MTG Salvation

I also have a semi competitive budget build of Zegana that I am trying to get to the next step . my meta is very competitive , we play at the lgs for packs and hyper combo expensive build like sdisi artifacts, derevi stax, and tasigur control are the norm . its usually just a race to see who can combo off with force back up first . this has forced me to move away form the ramp into fatties plan some as its more ramp into fatties that also have combo or anti combo potential but it still is not quite have the oomph to hang with the uber expensive builds . I am aware that if I had the willingness to just drop the money for cryptic, force , mana drain , and possibly crypt it would be a big help, and I may but part of my fun with this deck is trying to get it there without the expensive and obvious cards, although my main win con right now is drake- dead-eye, I am thinking of adding food chain and mist hollow as that combo synergizes real well with prime speaker . the new selvala from take the crown has also played super busted so I am thinking of adding the intruder alarm to optimize her tap ability and some card s that go well with that

current prime speaker list

Survival can be overpowering and allows players to run away with games. It probably is ban worthy but I have reasons why I don't think it should be at this point.
1 power level and the socialist contract- some of you say that you have never had fun against a resolved survival. That it is so good you won't even play it in your own decks. Fine but in my experience it has been nowhere near that powerful. It often gets one or two tool boxy creatures, a lot of times an answer ( rec sage for the stasis/Stax/limo arch etc that is owning the table) then gets sweeper away with the next board wipe. I have often seen it win games but it was usually for a player that was already a head. If you play it in a casual meta and are using it to discard mana dorks to get fatties like avenger or craterhoof then the power level complaint is al little hypocritical as if you have a casual janky Timmy deck then not beating your friends casual janky Timmy deck just because they added a cheap tutor then you need to either accept your friends not casual janky Timmy only anymore and step up as well or just discourage/ house ban. On the other hand if you are in a semi competitive environment with experienced players then them getting fatties isn't that big of deal. Being able to tutor krosan cloudscraper or dark steel collosus does not Change the fact that the best threats you have are Timmy bins easily answered. If we use survival to fetch serious threat s and combo pieces then you can't say that's still any wher as scary as what a dedicated combo storm or stax or even voltron deck is capable of. Magical Christmas land scenario discard Genesis to get kokusho with greater good on the field. Tell me kokusho lock is busted but in that scenario the problem is more then just survival.
2. Bigger offenders
Edh is a format where stasis,mana crypt,staff of domination and grim monolith are legal and we're worried about a creature tutor?
Survival is way low on my list of scary cards I fill should not be allowed . Do you autoscoop to a survival. Cause I know a lot of people that do that to stasis or turn less than 3 kosilek or avacyn then Armageddon. i have beaten survival and I don't really play super competitive decks I just pack removal for multi card types and practice good threat assessment.

have you tested any against bant company or hard control decks. these are the matchups I routinely have trouble with. grind fests hurt when we have somay cards that us our life as resources. I've lost allot of games to needing just one more removal to win/ turn the corner and the drawing a anguished unmaking and being too low to use it.
my current list has been doing somewhat better and is also even better against the tokens and agro lists, which were already pretty good.
WILLL POST WHEN I GET A CHANCE

for apathy, even if it hadn't been errata, under the old rule it triggered once, during upkeep. but you still would only be able to do it once. hence the reason for the errata, to make it more clear that it was only triggering once. so the combo doesn't even work as printed, ( like say if you had R&D's secret Lair, which isn't legal in pauper but w/e)

for repeatable effects, archeomancer + bounce spells have been mentioned but I prefer capsize to peel from reality because it gives you the infinite chump blocker and getting the spell from grave every turn, which means you also get repeatable bounce with bommerang or peel variant or infinite draw with a catnip etc

for w/b/g there is daru spiritualist/task force+ nomad's en-kor +Kheru Dreadmaw= infinite life.
not very good but it is infinite life

some cards that could have been in shadows that would have made decks that are not quite playable now good enough and or takes on new versions of iconic cards from the past

playable tibalt
Tibalt, Sin Prodigy
RRR

Planeswalker- Tibalt

+1: you may exile a card from your hand,that card becomes red and can be cast with red mana. draw a card.

-2: until end of turn you may play cards exiled with tibalt.

-5: you get an emblem with whenever you cast a spell from exile draw a card and add RRR to your mana pool.

what werewolves would need to be playable this standard?
Future Alpha Cub
G

creature- wolf
~ gets +1/+0 as long as you control another wolf or werewolf
~ gets an additional +1/+0 and trample if you control a wolf and a werewolf

0/1


Ride the pack 2RG
enchantment
all humans you control become werewolves in addition to their other types and gain -werewolv flip clause
werewolves transformed via ~ have power and toughness equal to the converted mana cost of the former creature and have trample and indestructible as long as you control a wolf.

domesticated direwolf 1GG

creature-wolf
~ gets +1/+2 and has "whenever a creature dealt damage by ~ dies, draw a card" as long a you control a human.
2/1


Least Threatening Dead 1WW
creature-human spirit

flying
when blocking or becomes block by a creature, that creature gains first strike and +0/+1 until end of turn
4/4

Mad, Mad, World
legendary enchantment 2RRR
cards you own with madness may be discarded at will any time you could cast an instant
whenever you cast a spell from exile draw card

Good ideas will define lay do some testing. Tapped out was helpful for gold fishing definitely adding drift of phantasm. The deck seems way slower than I originally hoped but the consistency is their. What do you think of muddle the mixture in place of mana leak? I like using pingers over trinket Mage because the pingers can combo with free from the real as well as the peddler so I don't have add one drops for trinket Mage . But it may be better anyway. Plus it gets shield sphere.

my local shop is starting with pauper tournaments and I was thinking this would be a good list to surprise people. I think the best way to go would be either all in on the combo or more of a midrange deferder matters deck with vent sentinel as the primary wincon. my plan is all in on the combo
list

for me it was one pof my first decks for commander. this was between the first batch of precons and the second, about a year before Nekusar, the Mindrazer came out, but themes wise for all intents and purposes it was the same deck.
crosis at helm rarely ever got cast, but wheel effects plus underworld dream effects plus megrim effects plus card denial cards like phyrexian tyranny was a beast that powered through tables of competitive decks like it didn't matter. the original idea of the deck was basically the old standard owling mine deck form Kamigawa rav standard with the netsuke and howling mines. splash black for seizan, perverter of truth and underworld dream and go to town. the deck was so fun and I was flabbergasted when I just could kill the whole table easy on turns 7-9. which for our playgroup was oppressive. the deck could also be very durdly with card like sangromancer and venser's journal. but any one who has tinkered around with jankier lists of nekusar know eexactly what Im talkin about. another deck that impresses upon people why trade secrets was banned. it was in the first draft and I lost my first game when I cast it, due to everyone panicking about what it was going to do and then someone checking their phone to realize it was banned.

here would be my starting list if I was to test it
( touch of the void actually is better in here over fiery temper because instant speed offers no advantage since you go hell-bent EOT and it is slightly easier on the mana


I would also test the more expesnive options of Chandra, Flamecaller and kolaghan's command in place of the pick the brain and exquisite firecraft probably.

its not anywhere near budget friendly but If you want playable hand disruption over mind rot ( not a standard playable card) then I suggest kolagan's command. is good hand disruption adds removal to reduce your reliance on the burn and gives you answers to other artifacts such as goggles and hedron crawlers/archives. also I personally don't like touch of the void for efficiency reason. even without madness fiery temper is almost always better because its an instant, although the exile clause comes in handy.
I love the core of deck, comboing asylum visitor with avaricious dragon is genius original and powerful, but even though you do have a lot of card draw since you have to pitch your hand to the dragon every turn you want to be more aggressive, a tempo deck where you tap out every turn. not trying to win going wide with many creatures but on just being fast disruptive and gaining tempo and card advantage the longer the deck goes.
other really good options that seem to me worth testing are fiery impulse ( cheap removal that's good with a full grave) pick the brains ( budget option that still better than mind rot) transgress the mind (same)and infinite obliteration ( once there hand is empty attack there library and goblin dark-dwellers for a good secondary finisher that adds value for your full grave
for lands I would try drownyard temple as even more ramp that loses you no slots
the dragon should finish games fast and the removal; and hand disruption should keep your opponent off balance long enough to seal the deal. I may build and test this.

that GP list seem almost like a merger of our deck and control. which is fine, but the displacer seem less good in this list. but the Avacyns at four are higher impact and that is really god for the deck. the deck wants toreal max out on powerful threats to just make that it is also synergistic that much better, rarely can decks be both. they usually have to sac one for the other

I haven't posted in here yet but I play this deck at the fnm level extensively and think that there are elements of it that are really powerful, but that it is ill-positioned right now. I have had a lot of success against agro decks of all stripes, but have had some trouble against midrange grindy decks, particularly jund and the u/r goggles deck. the matchups are usually in my favor game one but end up 50% for games 2-3 the g/r and other goggles builds dont exist in my meta so I haven't tested. also I have dodged bant company every time so far so very little testing there.
my list is a little budget conscious hence only one sorin and no avacyns, but I really just think the deck needs more way to handle planeswalkers. I lose to resolved Chandra a lot

here is the list

I think the question as to the power level is best solved by proxy-ing up a playset of the beast and slotting them into a current real deck and see how the ablity plays. if its just one land a turn it does seem weak and high risk but of the creature has palyable base stats then the upside makes it pushed no matter what for ex. a 4 mana 5/5 is only decent so would ahve to have a decent upside to see play but a 3 mana 4/4 is really good and almost needs a downside just to not dominate. I think that if it was any number of lands it might be too swingy for draft just play one and then exile all your lands and now you have huge permanent threat. just some thoughts but I think it is a cool flavorful mechanic that has a good name and convelys the idea but the power level seems hard to balance.

Example Beast 2GG
Creature - Beast (C)
Territorial
4/3

if this card was in m15 would people draft it? would they play it in type 2? do you want the abilty to affect constructed or be mostly a limited mech.

they probably just paid them off or used financial pressure on the local authorities to get them to allow private investigators to intercede and then have the gov. enforce existing local laws. I mean china is communist and I don know about their laws but they probably have some ordinances about intellectual property and foreign trade that were relevant but again it was probably mostly a money thing .

Quote from NGW »

Quote from dragonjeesh »

[quote from="thnkr »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/566034-wotc-makes-official-statement-regarding?comment=2"]Why pay $10 or more for a dvd of a movie I want to buy or enroll in a monthly subscription service (netflix,or cable ) if I can just download or torrent or burn int for free. the problem is that that is stealing, and it is sending the message to the makers of the content that you dont like or care about what they do, so why should they continue to make things for you to enjoy if you are not going to thank them but instead going to steal from them.

For the record, pirating is:
1) Not theft
2) Not actually illegal

It is only illegal if you are distributing pirated material, and at that point it is copyright infringement, not theft.

Piracy also does not equate a lost sale. Just because someone pirated something does not mean that they would have purchased it if they were unable to pirate it. That's also ignoring that often times people will pirate something, and if they like it they'll then purchase it to show their support.

Then of course we get to things like having to resort to piracy to enjoy things that you otherwise would have no means to otherwise, such as shows that are not released outside of say, Japan, often times including fan-made subs so that you can fully enjoy them.

Oh, and then of course we have things like games, where on older titles that are only available through the secondhand market developers and publishers would no longer be able to receive any revenue from copies sold anyways, at that point downloading a ROM does not in fact do anything to hurt them.

</blockquote>

I may have been a tad presumptuous with my assertions, I am not fully versed in all the legal in and outs with each different case or type or pirating. My point was that I was trying to offer a better analogy to buying counterfeit cards is watching pirated movies. which as you corrected is not necessarily illegal, but often times IMHO not justifiable (ethically speaking, but again case by case I guess), and in certain cases can be met with legal ramifications particularly in the example of say if I sneak a camera into a theater and record it and then burn and sell copies of this new movie, thereby inhibiting the expected future desire of others to watch the movie in a manner in which profits reach the creators and/ r producers, which I generally find unwise to perpetrate regardless of moral or legal action.
but other situations like you said are different and beyond the perview of this thread
point is I think it is a good thing if Wotc makes obtaining overly realistic counterfeits harder, but think the article came off a little like propaganda.

I find it mildly annoying when people take things personal, not so much sore losing, if you want to sulk or rage that's fine everyone's been there about something, but dont get mad at me if my deck just flat out more competitve than yours. if you tell me before we start that your a beginner or that this deck isn't good or some other acceptable means of communication that I shouldn't play my tier 1 modern/legacy combo deck then that's fine I purposely have three skill level deck s on me most of the time, one that is (while it may actually be a pile lol) my attempt at the best/ most cutthroat deck in the given format , one that is moderately powerful with well-rounded answers but ultimately "fair" and one that is good for beginners, but if you tel me we are play-testing or if you say your going to crush me and then get mad when I curve out into pushed creatures or go off on turn four with twin then don't blame me you could not keep up. don't get mad unless the winner tries to
Also, in the same vain, it is a major peeve of mine when people purposely build bad decks or make poor in game play decisions with decent decks based on a sense of fair play (usually in edh / multiplayer) if you make card/deck/play choices with a logical rationale behind it that's fine. if you want to be the guy that tries to make chimney imp viable cool, but dont purposely build a whole deck of cards on the same power level as mudhhole just so you dont offend others at the table with your OP deck. If you want to derp and not do anything and just kind of act like the weakling during the game either as a strategy or just because you dont want to get involved or you don't understand or you like simple effects or whatever yes more power to you but

I hate when semi-experienced players make bad plays on purpose.