To briefly answer IronPlushy's question: sacrifice effects are often paid as a cost. Protection from [color] means that the creature cannot be the target of [color] spells or effects, cannot be blocked by [color] creatures, and all damage dealt by [color] sources is prevented. Because sacrificing is a cost, and not a targeted effect, you can sacrifice a creature with protection from [color] to a spell or ability of that color.
There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread, but I feel that it's all a bit overwhelming for one 60 card deck. The way I see it, there are 3 viable W/B archetypes in standard right now: the pseudo-combo deck I linked above; Lepore's beats deck, brought to our attention by goldenj; and Lepore's tokens deck. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, but you really start to dilute the effectiveness when you try mixing in strategies from the other archetypes. Which you choose is really up to personal preference, but my experience with the combo version is that one of its primary enablers, Immortal Servitude, is lackluster at best. It usually just ends up being a dead card in my hand, and if I have enough creatures in my graveyard to make it worthwhile, I'm pretty much getting blown out anyways. Nine times out of ten, if I win it's because my tokens were swinging with impunity, so why not focus more on that aspect of the deck?
While I'm on the topic of tokens, I wanted to give a brief shout out to this modern deck. I've been enamored with it for a while, and I've dedicated myself to assembling it in the next several months - hopefully if/when Thoughtseize gets reprinted. I bring it up for two reasons: one, because it's a prime example of how investing in some cards, like the shock and tap lands, can be a solid future investment, which is a point I generally like to make here on the budget forums; and two, because the Lepore deck I also linked above seeks to emulate it. I just wanted to point out that the same strategy is viable in two different formats right now, which speaks to its effectiveness. Cards like Intangible Virtue and Lingering Souls are obvious all stars, and Profit // Loss is more than adequate when dealing with opposing weenies, even if it isn't as competitively costed as Zealous Persecution.
It's a budget deck, and I rushed the sideboard so that I had something to play with. I didn't feel like the inclusions there would be particularly relevant for the local meta, which I had no experience with anyways, so I just wanted to get a feel for my own deck's strengths and weaknesses. The main cards I ended up subbing in were Duress for an enchantment deck that relied on Assemble the Legion as its only win condition, and War Priest of Thune to foil opposing Oblivion Rings. I ended up going 2-2, with dominating performances over a W/B exalted deck and the aforementioned enchantment deck, and getting my face stomped in by Junk Rites (which I did manage to get a game off of) and a zombie deck. The battle against Junk Rites was a tough lesson, but I learned two things from it: one, you can still win against top tier decks if you manage to outrace them with tokens; and two, Duress does nothing in a matchup against a flashback heavy deck. Unfortunately, I was never able to draw into my Beckon Apparitions against a graveyard that was often full of threats like Thragtusk and Unburial Rites.
I stood only a slight chance against the zombie deck, but opposing Blood Artists really screwed me over. Not only did they negate my own Blood Artists when I should have been in a position to execute my combo, but Gravecrawler and Geralf's Messenger were absolutely devastating when I didn't have one out at all. This is when I realized how much Profit // Loss would have helped here.
The changes may seem subtle at first, but I feel that they really streamlined the deck. For starters, I really wanted to shift my deck away from the combo. I wasn't able to draw into Blood Artist often enough to pull it off last week, leaving me in a position to rely on my flying tokens to do all the heavy lifting. Though I only had three copies of it, I drew into Immortal Servitude far more often than I would have liked, since I never was able to make a play with it that drastically altered by board position. Despite my inclination to replace it with Sorin, Lord of Innistrad as my curve-topper, I wasn't ready to give up on it just yet, so I only took out a single copy. Still, I knew that I was going to have to rely more on my tokens going forward, so Intangible Virtue was an obvious inclusion. With only 6 cards capable of producing tokens, I felt that 2 Intangible Virtues was adequate. I moved two Oblivion Rings to the sideboard to make room for the other enchantments, hoping that some extra offensive power would make up for less removal.
If we accepted that every little thing Wizards has said or done these past few weeks is an indication of what will be in Theros, we'd be at 12+ mechanics/themes by now.
What the hell is with this constant mono-color crap from people? They just printed a multi-color set. They're not going to piss into the wind by releasing a mono color set right after it. Hell, they've even gone as far to tell us there will be new duals in Theros once M14 was completely revealed and had no duals.
Huh? You're acting like a mono colored block would completely negate RtR, which it wouldn't.
Two: The Urza's Saga version of Dark Ritual (like the [url=http://magiccards.info/mr/en/14.html]Dark Ritual[/url]Mirage[/url], [url=http://magiccards.info/5e/en/15.html]Dark Ritual[/url]Fifth Edition[/url], and [url=http://magiccards.info/tp/en/12.html]Dark Ritual[/url]Tempest[/url] versions) have "Mana Source" printed on the type line, with Errata changing the cards to Instants.
I saw, I know, and I was actually directing my comment toward the person I quoted.
Wrong forum for this. Maybe we should consolidate a Theros thread in speculation where people can discuss... everything. "Theros - the enchantments/legends/level up/equipment/planeswalker/wedge color/banding/contraption/Nimbus Maze/Thoughtseize/tribal/dual lands (and screw it, atogs too) matters block."
The Charging Griffins are very good you're right. But I don't know how much I really like Angelic Accord and I still don't like how thin White is under 4 mana.
Terrible as a 4 drop sure. If I'm in Red (and not 3 colors) I'm still playing it though.
It's still hard to cast in 2 colors, trust me. Tried it in DotP, hated it, moved on.
Yes, respond to one part of my post and ignore the rest my well thought-out arguments against running black. Clearly you aren't worth my time so I will not be wasting anymore of it responding to you.
That's fair. I just hope you don't waste your own time playing with a comparable pool come this weekend, because you'd just get wrecked every round while you wait to draw into that dragon.
Black > red with this pool, it's as simple as that. I've already explained why, acknowledging your arguments would only be an exercise in redundancy at this point.
Where did I call Doom Blade laughable? I was referring to the creatures when I said the supporting cast is laughable. Doom Blade (and to a lesser extent Quag Sickness and Corrupt) is the main draw to playing black in this pool.
Blightcaster is fine, but it's a card with a weak body (compared to its cost) and requires you to draw other cards in your deck to be good so it is not a strong incentive to be good. Also one of these 5 enchantments is difficult to cast while another (Dark Favor) is not a particularly strong card. You're really stretching your playable enchantments here just to make Blightcaster a reasonable card to play.
Corpse Hauler is okay but you don't really have much in the way of bombs to recur in a U/B deck, and that's when recursion effects are typically at their best. The best thing you can recur is what, the 3/2 intimidate, the 6 mana 4/6 minotaur, a random 2 power flyer? That's not particularly impressive. You calling recursion "big" in limited makes me question your understanding on what the usefulness of recursion actually is. Rise from the Grave consistently wheeled in M13 draft and Disentomb has always been a late pick in every format its been in. These cards need to be very aggressively costed or have some form of card advantage before they start to become high picks. Corpse Hauler isn't a bad card but he's far from a major incentive to play black.
Yeah, if you think Shivan Dragon is the "only" reason to go red then I have a hard time taking your argument seriously.
It is, quite honestly, the only reason to go red. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing you know anything about limited if you think that red pool is playable without any burn.
You are acting as if every card in red is mediocre at best. Mindsparker is a pretty good creature. Shiv's Embrace compliments the blue plan. The double Wild Guess and Academy Raider will help you find your removal and bombs.
I cant take you seriously when you keep mentioning Dragon Hatchling as a reason to be in red. The red players dont mention it.
I'm not mentioning the hatchling as a reason to play red. I specifically said that the firebreathing is too much of a strain on the mana pool, which is inclusive of Shiv's Embrace and Shivan Dragon. The only thing you're right about is the Mindsparker, which may not even be anything more than a 3/2 body depending on the matchup.
And honestly, what do you think you're going to dig up with Academy Raider and Wild Guess? Cancel? Good luck coming up with answers after your opponent drops his own bombs.
Initial impression: Don't like the White in this pool, too many 4 drops and outside of Archangel (which looks amazing) nothing overly exciting. Green doesn't seem to have much to me either, two or three good creatures, Trollhide and a bunch of sideboard cards.
Uh, what? White gives you a pair of splashable 3/3 fliers on the attack and a bomby enchantment that gives you 4/4 fliers if you can gain enough life - which that white pool is easily prepared to do, especially with Archangel of Thune.
Also, let me give you a heads up: Awaken the Ancient is terrible, and a pain in the @$$ to cast.
The problem with UB is I don't see how you ever win games if your blue flyers plan gets stopped. The red cards at least offer you some solid creatures while Black's supporting cast for the 3/2 intimidate is laughable at best. Yes the Dragon Hatchlings are not very good early when you need to be making plays but Shivan Dragon is still very threatening even if you never dump another mana into him after his initial casting.
Please explain to be what's laughable about Blightcaster + 5 limited playable enchantments, Corpse Hauler (do you know how big recursion is in limited?), and Doom Blade. Throw in a couple of fat minotaurs that beat the snot out of Dragon Hatchling any day of the week, and you're left with only one reason to go red. And unless Shivan Dragon now reads "when Shivan Dragon enters the battlefield, you win the game," you're forcing yourself into a less than mediocre pool for a single, unimpressive bomb. That's not a gamble that I, personally, am willing to take.
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Alright, so I've played the last two FNMs with my own version of the deck discussed here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519037
There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread, but I feel that it's all a bit overwhelming for one 60 card deck. The way I see it, there are 3 viable W/B archetypes in standard right now: the pseudo-combo deck I linked above; Lepore's beats deck, brought to our attention by goldenj; and Lepore's tokens deck. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, but you really start to dilute the effectiveness when you try mixing in strategies from the other archetypes. Which you choose is really up to personal preference, but my experience with the combo version is that one of its primary enablers, Immortal Servitude, is lackluster at best. It usually just ends up being a dead card in my hand, and if I have enough creatures in my graveyard to make it worthwhile, I'm pretty much getting blown out anyways. Nine times out of ten, if I win it's because my tokens were swinging with impunity, so why not focus more on that aspect of the deck?
While I'm on the topic of tokens, I wanted to give a brief shout out to this modern deck. I've been enamored with it for a while, and I've dedicated myself to assembling it in the next several months - hopefully if/when Thoughtseize gets reprinted. I bring it up for two reasons: one, because it's a prime example of how investing in some cards, like the shock and tap lands, can be a solid future investment, which is a point I generally like to make here on the budget forums; and two, because the Lepore deck I also linked above seeks to emulate it. I just wanted to point out that the same strategy is viable in two different formats right now, which speaks to its effectiveness. Cards like Intangible Virtue and Lingering Souls are obvious all stars, and Profit // Loss is more than adequate when dealing with opposing weenies, even if it isn't as competitively costed as Zealous Persecution.
So, here's what I ran last week:
4 Doomed Traveler
2 Gather the Townsfolk
4 Lingering Souls
4 Oblivion Ring
Black
2 Altar's Reap
4 Blood Artist
4 Bloodthrone Vampire
2 Bone Splinters
2 Skirsdag High Priest
3 Tragic Slip
4 Cartel Aristocrat
3 Immortal Servitude
1 Orzhov Charm
Land
3 Godless Shrine
4 Orzhov Guildgate
8 Plains
6 Swamp
2 Beckon Apparition
4 Duress
2 Gather the Townsfolk
4 Tithe Drinker
3 War Priest of Thune
It's a budget deck, and I rushed the sideboard so that I had something to play with. I didn't feel like the inclusions there would be particularly relevant for the local meta, which I had no experience with anyways, so I just wanted to get a feel for my own deck's strengths and weaknesses. The main cards I ended up subbing in were Duress for an enchantment deck that relied on Assemble the Legion as its only win condition, and War Priest of Thune to foil opposing Oblivion Rings. I ended up going 2-2, with dominating performances over a W/B exalted deck and the aforementioned enchantment deck, and getting my face stomped in by Junk Rites (which I did manage to get a game off of) and a zombie deck. The battle against Junk Rites was a tough lesson, but I learned two things from it: one, you can still win against top tier decks if you manage to outrace them with tokens; and two, Duress does nothing in a matchup against a flashback heavy deck. Unfortunately, I was never able to draw into my Beckon Apparitions against a graveyard that was often full of threats like Thragtusk and Unburial Rites.
I stood only a slight chance against the zombie deck, but opposing Blood Artists really screwed me over. Not only did they negate my own Blood Artists when I should have been in a position to execute my combo, but Gravecrawler and Geralf's Messenger were absolutely devastating when I didn't have one out at all. This is when I realized how much Profit // Loss would have helped here.
Enter last night's deck:
4 Doomed Traveler
2 Gather the Townsfolk
2 Intangible Virtue
4 Lingering Souls
2 Oblivion Ring
Black
3 Altar's Reap
4 Blood Artist
4 Bloodthrone Vampire
2 Skirsdag High Priest
4 Tragic Slip
4 Cartel Aristocrat
2 Immortal Servitude
2 Profit // Loss
Land
3 Godless Shrine
4 Orzhov Guildgate
8 Plains
6 Swamp
3 Appetite for Brains
2 Beckon Apparition
2 Intangible Virtue
2 Profit // Loss
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Skirsdag High Priest
3 War Priest of Thune
The changes may seem subtle at first, but I feel that they really streamlined the deck. For starters, I really wanted to shift my deck away from the combo. I wasn't able to draw into Blood Artist often enough to pull it off last week, leaving me in a position to rely on my flying tokens to do all the heavy lifting. Though I only had three copies of it, I drew into Immortal Servitude far more often than I would have liked, since I never was able to make a play with it that drastically altered by board position. Despite my inclination to replace it with Sorin, Lord of Innistrad as my curve-topper, I wasn't ready to give up on it just yet, so I only took out a single copy. Still, I knew that I was going to have to rely more on my tokens going forward, so Intangible Virtue was an obvious inclusion. With only 6 cards capable of producing tokens, I felt that 2 Intangible Virtues was adequate. I moved two Oblivion Rings to the sideboard to make room for the other enchantments, hoping that some extra offensive power would make up for less removal.
*taking a break, more to follow later*
Huh? You're acting like a mono colored block would completely negate RtR, which it wouldn't.
I saw, I know, and I was actually directing my comment toward the person I quoted.
It does say "instant" on the page you linked, or were you trying to make some other point?
Sig it or it didn't happen.
If you say it a few more times it'll become true!
It's still hard to cast in 2 colors, trust me. Tried it in DotP, hated it, moved on.
That's fair. I just hope you don't waste your own time playing with a comparable pool come this weekend, because you'd just get wrecked every round while you wait to draw into that dragon.
Black > red with this pool, it's as simple as that. I've already explained why, acknowledging your arguments would only be an exercise in redundancy at this point.
It is, quite honestly, the only reason to go red. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing you know anything about limited if you think that red pool is playable without any burn.
I'm not mentioning the hatchling as a reason to play red. I specifically said that the firebreathing is too much of a strain on the mana pool, which is inclusive of Shiv's Embrace and Shivan Dragon. The only thing you're right about is the Mindsparker, which may not even be anything more than a 3/2 body depending on the matchup.
And honestly, what do you think you're going to dig up with Academy Raider and Wild Guess? Cancel? Good luck coming up with answers after your opponent drops his own bombs.
Uh, what? White gives you a pair of splashable 3/3 fliers on the attack and a bomby enchantment that gives you 4/4 fliers if you can gain enough life - which that white pool is easily prepared to do, especially with Archangel of Thune.
Also, let me give you a heads up: Awaken the Ancient is terrible, and a pain in the @$$ to cast.
Please explain to be what's laughable about Blightcaster + 5 limited playable enchantments, Corpse Hauler (do you know how big recursion is in limited?), and Doom Blade. Throw in a couple of fat minotaurs that beat the snot out of Dragon Hatchling any day of the week, and you're left with only one reason to go red. And unless Shivan Dragon now reads "when Shivan Dragon enters the battlefield, you win the game," you're forcing yourself into a less than mediocre pool for a single, unimpressive bomb. That's not a gamble that I, personally, am willing to take.