Well back on the topic of wallet fatigue on this product, I'm inclined to agree that people are free to elect not to buy products that don't interest them. Of course, I think there's room for some nuance about the phenomenon of wallet fatigue that's worth exploring. Seeing an increased volume of product that doesn't interest you conditions you to lose interest in the brand. The products which succeed in their appeal have to overcome this tendency, otherwise wallet fatigue is experienced. This is especially true if a number of products do partially appeal, but their relative mediocrity and overabundance interferes with evaluating priority for purchase.
Ironically, Elostirion's suggestion of increasing staffing would most likely usher in an era of the game flourishing. But it would be an investment to do so.
- FlossedBeaver
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H3RAC71TU5 posted a message on [CMR] Gavin is showing some commander legend cards next week!Posted in: The Rumor Mill -
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H3RAC71TU5 posted a message on [CMR] Gavin is showing some commander legend cards next week!Posted in: The Rumor MillQuote from Tiro of Meletis »
Oh yes, my opinions on Theros are inappropriate on a Magic the Gathering forum.Quote from H3RAC71TU5 »Well, no one cares about your feelings about Theros, either. That's never stopped you from expressing them.
I didn't say they were inappropriate, I said no one cares about them. They are only of real interest to you. You could improve your content by reflecting more carefully about the world and maybe even intellectually grasping political theory among other things. This would help you to express your feelings with more substance.
Notice how in this thread FlossedBeaver wasn't even discussing politics and people brought it up, in order to try to demonstrate his hypocrisy and then just to complain about him. The first is the logical fallacy ad hominem tu quoque, the second is irrelevant. -
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detail251 posted a message on [[BNG]] DailyMTG Previews 1/21: Whelming Wave, Phenax, Hero of Leina Tower*Sigh* Of course he mills. Had to be mill. I guess he is reasonably efficient at it at least? Bleh who am I kidding. It is an indestructible mill source so there's that. Kind of Nephalia Drownyardish, considerably worse of course but that was a fine card. Frostburn Weird is friends with Phenax.Posted in: The Rumor Mill -
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viperesque posted a message on [[BNG]] A Big TidbitWe aren't going to close the thread down right away, but we'll have no choice if this derailment keeps going. Please drop it. We'll be dealing with any individual posts that merit it shortly.Posted in: The Rumor Mill -
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GeneralArmchair posted a message on [[BNG]] A Big TidbitPosted in: The Rumor MillQuote from FlossedBeaverThe way Ephara is worded, she must either count hybrid mana twice, or she is inventing a new subset of devotions that do not presently exist in the comprehensive rules. As things stand now, there are still only 5 colors in Magic, which means there are only 5 devotions. Until they change 700.5 to reflect every color combination, there is no such devotion as White-Blue. There is only White and Blue. A hybrid mana symbol that is White and Blue is not White-Blue - it counts as both, but it is not a unique color unto itself. Both the rules and the mothership have born this out time and again. The decision to count hybrid mana only once is completely arbitrary without an accompanying rules change, hence my disagreement with the article. Call me childish, petty, rigid, or whatever else you like, it doesn't change the fact that the article contradicts the existing rules - which are very clear - without so much as a modicum of explanation. The fact that people take this as carte blanche to thumb their nose at me, despite the fact that I was never wrong, is only breeding animosity and perpetuating a stale argument.
Given the way the rules work, there is no other legitimate way to interpret the text on Ephara. Your move, Wizards.
This. I imagine we'll be seeing an update for devotion in the comprehensive rules soon.
This certainly isn't the first time they've had to redo how the rules work in order to make a set mechanic work the way they intend. Just in recent memory, they had to make an exception to rule 608.3a just so that bestow creatures wouldn't get 2-for-1'd when the host is made illegal prior to resolution.
Until that exception was made, players were concerned about getting their bestow creatures 2-for-1'd. They were rightly concerned. With the old comprehensive rules, THEY WOULD HAVE been 2-for-1'd. WotC did not want bestow to be so vulnerable to a 2-for-1, so they updated the comprehensive rules with an exception.
Quote from Flame EffigyThey already made their move last night.
Want the easiest way to view this? Because at this point you're just being difficult. Look at Nightveil. SEE THOSE CIRCLES WITH COLORS IN THEM?
Count the circles. The end.
Kindly point out the section of the comprehensive rule that supports your claim. Until WotC makes a change to the comprehensive rules (which they will in the near future just to accommodate new mechanics like tribute and inspired), Beaver is correct. With the latest version of the comprehensive rules that we have at this moment (last updated Nov 1, 2013), hybrid devotion counts twice.
The article last night suggests that WotC does not want hybrid devotion to count twice. It is within their power to change the comprehensive rules so that their desired end result is met.
Magic is a game about precise rules interactions. It is not a game about "what feels right" or what makes "common sense."
Intuitively creatures resurrected with Whip of Erebos are gone for good after the turn. However, due to the ways the comprehensive rules interact, cards like Obzedat, Ghost Council and Aetherling are capable of resurrecting far more permanently despite how unintuitive that feels.
It is stupid to dogpile on beaver for not reading WotC's mind and interpreting their intentions when all he did was accurately describe how the cards would work with the most up-to-date comprehensive rules presently available. -
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GeneralArmchair posted a message on [[BNG]] A Big TidbitPosted in: The Rumor MillQuote from chrisb3Not the same thing.
They are different cards looking at devotion independently and not caring about the other card. Heliod doesn't care that his 3W was counting as 3R for Purphoros.
Iroas may well care that it's 3W/R and count it was 3W/R instead of 3W and 3R since it's looking at both sets of mana symbols at the same time for the same card.
They could write the rule either way so we can't give a definitive answer but common sense says that it will probally not count twice as it'll be very powerful.
But it is the same thing. If the new gods are worded like they are suggested in the OP, then it would be one card looking independently at two devotion counts and adding them together.
So what if some color combinations end up working better with devotion than others due to some hybrid cards. Not all colors get equal performance from all mechanics. Black was completely left in the cold when it came to AVR's miracle mechanic. -
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Hallucigenia posted a message on [[BNG]] A Big TidbitUsing Chroma as a precedent, or just a straightforward reading of the rules, hybrid mana symbols would count as both, and it seems to me that Wizards prefers sticking to a straightforward interaction with the rules, and adjusting the card's power level appropriately, rather than littering an ability with addenda.Posted in: The Rumor Mill
This would explain the 7 devotion total and (people haven't really been mentioning) the lack of activated abilities. They may also be costed less aggressively and have smaller bodies.
The :symrg::symrg: in Burning-Tree Emissary could mean Xenagos will be good in Limited, or it could mean that they'll print him as expensive casual-Extended fodder. -
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Musicman247 posted a message on [[BNG]] A Big TidbitPosted in: The Rumor MillFrom the Comprehensive Rules:
700.5. A player's devotion to [color] is equal to the number of mana symbols of that color among the mana costs of permanents that player controls.
Devotion only cares about symbols. Boros Reckoner has three red symbols and three white symbols. Nightveil Specter has three blue and three black. Why is there any debate about this? -
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thilon posted a message on [[COMM]] [SCD] Toxic DelugePosted in: New Card DiscussionQuote from TzefickBut didn't you hear? Esper got shafted. They got the messy deck that cannot agree on what they should do and then they get the strictly or partially worse copy of card-effects: Opportunity on Grixis, Brilliant Plans on Esper. Baleful Strix on Grixis, Tidehollow Strix on Esper. They only got one of the more interesting commanders but that's about it, otherwise their deck-list seems inferior and messed up.
Shafted? I don't agree. They made all the decks have 3 generals with different strategies and cards to support them. So calling Esper shafted would not make sense if that's what you consider shafted. It's a design that was implemented in all decks on purpose. -
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LouCypher posted a message on [[COMM]] [SCD] Toxic DelugeIn EDH, this is basically a Black Sun's Zenith that requires life instead of mana. It'll help you deal with decks that power out a few big threats early on, especially if they're indestructible.Posted in: New Card Discussion
It ranks, to me, below Damnation in power level, but above the aformentioned Zenith. 2nd best Black Sweeper isn't exactly a bad thing in my book. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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I strongly suspect so, yes. Guillaume shares an etymological origin with Guillermo / William / etc., which means "will protect / defend." Very appropriate for a chef who has the potential to protect your entire board using foodstuffs. Phonologically speaking, it's also very likely a deliberate reference to (or conflation of) several popular French chef's names: Bourdain, Gordon, and Prudhomme all spring immediately to mind.
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He means anything that isn’t Theros, I think.
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It's relevant because one of us has been educated to impart both linguistic knowledge and communication skills to others, and the other is an aerospace engineer whose best argument continues to be a barrage of ad hominems. Suffice it to say, I'm not moved by your critique of my reading skills.
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I'm not sure what you're implying, except perhaps to make a point about political correctness that isn't remotely germane here. Did you read the original comment that was being responded to? If so, then you know there's ample context for what was said.
What better place to have a conversation about the relative strengths and weaknesses of white in EDH than in relation to a new deck that may prove to be a sea change for it?
Having participated in this thread at pretty much every turn, and not talking about anything besides Magic, I feel it's safe to say you probably didn't read most (or any) of it.
Now if for some reason you're as appalled as I am that one person took it as an opportunity to engage in vicious personal attacks instead of talking about Magic, perhaps you shouldn't upvote every one of their posts.
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White will also not see another card as good as PtE or StP, so as far as trajectory goes it's at least on par with every other color in that regard. Apart from that, at least we can finally both agree that black is more efficient.
By what metric are you judging efficiency here? EDH curves out much differently than historic / modern / standard etc, so even 6-7 drops are perfectly viable. Pretty much everything I listed are top black cards on EDHREC, have similar or better effects than what you listed, and maybe cost an average of ~1 mana more in a format that really doesn't care. It sounds like you're making the mistake of thinking what used to be efficient in standard (MV4 sweepers) somehow translates to EDH; it doesn't.
Well, one of us needed to provide an objective measure, and it wasn't you. Do you have evidence to provide that proves me wrong, or are you going to keep engaging in logical fallacies?
It is, yes, and I'm not saying anything that every other respectable MTG news site hasn't already made a case for themselves. I also never said, nor implied, that it was "trash"; if you somehow inferred that from the evidence I provided, then at least we may be approaching the same conclusion.
That would mean more to me if EDH was a format that, as a whole, actually cared about aggro. There are plenty of non-aggro 1 drops across all colors that could be described as efficient, playable, viable, etc. Personally, I think something as simple as Viscera Seer does as much or more for a given deck's game plan than Serra Ascendant, but your mileage may vary.
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Targeted removal. This has been addressed multiple times now.
Strong disagree on that second part, and I think I've already said as much.
Because if you play as much EDH as you claim to then you already know what they are? But I'll humor you: Black Sun's Zenith, Crux of Fate, Damnation, Decree of Pain, In Garruk's Wake, Kindred Dominance, Mutilate, Necromantic Selection, Overwhelming Forces, Toxic Deluge; special mention to Living Death.
Uh, the two links I gave you. I'd still like to hear your source, if you don't mind.
Do you have a better metric for defining "best 1 and 2 drops" apart from their very measurable success rates (or lack thereof)?
Okay. White being the weakest color in EDH, by a very wide margin, is almost universally acknowledged by the entire Magic community.
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You didn’t specify a format so I covered the breadth of what’s most popular, within the context of white’s current trajectory. White has two of the objectively most powerful, single target removal spells ever printed, yet accounts for only 2 of any given 99 cards in one popular format, and as you pointed out, only Path to Exile is legal in modern - neither of those cards are legal in arguably two of the other most popular formats, which you also mentioned. The point wasn’t that white has no removal, only that it’s not the “most efficient” compared to what mono black or black + X has been churning out in recent years. You made a comparative statement that others had already disproven, and I didn’t feel like being redundant here.
Again, as far as comparative statements go: does white have a lot of sweepers? Sure. Are they the “most efficient”? I would argue no, given the push to MV5 in recent years and the diversity of efficient board removal in other colors. Playable (or even prolific) does not equate to “most efficient.”
According to the metrics I’m seeing, standard mono white aggro accounts for ~5% of the current meta. Mono red is closer to 15-20% (near the top) and also sports efficient 1 and 2 drops, as does dimir rogues (7-12%). Mono white ranks 8th according to the top google hit for "standard tier list," though to be fair the two archetypes directly above it also hover in the 5% range. Whether or not that qualifies as top tier is, I suppose, somewhat subjective.
I see a lot of people complaining about white in EDH, and I fully empathize. The casual cards you listed may be fun to certain people, but are still emblematic of the design philosophies holding white back in one of the most popular formats. They are certainly not what I would describe as being above-curve, which is what I strongly feel white needs in terms of win conditions if its card advantage and ramp potential continue to languish.
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You're giving me even more ideas for The Locust God, thanks.
You totally did! Gratz.
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