- Can I afford to put in 1-2 more mutavault's or is that too ambitious?
- Is 20 lands, 18 red sources enough?
- I just traded for the single Chandra, Pyromancer and am still testing her out (only played one tourney with her) but what do you guys think about her? She seems like a very solid 4 drop in here.
- Why don't more people play Stonewright here? He does a lot of important work for me in this deck.
- 3 pillar/4 shock or 4 pillar/3 shock?
I really do like my main-board but the sideboard feels like it needs some work...
-What matchups would you bring in Pyreheart wolf in against? Is it worth it? What about the mainboard? He seems to do well in a variety of matchups (there really are 0 decks not running creatures to block)
-4 Burning earth is the right amount here right? Lot's of Jund and W/U variants in my meta... Do I bring in 4 on the draw? on the play?
-4 Volcanic Strength too many? I love it in most aggro matchups (so long as they run red) but most if not all of these decks run removal not only in the form of burn (which VS can jump over quickly) but in the form of Dreadbore and what-not.
- More Mizzium Mortars?
Thanks for the help guys any feedback is greatly appreciated!
So I am thinking of adding 2 of the new chandra to the mainboard and maybe 1 land to go to 21 (2 being mutavaults). Her first ability allows me to cut my 2 pyreheart wolves in place of her and helps with chandra's pheonix. Also, in theory her 0 ability should generate some decent card advantage for a deck that has none. So many times I have my opponent at 5 or less and I need a topdeck burn spell to end it each turn, she doubles that chance correct?
So I'm thinking this list right here is what I will run..
Seem like a solid mainboard? Part of me wants to include the BTE + Lightning mauler package but I'd have to tear into it a bit and maybe lost Ash Zealot and Stonewright which I don't think I am willing to do (Stonewright has proven very useful in testing and combo's decently with Ash Zealot).
You need 1 drops in the form of Rakdos Cackler, Stromkirk Noble, and or Stonewright. Id go down to 2 Chandra's max if you can, cut all the Burning Earth from the maindeck, cut the loyalists (not a big fan) and try to get those one drops in there. Also I like me 4 hellriders
Don't know how much I like my sideboard but the mainboard has been doing well. I am debating cutting the 2 pyrehearts for maybe 2 Burning Trees and maybe trying to fit Lightning Mauler in there, but man he can just win games especially in my local meta (lots of mono green and grull).
Still feels a little subpar.. Can Delver find a home here? I suppose that would change the deck int osomething completely different.. Maybe like a Aggro Delver style simic? Something like this:
Like I said.. different deck but it seems like it could do some work. I like the look of it but may not hold up late game unless it does major work early. Plus I don't have snapcasters yet. Lemme know what you think
So I just posted this over to the budget forum as I am low on funds and it seems like a decent idea I have been mulling around with for a while today.. but how do you think this would fare at an FNM?
Maybe with some Snapcasters in there? What cards should I add/take away and is it possible to keep it just U/G and cheap and still do well? Tell me what you think.
Pretty standard... any ideas to make this deck better? It can do what it does pretty damn fast but I don't know if what it does it fancy enough to win game?
Here is an idea I was hoping to get some critical feedback on (let me have it, but please shine lights on pros as well as cons if you can see the pros, I guess if there is one, it is fast as hell and can nut draw like a squirrel on speed, even better than naya blitz on rare occasions (it wins that deck over in consistency most definitely though)
To start, I don't know if 4 enchantments is too many (especially considering none are rancor, the best enchantment, but I do think we have the creature count to support them) and I know 2 for 1s are a BIG issue in any deck, especially considering azorious charms are prevelant in my local meta. I think it can handle 4 of them at the most (and I like Furor otb > Volcanic S main deck, in this deck at least) as they can prove for some very, very nasty first couple of turn beats coupled with a noble, cackler or even stonewright, our 3 of and extremely necessary mana sink (even with the 18 land count IMHO).
Here is the plan if it isn't already obvious (it doesn't differ much from any other RDW, but there are a couple key differences) deal 20 damage ASAP to your opponent with your creatures and burn before they mount enough defense in the form of thragtusk or any 4-7 drop stall bomb for that matter.
Only a couple differences from the 21-23 land versions. Obviously the main one is no hellrider, or reckoner (you could fit maybe 2 reckoner main, I wouldn't go 4 IMO could be wrong though). So this means the 3-6 land slots we would normally devote to hellrider are free to devote to something that can actually threaten the opponent. The problem I forsee here is hellrider gives us that T4 (and many many games drag to at least turn 4 in the midrange/tusk heavy meta) blowout that overrides or can override our opponents turn 5 plans of stabilizing with tusks or whatever else (faithmender aka the devil comes to mind).
So how to we make up for this? We use brimstone volley and pray that we can either couple it with Vexing devil (a rarity of a draw but 9 damage or a late game 4/3 creature can be gamebreaking) or that the 5 damage from a more or less inevitable morbid trigger to the face is enough to steal the game quick (T3-6 before our opponent can kill us or stabilize depending on aggro or midrange or control). Also Dynacharge on turn 3 with an overload if you have the mana can be game wining.
By turn 3 when brimstone along with a barrage of critters should be attacking and online and ready to die for the morbid activation hopefully we can squeeze the last of the 20 damage through.
Dynacharge (I would never run more than 2) is another way to blow out a game on T3 and if you have even 2 creatures attacking (perhaps a rakdos cackler with a Furor of the bitten, making it a 4/4 along with a 2/2 stromkirk noble, making the swing (assuming no blocks or shenanigans.. I know, big assumption) total up to 10 using only 4 cards. Seems relativity plausible but obviously we aren't playing walls.
How do you think this thing (knowing I haven't tested it yet) can fare in the meta? Is vexing devil just not a worthy inclusion, 90% of the things I read/hear about him are negative...? How about ss a 3 of with brimstone, the curve of 4 with Brim/Vex in your hand and an opponent choosing to take the 4 damage (which by turn 4 after they should be running low or out of removal might be the more heavily chosen option, especially game one, and especially if they have, oh I dont know, like 11-14 life to spare) can be broootal. It is not as reliable ofa finisher as hellrider obviously because hellrider finishes games with ONE card, you don't need to draw a 2 card combo for him to end a game on T4. The advantage is more threats in the form of lil one drop dudes, burn and firefist/pyreheart to get around early blocks (loxodon smiter comes to mind), and not to mention even 4 brimstone volley MD is arguably extremely playable, even without the Vexing Devil Inclusion. I just love that combo bam 9 to yo face son.... It is wishful but can happen.
If you have read all this rant I commend you and hope to hear what you think, can it be viable? At least tier 1.5, maybe consistent and/or rogue enough to win some FNMs or even bigger events?
Yeah, I have heard Brimstone Volley + Vexing Devil brought up at one of my local shops and couldn't help but too wonder what a hyper aggro mono red deck using 4 brimstone and 4 vexing could do. I mean it IS only a 2 piece combo but the cards aren't that bad on there own (Vexing devil arguably more so), and if you get it online (4 lands in play + Vexing/Brimstone in hand, not sure the odds) It is usually going to be a bit of a beating at least. Couple this with the fact that mono red is already viable, and has the ability to make the 9 from the combo lethal by the time you get it off. I will post a list in the RDW forum this prolly isn't the place for it. But hey even a Gruul deck can do Devil + Brimstone, I don't have much faith in it but it is an interesting thought to test out.
This, BTE not only craves things that can optimize it's mana expenditure, but also provides an 'extra' body for Firefists battalion trigger. So hopefully by turn 3 you have battalion going off with 3 guys on board.
I have been using 3 MD and while he works occasionally, he is proving to be no more than a 2/1 for 2 more than I would like. With all the charms and removal around it is tough to get him and 3 doods to stick, and it seems like a win more situation when it does happen quite often.
I am thinking of going back to pyreheart wolf and taking out my 3 firefist... But when they work it can be so beautiful. Maybe 2 Firefist main and 2 pyreaheart?
So there is this card Civic Saber, it has proven itse'f as a useful pick in limited events, but I am attempting in this post to make a standard deck that is actually viable that runs 3-4 civic Saber. The idea is to take advantage of rancor and civic saber with a high multi-colored creature count to create a consistently decent aggro deck. And I need your help!
I have two lists in my head right now, here is the first:
I don't know if the mana base is good enough for the deck, and obviously it won't hold it's ground to some of the faster more consistent aggro decks, but it looks worth a shot. I'll do some cockatricing or something when I get my laptop back tomorrow.
Second Idea is Azorious Civic Saber and looks something like this:
These are just top of my head idea's to try to make Civic Saber actually deserve a spot in the main deck, which I am hesitant to say that it might not. That's the idea though. I usually don't like working with over 2 colors because I crave consistent mana, so this is a bit out of my comfort zone. But hey I like the card Civic Saber and I just want it to work IS THAT OK WITH YOU!?!?!
Any help or deck lists/ideas would be much appreciated. I know this won't ever be on the same tier as say naya blitz or RDW/Turbo Gruul but I think it can do some work. Suggestions/comments/criticism/calling me a douchbag is all welcome!
I've never been a huge fan of stonewright, but he is good, and I do play him (2x). Although I can't really see him as a 3of or 4of... The hands I get both stonewrights in + like a reckoner or something are sooo painfully slow and awkward that I mull them. To me its a supporting card thats nice to see once in a while, and great to see as a mana sink (like against esper after a board wipe turn 5-6 and later with both players in topdeck mode... To get him and lightning mauler, yumm).
Heh just played a game vs the new RUG flash deck. He magmaquakes my ****, I topdeck a while till I get Ghor Clan in play. He has two wolfirs in play, 2 cards in hand. I have mizzium mortars, searing spear, volcanic strength. He is at 5 life. I go HMMMMMM, mortar one of his wolfirs and he bites, syncopates and taps all but two. I smile, click ok, slap the the volcanic strength down and he immediately concedes. Can't remember the last time that one worked. Apparently he plays a lot of magic too.
Been kinda on a cold streak lately, haven't got to play much. Went back up to 20 lands and of course I get knocked out of a daily because of land flood, ridiculous I know. I probably had no business placing in that one, two of my matches were against aristocrats with MD blood artist, etc and they all got their travelers, aristocrats, souls and reckoners on curve. Probably the toughest board state I've ever encountered.
Got my playset of temple gardens, don't know how much longer I'll stick around here.
You are certainly right that he is a support card. He is definately not a stand alone player, that much should be obvious to everyone. I'm glad you have found him useful at all though, I just have this sense that this deck needs a mana sink and Skaarg guildmage is awesome, but costs too much for my deck to handle (4 mana to effectively use his ability and attack with a 4/4 land) if it was RG instead of 1RG I would be all over him. I want to have 18 lands so I can optimize my 1-3CC threat count, that is what this deck does well, pumps out threats and turns them sideways ASAP.
The builds with more lands are the ones that can support wolf run, which makes them less inclined to include stonewright as they already have an awesome mana sink in their mainboard, which I understand fully.
The deck I have been playing is the lighter land, heavy red version which looks like this:
Note: Cars are listed in order of CC, with the CC topping out at 3 with 2 Boros Reckoners. I wrote a couple notes on some inclusions also.
2x Boros Reckoner (as much as I want this slot to be Pyreheart wolf, I already have 3 Firefist Strikers MD and he can turn an aggro game around beautifully, 4 is too many IMO though for my deck atleast)
4x Reckless Waif (she/he? has been working well but might not be the worthiest sideboard inclusion, what other cards are very useful against control archtypes? I do not like Skullcrack as it has failed me hard in my testing with it.)
So thats 32 creatures (34 counting the off chance of hard casting Ghor-Clan) including stonewright, 29-31 discounting stonewright. I feel like my 3 count is a good number and he has proven himself enough to solidify my opinion that he is at least worthy of more testing. The downsides are pretty obvious of course, If he is all you have after a board wipe he won't do you any good, he's not a loner and needs buddies to work. The thing is I really feel like he is the only mana sink for my deck (Skaarg won't work, Wolf Run kills my mana base, and Helion does the same) and the deck as I illustrated above runs 31 potential buddies for him. 2 or 3 is more than likely the right number, if you are going to play him. He has been game winningly awesome more times than not in my testing though, and is one of the few ways I have been able to deal with opposing Faithmenders (god that card stops this deck cold). Actually I was seriously considering abandoning Gruul altogether to go back to RDW with hellriders until I put him in here.
Another thing I am considering is cutting firefist striker. He is amazing when he works but it's getting him to work that is causing me issues. Maybe -3 FIrefist +1 Ghor-Clan +2 Pyreaheart wolf. Or even -3 Firefist, +3 Gorehouse Chainwalker (Haven't tested him much outside of the RDW shell). Too often I feel like my opponent has enough removal to consistently thwart his battalion trigger, and almost every Jund and U/W variant has a consistent removal strategy especially considering how creature heavy the meta is right now...
It seems like every g'damn post I have made lately is defending stonewright in low land gruul decks so I am going to shut the hell up about it now, I promise.
Test him for yourself and report back I am curious to know how it goes, I have done a fair amount of testing but admittedly it isn't enough to solidify anything regarding stonewright. I can say though in the limited testing pool I have, he has provided me a solid mana dump that has provided me with wins that literally no other card in the deck could.
I have to say I absolutely agree here. Having to play creatures that die to removal is really a pain. I guess thats the reason why the two only creatures that see constructed play are Geist of Saint Traft (but be afraid, the angel token still can get removed) and Invisible Stalker (eventhough he is a 1/1, but hey, with only Geist in the Meta, who should block?)
No seriously GR Sligh is an aggro deck which supposed to have a ton of litte critters. It made Top 8 at a GP and also Top 16 some SCGs if I remember correctly. While its not the über Tier 1 Deck it's a lot of fun and can win you tournaments.
My point here is: If the Meta is infested with removals, isn't it better to run more creatures then less?
All those cards listed take care of stonewright linked with whatever sure, that's all fine and dandy, but it completely irrelevant to the point. Stonewright is the only (atleast in my 18 land gruul deck) mana sink that is viabnle to use. Forget wolfrun in my deck. Also I have the creatures to support me running 3 stonewrights as my deck consists of 18 lands, 4 rancor, 4 searing spear, and 34 creatures. He doesn't have a lack of buddies. I want to go to 4 but I suppose I will stay at 3 until I test him as a 4 of.
The reason I wanted to spark the discussion is because I HAVE tested the deck with stonewright and without it and it performs CONSISTANTLY better with stonewright in the mainboard.
There are so many times when a single loxodon smiter gets played against your board of Ash Zealot, rakdos cackler, and flinthoof boar... Making attacking a ****ing chore. Stonewright allows you to either A) push through extra damage if him or his buddy don't get blocked with the mana that you are most likely not doign anything else with anyway or B) kill that dick loxodon smiter.
THere are so many times where topdecking a stonewright is useful it is nuts that more peopel aren't playing it. It can purge a board stall that would have resulted in you losing the game quite easily.
I really have trouble seeing the cons of ATLEAST 2 stonewright maindeck. Also I tested with 4 reckoner and it was too clunky. I woudln't play more than 2 reckoner maindeck unless your ENTIRE meta is naya and gruul/rdw decks. Pyreheart seems to just be a better option in my local meta.
Naya might be the faster and ebtter aggro deck but I really think Gruul WITH the stonewright is SIGNIFICANTLY better than without (red based gruul with low land counts atleast) and I am confused as to why I see 1 in every 10 decks running stonewright.
That's all, I have tested stonewright and he has made MY deck better. I run a red based version with 18 lands, the only green being for rancor and flinthoof boar.
4x Rakdos Cackler
3x Stonewright
3x Firefist Striker
1x Pyreheart wolf
4x Ash Zealot
4x Chandra's Pheonix
1x Chandra Pyromancer
4x Hellrider
3x Shock
4x Searing Spear
2x Mutavault
18x Mountain
Questions for the mainboard:
- Can I afford to put in 1-2 more mutavault's or is that too ambitious?
- Is 20 lands, 18 red sources enough?
- I just traded for the single Chandra, Pyromancer and am still testing her out (only played one tourney with her) but what do you guys think about her? She seems like a very solid 4 drop in here.
- Why don't more people play Stonewright here? He does a lot of important work for me in this deck.
- 3 pillar/4 shock or 4 pillar/3 shock?
I really do like my main-board but the sideboard feels like it needs some work...
SB:
Questions for the sideboard:
-What matchups would you bring in Pyreheart wolf in against? Is it worth it? What about the mainboard? He seems to do well in a variety of matchups (there really are 0 decks not running creatures to block)
-4 Burning earth is the right amount here right? Lot's of Jund and W/U variants in my meta... Do I bring in 4 on the draw? on the play?
-4 Volcanic Strength too many? I love it in most aggro matchups (so long as they run red) but most if not all of these decks run removal not only in the form of burn (which VS can jump over quickly) but in the form of Dreadbore and what-not.
- More Mizzium Mortars?
Thanks for the help guys any feedback is greatly appreciated!
So I'm thinking this list right here is what I will run..
2x Mutavault
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Stromkirk Noble
3x Stonewright
4x Ash Zealot
4x Firefist Striker
4x Chandra's Pheonix
4x Hellrider
4x Pillar of flame
3x Shock
2x Chandra, Pyromasterr
Seem like a solid mainboard? Part of me wants to include the BTE + Lightning mauler package but I'd have to tear into it a bit and maybe lost Ash Zealot and Stonewright which I don't think I am willing to do (Stonewright has proven very useful in testing and combo's decently with Ash Zealot).
You need 1 drops in the form of Rakdos Cackler, Stromkirk Noble, and or Stonewright. Id go down to 2 Chandra's max if you can, cut all the Burning Earth from the maindeck, cut the loyalists (not a big fan) and try to get those one drops in there. Also I like me 4 hellriders
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Ash Zealot
3x Stonewright (People forget he exists, he is GOOD in this deck! best mana sink IMO)
4x Firefist Striker
2x Pyreheart wolf
4x Chandra's Pheonix
4x Hellrider
3x Pillar of flame
4x Searing Spear
18xMountain
2x Mutavault
SB
Don't know how much I like my sideboard but the mainboard has been doing well. I am debating cutting the 2 pyrehearts for maybe 2 Burning Trees and maybe trying to fit Lightning Mauler in there, but man he can just win games especially in my local meta (lots of mono green and grull).
4x Wandering Wolf
4x Invisible Stalker
2x Phantom Warrior
4x Wild Defiance
3x Hunger of the Howlpack
4x Titanic Growth
4x Giant Growth
4x Simic Charm
2x Revenge of the Hunted
2x Ranger's Guile
Still feels a little subpar.. Can Delver find a home here? I suppose that would change the deck int osomething completely different.. Maybe like a Aggro Delver style simic? Something like this:
4x Quirion Dryad
2x Augur of Bolas
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Spell Rupture
2x Syncopate
2x Tracker's Instincts
4x Simic Charm
4x Think Twice
3x Runechanter's Pike
20x Land
Like I said.. different deck but it seems like it could do some work. I like the look of it but may not hold up late game unless it does major work early. Plus I don't have snapcasters yet. Lemme know what you think
4x Invisible Stalker
3x Wandering Wolf
3x Latch Seeker
3x Spectral Flight
3x Artful Dodge
4x Giant Growth
2x Curiosity
4x Titanic Growth
2x Simic Charm
1x Revenge of the Hunted
4x Rancor
Maybe with some Snapcasters in there? What cards should I add/take away and is it possible to keep it just U/G and cheap and still do well? Tell me what you think.
4x Invisible Stalker
3x Wandering Wolf
3x Latch Seeker
3x Spectral Flight
3x Artful Dodge
4x Giant Growth
2x Curiosity
4x Titanic Growth
2x Simic Charm
1x Revenge of the Hunted
4x Rancor
Feels likea fun concept.. Any chance we could make this semi viable?
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Gyre Sage
2x Elvish Archdruid
2x Dreadbridge Goliath
4x Predator Ooze
2x CraterHoof Behemoth
4x Wolfir Siverheart
1x Yeva, Natures Herald
1x Tree of Redemption
4x Rancor
2x Ranger's Guile
2x Revenge of the Hunted
22x Forest
Something Simple and cheap like that? For some reason this actually seems like it could do some work to me
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Gyre Sage
4x Predator Ooze
2x Craterhoof Behemouth
4x Wolfir Silverheart
4x Rancor
3x Revenge of the Hunted
3x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
4x Mutavault
Maybe something like this more aggro oriented build:
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Gyre Sage
3x Strangleroot Geist
4x Predator Ooze
3x Wolfir Sivlerheart
4x Deadbridge goliath
4x Rancor
2x Ranger's Guile
2x Revenge of the Hunted
4x Mutavault
Pretty standard... any ideas to make this deck better? It can do what it does pretty damn fast but I don't know if what it does it fancy enough to win game?
4x Stromkirk noble
4x Rakdos Cackler
3x Stonewright
4x Burning Tree Emissary
4x Lightning Mauler
2x Gore House Chain-walker
2x Pyreheart wolf
3x Firefist Striker
2x Searing Spear
1x Pillar of Flame
1x Mugging
2x Dynacharge
2x Madcap Skills
18x Mountain
To start, I don't know if 4 enchantments is too many (especially considering none are rancor, the best enchantment, but I do think we have the creature count to support them) and I know 2 for 1s are a BIG issue in any deck, especially considering azorious charms are prevelant in my local meta. I think it can handle 4 of them at the most (and I like Furor otb > Volcanic S main deck, in this deck at least) as they can prove for some very, very nasty first couple of turn beats coupled with a noble, cackler or even stonewright, our 3 of and extremely necessary mana sink (even with the 18 land count IMHO).
Here is the plan if it isn't already obvious (it doesn't differ much from any other RDW, but there are a couple key differences) deal 20 damage ASAP to your opponent with your creatures and burn before they mount enough defense in the form of thragtusk or any 4-7 drop stall bomb for that matter.
Only a couple differences from the 21-23 land versions. Obviously the main one is no hellrider, or reckoner (you could fit maybe 2 reckoner main, I wouldn't go 4 IMO could be wrong though). So this means the 3-6 land slots we would normally devote to hellrider are free to devote to something that can actually threaten the opponent. The problem I forsee here is hellrider gives us that T4 (and many many games drag to at least turn 4 in the midrange/tusk heavy meta) blowout that overrides or can override our opponents turn 5 plans of stabilizing with tusks or whatever else (faithmender aka the devil comes to mind).
So how to we make up for this? We use brimstone volley and pray that we can either couple it with Vexing devil (a rarity of a draw but 9 damage or a late game 4/3 creature can be gamebreaking) or that the 5 damage from a more or less inevitable morbid trigger to the face is enough to steal the game quick (T3-6 before our opponent can kill us or stabilize depending on aggro or midrange or control). Also Dynacharge on turn 3 with an overload if you have the mana can be game wining.
By turn 3 when brimstone along with a barrage of critters should be attacking and online and ready to die for the morbid activation hopefully we can squeeze the last of the 20 damage through.
Dynacharge (I would never run more than 2) is another way to blow out a game on T3 and if you have even 2 creatures attacking (perhaps a rakdos cackler with a Furor of the bitten, making it a 4/4 along with a 2/2 stromkirk noble, making the swing (assuming no blocks or shenanigans.. I know, big assumption) total up to 10 using only 4 cards. Seems relativity plausible but obviously we aren't playing walls.
How do you think this thing (knowing I haven't tested it yet) can fare in the meta? Is vexing devil just not a worthy inclusion, 90% of the things I read/hear about him are negative...? How about ss a 3 of with brimstone, the curve of 4 with Brim/Vex in your hand and an opponent choosing to take the 4 damage (which by turn 4 after they should be running low or out of removal might be the more heavily chosen option, especially game one, and especially if they have, oh I dont know, like 11-14 life to spare) can be broootal. It is not as reliable ofa finisher as hellrider obviously because hellrider finishes games with ONE card, you don't need to draw a 2 card combo for him to end a game on T4. The advantage is more threats in the form of lil one drop dudes, burn and firefist/pyreheart to get around early blocks (loxodon smiter comes to mind), and not to mention even 4 brimstone volley MD is arguably extremely playable, even without the Vexing Devil Inclusion. I just love that combo bam 9 to yo face son.... It is wishful but can happen.
If you have read all this rant I commend you and hope to hear what you think, can it be viable? At least tier 1.5, maybe consistent and/or rogue enough to win some FNMs or even bigger events?
This, BTE not only craves things that can optimize it's mana expenditure, but also provides an 'extra' body for Firefists battalion trigger. So hopefully by turn 3 you have battalion going off with 3 guys on board.
I have been using 3 MD and while he works occasionally, he is proving to be no more than a 2/1 for 2 more than I would like. With all the charms and removal around it is tough to get him and 3 doods to stick, and it seems like a win more situation when it does happen quite often.
I am thinking of going back to pyreheart wolf and taking out my 3 firefist... But when they work it can be so beautiful. Maybe 2 Firefist main and 2 pyreaheart?
I have two lists in my head right now, here is the first:
4x Dryad Militant
4x Lotleth Troll
3x Burning Tree Emissary
2x Rix Maadi Guildmage
4x Dreg Mangler
2x Rakdos Shred Freak
2x Hellhole Flailer
1x Brimstone Volley
2x Mugging
4x Rancor
3x Civic Saber
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Blood Crypt
4x Stomping Ground
3x Rootbound Crag
2x Wodland Cemetary
2x Dragonskuill Summit
2x Mountain
1x Sacred Foundry
I don't know if the mana base is good enough for the deck, and obviously it won't hold it's ground to some of the faster more consistent aggro decks, but it looks worth a shot. I'll do some cockatricing or something when I get my laptop back tomorrow.
Second Idea is Azorious Civic Saber and looks something like this:
4x Judge's Farmiliar
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Lyev Skyknight
4x Centaur Healer
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Azorious Charm
3x Syncopate
4x Rancor
3x Civic Saber
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Plains
2x Forest
2x Island
These are just top of my head idea's to try to make Civic Saber actually deserve a spot in the main deck, which I am hesitant to say that it might not. That's the idea though. I usually don't like working with over 2 colors because I crave consistent mana, so this is a bit out of my comfort zone. But hey I like the card Civic Saber and I just want it to work IS THAT OK WITH YOU!?!?!
Any help or deck lists/ideas would be much appreciated. I know this won't ever be on the same tier as say naya blitz or RDW/Turbo Gruul but I think it can do some work. Suggestions/comments/criticism/calling me a douchbag is all welcome!
You are certainly right that he is a support card. He is definately not a stand alone player, that much should be obvious to everyone. I'm glad you have found him useful at all though, I just have this sense that this deck needs a mana sink and Skaarg guildmage is awesome, but costs too much for my deck to handle (4 mana to effectively use his ability and attack with a 4/4 land) if it was RG instead of 1RG I would be all over him. I want to have 18 lands so I can optimize my 1-3CC threat count, that is what this deck does well, pumps out threats and turns them sideways ASAP.
The builds with more lands are the ones that can support wolf run, which makes them less inclined to include stonewright as they already have an awesome mana sink in their mainboard, which I understand fully.
The deck I have been playing is the lighter land, heavy red version which looks like this:
Note: Cars are listed in order of CC, with the CC topping out at 3 with 2 Boros Reckoners. I wrote a couple notes on some inclusions also.
4x Stomping Ground
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Rakdos Cackler
3x Stonewright
4x Rancor
4x BTE
4x Ash Zealot
4x Flinthoof Boar
3x Firefist Striker (skeptical here, might -1 to +1 Ghor-Clan)
2x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Searing Spear (sometimes I feel like just 4 burn isn't enough, and might put in 2 mugging or Pillar main deck)
So thats 32 creatures (34 counting the off chance of hard casting Ghor-Clan) including stonewright, 29-31 discounting stonewright. I feel like my 3 count is a good number and he has proven himself enough to solidify my opinion that he is at least worthy of more testing. The downsides are pretty obvious of course, If he is all you have after a board wipe he won't do you any good, he's not a loner and needs buddies to work. The thing is I really feel like he is the only mana sink for my deck (Skaarg won't work, Wolf Run kills my mana base, and Helion does the same) and the deck as I illustrated above runs 31 potential buddies for him. 2 or 3 is more than likely the right number, if you are going to play him. He has been game winningly awesome more times than not in my testing though, and is one of the few ways I have been able to deal with opposing Faithmenders (god that card stops this deck cold). Actually I was seriously considering abandoning Gruul altogether to go back to RDW with hellriders until I put him in here.
Another thing I am considering is cutting firefist striker. He is amazing when he works but it's getting him to work that is causing me issues. Maybe -3 FIrefist +1 Ghor-Clan +2 Pyreaheart wolf. Or even -3 Firefist, +3 Gorehouse Chainwalker (Haven't tested him much outside of the RDW shell). Too often I feel like my opponent has enough removal to consistently thwart his battalion trigger, and almost every Jund and U/W variant has a consistent removal strategy especially considering how creature heavy the meta is right now...
It seems like every g'damn post I have made lately is defending stonewright in low land gruul decks so I am going to shut the hell up about it now, I promise.
Test him for yourself and report back I am curious to know how it goes, I have done a fair amount of testing but admittedly it isn't enough to solidify anything regarding stonewright. I can say though in the limited testing pool I have, he has provided me a solid mana dump that has provided me with wins that literally no other card in the deck could.
All those cards listed take care of stonewright linked with whatever sure, that's all fine and dandy, but it completely irrelevant to the point. Stonewright is the only (atleast in my 18 land gruul deck) mana sink that is viabnle to use. Forget wolfrun in my deck. Also I have the creatures to support me running 3 stonewrights as my deck consists of 18 lands, 4 rancor, 4 searing spear, and 34 creatures. He doesn't have a lack of buddies. I want to go to 4 but I suppose I will stay at 3 until I test him as a 4 of.
The reason I wanted to spark the discussion is because I HAVE tested the deck with stonewright and without it and it performs CONSISTANTLY better with stonewright in the mainboard.
There are so many times when a single loxodon smiter gets played against your board of Ash Zealot, rakdos cackler, and flinthoof boar... Making attacking a ****ing chore. Stonewright allows you to either A) push through extra damage if him or his buddy don't get blocked with the mana that you are most likely not doign anything else with anyway or B) kill that dick loxodon smiter.
THere are so many times where topdecking a stonewright is useful it is nuts that more peopel aren't playing it. It can purge a board stall that would have resulted in you losing the game quite easily.
I really have trouble seeing the cons of ATLEAST 2 stonewright maindeck. Also I tested with 4 reckoner and it was too clunky. I woudln't play more than 2 reckoner maindeck unless your ENTIRE meta is naya and gruul/rdw decks. Pyreheart seems to just be a better option in my local meta.
Naya might be the faster and ebtter aggro deck but I really think Gruul WITH the stonewright is SIGNIFICANTLY better than without (red based gruul with low land counts atleast) and I am confused as to why I see 1 in every 10 decks running stonewright.
That's all, I have tested stonewright and he has made MY deck better. I run a red based version with 18 lands, the only green being for rancor and flinthoof boar.