MTG Salvation

Username: Lactone
Platform: Cockatrice
Time: After 8 PM (Eastern)

Quote from Ben Delat

Thx man - I do have an Ambition in the SB - I did take out one vengeance, as I usually do against aggro decks, this is why it took awhile to come - If I had drawn a single trading post, we would have got there much sooner - Ambition is really for the control match up where you need diversity in win cons

I couldn't agree more about the Ambition. It has been the spiciest of the 1 ofs in my SB, and in my overall 75 as well. I love the card, and flashing it back has always resulted in a win for me =]

I have added a super spicy new number to my maindeck, Staff of Nin. It was originally a 1 of, but it was such a powerhouse vs. Delver, that I made it a 2 of, and I haven't regretted it one bit. I cut 1 Solemn, and something else that I can't seem to recall atm for it...But the card advantage this bad boy provides is absolutely astonishing. The games with this deck almost always go long, and this card is not hard to get out on the field, especially with Liliana helping us hit those land drops.

I did a local tournament on Tuesday with my Black Market, and unfortunately wound up 2-2. My deck really pooped on me and didn't give me the land I needed to operate on the 2 matches I lost....one match I had to mull to FOUR game 1, and then mull to five game 2....so I really feel like the variance just caught up with me that night =/

I'll post a full updated decklist later today, feeling lazy right now =/

Quote from kensanity

I actually like Lactone's list better overall. Liliana is not as good as Sorin but i think it runs in this engine better. consume spirit is much more versatile than sorin's vengeance (can hit planeswalkers and creatures) and lactone's package really is recurring a lot of wurmcoils anyway. What im worried about is that the list isn't diverse enough., Against Mono black, i'm sure to face surgical extraction. To lose wurmcoils would be devastating.

Anyway, yeah thats my new list for tomorrow.

Losing Wurmcoils to a Surgical can be quite devastating, but I have other threats in the deck, and even more in the SB that come in for the control mirror. If I lose Wurmcoil, I still have Batterskull (which is VERY hard for MBC to deal with), 2x Karn, Mimic Vat (another diverse threat that is VERY hard to deal with), and a Liliana Emblem infused Consume Spirit is not uncommon in control mirrors =]

Glad you like the deck, and I hope it treats you as well as it has been treating me!

I am taking the deck to SCG Open Series: Washington DC tomorrow, and I am hoping to do very well with my Black Market! I will be playing Goblins in Legacy on Sunday, so you can cheer me and my little green men on also!

Quote from kensanity

How often do you find yourself siding 6+ cards? Im thinking about aggressive matches with no graveyard recursion where nihil spellbomb and duress arent that effective. do you ever find yourself siding out these 1 drops for higher cmc drops like karn and spine? Or is utter always prudent tokeep a critical mass of specific cards un the main regardless of matchup ?

I agree with your thoughts on despise. it is a very strong opening hand card. in a standard format full of creatures that give added value, it ignores those properties.

I feel thAt the main board should be able to.handle as many decks as possible but also should destroy aggro or midrange. despise goes a long way in ensuring that. personally i would run 3 despise mb and find room jn the sideboard for a full set of duress in this trading post list. i haven't tested 30 hours of games with this so i could be wrong. but i dint think i am. the list as you currently have it is very tight. don't know where id make changes.

I will try 3x MD Despise over the Duress for this week's FNM, and move the 3x Duress to the SB....the reason I like having Duress AND Distress, is that gives me 6x Discard Spells to hit the cards that matter in the Control matchup, like Miracles, Planeswalkers, and Removal. The creature matchup for my deck is already so skewed towards me, that I really don't think I need any extra help via Despise. I appreciate your input though, and I will give it 1 more attempt with this list and let you know how it goes.


I side in 6+ cards quite frequently, but that is only vs non aggro decks. Vs the aggro decks, I am usually just going -3 Duress, +2 Black Sun, +1 Grave Titan. Versus Pod Decks, I additionally go -2x Consume Spirit, -1x Liliana -2x Nihil Spellbomb and go +3x Grafdigger's Cage, +1x Karn, +1x Spine. It is important to have answers to a Birthing Pod on the table, and the Pod games go long anyways, so Karn and Spine are completely realistic.

Quote from kensanity

So u put the grave Titan in your sb, swapped curse with ratchet bomb? That's it? So ur mb is 60 now

The MD Has 1x Grave Titan in it also. It is still 61.

Quote from kensanity

Could you go over your sideboard in detail? like what matchups you bring them in and what you side out? I'm typically concerned with pod and its variants, zombies, white tokens or white weenie with crusade effects, delver, and control matchups.

Also, whats up with the singleton mimic vat, no despise in the 75 and an increasing ambition in the sb?

much better than that one black market list running lili of the veil. while i like the viel lili, big lili seems very powerful in this archetype. will test. I'm sure ill have questions about things for gameday this weekend, i'll be sure to address sideboard questions later

First of all, I tweaked my sideboard slightly after playtesting tonight. Basically, I took out the Ratchet Bombs for Curse of Death's Hold. The cards basically do the same thing, but Curse is better in more matchups. Ratchet Bomb is too slow to take out enchantments and artifacts, and I can use Spine/Karn to take out problematic non-creature cards.

The singleton Mimic Vat has been nothing but awesome for me. It is a really good card against decks where lots of things are going to be going to the graveyard. It provides a different angle of attack as well, and is basically the best trump card available in a mono black mirror match, since black has trouble taking out artifacts (short of Karn or Spine, the latter of which no one except probably me runs lol) To reiterate, Mimic Vat is just a really versatile card that has a variety of uses in multiple matchups, but it isn't something I want to ever see more than one of in a single game, hence the miser's copy.

The Increasing Ambition will be discussed below.

Liliana of the Veil is straight up garbage in this deck. You do not want to be discarding cards from your hand. The only value you get out of discarding stuff, is the fact that you can bring it back later with a Trading Post if need be, but even then, it isn't nearly as much value as other decks get out of her such as Solar Flare or Zombies. The new Liliana is just awesome here. She allows us to hit all of our land drops, thinning our deck of lands. She is also capable of pumping our Wurmcoils to huge monsters, providing drastically large life swings. Worst case scenario, she is a 4 mana sorcery speed removal spell (which I know is really bad, but I had to do it more than once when it was my only out, and I was in a really bad spot. Finally, I honestly win ~30-40% of my game 1s by getting an emblem, and casting a 30+ damage Consume Spirit (and yes, it feels as awesome as you are imagining =] )

The lack of Despise is simple, the card just straight up is not good. Distress is just straight up better in every way. If you are complaining that the card costs 2 mana, you are argument is about to be easily destroyed. Worst case scenario, you are on the draw, and you cast distress on your 2nd turn after your opponent has had 2 turns. Is there really anything that you would want to take out of his hand that he could have cast on turn 1 or turn 2 that you could't have just taken with Distress? I don't know about you all, but I usually like to take the largest threat in their hand, or the card that I can't deal with. The ONLY card that can be argued for taking with Despise that you can't take with Distress if you are on the draw, is the new Ajani. This guy is played in only a handful of archetypes, all of which are complete and total jokes of a matchup for us. Even then, he isn't a staple of the archetypes he could possibly be found in, making him a rarity.

I will write out what archetypes each card is there for, what to take out is usually pretty obvious, but it also varies slightly from build to build, and varies on the play/draw sometimes also...but I will try and be as detailed as possible.

SIDEBOARD:
1x Duress - Delver, Control
1x Increasing Ambition - Control
3x Grafdigger's Cage - Birthing Pod, Zombies
2x Distress - Control, Delver, Wolf Run
2x Curse of Death's Hold - Lingering Souls, Inkmoth Nexus, Zombies
1x Mimic Vat - Control, Birthing Pod, Wolf Run
1x Grave Titan - Aggressive Decks
1x Karn Liberated - Any time you think the game will go long
1x Spine of Ish Sah - Same as Karn
2x Black Sun Zenith - Aggressive Decks

Versus decks that are NON Aggressive, I usually take out 1-2x Mutilates. I never take out the full set of 4, unless it is against a Pure Control deck or an esper Planeswalker based control deck (leave in 2x Mutilate if they run Lingering souls, although watch during game 2, because they might side out their Lingering souls.....in which case you bring out all your mutilates for game 3....Curse > Mutilate against Lingering Souls in general though)

Karn, Spine of Ish Sah are there for matchups that are going to go long, into the late game. Recurring a Spine of Ish Sah for 8 mana per turn with a Trading Post is backbreaking, and usually means game over. Birthing Pod Decks usually go into the late game, but you can win very quickly if you hit sweeper into a turn 5/6 Wurmcoil Engine, and they don't have an answer for it.

Increasing Ambition - this one is usually good where Karn and Spine are, This is is the board almost strictly for Control decks, but feel free to bring it in in any game that goes into the late, late game. The card advantage provided by this singleton is pretty nuts. Let's say you tutor for something you think is awesome, then it gets answered by your opponent.....You get to flash it back and actually cast even just ONE of the two spells you tutored for, you should win that game. At first glance, I thought this card was complete garbage, but after my playtest friend who loves the card talked to me about it, and convinced me to try it out in my SB (he plays 2x in his Black Market), I fell in love with how good it is in the late, late game.

Duress/Distress are there for when you need more discard. Since the format contains soooo many aggressive decks with 25-30 creatures, I could not justify playing the full set of 4 Duress in the MD. Duress is the first card to sideboard OUT against the aggressive decks, while Grave Titan and Black Suns are the first cards to side IN against aggressive decks.

Curse of Death's Hold - This is the #1 card vs. Inkmoth Nexus decks, UG Poison, and Lingering Souls decks. It is also VERY strong vs. Zombies (I used to play UB Zombies, and RB Zombies, and I HATED seeing this card hit the table, 2 of them on the table at once would cause me to insta scoop)

Mimic Vat - Discussed in detail above.

Black Sun Zenith and Grave Titan - These guys are here for the aggressive decks in the format. A lot of the time, my opponent casts a huge threat of a spell that I don't know how to deal with. Grave Titan is usually an awesome answer. He is capable of taking out Planeswalkers quickly with his friends, he is an awesome army of blockers, and he can straight up end the game super fast after a well timed Mutilate. Black Sun is there for extra assurance that the aggro decks will be almost a bye for us.

Grafdigger's Cage - This is the best card available against Birthing Pod decks, which other than a true control deck, can be one of the harder matchups. This isn't to say that Pod matchups are unfavorable, because I have beat multiple Pod decks with ease. The way I usually beat them is simply 3 words. Infinite Wurmcoil Engines. Regardless, Cage 100% shuts down Birthing Pod, making it so the opponent can't even activate it, making his deck a really bad midrange deck that doesn't fully operate.

Quote from Dr. Bjørn

How does skill come into piloting this deck? Easy to Pilot?
What advice/tips would you give to say, someone taking this into their Fnm for the first time, no testing, fresh pilot?

This is a fairly skill intensive deck, and it doesn't just operate itself like some of the other decks in the format. The best advice I would give to someone playing it for the first time is to be patient. Don't try and rush out a threat, only to have it killed and then you get killed. Always make the safest play, not the most threatening play. Our deck has a better late game than any other deck in the format, even Solar Flare. Yes, that is right folks. This deck has a better late game than Solar Flare. The card advantage provided by Trading Post is absolutely unprecedented. No other card comes close to drawing you as many cards, and recurring as many artifacts as this bad boy does.

Another very important thing to keep in mind is the 4 drop slot. There are LOTS of 4 drops in this deck, and knowing which one to play in which situations is one of the most important aspects to success. I usually take at least 60-90 seconds once I hit 4 mana, to ensure that I make the correct decision on my 4 drop. Sometimes it is very simple, you just Mutilate. This is the most frequently used 4 drop, especially in this format, where the majority of the decks are 25-30x creatures.dec.....The choice usually comes down to Liliana vs. Solemn vs. Trading Post. I almost never drop a Trading Post on turn 4, unless it is against a blue deck and they are tapped out, so I know it won't get counterspelled. I would much rather drop a Post on Turn 5 to ensure an activation out of it, in case it gets hit with removal. Solemn vs. Liliana can be tough. Here is a general rule of thumb: If there is a threat on the table, but not enough to warrant a mutilate, I drop Solemn. If the board is clear of creatures, I drop Liliana. If I am staring down 2 open blue mana against a Mana Leak deck, I usually play the Solemn. If you don't have a Mutilate, but you are wishing you did, cast the Liliana to save yourself some bleeding. People will almost always attack into a Planeswalker, no matter what (which is often incorrect, but that is irrelevant here). If you have a Solemn and a Wurmcoil and a Swamp in hand, and can cast the turn 4 Solemn, and not die the following turn, ALWAYS cast the Solemn if you know you can cast a turn 5 Wurmcoil. This is the best thing this deck can be doing on turn 5. Wurmcoil Engine's lifelink is how this deck stays so far ahead of all of the aggressive decks of the format.

I hope this helped =/

Quote from Dr. Bjørn

I will start testing out your list. Adding to primer.

Thank you very much =] Deck is called "Black Market" Please add that to Primer. And my total record in games with the deck (in a tournament setting) is 40-3-1. In playtesting, it has a 78% game 1 win percentage, and a 91% match win percentage (overall against a playtest field of 6 decks: Naya Aggro, UW Delver, RG Aggro, RG Wolf Run Ramp, Esper Control, Wg Humans)

Dr. Bjørn -

I always play 61 cards. I know this is "incorrect" or whatever you want to term it, but it is just a personal flavor thing I have always done. No point in anyone arguing with me about it, because you will not win, nor will I. So it is basically a moot point. Not that big of a difference in statistics, and I like being able to play an extra card.

New Liliana has been nothing short of stellar for me. She ensures I hit all my land drops, she soaks up damage for me in the mid game, and in the case that I can get to emblem (which happens more often than you would think) I get to cast a consume spirit for 30+. A lot of decks think Liliana's utlimate is useless, but this deck is SUPER mana hungry, so when I get it, even without a consume spirit, I get an absurd advantage that puts me WAY ahead. She can also -3 Pump a Wurmcoil for huge life swings, or put my thread out of Mutilate range. Worst case scenario she is a really bad 4 mana sorcery kill spell (I have had to do this, but only a couple times when I was really in a bind)

Consume Spirit has the obvious use of being a finisher when combined with Liliana, and it is a great way for Mono Black to kill Planeswalkers, or catch up on life when behind against mid range decks.

EDIT: Forgot to talk about Nihil Spellbomb. This slot used to be 3x Vampire Nighthawk, and at that time I did not have 2x Black Sun in the sideboard, they were Sorin Markov's (as another threat against Esper Control and Mid Range decks), but I found that the super fast Human decks were capable of Turn 4ing me, so I wanted to make sure I drew a sweeper every single game against them, so I added in the BSZs. The Nighthawks were very rarely good, and not nearly as good as Black Sun's, and there just wasn't room, or need for both. So, after cutting the Nighthawks, I added the Spellbombs (which used to also be SB, and were replaced by Cages). Spellbomb is honestly good against the MAJORITY of the decks in the format. It takes care of undying creatures, makes Snapcaster Mages useless, takes dumps on Frites and other reanimation strategies. Worst case scenario, it is a cantrip that helps you hit your land drops, and allows us to run 24 instead of 25 lands.

I will be happy to answer any and every further question anyone has. Like I said, I know this deck inside and out, and am behind it 100%. 5x undefeated tournaments (albeit only locals and MTGO dailys) is nothing to dismiss, and I think this is hands down, the best possible meta choice deck in this format.

I have been playing and testing a deck that I call "Black Market" since the release of M13. I have gone undefeated in 5x small tournaments now (3x Locals, and 2x MTGO Daily events). The deck is absurdly consistent, and insanely good against the current meta. I am taking it to SCG: DC this weekend for the Standard Open, and I plan on doing very well, I will report after the tournament. Here is my current list, which has undergone many iterations, and I have literally tried almost every card imaginable in the deck, and every combination of cards. This is by far, the most consistent, and resilient version of the deck that I have tested (and I can almost guarantee I have tested this deck more than anyone in this thread, as I am currently unemployed, and my friend and I playtest 5-6+ hours a day on cockatrice, tuning this to beat every Tier 1 deck in today's meta).


3x Duress
4x Mutilate
2x Consume Spirit

2x Tragic Slip
3x Go for the Throat
1x Dismember

3x Wurmcoil Engine
3x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Grave Titan

3x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Trading Post
1x Batterskull
4x Ichor Wellspring

3x Liliana of the Dark Realm
1x Karn Liberated

1x Phyrexia's Core
2x Buried Ruin
2x Ghost Quarter
19x Swamp

SIDEBOARD:
1x Duress
1x Increasing Ambition
3x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Distress
3x Ratchet BOmb
1x Mimic Vat
1x Karn Liberated
1x Spine of Ish Sah
2x Black Sun Zenith


I am not going to go into every single card choice and reasoning, but if you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask. If you want to run something different, that absolutely DOMINATES the current meta, give my list a whirl. You won't regret it.

Quote from FoodChainGoblins

Here's what I plan on running this FNM. My meta has about 40 players usually, with many different types of decks. I'd say it's 15% Delver, 5% UR Delver, 10% Wolf Run, 5% Pod, 5% Naya, 10% RDW, 10% Control, and the rest some other decks. There's almost no Zombie decks (that do well).

Although there are not many Esper Control lists, the deck scares me.

SeachromeCoast.decMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands 4 Seachrome Coast 4 Glacial Fortress 3 Moorland Haunt 9 Island 2 Plains Creatures 4 Delver of Secrets 4 Snapcaster Mage 4 Geist of Saint Traft 3 Restoration Angel	Spells/Swords 3 Gitaxian Probe 2 Gut Shot 4 Ponder 2 Thought Scour 4 Vapor Snag 4 Mana Leak 2 Dismember 2 Sword of War and Peace	Sideboard 3 Timely Reinforcements 2 Phantasmal Image 2 Ratchet Bomb 2 Divine Offering 2 Surgical Extraction 3 Mental Misstep 1 Celestial Purge

What do you suggest?

I like your sideboard for the most part. I think that Mental Misstep is one of the best cards available for the Delver mirror. It is also a great card against any deck running 8+ 1 drops. I think that 3 copies however is too many, and you should go down to 2x, allowing you to run 2 copies of Celestial Purge, which is great against Naya, Zombies, and Esper. Not many people think of bringing it in against Naya, but let me tell you, exiling a Huntmaster before it starts flipping back and forth and becoming a serious problem is a really good idea. a Huntmaster that flips 2 or more times usually means game over for us. I also recommend a 1/1 split between Divine Offering and Revoke Existence. The loss of instant speed for the versatility of the Revoke is totally worth it. Curse of Death's Hold, O-Ring, Honor of the Pure, Angelic Destiny, and Intangible Virtue are all troublesome cards that can really hurt us. Especially Curse and Destiny. My last suggestion is to cut 1 copy of Timely, and 1 copy of Surgical Extraction and run 2x Gideon Jura. He is good against just about every deck except Control and Wolf Run these days, and the interaction with Restoration Angel is a bit overpowered....Animate Gideon into a 6/6, swing, then flicker him with Angel, allowing you to +2 him or even -2 him is VERY good. S

He runs 12 cantrips, which helps with the low land count...I still don't think I could run 19. 20 is the minimum I could do. I also think 4 thought scour is just overkill. I've always run 2 myself, but could see going up to 3x and cutting a land.

I'm scared of Cavern of Souls Titan Ramp. I don't think this deck will be able to deal with 8 uncounterable Titans that start to come out on turn 4.

Just built this on Friday, played 2 local tournaments with it, going undefeated in rounds both times, and losing only 2 games total in both tournaments. I really like the deck, and it is incredibly versatile. Mutagenic Growth was a last minute addition before the 2nd tournament, and it was a total MVP. It is a counterspell and a shock built into one card. I usually just use it to save Delver or Geist's life, but one game, I used it to get in the last 2 damage I needed with my Geist's Angel to win, when I was dead on board next turn to a swamp of human tokens.



I want to try out Lingering Souls, and if I do, I will play the following list.



Which do you guys think is stronger?

Guys,

As a longtime lover of this archetype, I am SUPER excited about how powerful this deck is going to be come AVR...I drafted up a list with the new cards, and it looks something like this:



I emailed it to my playtest group, and we all agree, it has potential to be Tier 1. Every creature except for Vexing Devil is uncounterable with Cavern of Souls....this just seems insane. Throw in the Loot land, and Snapcasters and Lavamancers, and we have some serious synergy going on. I just need to fit in a pair of Noxious revivals....which might take the place of Tamiyo. As sweet as she is, I'm not sure if this is the right home for her. We'll see....

Right after I emailed it, I opened up SCG to read the new articles, and low and behold....Gerry T's new article is a AVR brewing article, and his first deck is UR Delver. Here is his list from the article:



After checking out his list, I definitely think I want to fit some Noxious Revivals into my list (There is a reason this card is sold out @ SCG and foil versions are also sold out @ $10 a pop)