insert favorite board sweeper here>, go
you:

I mean, they all cost (the really good ones save for Silvergill adept) 3 or more mana to play, and how can you expect to stop your opponets from playing a 5/5 guy that you obviously have no way to deal with? with a 4CC counterspell? Those guys needed flash to be constructed quality (like the faeries) and they needed a reason to tap for. If you tap/untap merrow 30x per turn but for no reason other than, idk, changing a land type (that you control, for that matter), you're not exactly in a gaining position. In extended at least theres opposition to give you a reason to tap guys other than beating face.

Quote from Seeker after Chaos

Well, by the time you hit four* lands you probably want something more than a land that makes one mana. Before four lands, you want your lands to tap for mana. It's the same reason no one plays Temple of the False God, as they are the same card on 5 except that Coffers needs 'em all to be swamps but makes B in return.


*Coffers+4 swamps = tap three land to make four mana. At four it's break even and therefore counts as a normal land in that it "taps" for 1.

Unless there's a urborg, tomb of yawgmoth involved, in that case the coffers break even at 3 mana and start accelerating from 4 lands onward. While that doesn't happen (getting the insane and impossbile amount of 4 lands in play), Duress, Cabal Therapy, Smother, Chainer's Edict and the like are your friends to deal with both aggro and control.

on topic:

yes the coffers are good. I never owned any 'cause they're expensive around here (at least they go for more than i'm willing to pay for) and having coffers for FNM promos is just very, very exciting.

Quote from lossy

My biggest concern is the sacrificing of permanents. For it to be effective it has to come out early, dramatically reducing counters on ravager or p/t of cranial plating.

My thinking was it provides an outlet against, shattering spree, etc.
I suppose the same could be done with ravager, sac everything to ravager, sac ravager to itself and move the counters to hoverguard.

I'm sure sacrificing the board for Gargadon, with *** on the board just sweeps Gargadon as well.

I was under the impression that it's not possible to put modular counters on a non-artifact creature.
I have a more pressing question: can this deck even survive in the wake of the reprinting of both Shattering Spree and Hurkyl's Recall? or affinity is dead on the water before the rotation even happened?

Quote from urzassedatives

People forget that Coldsnap stays in standard until next October.
In the meantime, we have FIVE sets (including the new base that replaces TS block and CS) to make up for the cards in it.
Coldsnap has Rite of Flame and Rune Snag.
We also need to remember that standard is going to be an entirely different animal when Lorwyn comes out...and many of the missing 'staples' from 9th or RAV will find new iterations.

And still I miss some fast mana on Xth. Not because I play it (nor is it because I will miss Seething Song) but solely because it's one of red's mechanics (and a significant one at that) so I think its just weird that a core set don't show it (I see it like a core set without blue bounce, or white taxing effects or green land destruction, which are minor themes in those colors - like fast mana on red - all shown in Xth). I know red isn't about fast mana, but it's one of it's aspects and the core should have at least one card showcasing it.

But it's not the end of the world, and Xth accomplishes IMHO the same that 9th did: it's impressive, has a sufficient "WOW" factor and still feels like core always have.

who cares about Stone Rain? Rain of Tears is back! I guess that's reason enough to keep Stone Rain out of Xth. They would not be able to bring Rain of Tears back along with it (with all the crap about 3 viable and good LD costing 3 in standard and such, even though we have Smallpox and Boom//Bust which cost even less than 3)

Still speaking of LD, I'm glad they took out Annex. Land denial should be a red/black/green theme (in that order of importance), not a blue one.

Overall, I agree that Xth is at the same power level than 9th, and I'm glad they didn't take out those hard to get portal cards (namely Tidings and Cruel Edict) and I hope they become staples in the years to come. I just regret the absolute lack of fast mana in red. I didn't even wanted Seething Song, but hey, at least ONE fast mana card? it would not hurt to bring back even Brightstone Ritual.

Quote from daivos

Storage lands are mana abilities. So, no, the Needle won't hurt those.

Uh.. I guess he meant the ability to actually PUT a counter on the storage land, not taking them out for mana.

on topic:

yay needle! More good tools for everyone! I've always liked needle, but playsets were expensive (of course, being one of the very few useful cards from SoK). I hope the price gets down a little.

Aggro decks look good now, they've lost speed from drops (no Ape, no Lions) but gained power in their spells (incinerate, terror anyone?). Hopefully this means that second tier aggro decks can show up and play (IE, aggro decks that don't include W or R/G and were always outclassed by those superior 1-drops, like rakdos, dimir and pure simic aggro)

... and yet I wonder. We have Recover which is a cantrip Raise Dead but we can't have Repulse? why is that?

wow. just wow.


If this is true, welcome back, Braids, Cabal Minion. Meet your new friends: Kher Keep and Dakmoor Salvage (by the way, they're both lands)

she may be a 2/2 for 2BB, but with any of those two lands above she can create a soft lock on your opponent while you can keep beating for two until they die or get rid of her (and if/when do, you'll probably have another copy waiting anyways). I've always liked Braids and I think she could be very playable in standard, we have the tools to create a decent deck with her at least.

Quote from PrideOfTheClouds

Don't forget Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace.

Of course! How could I forget the discard land? I guess -1 mountain would not be so much troublesome, I've already played some matches and drew more red-only sources than I would have liked to. I'll try that.

I think that a red/black version could be good (maybe not so good as green) because you could use cards that benefit from a almost empty hand (Magus of the Scroll comes to mind, as does Keldon Megaliths, and Gathan Raiders which is great against aggro) combined with much more brutal discard spells (Delirium Skeins anyone? also Rise//Fall seems like a great choice)

Wrapping up, I will test something like this and try to post some results later. my initial build would be like:

Quote from CX316

You make a lot of assumptions here:
Pithing Needle - They didn't not reprint Mage because he would be too powerful, they stated the reason Mage and Crystaline Sliver got cut was because "they would be exactly the same in T2 now as they were back then". Needle would be great and is pretty simple... I just don't see them putting Needle, Wrath and Birds in the same set they never seem to have 3 chase rares in the same core set :P...

Actually, the Mage hasn't been reprinted because alongside Remand it would have been another insanely efficient suspend-hoser, and they thought it was a bad idea to have the hallmark mechanic from Time Spiral to be hosed by two über-efficient cards, in other words, they wanted to give suspend a minimal chance in constructed, and the Mage + Remand would not made it possible.

on topic:

I'm thinking Pithing Needle or Armageddon are the most likely to be reprinted. Let's go one-by-one:

Pithing Needle - A very good hoser, but fair. simple enough to core for being a rare with very few ruling issues (you know what an activated ability is? so you know how needle works)
Arcbound Ravager - block mechanic, plus it would be very very lame to see it return just to be a dud "that once were banned in standard"
Armageddon - No lions, plus being a fan favorite (and many many many ppl asking all the time "when will geddon come back?", I don't see any better time to geddon to come back than this. Unless of course, they have chosen no to print lions to give Isamaru a shot at the core set.
Read the Runes - Very very meh. if I remind it correctly, never really saw much play, and isn't a particular hit among players. Not really the "jaw-dropping" type of card.
Nantuko Shade - Another fan favorite, I would have to say no because of stuff such as Urborg, Tomb of yawgmoth. Also, it's one of the best 2-drops EVER. quite unlikely.
Reiver Demon - Pretty lame if you ask me, as there're plenty of other fattys which outclass this boy simply because they can be zombified and still do all the things they do.
Anger - It was a no for time spiral because of hellbent in DIS (the self discard spells made it too good, said wizards). I wondered for a minute if they will give it a chance just to see if they were wrong in the brief time that Xth will play with Rav block? the answer, probably is not.
Goblin Warchief - with Piledriver/Fanatic/Empty the Warrens? Sure thing! why not also reprint matron, ringleader, siege-gang commander and lackey while you're at it? ah, and let's not forget aether vial. NEXT!
Terravore - I honestly could see this one coming, but my personal preferences lies with Geddon and/or needle.
Tooth and Nail - block mechanics make this a hard one, and as someone said, they took out Healing Salve for being modal for crying out loud! why would TaN make the cut?

Quote from Azalon

Exactly, this deck needs some serious help against Blood Moon and the Vore...and I can't really think of anything to help!

peace

I'm not having much trouble against Blood Moon as everyone around here plays Magus of the Moon which is really laughable to this deck (I mean, signet mana does the trick until I can get rid of a 2/2). But if you guys are having problems, may I suggest Repeal? It's a cantrip, and it's easily played with signet mana (and in that case you should play dimir signet x4 and rakdos x2). As for detritivore, I can't think of anything right now, but I'll check gatherer and edit my post later.

Quote from Venser

Molten Disaster? That hurts you more than it hurts them. By a lot. Also, Graven Cairns doesn't give you turn one mana fixing. Here's what I'd do:

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Land (21) 4 Blood Crypt 4 Sulfurous Springs 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 6 Mountain 5 Swamp Creatures (23) 4 Shadow Guildmage 4 Scorched Rusalka 3 Rakdos Guildmage 4 Sangrophage 4 Dark Confidant 4 Sulfur Elemental 4 Giant Solifuge	Other spells (12) 4 Rift Bolt 4 Volcanic Hammer 4 Char	Sideboard 2 Hit // Run 4 Shadow of Doubt 2 Persecute 4 Yixlid Jailer 3 Blood Moon

this deck looks solid, but it's missing 4 cards (21 + 23 + 12 = 56) and I second that about sangrophage. Maybe you should play Stromgald Crusader, or Blood Knight or maybe both

I've playtesting a deck similar to this one ever since FS came out. Some time ago I saw a really good list @ starcity and modified mine from that one. Here's where I ended up so far:



IMHO, the transmute toolbox should be good against control, but very very bad against everything else. See, this deck is already slow as a slug, and if you give your opponent free turns while you transmute, that may cost you the game. I do like the way that the deck can be filled with 1-ofs to be fetched, but the transmute isn't just fast enough, at least for me.