I have thought about running that mana base as part of a BUG list that runs Glistener Elf, Blighted Agent, Plague Stinger and Phyrexian Crusader. The deck would rarely get color screwed, and could easily support the double black cost of crusader. But it does seem to be taking a pile of damage from land which is risky. It would be great if someone tried it though and reported back, I just don't have the courage to take that much damage from land lol.
So I'm thinking of building this deck together, seems like it'd be pretty cool.
Something new to try out...do you guys think it's worth it to build, price wise as well?
If you go mono green cathedral, which is doing well at the moment, the only money card is Inkmoth Nexus which makes it ridiculously cheap to build, so well worth it.
If you want to go the UGx route, then it gets pricey and you really have to make sure you are going to enjoy this style of deck, which takes a while to get good at playing well. Although, you can always use the fetches and Noble Hierarchs in other decks if it doesn't work out for you.
I think there are good answers to most problems in what ever version people chose to use, even in the case of instant enchantment removal, there are instant responses that can ensure our guy and remaining attached auras stay in play if blocked, such as Boros Charm, Selesnya Charm, Ghor-clan Rampager and Ajani's Presence.
However, the big problem that I see is Celestial Flare, which is becoming very popular in Wx side boards, even main deck in some UW control lists. It is much harder to play around than other sacrifice cards, and it will regularly cost the deck the consistency it needs to make top 8s and win big tournaments. Keep in mind that Celestial Flare can be cast during the End of Combat step, so even if you attacked with a second creature, if it died during combat they can still take down your main guy after damage. This card needs answers, which seem to be either counter spells like Dispel and Swan Song, or discard such as Thoughtseize and Duress.
The list that I posted is probably going down the wrong track with the Judge's Familiars, and most of the counters should probably be in the side board, but I think the basic idea is there for what could be a competitive Bant Hexproof deck. Also, I think Junk Hexproof has similar potential with discard.
I think that now there are more Hexproof creatures, the deck will have a surge in popularity and so will the hate for it.
OK, so after extensive testing and also watching other people play the deck, I have to conclude that this deck needs answers to Celestial Flare and instant enchantment removal such as Deicide.
Straight out sacrifice cards like Devour Flesh are OK because you can play around them, but Celestial Flare is brutal and seems to be increasing in number. Also instant enchantment removal is causing real issues because an attack that seemed fine, turns into a nightmare when they remove a key enchantment then kill your guy with blockers.
The deck needs answers to these problems, and the only way I can see that happening it to go back to the deck's roots ... back to Bant! Making the 3rd color blue introduces cards like Dispel and Swan Song that can provide real answers to these problems. Also, Madcap Skills can be replaced with Aqueous Form. The deck would lose a bit of speed but would be far more consistent.
Yeah it is quite amazing how good the mono green list is at closing out games with Cathedral of War and Pendelhaven, as your tiny infect creatures start to get much bigger the longer the game goes. It doesn't seem to run out of gas so easily, and I am finding you can quite often just keep mana open to protect your creature and let the land buffs do the work.
Livewire Lash from the early lists has been replaced now by 2 Dismember to help with main deck Spellskites and Melira, Sylvok Outcasts, and is good at disrupting the splinter twin and pod combos, which are everywhere at the moment.
Here's a fun play for you all. I have a Rancor'd Glistener Elf, and my Tron opponent is at 7 Poison counters ... He casts Pyroclasm, so I Nature's Claim the Rancor and activate Pendelhaven to save it. On the next turn, I replay Rancor and swing for lethal.
Nice play! I will have to remember that trick. I have on occasion used Nature's Claim to gain life by destroying my own Rancor to survive for one more turn and then gone on to win.
Still Struggling with this deck...the inconsistent draws are killing me...I'd say I only win about 50% of matches...even against decks I know I should kill...what is everyone's experiences? Is the G/W build better? Love this deck but I may have to quit it as it's just not getting me the win.
Is it the three color mana base that is causing issues? Or perhaps too many scry lands? Are you running 4 Mana Confluence?
I have 1 problem with a deck archtype called robots.
...
so just to be clear, everyone on the same page. dismember cannot target etched champion, you can't block it, you can't gut shot it
Just a note you can block Etched Champion with any of your artifact creatures, including Inkmoth Nexus, since they are colorless.
The main strategy with Affinity is you want to hold on until you can make one big swing with Apostle's Blessing, since it can give your creature protection from artifacts making it unblockable. Also, putting a Rancor on Ichorclaw Myr can quite often provide a way through, since the myr gets +2/+2 when blocked. It is also vital to remember that you can use Vines of Vastwood on their creature to stop the counters from Arcbound Ravager when it dies, and you can even stop Cranial Plating from being equipped to a creature this way too (use only in an emergency though!).
It can be a tough match up, but I find that I stomp Affinity easily sometimes and they get me easily at other times, which is quite often the case with aggro vs. aggro match ups.
So with the new tools available is the GW version of the deck going to be better or equal compared with the the Naya version, or is Naya still just going to be better?
I am going with GW at this point for consistency, but I don't want that to be a budget decision, I want to play the best version ... will it be GW or Naya?
I thought the idea of extra artifact hate was for Chalice of the Void set to 1, if that is the case then Naturalize is probably the best idea for mono green. Of course Abrupt Decay is probably the best answer in BUG or GB.
One issue with Grafdigger's Cage is that it doesn't help against Living End, since all the creatures go to exile first before entering the battlefield. It is brilliant in particular against pod though, which seems very relevant in the current modern climate. I will probably be adding 2 to the side board again to see how it goes. I still think Tormod's Crypt is best for the graveyard hate slots in infect, since it doesn't cost any mana compared with cards like Relic of Progenitus.
On the Guttural Response topic, I am surprised it doesn't see play in infect. Even back in standard infect I used to run Autumn's Veil, and that never seemed to see play in infect decks either. I don't know, there seems to be a lot of blue out there at the moment and I seem to run into Cryptic Command regularly, and piles of other blue instants ... but that might just be me
Any tips on how to wreck Splinter Twin? I've been playing casually, and if I can't GodHand or fire off an early Dismember, they usually end up winning.
I think against Splinter Twin, once they get to 3 land you have to be patient and keep mana open to disrupt the combo, or at least bluff that you can!
I have thought about running that mana base as part of a BUG list that runs Glistener Elf, Blighted Agent, Plague Stinger and Phyrexian Crusader. The deck would rarely get color screwed, and could easily support the double black cost of crusader. But it does seem to be taking a pile of damage from land which is risky. It would be great if someone tried it though and reported back, I just don't have the courage to take that much damage from land lol.
If you go mono green cathedral, which is doing well at the moment, the only money card is Inkmoth Nexus which makes it ridiculously cheap to build, so well worth it.
If you want to go the UGx route, then it gets pricey and you really have to make sure you are going to enjoy this style of deck, which takes a while to get good at playing well. Although, you can always use the fetches and Noble Hierarchs in other decks if it doesn't work out for you.
I think there are good answers to most problems in what ever version people chose to use, even in the case of instant enchantment removal, there are instant responses that can ensure our guy and remaining attached auras stay in play if blocked, such as Boros Charm, Selesnya Charm, Ghor-clan Rampager and Ajani's Presence.
However, the big problem that I see is Celestial Flare, which is becoming very popular in Wx side boards, even main deck in some UW control lists. It is much harder to play around than other sacrifice cards, and it will regularly cost the deck the consistency it needs to make top 8s and win big tournaments. Keep in mind that Celestial Flare can be cast during the End of Combat step, so even if you attacked with a second creature, if it died during combat they can still take down your main guy after damage. This card needs answers, which seem to be either counter spells like Dispel and Swan Song, or discard such as Thoughtseize and Duress.
The list that I posted is probably going down the wrong track with the Judge's Familiars, and most of the counters should probably be in the side board, but I think the basic idea is there for what could be a competitive Bant Hexproof deck. Also, I think Junk Hexproof has similar potential with discard.
I think that now there are more Hexproof creatures, the deck will have a surge in popularity and so will the hate for it.
4 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Plenty
4 Mana Confluence
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Bassara Tower Archer
4 Witchstalker
4 Aqueous Form
4 Unflinching Courage
4 Gift of Orzhova
4 Swan Song
2 Ajani's Presence
4 Skylasher
2 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Ajani's Presence
2 Mending Touch
2 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
Judge's Familiar can provide some early protection while mana is tight, even from Thoughtseize, and Swan Song provides protection from nearly every hate card including Celestial Flare, Deicide, Banishing Light and Detention Sphere. Ajani's Presence handles Supreme Verdict.
It is an early list, but I think Bant is the only way to get definite answers for some of the hoser cards the deck has to endure.
Straight out sacrifice cards like Devour Flesh are OK because you can play around them, but Celestial Flare is brutal and seems to be increasing in number. Also instant enchantment removal is causing real issues because an attack that seemed fine, turns into a nightmare when they remove a key enchantment then kill your guy with blockers.
The deck needs answers to these problems, and the only way I can see that happening it to go back to the deck's roots ... back to Bant! Making the 3rd color blue introduces cards like Dispel and Swan Song that can provide real answers to these problems. Also, Madcap Skills can be replaced with Aqueous Form. The deck would lose a bit of speed but would be far more consistent.
Any thoughts on this?
Livewire Lash from the early lists has been replaced now by 2 Dismember to help with main deck Spellskites and Melira, Sylvok Outcasts, and is good at disrupting the splinter twin and pod combos, which are everywhere at the moment.
Nice play! I will have to remember that trick. I have on occasion used Nature's Claim to gain life by destroying my own Rancor to survive for one more turn and then gone on to win.
Is it the three color mana base that is causing issues? Or perhaps too many scry lands? Are you running 4 Mana Confluence?
Just a note you can block Etched Champion with any of your artifact creatures, including Inkmoth Nexus, since they are colorless.
The main strategy with Affinity is you want to hold on until you can make one big swing with Apostle's Blessing, since it can give your creature protection from artifacts making it unblockable. Also, putting a Rancor on Ichorclaw Myr can quite often provide a way through, since the myr gets +2/+2 when blocked. It is also vital to remember that you can use Vines of Vastwood on their creature to stop the counters from Arcbound Ravager when it dies, and you can even stop Cranial Plating from being equipped to a creature this way too (use only in an emergency though!).
It can be a tough match up, but I find that I stomp Affinity easily sometimes and they get me easily at other times, which is quite often the case with aggro vs. aggro match ups.
Try to get 4 Vines of Vastwood before the tournament and put them in instead of Plague Myr, that will make a big difference
Waterd has made the top 8 of a couple more premier events since then with this list:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/7051765
12 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pendelhaven
1 Blight Mamba
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
3 Necropede
2 Dismember
4 Groundswell
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Dismember
4 Nature's Claim
4 Spellskite
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Viridian Corrupter
Along with Spellskite in the side, I notice 1 Blight Mamba replacing a Necropede. Also 2 Dismember main to help against Melira and main deck Spellskites.
I am going with GW at this point for consistency, but I don't want that to be a budget decision, I want to play the best version ... will it be GW or Naya?
The results can be found here (Mono Green Infect):
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/7008898
and here (Mono Black Infect):
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/7035621
One issue with Grafdigger's Cage is that it doesn't help against Living End, since all the creatures go to exile first before entering the battlefield. It is brilliant in particular against pod though, which seems very relevant in the current modern climate. I will probably be adding 2 to the side board again to see how it goes. I still think Tormod's Crypt is best for the graveyard hate slots in infect, since it doesn't cost any mana compared with cards like Relic of Progenitus.
On the Guttural Response topic, I am surprised it doesn't see play in infect. Even back in standard infect I used to run Autumn's Veil, and that never seemed to see play in infect decks either. I don't know, there seems to be a lot of blue out there at the moment and I seem to run into Cryptic Command regularly, and piles of other blue instants ... but that might just be me
I think against Splinter Twin, once they get to 3 land you have to be patient and keep mana open to disrupt the combo, or at least bluff that you can!
Remember you can cast Vines of Vastwood on their Pestermite or Deceiver Exarch in response to them casting Splinter Twin, to disrupt the combo, along with Dismember and/or Nature's Claim from the side.