Btw, Deathrite Shaman is already in a modern legal set and banned in the format. My understanding is that they're not including cards from modern legal sets.
I think if you want a counterspell for this deck, it's Disrupting Shoal. I've played RUG Delver with Thing and Reveler for a while, and the card is nuts when you have ways to recover card advantage. Here, you can even Shoal your own spell for zero mana if you need your Phoenixes online ASAP.
Denial probably takes too long to come online in this deck to be very useful. Izzet Charm seems versatile but it's horribly inefficient.
Gnarlwood Dryad was impossible to support with both Shoal and Stubborn Denial, so it got the axe.
I tried running a Hooting Mandrills to turn on Denial, but found it unnecessary and at odds with the Graveyard plan; the second Reveller has been much better.
Speaking of Bedlam Reveler, I have found it to be stellar, it just needed the Faithless Looting tech to really come into its own.
Faithless Looting is the glue that holds this all together. The deck runs so many situationally powerful cards that it's really valuable to be able to dig for what you need and ditch the chaff. Here it also turns on delirium, triggers Thing twice, ramps Reveler and is generally just an all-star. Between Looting and Shoal, few cards go to waste.
My Tarmogoyfs are BIG.
Thing continues to impress. I love it in conjunction with Shoal - they support each other; Shoal protects Thing and allows for the occasional turn three flip, and Thing pitches to Shoal when it's unwanted.
I really want better sideboard cards for UW control, actually, just something that deals with or survives Supreme Verdict. That match got a lot better when I realised that Azcanta was the enemy, and boarded Fulminator Mage and Ghost Quarter to get with Traverse. However, Supreme Verdict is still a headache, and the match is always an uphill struggle.
I may want to find space for Ghost Quarter in the main, but I'm unsure what I would cut as the list is so delicately balanced. Can't really go lower on Delver flips, blue for Shoal, or delirium enablers, which pretty much only leaves non-blue creatures. Hmmm.
I've played a lot with Pyromancer and TiTI, and it's definitely a meta call. Pyro is stronger against Liliana and Jace whereas Thing is much better against most creature matchups. I like either in conjunction with Spell Pierce and Disrupting Shoal, though Thing gets a bonus with the latter for being a blue two drop.
I personally think Thing's evacuation effect does some serious heavy lifting for this deck, and does a much better job of getting past blockers and dealing with flyers than Pyro can. You can run both since bouncing your tokens doesn't matter too much when you have a 7/8 on an empty board.
That said, I'm not sure I'd want to run it with Mandrills. It could be ok, since generally flipping it with a counter up creates a winning game state, but getting stuck with an uncastable Hoots after Thing is removed would be pretty rough. This is part of the reason I was keen to revisit Gnarlwood Dryad and hence Delirium.
I'm still not sure how important Traverse really is to my build. It certainly helps smooth land drops, increase threat density, and allows bullets like Reveler and Ghost Quarter, but it does feel slow, takes blue slots from the Shoal count, and the Reveler package may just be redundant while running Chart a Course.
Ah thanks, only one Botanical Sanctum. Not sure if 4 Shoal is necessary, also not sure if 4 Traverse is. However, I would like to get in more games before making changes since the deck seems to be functioning well.
Before, I was running 3 Tarfire and 3 Thought Scour, and 3 Chart. So the first thing I'm interested in checking is whether the new delirium enablers are sufficient.
Yeah I can see the appeal of that list and can't wait to try it. I'd be tempted to run more Stubborn Denial if I was powering out 4 power creatures that consistently though.
I ran YP for quite a while in various decks, and it's a great card, and does fill a similar role to Thing, but Thing is Bolt proof and resets the board (and Snapcaster). The downside is it's weaker to hard spot removal, and if you don't find four spells, it does nothing, not that that's been an issue so far, but there will definitely be games where it is (Looting does work there).
I want plenty of one drops because I think the deck functions optimally when it drops a threat on turn one, and I'd rather force my opponent to spend their one mana removal spell on my one drops than on my two drops. Can't have THEM gaining tempo advantage now, can we? I mean, that's just not cricket.
The deatchtouch has been super useful. I had a game where my Dryads stopped two Platinum Emporiums until I could flip Thing and kill them on the spot. Opponent just couldn't attack, all I had to do was counter removal spells until I won. Same thing with other fatties. It's like, cool 9/9 Knight of the Reliquary bro, shame it'll die to Dryad if you attack. Flip Thing, you're dead. So I guess it fills a similar role to Young Pyromancer in that regard, just for one less mana, better topdecks, only one hit of trample damage and a keyword that can act as pseudo evasion. Oh and it synergises with Thing. EDIT: obviously the grave hate is real, and it has a lower ceiling, but one mana. One!
First off, congratulations to Chaughey on your recent finishes! I will definitely be trying that list out.
Right then.
So, apologies for my last post being so messy. I've now taken the time to put my thoughts down properly, and although I haven't discussed the matches I've played in detail, I have mentioned the odd interaction that I've come across that I think is worth pointing out. Fair warning, the post is quite long:
I have been looking at RUG Delver as an archetype over the past few months and pondering how to address some of its traditional weaknesses:
1. Difficulty in dealing with large resolved threats due, primarily, to a lack of hard removal.
2. A tendency to run out of gas in longer games against grindier decks.
3. The need for a high threat density in many match ups conflicting with the need for a high instant and sorcery count for Delver.
4. Splash damage from graveyard hate neutering the deck.
I wanted to find a configuration that solved or at least partially remedied these issues whilst keeping the deck centred on the tempo plan. I wanted to be able to come out of the gates running, apply pressure and disrupt my opponents from the first turn, but I also wanted the deck to be capable of going long, grinding out my opponents, and dealing with their late game plans. I wanted it to be resilient to hate to boot. I wanted a deck that had it all.
With these lofty ambitions in mind, I began my theory crafting. I knew that I wanted to start with two play sets of one drops. Real one drops; the kind that can be cast on turn one without assistance. The reasoning behind this was fairly simple; I wanted to be able to cast a one drop turn one and hold up counter magic, and to have the choice between casting a one drop and spell or a two drop on turn two. This is where tempo wants to be. Drop a threat immediately then sit back and disrupt. I didn't want to be spending games waiting until turn three to do this. I also figured this would take some of the sting out of losing the coin toss - I would still be able to drop a threat and disrupt my opponent’s crucial third turn on the draw, and that’s exactly what this deck needs to do.
Delver was a given, obviously. Goblin Guide was a write-off from the get go; helping opponents make their land drops is pretty much the opposite of what this deck wants, so no-go there. Monastery Swiftspear was another powerful option, but apart from the odd game where it was insane, it often just got stonewalled by bigger threats or turned up too late to the party to make a difference. Hooting Mandrills is undoubtedly strong, and I love the card, but it didn’t quite fit my criteria here. It can’t be cast turn one, it cannibalises the yard for Goyf, and requires the deck to run what I consider to be subpar cantrips to fuel it. Now I’m aware the decks that go in that direction are worth playing and obviously have the potential to be very successful, however, that was old ground and I was looking for something different. More importantly, those decks still suffer the weaknesses mentioned above, and the whole purpose of my brewing was to address those weaknesses.
So the two cards I had my eye on were Gnarlwood Dryad and Narnam Renegade. Both these cards had potentially good rates, and deathtouch goes a long way to helping with the deck’s inability to handle large resolved threats. The starting point was simple, I would be greedy and attempt to make the one with a high power threshold and better topdeck potential work. I was returning to Delirium, and I honestly was not entirely convinced it would pan out given past attempts to make it work in the deck. However, Delirium opened up the possibility of trying Traverse the Ulvenwald again, which I’ve always felt had the potential to ease the tension between threat and spell density in Delver.dec, and the Dryad had another property that made another threat candidate look even more appealing: its Horror subtype.
I’d played a fair amount with the UR Pyromancer/Thing deck that the Vieren brothers debuted at PT rivals of Ixalan and was fully aware of the power of Thing in the Ice in creature match ups. The insane tempo swing of bouncing your opponent’s board and leaving yourself with a 7/8 was often enough to win games on its own, particularly when you’ve already forced your opponent to exhaust their removal on your other cheap threats. The Thing also did a pretty good job of walling a lot of modern’s early threats, and allowed you to dump him and then win just by interacting with your opponent. The Evacuation effect provided the deck with much a much needed answer to fatties and hexproof creatures, and the fact the Dryad stuck around after the bounce was just gravy. It was also important to me that Thing wasn’t dependant on the graveyard, and it’s pretty handy that it also pitches to Disrupting Shoal. Oh yeah, as a side note, bouncing Snapcaster Mage with Thing is great. Bouncing Delver doesn’t matter, because the board is empty apart from your 7/8 and 3/3 Horrors.
The combination of Dryad and Thing had pretty much covered the hard removal issue. The deck was now cable of stalling large creatures, and the act of bouncing them via Thing with a Dryad on board often felt like a combo finish, providing enough damage to finish the opponent in a single turn or take them deep into burn range, making the win almost inevitable.
In terms of the rest of the threat suite, I was keen to try Traverse, because I would already be attempting to reach Delirium for Dryad, it upped the threat count with eating into the Delver’s Instant/Sorcery count, and I was also excited at the possibility of having access to Bedlam Reveller in the main without it being a liability. It also provides flexibility to choose between your various threats, helps you hit your land drops, and triggers Thing. Even when Delirium is turned off, finding a basic is often surprisingly relevant in a deck that boards in Blood Moon, and it really helps smooth out one-landers. Traverse also allows a few silver bullets out of the board in games where grave hate won’t be an issue. Combining Snapcaster and Reveller with the Traverse plan (and a couple of Snags for good measure) gave the deck the ability to grind with the best of them, making 15 creatures feel like 20+. It also provides a Demonic Tutor type effect to some lines of play. Need a bolt? Traverse-Snap-Bolt. Need a particular creature? Snap-Traverse. Empty hand? Traverse-Reveller. Short on land/need fixing? Traverse. Need to blockers/to grind? Traverse-Snap-Traverse-Snap-Traverse-Reveller etc… You get the picture…
Now we just add a Goyf or two for pure efficiency, and we’re pretty much there. I don’t want too many because I prefer Thing in my two slot for these reasons:
a) It pitches to shoal.
b) The bounce effect is crucial to the way the deck’s late game works.
c) It stops the deck folding to graveyard hate. Opponents who take a turn to play RIP get punished by Delver and Thing.
(Recently, I’m thinking the second Goyf may be necessary, either over the fourth Dryad, or moving Reveller to the board).
All good right? Yup, just one thing. Delirium. I’m sure many of you know that it’s not as easy to achieve as we’d like. The good news is that, although it’s not ideal, we’re usually okay with waiting a turn or two before Delirium allows us to really turn up the heat, because Dryad and Traverse both do relevant things against a lot of the field without it - trading with creatures/removal, and fixing our mana etc. Also, we’re not actually super reliant on it for the deck to function. And while it’s not trivial to achieve, it’s also not too difficult. We have options:
1. Mishra’s Bauble. I tried this, of course, and it’s more or less fine with Delver thanks to the pseudo scry effect in combination with fetches, but it was miserable with Thing. Not for me, thanks. EDIT: This card also defies the point of Traverse, which is to increase the threat count and lower the land count without cutting instants and sorceries.
2. Tarfire. This is A+, and honestly almost all that is required. I think 2-3 is fine. It has the added benefit of pumping goyf and the extra burn is relevant when you send your Thing across and empty board. FWIW, I don’t miss Forked Bolt against Lingering Souls and co, thanks to Thing taking care of them.
3. Thought Scour. Instant speed is nice, but a bit too pot luck, perhaps. It has a reasonable chance of dumping or drawing you into whatever you need for Delirium, but it’s not the most reliable. Being blue for Shoal is relevant if you’re on that plan though.
4. Faithless Looting. This is probably the second best pure enabler, as it’s cheap and we get to select exactly what hits the yard. It is card disadvantage, but this deck has a lot of ways to generate CA and we can often dump lands thanks to Traverse.
5. Chart a Course. Ah Chart, you sly old dog, is there nothing you can’t do? I love this card here, it’s straight up card advantage when you need it, it’s blue for Shoal, and the secret mode (draw 2, discard 1) really shores up Delirium. I like the added flexibility over Looting, and for this reason it’s been my pick after Tarfire up to this point. It’s the other part of the Snapcaster engine that allows this deck overrun control. Just remember to sandbag lands.
6. Obviously fetchlands. Duh…
The rest of the deck is fairly standard, Serum Visions and Bolt are obviously maxed out, and the choice between various counters and sideboard cards is a matter of personal preference. I personally love Shoal. It does work against the evils of turn one Vials and Chalices that can cause this deck serious problems, and it allows Thing to be flipped on turn 3. The card disadvantage is picked up elsewhere in the list and the tempo gain can be huge for the deck, plus, if it’s dead, just dump it Chart or Reveller, NBD. I think Spell Pierce is worth it in some number, even if it’s dead in some match ups. I have used it to flip Thing by targeting my own spell and refusing to pay, so the fact that it’s at the very least a one mana instant can be relevant. On the mana base, particularly Botanical Sanctum over Spirebluff Canal, we need more green than red thanks to Traverse and Dryad, and Scooze from the board, and I wanted painless choke-proof blue green source to provide resilience to attacks on our mana base. The basic mountain is definitely needed for traverse to have maximum colour fixing before Delirium.
1. Thing in the Ice is a ridiculous magic card. It covers a lot of bases in the main deck that we otherwise have to rely on boarding for, such as sweeper effects and dealing with fatties.
2. Dryad and Thing really mess with aggro decks.
3. The combination of Traverse, Snapcaster, Reveller, Chart, and bounce effects lends the deck serious grind potential.
4. A quick clock coupled with disruption generally makes combo a cakewalk.
5. Delver and Thing stop graveyard hate from wrecking us, and the delirium cards still do relevant things without four types in the yard.
This deck has the ability to handle everything that is thrown at it, offers complex decision trees, has a high number of flex spots, and rewards tight play and deck building. I believe I have made huge improvements to the weaknesses I mentioned at the start of this post, however, the list is nowhere near perfect, and I would appreciate input from anyone willing to give it a spin. Though I'm happy to field any questions, Please try it out and see what you think before making assumptions - I was pleasantly surprised by its speed and resilience.
Apologies for formatting, sent from my phone. Been running RUG Delver/Horrors through the tournament practice room online, and been liking it a lot. Played 5 matches, Eldrazi, UW control, Humans, Affinity, and Jund. Haven't dropped a single match yet. Even beat UW control after they resolved two Supreme Verdicts, two Jaces, and Teferi.
Can't remember the exact list now, will post later, but I think the creature base was:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Gnarlwood Dryad
3 Thing in the Ice
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Bedlam Reveller
1 Tarmogoyf
Both Traverse and Shoal, 26 blue count, I think, and 3 Tarfire. Taken a while but I feel like I've managed to balance this combination, though the deck is not completely streamlined yet.
Probs need to go up to two Goyfs, and move Reveler to the board.
Dryad and Thing make creature strats a joke, Traverse/Snap/Reveler bury control while they're trying to kill our other threats, and Goyf/Delver provide quick clocks for combo. I was pleasantly surprised at how both resilient and fast the deck has been.
People boarded in grave hate and promptly died to Thing and Delver
Been a blast to play.
Do you know what? Even if this set was just ok instead of a rip off, it wouldn't be good enough. It's the 25th Anniversary of the game; Wizards should be blowing us away with an amazing line of products that remind us just how great the game is, how much fun it can be, and how much they value us as their customers. Instead, they just rolled a greasy hot turd of a product in some Jace glitter and tried to convince us it was the absolute nuts. Way to go, Wizards
It seems to me that the biggest problem in terms of value isn't the overall EV, it's the lack of distribution of value throughout the set. Most of the the money is tied up in a handful of chase mythics and a few decent rares, so while the mean average value of a pack might not be too bad, the median average is going to be awful, resulting in a lot of 'feels bad' pack openings.
The other issue with value is that a few of the really expensive cards are only expensive because of scarcity. I mean how sought after is Imperial Recruiter? It only sees play in a couple of fringe Legacy decks. There's a real possibility that this set's EV tanks once product is opened because of this.
On another note, I would have loved to have seen just a few more cards that really defined their respective eras or were known as powerful cards for their time. Things like Fires of Yavimaya, Psychotog, Vampiric Tutor, Shivan Drgaon or Serendib Efreet (bonus points for giving it a green frame). Or for set with tonnes of cycling, Astral Slide. They should have avoided cards that people will open and think, 'When did THAT ever see play?'.
On the other hand, the format looks like a fun draft experience. I'm just not sure the it's worth the cost.
I've moved away from Monastery Swiftspear for the time being. It spent a lot of time just getting walled by bigger creatures, and while there have been a handful of games where the damage output has been absurd, there were even more games where it just didn't do anything. I wanted something that could at least survive burn based removal, so I'm trying Thing in the Ice. That card really does a lot for the deck, providing a maindeck sweeper effect, a decent blocker for aggro matches, a huge game winning threat, and upping the blue count for Disrupting Shoal. Bouncing our own creatures is not as much as a problem as it would seem, since we're generally in a good spot if we can transform Thing. EDIT: This could change again if Jace changes the meta significantly.
I cut a Vapor Snag and Remand for Roast and Abrade because I wanted more permanent answers, and the incidental burn was less relevant after cutting Swiftspear. Roast helps answer bigger threats and Abrade is just generally more useful against Lantern, Affinity, and Tron etc. It's nice to have a maindeck answer to Chalice of the Void. These are really the main flex slots for the deck in my view.
The fourth Swiftspear slot and singleton Deprive made way for a pair of Cryptic Commands. What can I say? Cryptic is fantastic, it just does everything. It's only a two-of, unfortunately, because the deck's land count is too low to support any more than that (Deprive, although sweet, is too much of a set back when trying to get to Cryptic mana), and upping the land count to play four just turns the deck into UR Pyromancer, which is not where I want to be. I like the aggression of Delver, and Shoal is a lot of fun to play with. We sacrifice some grinding capability for early game aggression and the cheapest interaction possible. I think that's definitely worth it, and it suits my play style down to the ground.
I'm really happy to be winning lots of games with a Delver deck in Modern, and when the it's firing on all cylinders, it feels almost like a Legacy deck. I think it's really powerful.
You're right about Reveler, of course, I guess I love that card a little too much, heh. It's just I feel like I want something splashy at the top of the curve. I've been playing with Vieren's list since the pro tour, and the deck is great at grinding out incremental advantage, and obviously suspending Vision early allows you to bury the opponent in card advantage. However, if there's one thing I feel the list lacks, it's a late game hay-maker; something to just draw off the top and smash your opponent into the ground with. I understand the point of the list was to just focus on the cheap spells-matter creatures, but there a re definitely some flex spots, and I would really like a powerful finisher. I wouldn't want to go over four mana at the top of the curve though, since in general playing multiple spells a turn is important to the deck.
Yeah I was aware that Peter built the deck, but given Pascals finish, it'd be good to hear what both have to say about the deck going forward.
On Shoal, I think if you're going to run it, you need ways to recoup the lost card advantage from using its alt cost. Chart a Course (with Pyromancer) is kind of the reason we can run Shoal now since it addresses that very issue, but Snapcaster is an important part of the card advantage engine, and chaining Snaps and Charts is a good way to pull ahead in longer games. It also helps to have a flash creature to attack out of nowhere and turn Chart on. And of course Snap-Bolt-Snap is still great. However, I don't think not having Snapcaster necessarily means you can't run shoal, it's just that you would either need another source of CA, possibly something like Augur of Bolas, or maybe try Titi and just go for a 'protect the queen' style of play. I mention those two cards because I'm also thinking about the number of 2-drops for Shoal's alt cost.
This comment is why I wish we had a like button.
Would love Counterspell.
Fact or Fiction would be nice.
Stifle is probably too unfun.
Careful Study would probably make Izzet Phoenix tear 0.
Cataclysm could be cool in a white weenie list with
Other sweet cards for my tastes:
Btw, Deathrite Shaman is already in a modern legal set and banned in the format. My understanding is that they're not including cards from modern legal sets.
Denial probably takes too long to come online in this deck to be very useful. Izzet Charm seems versatile but it's horribly inefficient.
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
Creature (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Thing in the Ice
2 Bedlam Reveler
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Faithless Looting
4 Serum Visions
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Instant (16)
4 Disrupting Shoal
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Vapor Snag
1 Logic Knot
1 Mana Leak
1 Tarfire
Enchantment (1)
1 Seal of Fire
Artifact (1)
1 Mishra's Bauble
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Dire Fleet Daredevil
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Negate
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Engineered Explosives
A summary of my findings:
I personally think Thing's evacuation effect does some serious heavy lifting for this deck, and does a much better job of getting past blockers and dealing with flyers than Pyro can. You can run both since bouncing your tokens doesn't matter too much when you have a 7/8 on an empty board.
That said, I'm not sure I'd want to run it with Mandrills. It could be ok, since generally flipping it with a counter up creates a winning game state, but getting stuck with an uncastable Hoots after Thing is removed would be pretty rough. This is part of the reason I was keen to revisit Gnarlwood Dryad and hence Delirium.
I'm still not sure how important Traverse really is to my build. It certainly helps smooth land drops, increase threat density, and allows bullets like Reveler and Ghost Quarter, but it does feel slow, takes blue slots from the Shoal count, and the Reveler package may just be redundant while running Chart a Course.
Before, I was running 3 Tarfire and 3 Thought Scour, and 3 Chart. So the first thing I'm interested in checking is whether the new delirium enablers are sufficient.
I ran YP for quite a while in various decks, and it's a great card, and does fill a similar role to Thing, but Thing is Bolt proof and resets the board (and Snapcaster). The downside is it's weaker to hard spot removal, and if you don't find four spells, it does nothing, not that that's been an issue so far, but there will definitely be games where it is (Looting does work there).
I want plenty of one drops because I think the deck functions optimally when it drops a threat on turn one, and I'd rather force my opponent to spend their one mana removal spell on my one drops than on my two drops. Can't have THEM gaining tempo advantage now, can we? I mean, that's just not cricket.
The deatchtouch has been super useful. I had a game where my Dryads stopped two Platinum Emporiums until I could flip Thing and kill them on the spot. Opponent just couldn't attack, all I had to do was counter removal spells until I won. Same thing with other fatties. It's like, cool 9/9 Knight of the Reliquary bro, shame it'll die to Dryad if you attack. Flip Thing, you're dead. So I guess it fills a similar role to Young Pyromancer in that regard, just for one less mana, better topdecks, only one hit of trample damage and a keyword that can act as pseudo evasion. Oh and it synergises with Thing. EDIT: obviously the grave hate is real, and it has a lower ceiling, but one mana. One!
Right then.
So, apologies for my last post being so messy. I've now taken the time to put my thoughts down properly, and although I haven't discussed the matches I've played in detail, I have mentioned the odd interaction that I've come across that I think is worth pointing out. Fair warning, the post is quite long:
I have been looking at RUG Delver as an archetype over the past few months and pondering how to address some of its traditional weaknesses:
1. Difficulty in dealing with large resolved threats due, primarily, to a lack of hard removal.
2. A tendency to run out of gas in longer games against grindier decks.
3. The need for a high threat density in many match ups conflicting with the need for a high instant and sorcery count for Delver.
4. Splash damage from graveyard hate neutering the deck.
I wanted to find a configuration that solved or at least partially remedied these issues whilst keeping the deck centred on the tempo plan. I wanted to be able to come out of the gates running, apply pressure and disrupt my opponents from the first turn, but I also wanted the deck to be capable of going long, grinding out my opponents, and dealing with their late game plans. I wanted it to be resilient to hate to boot. I wanted a deck that had it all.
With these lofty ambitions in mind, I began my theory crafting. I knew that I wanted to start with two play sets of one drops. Real one drops; the kind that can be cast on turn one without assistance. The reasoning behind this was fairly simple; I wanted to be able to cast a one drop turn one and hold up counter magic, and to have the choice between casting a one drop and spell or a two drop on turn two. This is where tempo wants to be. Drop a threat immediately then sit back and disrupt. I didn't want to be spending games waiting until turn three to do this. I also figured this would take some of the sting out of losing the coin toss - I would still be able to drop a threat and disrupt my opponent’s crucial third turn on the draw, and that’s exactly what this deck needs to do.
Delver was a given, obviously. Goblin Guide was a write-off from the get go; helping opponents make their land drops is pretty much the opposite of what this deck wants, so no-go there. Monastery Swiftspear was another powerful option, but apart from the odd game where it was insane, it often just got stonewalled by bigger threats or turned up too late to the party to make a difference. Hooting Mandrills is undoubtedly strong, and I love the card, but it didn’t quite fit my criteria here. It can’t be cast turn one, it cannibalises the yard for Goyf, and requires the deck to run what I consider to be subpar cantrips to fuel it. Now I’m aware the decks that go in that direction are worth playing and obviously have the potential to be very successful, however, that was old ground and I was looking for something different. More importantly, those decks still suffer the weaknesses mentioned above, and the whole purpose of my brewing was to address those weaknesses.
So the two cards I had my eye on were Gnarlwood Dryad and Narnam Renegade. Both these cards had potentially good rates, and deathtouch goes a long way to helping with the deck’s inability to handle large resolved threats. The starting point was simple, I would be greedy and attempt to make the one with a high power threshold and better topdeck potential work. I was returning to Delirium, and I honestly was not entirely convinced it would pan out given past attempts to make it work in the deck. However, Delirium opened up the possibility of trying Traverse the Ulvenwald again, which I’ve always felt had the potential to ease the tension between threat and spell density in Delver.dec, and the Dryad had another property that made another threat candidate look even more appealing: its Horror subtype.
I’d played a fair amount with the UR Pyromancer/Thing deck that the Vieren brothers debuted at PT rivals of Ixalan and was fully aware of the power of Thing in the Ice in creature match ups. The insane tempo swing of bouncing your opponent’s board and leaving yourself with a 7/8 was often enough to win games on its own, particularly when you’ve already forced your opponent to exhaust their removal on your other cheap threats. The Thing also did a pretty good job of walling a lot of modern’s early threats, and allowed you to dump him and then win just by interacting with your opponent. The Evacuation effect provided the deck with much a much needed answer to fatties and hexproof creatures, and the fact the Dryad stuck around after the bounce was just gravy. It was also important to me that Thing wasn’t dependant on the graveyard, and it’s pretty handy that it also pitches to Disrupting Shoal. Oh yeah, as a side note, bouncing Snapcaster Mage with Thing is great. Bouncing Delver doesn’t matter, because the board is empty apart from your 7/8 and 3/3 Horrors.
The combination of Dryad and Thing had pretty much covered the hard removal issue. The deck was now cable of stalling large creatures, and the act of bouncing them via Thing with a Dryad on board often felt like a combo finish, providing enough damage to finish the opponent in a single turn or take them deep into burn range, making the win almost inevitable.
In terms of the rest of the threat suite, I was keen to try Traverse, because I would already be attempting to reach Delirium for Dryad, it upped the threat count with eating into the Delver’s Instant/Sorcery count, and I was also excited at the possibility of having access to Bedlam Reveller in the main without it being a liability. It also provides flexibility to choose between your various threats, helps you hit your land drops, and triggers Thing. Even when Delirium is turned off, finding a basic is often surprisingly relevant in a deck that boards in Blood Moon, and it really helps smooth out one-landers. Traverse also allows a few silver bullets out of the board in games where grave hate won’t be an issue. Combining Snapcaster and Reveller with the Traverse plan (and a couple of Snags for good measure) gave the deck the ability to grind with the best of them, making 15 creatures feel like 20+. It also provides a Demonic Tutor type effect to some lines of play. Need a bolt? Traverse-Snap-Bolt. Need a particular creature? Snap-Traverse. Empty hand? Traverse-Reveller. Short on land/need fixing? Traverse. Need to blockers/to grind? Traverse-Snap-Traverse-Snap-Traverse-Reveller etc… You get the picture…
Now we just add a Goyf or two for pure efficiency, and we’re pretty much there. I don’t want too many because I prefer Thing in my two slot for these reasons:
a) It pitches to shoal.
b) The bounce effect is crucial to the way the deck’s late game works.
c) It stops the deck folding to graveyard hate. Opponents who take a turn to play RIP get punished by Delver and Thing.
So this is where I ended up:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Gnarlwood Dryad
3 Thing in the Ice
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Bedlam Reveller
1 Tarmogoyf
(Recently, I’m thinking the second Goyf may be necessary, either over the fourth Dryad, or moving Reveller to the board).
All good right? Yup, just one thing. Delirium. I’m sure many of you know that it’s not as easy to achieve as we’d like. The good news is that, although it’s not ideal, we’re usually okay with waiting a turn or two before Delirium allows us to really turn up the heat, because Dryad and Traverse both do relevant things against a lot of the field without it - trading with creatures/removal, and fixing our mana etc. Also, we’re not actually super reliant on it for the deck to function. And while it’s not trivial to achieve, it’s also not too difficult. We have options:
1. Mishra’s Bauble. I tried this, of course, and it’s more or less fine with Delver thanks to the pseudo scry effect in combination with fetches, but it was miserable with Thing. Not for me, thanks. EDIT: This card also defies the point of Traverse, which is to increase the threat count and lower the land count without cutting instants and sorceries.
2. Tarfire. This is A+, and honestly almost all that is required. I think 2-3 is fine. It has the added benefit of pumping goyf and the extra burn is relevant when you send your Thing across and empty board. FWIW, I don’t miss Forked Bolt against Lingering Souls and co, thanks to Thing taking care of them.
3. Thought Scour. Instant speed is nice, but a bit too pot luck, perhaps. It has a reasonable chance of dumping or drawing you into whatever you need for Delirium, but it’s not the most reliable. Being blue for Shoal is relevant if you’re on that plan though.
4. Faithless Looting. This is probably the second best pure enabler, as it’s cheap and we get to select exactly what hits the yard. It is card disadvantage, but this deck has a lot of ways to generate CA and we can often dump lands thanks to Traverse.
5. Chart a Course. Ah Chart, you sly old dog, is there nothing you can’t do? I love this card here, it’s straight up card advantage when you need it, it’s blue for Shoal, and the secret mode (draw 2, discard 1) really shores up Delirium. I like the added flexibility over Looting, and for this reason it’s been my pick after Tarfire up to this point. It’s the other part of the Snapcaster engine that allows this deck overrun control. Just remember to sandbag lands.
6. Obviously fetchlands. Duh…
The current configuration is:
2 Faithless Looting
2 Chart a Course
9 Fetches
The rest of the deck is fairly standard, Serum Visions and Bolt are obviously maxed out, and the choice between various counters and sideboard cards is a matter of personal preference. I personally love Shoal. It does work against the evils of turn one Vials and Chalices that can cause this deck serious problems, and it allows Thing to be flipped on turn 3. The card disadvantage is picked up elsewhere in the list and the tempo gain can be huge for the deck, plus, if it’s dead, just dump it Chart or Reveller, NBD. I think Spell Pierce is worth it in some number, even if it’s dead in some match ups. I have used it to flip Thing by targeting my own spell and refusing to pay, so the fact that it’s at the very least a one mana instant can be relevant. On the mana base, particularly Botanical Sanctum over Spirebluff Canal, we need more green than red thanks to Traverse and Dryad, and Scooze from the board, and I wanted painless choke-proof blue green source to provide resilience to attacks on our mana base. The basic mountain is definitely needed for traverse to have maximum colour fixing before Delirium.
It’s worth noting that Traverse allows silver bullet lands and creatures out of the board. I hope to experiment with Dire Fleet Daredevil, Ramunap Excavator, Reclamation Sage, Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, Spellskite, Scavenging Ooze, Huntmaster, and Fulminator Mage. Don’t forget to pack your copies of Blood Moon, Ancient Grudge, Destructive Revelry, and Ceremonious Rejection.
My current list:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Gnarlwood Dryad
3 Thing in the Ice
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Bedlam Reveller
1 Tarmogoyf
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Faithless Looting
2 Spell Pierce
2 Tarfire
2 Vapor Snag
2 Chart a Course
2 Mana Leak
Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Botanical Sanctum
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Dispel
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Pyroclasm
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Ghost Quarter
TL;DR:
1. Thing in the Ice is a ridiculous magic card. It covers a lot of bases in the main deck that we otherwise have to rely on boarding for, such as sweeper effects and dealing with fatties.
2. Dryad and Thing really mess with aggro decks.
3. The combination of Traverse, Snapcaster, Reveller, Chart, and bounce effects lends the deck serious grind potential.
4. A quick clock coupled with disruption generally makes combo a cakewalk.
5. Delver and Thing stop graveyard hate from wrecking us, and the delirium cards still do relevant things without four types in the yard.
This deck has the ability to handle everything that is thrown at it, offers complex decision trees, has a high number of flex spots, and rewards tight play and deck building. I believe I have made huge improvements to the weaknesses I mentioned at the start of this post, however, the list is nowhere near perfect, and I would appreciate input from anyone willing to give it a spin. Though I'm happy to field any questions, Please try it out and see what you think before making assumptions - I was pleasantly surprised by its speed and resilience.
Can't remember the exact list now, will post later, but I think the creature base was:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Gnarlwood Dryad
3 Thing in the Ice
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Bedlam Reveller
1 Tarmogoyf
Both Traverse and Shoal, 26 blue count, I think, and 3 Tarfire. Taken a while but I feel like I've managed to balance this combination, though the deck is not completely streamlined yet.
Probs need to go up to two Goyfs, and move Reveler to the board.
Dryad and Thing make creature strats a joke, Traverse/Snap/Reveler bury control while they're trying to kill our other threats, and Goyf/Delver provide quick clocks for combo. I was pleasantly surprised at how both resilient and fast the deck has been.
People boarded in grave hate and promptly died to Thing and Delver
Been a blast to play.
The other issue with value is that a few of the really expensive cards are only expensive because of scarcity. I mean how sought after is Imperial Recruiter? It only sees play in a couple of fringe Legacy decks. There's a real possibility that this set's EV tanks once product is opened because of this.
On another note, I would have loved to have seen just a few more cards that really defined their respective eras or were known as powerful cards for their time. Things like Fires of Yavimaya, Psychotog, Vampiric Tutor, Shivan Drgaon or Serendib Efreet (bonus points for giving it a green frame). Or for set with tonnes of cycling, Astral Slide. They should have avoided cards that people will open and think, 'When did THAT ever see play?'.
On the other hand, the format looks like a fun draft experience. I'm just not sure the it's worth the cost.
Not playing them in Delver, it's a little top heavy for us.
EDIT:
I just thought I'd share my current list. It's ended up as a kind of hybrid between Delver and UR Pyromancer:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Thing in the Ice
Cantrip (12)
4 Chart a Course
4 Opt
4 Serum Visions
Counter (9)
4 Disrupting Shoal
2 Cryptic Command
2 Mana Leak
1 Logic Knot
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Abrade
1 Roast
1 Vapor Snag
Land (18)
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Blood Moon
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Entrancing Melody
1 Dispel
I'm really happy to be winning lots of games with a Delver deck in Modern, and when the it's firing on all cylinders, it feels almost like a Legacy deck. I think it's really powerful.
Yeah I was aware that Peter built the deck, but given Pascals finish, it'd be good to hear what both have to say about the deck going forward.
On Shoal, I think if you're going to run it, you need ways to recoup the lost card advantage from using its alt cost. Chart a Course (with Pyromancer) is kind of the reason we can run Shoal now since it addresses that very issue, but Snapcaster is an important part of the card advantage engine, and chaining Snaps and Charts is a good way to pull ahead in longer games. It also helps to have a flash creature to attack out of nowhere and turn Chart on. And of course Snap-Bolt-Snap is still great. However, I don't think not having Snapcaster necessarily means you can't run shoal, it's just that you would either need another source of CA, possibly something like Augur of Bolas, or maybe try Titi and just go for a 'protect the queen' style of play. I mention those two cards because I'm also thinking about the number of 2-drops for Shoal's alt cost.