I am running Chalice in the maindeck right now, so Welder is out of question for me. I think I'll be trying this list after this weekend.
(nameless_one) what is your reason for not running Blightsteel Colossus? Is the deck so Welder based that the deck just always wins with traditional damage?
Might seem like a plan, as it could get around Wasteland. My only concern would be the other lands you would be cutting. What does your land suite look like, Alex?
Zac, the pilot of the 75, posted on The Source and said that Chaos Warp was thrown into the sideboard as a last minute filler; he was lacking cards in his sideboard. I believe the singleton inclusion had no intended application.
Chaos Warp requires the owner to shuffle the library first, so it doesn't work with Top. Even if it did work, you're Warping one of your permanents for another, which is 2-for-1-ing yourself.
If you're looking for removal the deck already has access to Duplicant to answer creatures and Spine to answer virtually anything, which are both tutorable and Metalworker fodder. As for any other non-artifact removal cards, I have seen Karn Liberated as a one or two-of. I don't think the deck needs too much removal to start with, as the deck's creatures outclass the other ones played in legacy.
We can go rock-paper-scissors all day with stuff like Chalice/StP/Wurmcoil, but at the end of the day, we want results. Without results, card choices become mere opinions, and some of those opinions can be misleading. Also, it's hard to justify an inclusion or an exclusion of a card just by saying "it dies to StP" or "it combo's with card x" or "but it just gets Forced". If you think your idea works, sleeve it up and test it against many decks many times. Until you've done that, saying a card fits into a deck has no value. Welder's working out in your meta? Great. Chalice is the better choice? Just as good. Heck, splashing green for Tarmogoyf? If its tested and has positive results, by all means go for it.
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I just thought I'd throw this out there. Let's keep this thread focused, efficient and informative, for the sake of any newcomers to the thread as well as the regulars.
It's hard for me to accept opinions if you don't have results to back them up. A brief flowchart is barely any evidence.
I hope this isn't marked for spam. I really just want this thread to contain honest questions and honest results.
There's a lot of word going around that Memphis consisted of underprepared players and less than optimal deck lists. Zac's card choices should be taken with a grain of salt.
With Forgemaster functioning as a Tinker toolbox, I like to give myself as many options as possible. I obviously won't fetch a BSC to soft lock someone out. Neither would I fetch Sundering Titan if I have an open shot for an immediate victory. Speaking from experience, the wins a tutored and Greaved BSC outweighs the times I've had the dead draw negatively affect me.
I haven't looked if there was one yet, but I would like to see a tournament report. Here are some of my opinions though:
-Hall looks very interesting. With Welder out, why bother have a 3-life-costing land? I don't know if it can help cast Welder either. STP and PTE are the worry cards.
-Blood Moon for non-basic hate + fight Null Rod?
-But in general, there seem to be a lot of weird card choices and numbers, a majority I am hesitant to agree with.
-There was only 90 people there, which is relatively small for a SCGO. When interpreting this deck list, I would use some caution.
What do you guys think of running Blightsteel as a Forgemaster target? Seems badass
Because it is. You can either combo off on turn two or sneak out an awesome comeback victory with it. When I took him out I regretted so badly. Some people disagree, but I definitely think it's an auto include.
A pro of that would be that it gives the opponent a lot to protect himself against. A Needle or Revoker would have multiple targets, and that we can play around (Forgemaster, Metalworker, Monolith, Grindstone.) Another plus would be the possible inclusion of an Elemental Blast, since any sort of colored MUD is red or blue anyway.
However there are multiple problems. It would be terrible to get stuck with combo pieces that don't work with each other (Metalworker+Grindstone? Staff+Painter?). Traditional Painter lists run Brainstorm, Intuition, and Imperial Recruiter, whereas we only have 4x Forgemaster. To make room for the combo, the deck would probably have to ditch the aggro plan, which makes our ability to succeed much more narrow. This is not to mention, that with the ability to tutor with Forgemaster, you should be on your way to victory.
If you have another idea, post it up and let's discuss!
Precursors: Makes sense. Maybe another time, another deck.
Clone Shell: Perhaps you can combine Clone Shell with higher Wurmcoil and Myr Battlesphere counts. Weld away a token, get back a robot or another Shell. Add a singleton Scarecrone as a tutor target for Forgemaster and you can start doing some pretty absurd things. Too bad Tempered Steel is 1WW...
(nameless_one) what is your reason for not running Blightsteel Colossus? Is the deck so Welder based that the deck just always wins with traditional damage?
If you're looking for removal the deck already has access to Duplicant to answer creatures and Spine to answer virtually anything, which are both tutorable and Metalworker fodder. As for any other non-artifact removal cards, I have seen Karn Liberated as a one or two-of. I don't think the deck needs too much removal to start with, as the deck's creatures outclass the other ones played in legacy.
It's hard for me to accept opinions if you don't have results to back them up. A brief flowchart is barely any evidence.
I hope this isn't marked for spam. I really just want this thread to contain honest questions and honest results.
With Forgemaster functioning as a Tinker toolbox, I like to give myself as many options as possible. I obviously won't fetch a BSC to soft lock someone out. Neither would I fetch Sundering Titan if I have an open shot for an immediate victory. Speaking from experience, the wins a tutored and Greaved BSC outweighs the times I've had the dead draw negatively affect me.
Okay, thanks for the correction.
In that case, the inclusion for the Moon is beyond me.
I think Zac's list had one.
It's an 11/11 infect. They'll have to deal with it. Your Knight is a 9/9? Two 4/5 Goyfs on the board? BSC doesn't care. Honey BSC is hungry.
I haven't looked if there was one yet, but I would like to see a tournament report. Here are some of my opinions though:
-Hall looks very interesting. With Welder out, why bother have a 3-life-costing land? I don't know if it can help cast Welder either. STP and PTE are the worry cards.
-Blood Moon for non-basic hate + fight Null Rod?
-But in general, there seem to be a lot of weird card choices and numbers, a majority I am hesitant to agree with.
-There was only 90 people there, which is relatively small for a SCGO. When interpreting this deck list, I would use some caution.
Because it is. You can either combo off on turn two or sneak out an awesome comeback victory with it. When I took him out I regretted so badly. Some people disagree, but I definitely think it's an auto include.
However there are multiple problems. It would be terrible to get stuck with combo pieces that don't work with each other (Metalworker+Grindstone? Staff+Painter?). Traditional Painter lists run Brainstorm, Intuition, and Imperial Recruiter, whereas we only have 4x Forgemaster. To make room for the combo, the deck would probably have to ditch the aggro plan, which makes our ability to succeed much more narrow. This is not to mention, that with the ability to tutor with Forgemaster, you should be on your way to victory.
If you have another idea, post it up and let's discuss!
Clone Shell: Perhaps you can combine Clone Shell with higher Wurmcoil and Myr Battlesphere counts. Weld away a token, get back a robot or another Shell. Add a singleton Scarecrone as a tutor target for Forgemaster and you can start doing some pretty absurd things. Too bad Tempered Steel is 1WW...